gut feeling vs fear

[onward]

So, I woke up this morning with the heaviest, darkest feeling. It is similar to what I often felt when I was living with my uBPDw.  I spent much of yesterday with her.   I moved out 5 weeks ago, and we've had limited contact up to about last weekend.   We went to a marriage counselor yesterday and discussed where we are in our relationship. The counselor isn't aware of the BPD issue, though I think I've explained certain behaviors that he has picked up on. She has been very open and willing in therapy though.  I've been moving slowly back into seeing if this will work.  My wife has been really patient since I moved out.  I wondered if she would've reacted negatively and split me, but she has been very understanding and says she's willing to do whatever to make things work.  It almost feels like the idealization stage.  This is the longest since we were married 2 years ago that she has been without emotional outbursts.  I spent most of the day with her yesterday and it got more complicated when we had sex.  We had a talk about what that meant and both agreed that it was a need we both had for closeness.  She now though thinks we should be moving forward quicker.  She wanted me to stay the night last night and tonight, but I begged off for space.  Now, with this sick feeling from this morning, I'm wondering what to do.  Is this my gut and instinct telling me to stay away or is it just fear of going back and not being able to forgive and believe there might be a change?  Has anyone else dealt with this dilemma of gut feeling vs. fear?

[LetItBe]

I ask myself this question often and was just having a conversation about it yesterday.  I remember when I was feeling drawn again to my BPDxbf a few months ago, I awoke in the middle of the night (or too early in the a.m.) a few times, thinking of the reasons I shouldn't get back together with him.  I'd get up and write these things down, or I'd reach over to my phone and record them in a text message to myself.  I asked myself, "Is this just fear, or is this intuition/my gut?"  Looking back today, after about 2 months of a recycle, I can say it was 100% my gut.  I guess I still had some things to learn (like yes, his BPD is very real, and his epiphanies and self-awareness didn't make it go away  ) and some closure to get.  

One of my lessons is that my fear was there for a reason.  It was there to protect me.  I will listen to it now.  

So, she's wanting to speed things up.  I can understand that feeling after sex of wanting to remain close.  I do that.  Most women do become more emotionally attached after sex.  Oxytocin (the bonding hormone) kicks in and makes us feel more bonded to our partner.  Because of this, having sex can cloud judgment.  I personally choose to hold off on sex for awhile so that I can make wise relationship decisions.  

I gather her desire to speed things up didn't sit well with you?  If you want to take it slow, maybe sex should wait for now.  

Listen to that voice inside of you always.  If she loves you, she won't push you into doing anything; she'll support you living your truth.  Good luck whatever you decide to do.

[hithere]

You are describing exactly what happened after I moved out my first time after living together for about 2.5 years, I moved out and she was very calm and wanted us to date.  We were going to therapy together and she was saying how she was going to fight for us, prove she changed and do whatever it took.

Long-story-short, I came back after 6-months and after a few weeks things got bad again, then everything went steadily downhill... .   I wasted another 15 months with her.

I hope this is not the case but if she has BPD and does not aggressively try and fix it then your chances for any positive changes are pretty much nil in my opinion.

good luck

[LetItBe]

You are describing exactly what happened after I moved out my first time after living together for about 2.5 years, I moved out and she was very calm and wanted us to date.  We were going to therapy together and she was saying how she was going to fight for us, prove she chaned and do whatever it took.

Long-story-short, I came back after 6-months and after a few weeks things got bad again, then everything went steadily downhill... .   I wasted another 15 months with her.

I hope this is not the case but if she has BPD and does not aggressively try and fix it then your chances for any positive changes are pretty much nil in my opinion.

good luck

Hithere, I totally understand.  It's so sad to try so hard and not have it work out the way you both were hoping.

Yes, when we're separated from them, their trigger (us) is removed, they don't feel engulfed, so their behavior changes.  They crave the closeness then.

I went back after 6 1/2 months.  It was really good for about a month, then steadily downhill again.   He's been working on himself, too, and like I mentioned, he has amazing self-awareness (at times).  He really, really tries!  He's been in regular therapy for TEN years (down to only once every 3 weeks right now, though).  It's my understanding that the treatment does have to be aggressive -- maybe his isn't aggressive enough.  I do feel like DBT could help him, but that's up to him.  I'm no longer trying to rescue him, be his therapist, or be his mother.  Thus, the r/s has crumbled.   It seems like the beautiful man that I so joyfully reunited with has been overtaken by his survival mechanisms.  He won't allow himself to stay close to me or to consider my needs.  It's all about him (once again).  I feel like I just can't win against BPD.

If you decide to reunite, I truly hope it goes well for you.  I understand wanting to try.  I support you either way.  The "Staying" board has great tools and resources that can help you communicate with her and take care of yourself.  

[blecker]

How can therapy work if a major issue regarding the dysfunction of the relationship is not discussed?

Thats like calling the doctor about your just broken leg and explaining to him/her that you have a headache.

Nothing can ever can ever get resolved without honesty.

[benny2]

I am truely convinced that they base all their relationships on need. What they can get from the other person. I also have backed off from being his rescuser and have noticed things are declining much faster. He has no need for me. It gets old afer awhile, giving 100% and receiving nothing in return.

[LetItBe]

I am truely convinced that they base all their relationships on need. What they can get from the other person. I also have backed off from being his rescuser and have noticed things are declining much faster. He has no need for me. It gets old afer awhile, giving 100% and receiving nothing in return.

I can see very clearly now that for him, our r/s was all about his needs.  I even have his latest, LONG, self-centered email to remind me of that if I ever forget.  "Me, me, me... .   " Our r/s was all about him and his growth, and that is in writing.  He's so blinded by his own brilliance (or "white"-ness) that he can't see me at all right now.

Now that I've stopped playing rescuer, our r/s has crumbled, and he's not equipped to do anything about it.

Back to the original topic -- have you figured out if it was fear or your gut talking to you, onward?

[Overcamethatwow]

Hey, just watch out for the clinger stage to repeat itself, its addicting for the one who is normal in a R/S. Trust me i know. Good luck

[onward]

I've been out of town for the last few days and that has given me some space.  However, she did call me one morning all blaming how I'd told one of my friends we were separated.  Apparently, she feels that nobody should know we're apart - I think cause she's afraid it makes us not look like the perfect family she likes to portray.  Anyway, she was her usual self - blaming and trying to make me feel guilty for leaving etc.  Then, later that afternoon she texted me saying she was sorry for the outburst and was just insecure knowing I was going to come back - right?  She went alone to the T and it sounded like he was validating her, but I don't know what to believe.  All this emotion is exhausting.

[hithere]

knowing I was going to come back - right? 

When I was telling her i was leaving and then after I left she kept saying we were going to get married that year... .   they simply believe whatever works for them at the moment, it has nothing to do with actual reality and is usually motivated by selfish reasons.

She went alone to the T and it sounded like he was validating her, but I don't know what to believe.  All this emotion is exhausting.

Even when I went to couples therapy the therapist would often validate her, if he didn't she would never stay in therapy.  She also twisted his words many times so that to her it sounded like validation, I am sure that is what is going on here.