What decisions have to be jointly made?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi.  I'm just a few months into the divorce process.  My husband wants an agreement saying we have to jointly agree on pretty much everything.  Vacations, school, etc. for the kids.  I understand agreeing on doctor visits and where they go to school.  But why can't I take them on vacation during my custody time?  Also, what if my husband just decides to be disagreeable and rejects all the public schools?  Woul d we have to go to court?  What if he decides they should leave public school?

[momtara]

Hi.  I'm just a few months into the divorce process.  My husband wants an agreement saying we have to jointly agree on pretty much everything.  Vacations, school, etc. for the kids.  I understand agreeing on doctor visits and where they go to school.  But why can't I take them on vacation during my custody time?  Also, what if my husband just decides to be disagreeable and rejects all the public schools?  Woul d we have to go to court?  What if he decides they should leave public school?

[marbleloser]

Is he writing a parenting plan? Do you have any temp orders from the court yet?

He can't stop you from doing anything on your custody time.If there's no temp order in place,you both share joint legal custody.That means you both have equal say as to school,medical,religion,etc.,,

It's good to have a parenting plan in place outside of court.Just don't sign anything requiring you to have to give him notice for every little detail of your time with the kids.

You won't have to go to court over disagreements unless this plan is documented in court,to be used while the divorce is ongoing.If the plan IS documented in court and signed by the judge,then disagreements would need to be handled in mediation perhaps.You might want to have that added to the agreement.

Something like " In case there is disagreement to this plan by either party,the two parties will seek resolution in mediation".

[ForeverDad]

School - That is why nearly all divorces end with one parent designated the Residential Parent or the Residential Parent for School Purposes.  That RP's school in that school district is the one the child attends.  Private school is more difficult to deal with because then the issue arises whether the non-RP will pay for his or her portion of the higher tuition costs.  Also, some private schools may require a contract with only one parent and may not be inclined to include the other parent as extensively as a public school might.

Vacations or extended time including stay-cations - I believe all courts default to vacation notices not vacation requests.  Repeat:  Send a vacation notice, not a request.  (Well, it might be a request if you want the other's holiday time.  Holiday time trumps everything else.)  As long at a properly written notice is sent by the required advance dates by an approved method (usually mail or hand delivered but might include email these days) and the other parent hasn't sent notice of conflicting dates and if it's not the other parent's holiday time, then there's nothing else required.  A vacation notice is not a request, it's a notice, you're safe as long as you follow the rules.

Here is the order of precedence or priority.  However, I'm not sure where/how extended family emergencies fit in.  A wedding usually has advance planning and if on the other's weekend could be traded.  Funerals and other events could be unexpected.  Might be good to include a clause how to handle events that would require a trade of a time segment out out your scheduling control.

• (1) Holidays



• (2) then Vacations



• (3) then Regular parenting schedule

Speaking about trades, the agreement should always be documented in writing or by email.  And it is usually best to get your half of the traded time first.  Why?  If you give up your time first, the obstructive parent may find some pretext to not fulfill the other half of the trade.  (Yes, that happened to me too.)

Probably it will be simpler to follow your county's standard holiday list.  Just make sure you strike out the holidays that don't apply.  (My ex blocked my winter break vacation because she claimed Kwanzaa but later stated in court she could observe it even though she wasn't Jewish.  Yes, that's right, she knew so little about her demanded "holiday" that she got two totally different holidays mixed up.)

When I had Shared Parenting, we agreed on 30 days written notice (which my ex promptly ignored).  When I got custody it reverted to the county's default 2/15 for spring break, May 15 for summer break and and Nov 1 for winter break.

Courts see vacations as notices, not requests - unless you give in and weaken that standard policy.

One last suggestion, the typical orders used by domestic or family courts are time-tested.  Don't re-invent the wheel.  Yes, some adjustments to the standard order must be made to fit your circumstances, but most modifications should be to deal with the risks of dealing with the other parent who will be uncooperative and sabotaging over and over in the years to come.  Vague terms such as "reasonable telephone contact" and "mutually agreed exchange locations" work with parents who can reasonably co-parent but they're huge problems when dealing with obstructive ex-spouses.

[Matt]

Where I live, the decisions usually made jointly are:

School - but when I signed the kids up for a charter school, and they got in, I informed my ex, but I didn't ask her permission.  She could have fought me on the issue, but it would have been pointless - the charter school is way better than the other public schools where we live.  So she just accepted it and the kids benefited.

Religion - but we each take them to whatever church we choose (or no church) and that works fine.

Major medical - but we each take them to the doctor or dentist when they need to go, and that works fine.

Relocation - the big battle we had.  I think my ex's decision to fight over it was foolish and destructive, but at least it was a big enough issue to be worth fighting over - the only real battle we've had in 5 years.

Your lawyer may have a worksheet or guidelines used by the court where you live - along the lines of what FD is saying.

I think your position could be, "There is a lot of conflict between the parents right now, and I'm hoping that will be less over time.  So it will be best for most decisions to be made individually by each parent when the kids are at that home.  Only the biggest decisions should be made jointly, so we can interact less, and the conflict will be less."  If you can explain that very clearly, without finger-pointing, you'll look fair and sensible.

[momtara]

Hmmm, Matt, that is helpful.

[Matt]

Another option is to ask that the court appoint a mediator or "parenting coach" to help resolve issues.

[momtara]

Oh, thanks to Forever Dad, too.  All great advice I can use!  I'm just at the beginning of the process.  On one hand, I don't want it to be expensive.  On the other, maybe it'd be best if experts get involved.

[Matt]

Our "parenting coach" was a Ph.D. psychologist, and he was great, but expensive - about $120 an hour if I remember right, and that was with a discount.  (You can sometimes get a lower rate by asking for a "sliding scale", which means "I can't afford your regular rate".)

And of course attorneys are expensive too.  Mine let me do lots of the simple stuff, like putting together $ information, and making copies, so it took her fewer hours and cost me less.

[momtara]

well, yes, the attys are a  lot... .   did you hire your parenting coach, or the court appointed one?

[Matt]

Both - we agreed to take the recommendation of our Custody Evaluator - another Ph.D. psychologist who did the custody evaluation ($5,000).  The court appointed the guy the CE recommended, and we split the cost.

Usually that's how it works - the court appoints someone but the parents have to pay.

[livednlearned]

momtara,

Are you in a state that uses Parenting Coordinators? That's what I ended up with, which is a bit different than a parenting coach, I think. If so, I have a lot to say on the subject 

You'll also want to find out if your state carves out decision-making as something separate from joint legal custody, which is how it works in my state.

For example, I have primary physical custody. In mediation, when we were hashing out our temporary custody order (which became permanent), I agreed to joint legal custody, which allows N/BPDx access to medical/education records, but I did not agree to joint decision-making. That part has been in dispute for 2.5 years. 

So our Ls suggested a Parenting Coordinator (PC), who has an extension of judicial duties. Because that plan didn't work out so hot, I am now in a much better position to get sole legal custody, which includes decision-making. I just filed a motion for that.

The courts don't tend to like creating "winners" and "losers" -- that's why they carve up custody. But it's different in each state. Ask your L how decision-making is treated where you live. If you want sole decision-making and it's possible to get that in your state, I recommend holding out for it and not agreeing to it in a parenting plan. Because what many of us have learned is that even if you say yes, you and your ex plan to agree on decisions together, it doesn't tend to work that way. It's BPD! Better to ask for what you want, which is sole decision-making, and follow a plan to get it.

And this is important -- if you use a parenting coach or mediator or some third party to help you resolve disputes, put something in writing to protect you financially from a disordered spouse who may use the service to badger you with ridiculous requests and unrelated junk. In my PC order, I pay 25% and N/BPDx pays 75% when there is communication with the PC, which is based on our income differential. But he sends weird, weird stuff to the PC, and I filed a motion asking that the PC charge him for emails that are not relevant to S11.