When winning doesn't feel like winning -feedback please

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I've put my story here before, but really could use some input. My exBPD gf who is an alcoholic took me to court for visitation (we are lesbian) of my children. This was a total shock to me, because we were still in a relationship when she did this, even though we haven't lived together for years, due to her drinking. Originally, when we were talking about it, I had said that if she lost, i would work something out to still see the kids. She was adamant that she would be done if she lost because she didn't want me to control her thru them. We went to court yesterday and her request was dismissed. My lawyer did a great job and he did not attack her at all, just presented the law.

Now, I have gotten a slew of text messages asking to see the kids "to say goodbye, for closure" this weekend. I DO NOT want to put my kids through that. I had tried to talk to her this past weekend, and basically discovered that she is happy with her life as it is (without me in it) but misses the kids. I have always felt used for my children, as bizarre as that sounds. When we first met, she became very attached to my daughter, who was 11 months old. I do understand that she loves them. I know they miss her. I feel totally screwed in this. Not only do I have to pay the lawyer for yesterdays court, but now another huge sum to change my youngest birth certificate. (I put her name on it thinking she wanted to be together as a family. She left as soon as she found out it was a done deal) As much as i don't WANT to believe it... .   it seems very calculated. She became friends with her old drug buddy she had been away from for 10 years last march, but hid it from me until after my son was born and her name was on there. (she knew I'd freak) Then she stopped coming around except 2 days a week, mostly to see the kids and have sex. She arranged to have a family photo done with her family, my mother and us at Xmas. The day of the photo she called me a liar in from of my kids. I got upset and stayed home, while she took the kids for the picture. She brought that photo to court yesterday. She admitted that she had the family court paperwork for over a year, well before my son was born. She went and filed it while my mom was in the hospital, and didn't review it until a week later.

Anyway, now she has lost. I vacillitate from feeling she is getting everything she deserves, there is a huge part of me that is hurt because I feel like she could care less about the pain this has caused for me, instead of apologies and wanting to make it right... .   she is posting craop on facebook usig works like "evil, stealing my kids" etc. \

What should I do? I had thought with the right apology, her having a casual relationship with them might work, but knowing how hurt I am and the fact she believes she has done nothing wrong makes that seem wrong. I also don't feel like giving her what she wants... .   as selfish as that is. She has basically used me for 4+ years, she (obviously) didn't think this through before she acted. Now she has lost and still wants.

I know whatever I decide has to be final, at least if I let her see them. I can't bounce them back and forth like that. I also have no idea if she even wants an ongoing relationship with them. I am assuming she does.

[PattyG]

I've put my story here before, but really could use some input. My exBPD gf who is an alcoholic took me to court for visitation (we are lesbian) of my children. This was a total shock to me, because we were still in a relationship when she did this, even though we haven't lived together for years, due to her drinking. Originally, when we were talking about it, I had said that if she lost, i would work something out to still see the kids. She was adamant that she would be done if she lost because she didn't want me to control her thru them. We went to court yesterday and her request was dismissed. My lawyer did a great job and he did not attack her at all, just presented the law.

Now, I have gotten a slew of text messages asking to see the kids "to say goodbye, for closure" this weekend. I DO NOT want to put my kids through that. I had tried to talk to her this past weekend, and basically discovered that she is happy with her life as it is (without me in it) but misses the kids. I have always felt used for my children, as bizarre as that sounds. When we first met, she became very attached to my daughter, who was 11 months old. I do understand that she loves them. I know they miss her. I feel totally screwed in this. Not only do I have to pay the lawyer for yesterdays court, but now another huge sum to change my youngest birth certificate. (I put her name on it thinking she wanted to be together as a family. She left as soon as she found out it was a done deal) As much as i don't WANT to believe it... .   it seems very calculated. She became friends with her old drug buddy she had been away from for 10 years last march, but hid it from me until after my son was born and her name was on there. (she knew I'd freak) Then she stopped coming around except 2 days a week, mostly to see the kids and have sex. She arranged to have a family photo done with her family, my mother and us at Xmas. The day of the photo she called me a liar in from of my kids. I got upset and stayed home, while she took the kids for the picture. She brought that photo to court yesterday. She admitted that she had the family court paperwork for over a year, well before my son was born. She went and filed it while my mom was in the hospital, and didn't review it until a week later.

Anyway, now she has lost. I vacillitate from feeling she is getting everything she deserves, there is a huge part of me that is hurt because I feel like she could care less about the pain this has caused for me, instead of apologies and wanting to make it right... .   she is posting craop on facebook usig works like "evil, stealing my kids" etc. \

What should I do? I had thought with the right apology, her having a casual relationship with them might work, but knowing how hurt I am and the fact she believes she has done nothing wrong makes that seem wrong. I also don't feel like giving her what she wants... .   as selfish as that is. She has basically used me for 4+ years, she (obviously) didn't think this through before she acted. Now she has lost and still wants.

I know whatever I decide has to be final, at least if I let her see them. I can't bounce them back and forth like that. I also have no idea if she even wants an ongoing relationship with them. I am assuming she does.

[ForeverDad]

Your head knows, but your heart feels.  Right now there's a tug of war within you and she knows it.

Let your head win this time.  You can't risk further complications.  Somehow, some way, she would make it a big deal, making it look like it was you who did it to her and victimized her, stretch it out to multiple visits or events, etc.

Listen to your head this time.  As we say here, give yourself time and your heart will catch up.

You may not have to avoid her completely forevermore, maybe in the future if you cross paths it might be okay, but right now I feel she'd be playing a Blame Game, making it your fault and guilting you and with the kids as young as they are they won't realize what she's really doing.

As you wrote, she's causing you financial pain.  Why wouldn't she be willing to cause you (and the children) emotional pain as well?

I'd recommend you never move back to that state or else they may enforce some sort of post-marital contact.  The laws are changing dramatically in many states, don't get caught off guard or unprepared.

[Deb]

I though about this for a bit. What I see is that she will probably try and tell your kids that you did this to her and guilt them. This will be harder for them, then if they don't see her. In an age approproate way, when they ask about her, tell them she is ill. She is. Alcoholism and BPD are sicknesses.

She had a chance to do things right by you and your kids, and she chose not to do that. Also, the things she said on FB? About you stealing HER kids? That is projection. She was trying to steal yours. Your kids do not need to be around that kind of crazy. If you have any doubts, read the unchosen section and see what it was like to grow up with a borderline parent or sibling.

One other thing I would suggest. Go to her FB page and block her. You won't see her comments and she won't see yours. It will be easier for you.

You are doing the right thing. Right now you hurt. A lot. But things will get better.

[marbleloser]

You did the right thing PattyG.By her posting "evil, stealing my kids" etc. on FB,it's very telling that you did.A healthy person would not only NOT do that,but would be mourning.She's seeking negative advocates by posting those things.Block her for your own peace of mind.

Also,we tend to feel "guilty" for standing up for ourselves and being assertive.It's part of us.That's one reason you don't feel like a winner.At this time,follow your brain and not your heart.The real winners are your kids who won't have to grow up around that environment.

[PattyG]

Thank you all. FD, I think u may be confusing me with someone else... .   I haven't moved. We both live in the same town... .   NYS. I agree that the laws may change and I worry that it will put me out there again... .   that is why I am adamant about changing the birth certificate. Her big issue is she wants closure. Really? When you went behind my back and filed you should have thought about that. She blocked me on Facebook months ago. I have a different login to see her page. I know I am probably going to have to block her number if it continues. The personal attacks are horrible. I don't understand why I am not angry over the things she says.

[ForeverDad]

Sorry for any confusion about moving in my prior post.  You're right, it was another member's thread, this post from there was in the back of my mind apparently.

What State were you legally joined in? The reason i ask, in NYS the only time the court over-ruled parental rights was when the couple was married in Vt a month before the child was born. In Vt all children born after a married are both parties kids, thus they upheld Vt law.

I'm glad that at least your legal aspects were simple and resolved.  If ever in doubt about what to do, feel guilted or emotionally pressured, this legal decision should always be one of the factors to look back upon and consider.

[GaGrl]

Keep in mind that her asking for "closure" is still a "ME, ME, ME!" cry.  It has nothing to do with what's best for the children.  I would think it would just be confusing for the children, and there's no telling how dramatic and inappropriate her behavior would be at that last meeting.

[PattyG]

Well, I got sucked back in this weekend. It started with her asking to meet "just me' Friday night, for sex. I went. It was wonderful. Then Sat, I let her come to playplace with me and the kids for a couple hours. The morning before that I was upset and crying. I felt abandoned all over again. We went to Mcdonald's, the kids had a great time, and then i went home. She said if i wanted to to come over, just call, she'd be there in a heartbeat. I did text a few hours later (twice) no answer. Got a text at 1230a that she had fallen asleep and just woke up.

Sunday, i got up and went to church, the 830a service. She usually goes to the 10. She sent me a text saying she was coming to the 830a one, showed up with her buddy, they sat in the back and she left before I got out there. She then went to lunch with him. That afternoon she met us at the playground for a few hours, we went to the grocery store and she came over. I asked her to stay for dinner, she refused. Her reason being she didn't want my best friend who lives across the street (they hate each other) to give me grief. She offered to come back at bedtime to sleep there, I said no. My 5 yo was crying hysterically, i was crying (again).

My best friend feels that this is her way of manipulating the situation. She now knows that the ONLY way she can have my kids is either getting me to let her adopt them or marrying me. She went out and bought a $17,000 truck since we've been apart. She was financially strapped before. My ex keeps saying, if I can not make changes and put boundaries on my best friend, I need to let her go. I spent the weekend crying, MY abandonment issues getting triggered constantly.

She is trying to be nice to me,  understanding... .   yet is is strange because she NEVER was like this. I told her I was going to break off contact for a few weeks, to think. She was unhappy, said I was playing games.

[ForeverDad]

It is extraordinarily difficult to continue contact after a close relationship has ended.  We did warn about that, that it would be best to cut it off and move on.  You've seen what happened, in fact, she turned the tables on you and blamed you for "playing games" by blurring the new boundaries.

It hurts, but sometimes things just have to be experienced in order for the impact to be learned. :'(

[livednlearned]

The part of my heart that was loving toward my ex is stone cold -- I say that because I know you are raw right now as the relationship ends, so please forgive me for not being as sensitive to those raw feelings. I think what our exes do to us, they do to our kids, even if the *abuse* is harder to see. It's difficult for you, a grown-up, to manage her antics. For kids, they have no coping skills. Protect them.

Minimize contact, even if it hurts at first.

My son typically sees his N/BPD father for 4 hours Saturday and 4 hours Sunday. On Saturday, to accommodate a schedule change, S11 saw his dad for 8 hours. The longest he's seen him since August of 2012 when N/BPD had some kind of psychotic/manic episode, which triggered EOW +1 down to basically nothing.

After spending 8 hours with his dad (which included a trip to get ice cream, playing catch, buying a fun gadget at home depot, etc.) S11 was a basket of messed up emotions that lasted through until midnight last night. His old anxious tics were back and when he couldn't fall asleep even though he was exhausted, he started pulling out his hair and banging his head, crying because he could not stop his throat from making a noise that "only happened when he was at dad's". In church yesterday morning, he started crying because he couldn't stop his toes from curling (?) and he had a fit of rage while sitting quietly next to me because he was "frustrated" but didn't know why.

It used to be like this every time he came home from his dad's, so I forgot how intense it can be.

Maybe it's different for your kids, but honestly? I doubt it. Give them something stable. They get one shot at childhood and the last thing any of them needs is a trip to crazy town just because the sex is good, or whatever.

[PattyG]

Thank you both. I have a hard time focusing on my needs. What I think has my attention is her plea that I need to let her go if I can't change. Face it... .   I am 48yo and we have been together for 4 1/2 yrs. If I was going to change it would've happened by now. That and I am reminded how unhappy she was, how lonely I was in this relationship. This love is more like an addiction and now that this has happened, I have zero trust in her motives. Lived- thank you for sharing about your son. I too worry about unsupervised visits. I do believe she loves them... .   but I think the pain for both of us in having contact is too great. She wants more than I am willing to agree to... .   she wants to be their parent. I am not willing to do that. I am taking her name off my son's birth certificate... .   she is very upset about that and has asked me not to.

[livednlearned]

Let her go. Move on and do the healing and don't look back. Pour your heart into therapy, or one of the boards here to help you with the leaving process.

You have good instincts and you know what's right, and the part of your heart that is hanging onto her will heal with distance and time. Not that it won't hurt, but it sure helps you see the abuse more clearly and recognize how close to the cliff you really were.



LnL

[Deb]

She wants YOU to change, but she won't change. Nope. It won't work because if you did change, she would still want something different. I know you are hurting. But you need to love yourself enough to realize that you deserve better. You deserve to have someone love you for who you ARE, not who they think you should be. The more distance you put between you and her, the better you will feel.

[Matt]

I think the key is to decide what is best for the kids, and then do that.  It's hard to set aside the conflict between the adults and just focus on what's right for the kids, but if you can do that, and then follow through consistently, that will be best.