Update - offering to pay for apartment to get DD to move out

[qcarolr]

Can't take the anger from DD anymore. Effecting gd7 too much. Gd shared in therapy today about her feelings and thoughts related to the police removing bfM and how he cursed us as he left. She stated to T that "my mom says there are no rules". This makes it hard and confusing for gd about the rules we ask her to follow. I am so grateful for the skill of this child T.

DD has to move out. dh and I are unwilling to set her out homeless without one more try to offer her options. We are working on plan to get her an apartment and pay for a 6 month lease. She will be expected to partipate in programs to help her become more independent during this time. If she fails, she will be homeless. We are repurposing her room in our home after she moves.

There is an apartment available next week in our town. She could walk to the bus, the store, and to our home to take care of her dogs and visit gd7. We would be selling our travel trailer to loan her the $5000 to make this happen. This is something we have discussed over the past couple months -- it is so hard to do knowing all the people that will be benefitting from this investment. We have to accept this. And accept the real possibility that this is a gift to DD, never to be repaid. The terms of the note will be very reasonable and based on her getting a job or SSI.

DD claims she wants to work on her GED and get a part time job. She cannot do either of these without intensive support. She has an appointment next week with an outreach program, in a seperate location, of the mental heaalth center. We will expect her to make a 6 month commitment to participating in this program. It has a good reputation -- I have heard success stories.

I also know DD has to make this choice. I have to accept that the outcome is hers, the investment is ours.

The first step is getting past the background check for DD. We have to try to negotiated a prepay of rent instead of co-signing the lease. Hoping the assault/domestic violence charge from Nov 2009 is far enough away to not impact this decision by the landlords.

Keep us in your prayers. This may be an answer -- if we can stand the risks.

qcr  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[griz]

qcarolr:  It sounds like the best thing for you to do is to have DD out of the house for your sake and also your dh and gd.  It must be very hard knowing that you will sell your travel trailer to help DD but I think it is so important that you realize that this is a debt that may never be paid back monetarily.  That being said you may be paid back in other ways.  Some peace for you, helping your gd and a chance to breathe.

I also know DD has to make this choice. I have to accept that the outcome is hers, the investment is ours.


This is such a powerful statement and you are so right.  We can only help them so much and in the end it is there decision to participate in their recovery.  I hope all goes well and you are able to get the apartment for her.

Griz

[lbjnltx]

Hi qcarolr  

 

This is just an idea... .  and you probably have already thought about it and found that it is not really an option due to the issues w/public transportation and availability... .  here goes anyway... .  

Could dd26 use the travel trailer as her home in a place w/hook ups?  Is there one in your town or some other nearby community where she could have access to public transportation? 

How will getting an apartment or moving out of your home affect the provision of her probation?  Is she required to live with you or has this expired/optional?

[swampped]

Dear qcarolr:  Once again, you struggle with figuring out the best of a number of difficult options for you family.  I can only say from my experience with ds and uBPD dil that there is no such thing as a "loan"---it is all a gift, paperwork notwithstanding.  But if the gift is what you need to do for the sake of your family and your sanity, so be it.  And I'd think carefully about the timing in any case---would a six month deadline make her homeless in the winter again, as opposed to the warmer weather?  Maybe a three-month timeline, with some cash held in reserve for next winter?  I know how you struggle with having her out on the street in the cold weather.  My dh and I are the king and queen of enabling, if financial support is that---but we have decided that knowing our gd4 is sheltered and fed (our ds supports himself, but is unable to pay much for gd's support---is worth the money.  On the other hand, you have enjoyed getting away in that camper so much---can you see your way clear to still getting away some without it?  Much to think about here---you certainly are in my prayers.        Swampped

[qcarolr]

You all make good points - we have pondered all of them.

There are no long-term campgrounds in our county anymore. Even the cheaper mobile home parks are being bulldozed for condos or upgraded with HOA rules that drive the poor and elderly out. Feels like all about the owners/investors return on investment in dollars. Letting her live in the trailer was our first choice.

We looked at long-term motel/furnished no lease aprtments - $1500 per month. OUCH!

Anything we do to help DD financially has to be a loan to preserve her benefits - SSI application, medicaid, food stamps, county disabled stipend. I have sent an email to her lawyer for SSI to get input on how to draft our rental agreement with her. Technicaly we are loaning her $100 per month rent to live in our home. If she gets her SSI that is in the hands of the district court judge there will be a large lump sum payment - 25% to lawyer, repay the county stipend $175/mo since Mar 2009, what is left can pay us back for the rents accrued to us. She did sign an agreement about the $100/mo back in 2009. We understand this is the only realistic way we will get any of this money back.  The time to decision at federal court level is 9 to 24 for the judge to give his decision. He can deny outright, he can send back to be reheard by ALJ (Soc. Sec. admin judge), he can approve outright. What a messy thing these benefits are.

We have not used our travel trailer but once a year since we got it several years ago. Depending on how much we get for it, we may be able to get a used pop-up trailer for our camping needs. I am just not into sleeping on the ground anymore with my arthritis. dh has not been given much vacation time the past 5 years anyway. He has been approved for a week in August - we will stay in a cabin if needed to get out in the woods. His love is riding his motorcycle in the woods -- I used to ride too but am too dizzy from meds to control the pain. gd limits my time riding behind him unless we have friends or family go with us -- they have not been very open to staying at camp with her though in past years.

I have been circling the past 3 months in a futile loop of despair and indecisiveness. We have to do something different if we expect our life to be different. I can work on validaton, boundaries (which DD will NEVER ACCEPT), and mindfulness to a point. Something has to shift in my physical environment to get out of this loop. We do not want homeless men in our home anymore - dd just cannot get the consequences this is having for her little girl. We have taken a stand on this boundary and it is contiinuously pushed. She still asks a friend over after 8pm and we still have to ask him to leave before the last bus. She still brings the bf during the day that the police escorted off our property. Dh would call the police if he were home. I am just tired of it all and need her out of my home.

On the homelessness - in the winter there are more resources available to be inside at night at shelter or warming center. A local church opens their doors one night a week for the homeless if there is no room at the shelter. These night places are only open OCT to Apr. And she is outside half the time now anyway. One of the hardest parts for DD of being homeless is no safe place to keep her stuff. It gets stolen or thrown out by the park service people. There is no where to cook the food she can buy with her food stamps - you cannot buy prepared foods with them - even grocery store deli items are not covered.

We have to be clear in our agreement with DD that she knows a decision has to be made by end of Sept if she can stay at the apt on her own resources or has to give notice. She has to choose to work with the programs in the community to accomplish this. If her choices end with  her being homeless, we can beleive in our hearts that we have done all possible to give her the opportunities to move forward in her life. She has to become willing to do the work.

On the probation, I think she just has to have a place to live with an address. It does not have to be our home.

Going to apply at the apartment this afternoon. Maybe I will stop by on my way to work soon to get the forms.

Thanks for you care.

qcr  

[jellibeans]

I think this is all well thought out and I hope your dd can get her act together. You have been very generous and kind to her and gd. I am hoping that her absense will give you the time and rest you need to rebuild your strength. I wish you luck... .  you are a good mama... .  

[qcarolr]

Everything turned upside down this afternoon. Had appt. at 2 to see apartment and do application with background check. Decided to go over our expectations clearly before we left. Everything was OK until DD realized if she could not renew lease on her own - with SSI or job - next Oct than we were not letting her move back home. She expressed concern about having to throw all her stuff out with nowhere to store it and it was the coldest time to be homeless. And I realized she is right.

This also brought all the abandonment emotions to the surface. We talked about her doing the vocation program and she has serious doubts about this being any different than other things she has tried. She also wants to see her dogs and gd on her schedule not ours.

She brought up her issues about gd and how she would never hurt her. I think it got through to her that the arguing and threatening WAS harming gd emotionally. It was effecting her at school and in neighborhood and has to stop.

DD's friend G was here to go with us to apartment. He is a really good friend for her - working to keep himself off of the street. We talked about needing routine - how this helps gd, how it helps G, how it could help DD move forward in her life.

We put moving on hold for now. DH seemed really relieved - he shared is unease with losing his travel trailer. Even if we don't use it now very much, it is there for him to know he can get away.

Then I checked my email for day - with borrowed computer from boss as mine is getting virus scanned at repair place. The SSI lawyer said to call her - both DD and I together. We did this and she got the judge's decision today - final denial. I am so very sad, angry disappointed. DD does have a new application (also denied) in process for appeal. This one is a little different as it also is asking for benefits as disabled adult child under my SSDI. This program would be a little more flexible and larger benefit, and DD would have to be my dependent.

It is all a game of risks and benefits. For now the apartment idea risks are outweighing the benefits. I called the landlord and asked hiim to let us know if an apartment opens up late summer or early fall. Am encouraging DD to participate in new program we are checking out next week. Maybe G can go with us to that one too. He seems to be able to talk to DD, and to me, and help us reason things out.

So I took a nap after gd got home from school. DD was very protective of me. She said "why can't you be my case manager" I said that I was not being successful with this I am so very tired. Deep fatigue. Told dh it feels like I am at the bottom of a glacier. Slowly being pushed along and ground down. All the smooth edges are worn off and I will be a tiny pebble hardly visible. And I fear that gd will be an even smaller stone beneath me. He said "well, you are still a smart little stone" and gave me a big hug.  He is my rock in the stream of my life - always there to bump into, hang onto.

My family is my earthly trial - this is where I need to be - it iss so painful and hard - continue looking for the joy. It is hiding from my thinking, yet I know it is there.  thanks for listening.

qcr  

So i got interrputed just now with DD yelling at a young child howling with our dogs - "Where the f... .  are the parents". I asked her what was going on, yelling and cursing was not acceptable. Then I went out and talked to the mom, who just out of sight. It is a neighbor with four little boys. It was a three year old enjoying howling at our dogs. I apologized for DD, and talked in three year old language about how upset the doggies were by this and to try not to do it next time.

DD's reply was 'why werent you out there handling the barking dogs'. geez, they are here because she brought them here. Don't know how this will ever work. gd is now upset because of her mom yelling and my intense response to her mom.  keeps circling round and round and round.

how can i have courage to just kick her out. why did i think 6 months in an apt. would be worth the investment when she most likely will end up homeless anyway. i feel like a halfway house.

gd is waiting to play a game with me before bedtime.

[qcarolr]

So DD left with friend G with her backpack. Her pattern is to be gone over the weekend with her homeless friends. We do get a break.

Reading other posts - BPD is harsh for all of us. We want to be there to encourage and support our kids -- all our kids. And BPD takes so much from us that it is hard to even function. And they won't let us go - DD26 won't let me go. And she won't put trust in anyone to give herself a chance at making her life better. I am so sad for her -- I get stuck in my own misery and forget this is hard for her at a much deeper level.

And I have to remind myself that she is grown up... .  her life is of her making whether by her conscious choice or by her not choosing.

So grateful dh is here and I am not alone with all this.

qcr  

[nickyg]

Hi there,

You are very supportive parents, given all you have been through.  I really hope she makes the most of this opportunity and that you will have some respite from your daughters behavior. 

Nickyg

[suchsadness]

Oh qcr, my heart goes out to you.  heart

I know the ups and downs of emotions and plans can just exhaust you to no end... .  you deserve a BIG break.  I hope you can find something to do that is going to give you some mental relief!  Just reading your posts felt overwhelming - the plans, the cancelled plans, the yelling/screaming, the niceness... .  it is all so confusing.  And through it all, you trying to protect your innocent gd, you are such a caring person.

Please take care, hang in there, and know that I (and many here) am thinking of you and sending   

[qcarolr]

suchsadness - maybe I could borrow your name for today. feel under a shadow - like dd is standing over me laughing with her arm raised. Don't know where this is exactly coming from. She was so cold yesterday when she was here. Quiet too. Not a typical response from her. She got home 8:30am - said I could go to church and she would be here with gd. Came home to quiet house - dd awoke enough to say friend G had come over and was on walk with gd and one of the dogs. G is good with gd - this was OK. So sad, so sad that DD not able to be there for her little girl. And later, when she was smoking outside she started the whole game of - you stole my child. I did not even have energy to reply. Went back inside.

Dh got home from work soon after and we agreed to get her some bus tix for May and a monthly bus pass for June. She and G left soon after for bus back to city -- she is happy with bus fare and pass. Gave her a small advance on her county stipend that comes in a couple of days.

Today, standing watching gd and her little friend running in the field behind our house - big bug net in hand - catching grasshoppers. A shadow crossed over me and brought an image of DD beating me up and I could not fight back. Having trouble shaking this gloomy feeling tonight.

Maybe will start a new topic tomorrow - move on. Will text DD at noon to ask if she wants a ride to the work program counselor appt. at 4pm. Not sure she will go. Tonight, I really do not care.

So sad inside. Gd did good tonight with her homework packet - there is joy here. Neighbors waved as they walked by this evening - there is joy here. Some nice hugs from dh tonight - I put my book away when he got home and set aside my thinking to listen to his day -- well as best I could. There is joy here. New women friends sought me out to give comfort after church yesterday - great joy in this. I have to believe if I keep looking the joys will push out the sadness for a bit anyway. So thankful I am not feeling so alone with all this anymore. And I have so many friends that understand here.

qcr  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[suchsadness]

Yes... .  you can borrow my name, but I don't want you to keep it for very long   

I am happy to hear you finding joy in your world and recognizing the many people around you who are not sick with this horrible illness.  Sometimes it just seems so all consuming and overwhelming!  I too found some joy in a lunch with my sister and later a bowling dinner with my weekly bowling team.  A very nice day after a weekend focused on how to correctly respond to my dd35.  Lets share a big