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Author Topic: Codependency Guilt  (Read 1480 times)
Maryiscontrary
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« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2013, 03:44:59 PM »

Some people just will not see it. I suppose that when I really internalized this on a real gut level is when I got pissed as hell. Some people are just takers, and do not deserve our investment.
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« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2013, 04:14:04 PM »

I think that just being codependent doesn't mean we are all the same. There is a whole lot more besides. So we all have different roads to get there. The ultimate place of healing/ being healed is functioning healthily in society and we all have a different view of how we want that to be. I don't want to be ever vigilant, I don't want to be always on guard against the takers. I do get that I need to be more guarded- I just don't think my personality and other parts of who I am allow me to go as far as others might want to.

I can still work towards putting my needs first and other goals. But I want to be me. I can swing too far in doing what others tell me, ie. Oh yes I'm a useless CD type. I need to hold on to my positives whilst battling the negatives. The negatives already eat me to pieces. Laelle I can't help guessing that happens with you too but I'm projecting here.

I guess I'm just saying we are all different in our CD just as pwBPD are all different!
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« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2013, 10:01:02 PM »

laelle... .  don't believe EVERYTHING you read~~especially on the internet!  Any joe-schmoe can write an article and put it out on the internet.  I tend to stick to articles that are worthy of publication in respectable journals.  I've gotten caught up in the trap of questioning myself because of some of the things I've read.  Part of your growth will be in knowing when to trust your instincts... .  you're not what this article suggests~~and neither am I.   
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« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2013, 08:45:52 AM »

Some of that article sounded harsh to me as well, but I also believe there are some hard truths in it.  However, I probably don't agree with all of it either, though.

I don't doubt either that I had good motives in wanting to help her in any way I could.  I did, and do, genuinely care for her very much, but my own character defects kept me from acting consistently in a healthy manner.  How could I truly be there for her and truly love her if I was neglecting myself and my needs?  I couldn't.  It's not possible.  I cannot fully love another if I'm not fully loving myself first.  But I felt guilty denying time and attention to her that I should've been giving myself.  I was fearful that she might reject me if I didn't 'give her my all'.   A big reasons she rejected me is because I could not live up to constant idealization.  I am not perfect. 

I believe we deceive ourselves in these relationships ever so slightly, and it takes some very honest questions to ourselves to start shining some light through the cracks.  Yes, my ex had a lot of problems, but so do I.  Water (as in emotions) seeks its own level.  I definitely 'get something' out of trying to be helpful, but I tend to lose myself in the process.  I was taught to be helpful while neglecting myself in the process.  So I become empty, with nothing left to give.  I exhaust my resources.  I have to draw the line and do my best to adhere to boundaries.

Laelle, it struck me what you were saying about 'good' and 'bad'.  I have struggled with black and white thinking, too.  I think it's great you are accepting all of you, the good and the bad.  Sometimes I don't like to use the term, bad.  There is darkness and light and shadows.  Human beings contain all of that.  We were made that way.  It is ok to be 'bad' sometimes, to live in grey areas, to make mistakes, to act like an idiot, and so on.  It is also apparent that we have great good in us or we wouldn't be bothering with trying to improve ourselves and doing this hard work and staying on this path.  Recovery is not for sissies.  You have great strength and love in you, Laelle.  You are a tower of courage!  And yes, it is ok and good to get angry.  I have let strong anger come out, and still do... .  just don't hurt anyone in the process.   

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MaybeSo
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« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2013, 09:17:12 AM »

I think bpdfamily.com is picky and generally cautious about the articles published on this site. I've seen articles removed. There is a reason it remains on this site. I'm assuming there is something to the article of value.

The main thing I don't like is the way the author assumes they know a persons intentions, then writes as though a cd will always act helpful but really just wants xyz and then we are given examples of XYZ and the examples are all really harsh and negative.

This reads as though a CD person is presenting as nice but really twisting their evil mustache with conscious intent behind the scenes.

Many articles and posts do the exact same thing when speaking of BPD.

Neither is really accurate; a person with these struggles is usually not aware enough to see

their behavior and beliefs systems objectively and how it impacts others or themselves. People

generally feel they are trying to do good, even if  there is evidence that the behavior is not

especially helpful or ends up self sabotaging.  

OTOH, CD behaviors often do get defended as the ultimate criteria for being a nice, useful person, and I personally feel it's important to shake that assumption up, and boy this article does that in spades.

There are gradations for all of this, too. I've seen Skip indicate that likely most folks discussed on this forum don't meet criteria for BPD and have no dx; but carry traits. The same is likely true for us; most of us probably don't meet the criteria for Dependent Personality Disorder, an axis II diagnosis, but we probably carry dependent traits. Of those traits, the variation is presentation can be immense. My way of being CD may manifest in a way strikingly different than someone else. There is no cookie cutter CD and no cookie cutter pwBPD.

Most difficult personalty traits were adopted in FOO as it worked or ensured membership or survival in that environment.

As with any article, take what speaks to you, put aside what doesn't.

Try to notice the instinct to rush in and reject anything that feels scary or causes you to question yourself. PI is a lot about questioning yourself. This is a safe place to do it. This is part of recovery, and gaining more awareness is always a bit painful.

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« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2013, 09:21:05 AM »

I will go against the flow on this one... . I think the article while harsh... . is dead on. Its the tough love message we need. Most the articles/books on codependency seem to view the codependent person(s) as victims with good intentions... . and the article correctly gets at the manipulative side of being a rescuer... . the part of it we possess but don't want to admit too.

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« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2013, 09:39:27 AM »

I dunno... .  

I dont think I was a victim, I played my part in it.  I am not however, the vile creature portrayed in that article. (I hope)  I know tho that I am no Teddy Bear.

I loved and needed to be loved. Its what I was willing to do to keep that love going.  If I stopped giving what he was needing, I knew (or thought) on some level he would leave me.

In my own low self esteem / image that was unacceptable.  I kept trying to set boundaries for myself in what I was willing to give, but I kept letting them slide further and further until

I ran out of room.  I was giving "All" for him, and none for me.  I am not really a victim as I had the control to stop it.  I just couldnt do it.  The pressure placed on me if I did, was immense.
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« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2013, 09:45:22 AM »

In the last few days of our relationship I was trying to speak to him about how I felt I was doing all the committing and he was doing everything he could to dodge it.  Changing course every time

some solid plans were made.  Not following up on promises, and seemingly not really caring about the outcome... .  shows me not commited.  On top of that I felt pressure to continue helping financially when I felt he wasnt being forthright with his intentions.

He got angry, said I couldnt commit, was a blood sucking vampire and dumped me.
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« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2013, 09:48:49 AM »

I don't agree Charred. Different things are spot on for different people. My coming to terms with my own CD/ narcissistic traits hasn't been helped by articles like that or by the CODA website. Not because I don't want to recognise the bad stuff in me, but because I too easily jump onto the bad stuff. I too easily think I'm a pile of c***. My battle is realising that I'm not, accepting the good whilst working on the bad. That article has no balance.

My battle is about being able to state my needs to somebody without being called a drama queen. Am I a drama queen? No. But I feel like one if I ever get ill. I feel like one because I'm currently in my third month off sick with an illness which I'm sure everybody else is judging me as 'drama queen' with! And that's because for the last 3 years I carried on running against everything terrified to play the victim, terrified to ever, ever let my ex or anybody know that any of anybody's actions ever had any impact on me, because too many people were dependent on me to be the strong one. I didn't do that because I wanted to be a martyr. I did it because I didn't have a choice, now I'm writing that and even just saying it I feel 'martyr' written all over me.

I wasn't like that in my r/s with my children's father. I was utterly c/d and hated myself for it.

Why I take issue with that article is some of us do not need to feed our self hatred. We are all different and there should and could be a gentler article on codependency on here. I believe that different people need different approaches. Yes I recognised part of me in the article but I read it at a time when I felt strong enough to dismiss parts of the article and explore my own definition of CD.
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« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2013, 09:59:22 AM »

As I am now more aware of myself and my ability to say no... .  like it or not.  I will say no to this article.  I can understand how there are extremes that run along that line,

but I refuse to believe that most of us are that way.  I am not Miss Havisham from The Great Gatsby.

I was PRESSURED to give... .  I gave because I thought it would make him happy.  If he was happy, he would stop being unhappy every single day... .  over and over.

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maria1
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« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2013, 10:01:25 AM »

Laelle, have you read Codependent no More by Melody Beattie? It's where a lot of the CD stuff comes from and is a lot less crass than that article.


Excerpt
I think bpdfamily.com is picky and generally cautious about the articles published on this site. I've seen articles removed. There is a reason it remains on this site. I'm assuming there is something to the article of value.

The main thing I don't like is the way the author assumes they know a persons intentions, then writes as though a cd will always act helpful but really just wants xyz and then we are given examples of XYZ and the examples are all really harsh and negative.

This reads as though a CD person is presenting as nice but really twisting their evil mustache with conscious intent behind the scenes.

Many articles and posts do the exact same thing when speaking of BPD.

Neither is really accurate; a person with these struggles is usually not aware enough to see

their behavior and beliefs systems objectively and how it impacts others or themselves. People

generally feel they are trying to do good, even if  there is evidence that the behavior is not

especially helpful or ends up self sabotaging.  

I agree with what you say Maybeso but I don't agree that we should just assume because it's on here it's gospel. I think it's dangerous to assume that and I maintain the article is damaging. Why intentionally trigger people in vulnerable states? I'm stepping back from this now as I don't think it's my battle to fight.

Laelle, I'm still with you  
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« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2013, 11:01:37 AM »

I mean great expectations... .  robert redford much? 
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MaybeSo
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« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2013, 11:22:53 AM »

Excerpt
Not because I don't want to recognise the bad stuff in me, but because I too easily jump onto the bad stuff.

this might be strengthened by working with this kind of material... .  in other words, the tendancy to be too tuff on yourself or buy too far into any part of a negative message about yourself, may become more balanced by sitting with the material and staying in wisemind rather than moving to emotion mind and rejecting it entirely.

Excerpt
but I don't agree that we should just assume because it's on here it's gospel.

I'm not aware of anyone suggesting the article is gospel!

Excerpt
Why intentionally trigger people in vulnerable states?

Several on this thread, myself included,  indicated the article shed light on a subject in a way they found at least in part helpful (not gospel, just helpful!) and with the amount of readers this site has, I would assume there are others that may find it useful, while others may find it triggering or of no value. It would be impossible, of course, for the site to anticipate who may or may not like the article.  I suppose the only way to fully protect from potentially triggering anyone is to remove the article from this site entirely, though you may still find it elsewhere on the internet, anyway. 

I'm not sure this one article is really the issue.

Excerpt
I will say no to this article.

We are all encouraged here to set aside any content or feedback that doens't resonate with us or is not useful.  This is no exception.

Excerpt
Laelle, I'm still with you 



So am I, and I think all posters on this thread are wanting to be supportive and are with you. 


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« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2013, 12:12:44 PM »

For me I think the tone of the article was inappropriate. It is written to sound authoritative and, well, gospel-like. It isn't merely suggesting things to think about so much as it is presented as The Truth about codependence. I don't think that's appropriate, especially when, hidden in the article itself, is an admission that it disagrees with much of the published literature on the subject and other experts in the field. There is a warning on this site not to post 'junk science' or unrecognized sources - I think this article falls into those categories. At the very least it should have a disclaimer and a link to some more main-stream thinking on the subject. I'm not saying the article has no value, but it is not well presented here.
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« Reply #44 on: April 30, 2013, 03:50:58 PM »

As I am now more aware of myself and my ability to say no... .  like it or not.  I will say no to this article.

Good for you, laelle!  I am saying no to some of what I read on the internet, too. Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #45 on: April 30, 2013, 06:37:08 PM »

Huh.  That article does catalyze emotional responses in a lot of us!  It reminds me of when I recently did a google search on codependency, and ran across this on wikipedia so i hope it is accurate:

Inverted narcissists

Sam Vaknin—"a self-help author who openly discusses his experiences as a person with narcissistic personality disorder"[16]—has identified a special sub-class of such codependents as "inverted narcissists."

Inverted or "covert" narcissists are people who are "intensely attuned to others' needs, but only in so far as it relates to [their] own need to perform the requisite sacrifice"


My take on this was it came as no surprise to me that a narcissist would define people who give rather than take as 'covert' or inverted narcissists.  Seems like pretty classic projection.  I didn't dig any deeper to find out if he took the philosophical perspective that (para) "everyone only does good works to feel better themselves or otherwise help themselves, because we are all narcissists".  Or if, as the reference I found might be indicating, Vaknin was really talking about only a specific sub-class of "co-dependents"

I certainly do not subscribe to the notion that codependents are narcissists - I do not believe that at all.  Yes, we co-dependents do selfish (at the expense of others) things at times. My belief is that Good and Evil exist.  We feel 'good' when we do a good thing because we are SUPPOSE TO feel good about doing the right thing!  (made in the image and likeness of God)  How many times is it so much EASIER to do the wrong thing in the moment because of some immediate, perhaps painful, repercussion, or because it "feels good" in the moment even if we KNOW it is the wrong thing to do?  If we stand our ground and do the right thing, sometimes immediately but most always eventually we feel pretty darn good about it.

Anyway, it seems the author of the bpdfamily.com article referenced in this thread may be influenced by Vaknin, or perhaps holds the narcissistic philosophical viewpoint.  When I first read it, one thought was "boy, my separated BPD wife would have a field day with this one!" Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #46 on: May 01, 2013, 01:03:20 PM »

Man, I remember reading that article for the first time. It was a hard read for me too. I am a recovering codependent. I see this article from a much different perspective today. For me, it was spot on accurate. All of it. Bear with me... .  

First of all I had to be really honest with myself about my behaviors. My life at the time was not good and I very much wanted to change. Went through a really bad depression after my r/s and it was hitting bottom for me. Depression, one of the characteristics. Something I've struggled with over my life at different times. Mainly because I didn't want to deal with being alone, and or, loneliness. 

Second, I was controlling. I didn't see this at first. Situations, that I put myself in, were anxiety ridden for me so I tried to control my environment, and if you were in my environment and causing me anxiety, I would try to control you too. I tried to control my exBPDgf, she told me this, I saw me trying to help her stay out of trouble. The truth was her behaviors scared me and stressed me out. Control her, control my stress and fear.

I was not emotionally available, I was emotionally immature. This stemmed from my childhood and I had to learn about my behaviors today. I had to look back to see where it all came from, not to blame but to understand. My codependency was an addiction. I would be involved in others lives to hide from my own feelings. This addiction went beyond my romantic r/s... . it included friends and family. I tried to fix people, when in truth I was trying to make things more comfortable for myself. I was self centered, a perfectionist, distrustful and full of fear.

I understand feeling guilty. Codependents are full of shame and I had to learn to new ways to cope. Going back and finding the source of this in my childhood was key. I learned I had to reparent that child that is still within me. I had to learn to be kind to her, be patient and be compassionate when I needed some discipline. To recognize my unhealthy behaviors and turn instead to healthy coping skills.

Codependence is full of learned behaviors and we can unlearn them. It takes diligence and hard work. Hard is hard, it is not a step above easy. This article was part of my wake up call. Yes, it's triggering for some, it was for me at first too. I think it is fair to compare this article to a codependent as you might some of our articles regarding BPD behavior as it would feel to a pwBPD.

I would remind you, the severity of traits vary just as individuals do, some mild, some extreme. I took what I should own and worked on that. We sometimes expect and sometimes hope that our pwBPD would just get help, work harder and get better. Why wouldn't we be willing to do this for ourselves first?
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laelle
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« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2013, 01:11:12 PM »

In my previous relationships I was never the "fixer", I was normally the one that needed to be rescued.

This relationship was totally different.  I loved this guy so much that I changed my own script.  It was against my own nature when I became his

caretaker.
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« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2013, 02:20:15 PM »

I don't agree Charred. Different things are spot on for different people. My coming to terms with my own CD/ narcissistic traits hasn't been helped by articles like that or by the CODA website. Not because I don't want to recognise the bad stuff in me, but because I too easily jump onto the bad stuff. I too easily think I'm a pile of c***. My battle is realising that I'm not, accepting the good whilst working on the bad. That article has no balance.

My battle is about being able to state my needs to somebody without being called a drama queen. Am I a drama queen? No. But I feel like one if I ever get ill. I feel like one because I'm currently in my third month off sick with an illness which I'm sure everybody else is judging me as 'drama queen' with! And that's because for the last 3 years I carried on running against everything terrified to play the victim, terrified to ever, ever let my ex or anybody know that any of anybody's actions ever had any impact on me, because too many people were dependent on me to be the strong one. I didn't do that because I wanted to be a martyr. I did it because I didn't have a choice, now I'm writing that and even just saying it I feel 'martyr' written all over me.

I wasn't like that in my r/s with my children's father. I was utterly c/d and hated myself for it.

Why I take issue with that article is some of us do not need to feed our self hatred. We are all different and there should and could be a gentler article on codependency on here. I believe that different people need different approaches. Yes I recognised part of me in the article but I read it at a time when I felt strong enough to dismiss parts of the article and explore my own definition of CD.

I don't take it as saying I am a pile of something... .  more like a bucket of water thrown on me to get my attention, and say "Knock it off." 

Our needs and boundaries matter, we need to have genuine empathy/sympathy for people when they are in a bad situation, but rescuing them is a dicey proposition... .  when so many of us have lived the "karpman drama triangle" cycle of relating, both in and out of the r/s with pwBPD. I can see our rescuing/codependent traits starting the cycle... .  and the article seems to be saying don't do that anymore... .  its not nice, and your manipulating people when you do it. The strong reaction I see from others on this makes me think it is because it hits home... .  did with me anyway.
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« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2013, 02:33:15 PM »

I recognize that I had some definite codependency issues.  I wouldnt have gotten in this relationship if I didnt.  After coming to this website and learning boundaries and such, I tried to knock it off.

I tried to stop saving him.  I wanted a fair and equal relationship, but he didnt understand.  He just saw it as me insisting to have my way. 
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« Reply #50 on: May 01, 2013, 07:49:17 PM »

I'm not saying that he wasnt a BPD, because he soo was, and im not saying that he was not verbally abusive, but wasnt what I was doing abusive too?



I have had to wonder this same thing,  and over the last two years what I've concluded is that some of what I did was indeed abusive.

That is not to say that I was in any way twisting my evil mustache or even aware at the time that what I was doing was abusive, but I know now, that it was abusive, and at the very least, indicative of very unhealthy relationship behaviors.

For example:

-My attempts to control were abusive. I have no business trying to control or monitor or change another adult, certainly not a loved one.

-My constant focus on how messed up he was, and my need to label him and preach to him about what he needed to change, was abusive. (When he did this to me, it felt like gaslighting and it scared me and made me feel crazy... .  what I can now see, it that MY insistance that HE was the problem had the same affect on him, it felt like I was insisting that he was 100% to blame for our r/s problems because he was mentally ill according to ME... .  that's also gaslighting. It goes both ways.  I am not his doctor or therapist, I am much too close and subjective to be labeling him.  It's scary to have a loved one insist that YOU are mentally ill or that all the r/s problems are due to YOUR mental problems. It was just as disturbing to him as it was to me.

-My fervor in hoping I could help him and therefore change him... .  and my belief that if I did suceed in changing him he would then be such a happier person, and  more stable, productive person and he'd love me and feel grateful to me for the rest of his life. Ugh!  The hubris of my actions today, looking back, make me cringe. But that's what I did. Not proud of it, but that what I did.

-And in anger I said some ugly thing to him, also.

Having said all that. I'm not a bad person and I am not going to beat myself.  I am only human. I was just using the coping skills I had at the time and some of the skills I had were maladaptive, much the way some of his coping skills were quite maladaptive, too.

 
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« Reply #51 on: May 01, 2013, 08:37:28 PM »

I still wonder if we are not rather quick in labelling ourselves as codependent. Maybe I am not ready to see, but I don't feel comfortable wearing this label. And, it's not that I don't want to. It's like someone with a terrible abdominal pain, they go to the Dr., told its nothing to worry about, go back a week later and told the same thing. The pain persists for months without relief and they get to the point where they don't care how dire the diagnosis is, they just want a diagnosis so they know what they are dealing with. That is how I felt. What was wrong with me that I stayed in this relationship so long. I want an answer. Codependent was the most obvious and the one that seemed to surface on posts repeatedly. Finally, an answer, something I could face, understand and deal with. But, it just doesn't fit for me and I wonder if that is not the same for others. That we want something to explain why and so grab on to this explanation. Yet, for me it is like wearing a coat, two sizes too small. I can get it on, but its uncomfortable, and the buttons just don't do up. In the same way I can recognize some of the traits of codependency that I have but they are few and were not the reason I became enmeshed or the reasons I stayed.

I believe the very traits that were my strength, became the very traits that were my weakness and contributed to my staying in the relationship. Not because of codependency but rather from the highly empathetic, compassionate and forgiving nature I have. A nature that I didn't understand needed to have a liberal dose of truth seeking in it to prevent my being taken advantage of.
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« Reply #52 on: May 02, 2013, 01:09:37 AM »

I never told my ex he was messed up.  I let him make his own decisions.  Only when he asked me to choose, did I voice my (true) opinion. The rest of the time I would speak to him about the options I saw in something and he would kick them around in his head.  It was very important for me not try to make his decisions for him. He was extremely intelligent and was very quick to tell me what he needed and didnt need me to do.  

It was only when I started to see the pattern that he kept jumping in the same rabbit hole that made me start saying "Look out for that rabbit hole!"  I never labeled him or called him sick.

When we started the relationship he told me he was BPD.  I accepted that it wasnt going to be a "normal" relationship.  I just didnt realize that it was going to be an "impossible" relationship.

Me and a friend were talking last nite about how my ex would tell me that he wanted me to come and live with him, and the next day he would encourage me to get custody of my kids, which (he knew) would then force me to stay where I am.  Then when I took custody of the kids (which of course was what I wanted in reality), he told me that I didnt know what I wanted.

We had talked about him coming to live here with me and that if he had to do it he would.  Then he tells me that he wont live here after I took custody of the kids.  If I am living here then I had to start paying my bills here, and not planning on taking over my share of his bills.  He didnt like that and told me that I was not committing to what we agreed.

He was full of contradictions like this. How can I possibly be in two places at once?  How can I pay my way here and his way there?

He dumped me when i started to enforce boundaries.  I wasnt going to commit further to a relationship, if he couldnt sit down and give me a solid plan and follow it.  He got angry and dumped me.

I take the blame for entering a relationship where I knew he needed to dominate me, and I was more than happy to take the submissive role.  In my other relationships I was the one who had to make all the decisions, and it was nice to have someone else be the leader.  It was the blind leading the blind.

I am not blaming him for the relationship, I knew he would become addicted to my submissiveness as I know he was a controller.  That was how I wanted to keep him.

What a stupid thing to think.  He sucked me in chewed me up and spit me out.

If anything, he helped to cure me of my co dependency.   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Cumulus
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 413



« Reply #53 on: May 02, 2013, 05:43:22 AM »

Laelle, do you mind me asking what you saw in yourself as codependent traits? I related to that line about it being nice to have someone else as the leader but it was like the blind leading the blind. But, my xBPDh only led in some areas, in others I led and made the most of the decisions. From what you posted it seems like you did too. Making decisions for your family based on what you thought was the best for everyone not just him. And you said you didn't make his decisions for him, nor did you want to. That doesn't sound codependent. It sounds like a woman in love with a troubled man. A woman who tried to make things work, against the odds and was able to recognize that she wasn't capable of being and giving to the two parts of the relationship.

I don't blame my x for the relationship either. Not only do I think assigning blame is unproductive I just don't like what that says about me to me. But, over the months I have been able to assign him the responsibility of his actions. And leave them with him. They were not my actions, I would never condone that kind of behaviour and I am in no way responsible for them. He owns them, not  me.

Sorry, I know have drifted a ways from your topic, obviously that article triggered my defences too. So, isn't there some other explanation besides CD that has attracted or kept myself and others in this kind of relationship.
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MaybeSo
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Relationship status: Together five years, ended suddenly June 2011
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Players only love you when they're playing...


« Reply #54 on: May 02, 2013, 09:05:53 AM »

Laelle, Cumulus,

If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.

The opening paragraph of this thread would lead a reader to believe their was painful recognition and a very strong reaction to one of many articles on cd and non behavior on this site. At this point, there would seem to be little or no recognition.

Folks, all CD is ... .  

Is an unhealthy relationship where two emotionally immature people become addicted (dependent) on eachother and the relationship itself. The examples of exactly how that plays out

are like the stars, too many to possibly count and each unique.

The article is here because most nons in a long term r/s here DO recognize disturbing elements

of CD in the r/s. And because a cd dynamic is ubiquitous in r/s where one person has a addiction or mental illness etc.

However, If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.

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laelle
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« Reply #55 on: May 02, 2013, 09:49:05 AM »

I walked into my french class today and only my professor was there.  No other students showed up.  We spent the day talking.  Turns out his minor in college was psychology. He did alot of research on personality disorders, and research papers on BPD.  

He told some very basic statement, and it freed me.  I want to mention in advance that my ex had all 9 of the criteria for BPD.  I understand that no person is exactly the same, and everyone

walks into the relationship with different skills.  This is not an insult to anyone working on their relationship.  This applies in my relationship.

I did not exist to my ex other than an emotional garbage can. (sorry, I know its harsh language)  He kept me around with him all the time because he had alot of garbage to throw away.  There was probably more than one person involved because one garbage can could not hold it all.  The only care he felt for me was making sure that the garbage can didnt roll down the street.

Everyone is co dependent to an extent.  As a few people here have mentioned,  Its who you choose to share your emotions with that was the error.

I went into the relationship thinking I cold help to make a sick heart whole (Cod)(because I have a need to make people happy)(I overlook the bad) (to feel good about myself)

He went into the relationship looking for a place to store his garbage, and I added a sense of stablity that helped him to "contain" his frantic emotions.

You cant expect to be in a relationship with someone who is disordered without becoming disordered (while in the relationship) yourself.

good + crazy = crazy  ALWAYS

I let go.

Oh, and I think I need a new psych.  Mine has NO experience with BPD.  Then again, I dont know if I need a BPD specialist.  Maybe I know what i need to know and can keep working on me.
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