Post natal depression

[heronbird]

 *Hi!

What happens after a pwBPD has a baby, has anyone got any real life experience of this.

My dd has 3 weeks until her baby is due and all the team that are looking after her are expecting her to get really bad with some sort of depression or psychosis.

If so, would it happen straight away or would it be a week away? They wont let her leave hospital until they have a meeting, so she may have to stay in for a few days, which she hates. What happens if it happens a week later or something.

I hope and think she will be ok, but I wonder how common it is.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[pessim-optimist]

Actually, heronbird,

I have just read a post by someone several days ago about their dd doing wonderful after a birth of a baby, contrary to what everyone was expecting. However, the post seemed to indicate that this was an unexpected occurrence and that postpartum depression is very common... .  

No experience of my own (although our ud32 was depressed after her babies were born, she did ok), I will try to find that post, and let you know... .  

[mamachelle]

hi heronbird,

I do think post partum depression is common, more common in the general population than was once thought. I do not know statistics for BPD mothers, but I would love to hear more if there is a research study for it.

You can plan for it and do your best to normalize things for your DD.

A couple things I can think of off the top of my head:

- I would suggest getting a copy of the book, Birthing from Within, and work through some of the exercises for visualizing the birth with your DD.

- If she is going to breastfeed then that should help with the hormone shifts, however, if she is going to be on psychiatric drugs right away that may not be possible. I would hope that she be allowed to breastfeed if she is able to.

- I would talk with her doctors about the role of hormones and how birth control might help her.

- Also, getting a doula for before, during, and after the birth should help her a lot. I would suggest making sure she has a lot of support after the birth. Not intrusive stuff, but someone to help clean the house and just help her along as she needs.

-If she is having a C-section then she will be in the hospital longer anyways. My first 2 were natural, my 3rd was supposed to be a water birth but ended up a c-section. ouch!

Every birth is such a unique event, you just don't know.

I have 3 bio kids. 2 DD 13 and 16 and 1 S 2. I'm 43 now, but when I gave birth in 97, my counselor (who was a grad student and probably my age-mid twenties) decided I was at risk for post-partum depression and wanted me to participate in a research study. I got very upset with her for pegging me and told her I would cross that bridge when I got there... .  Luckily I never had the Depression-- but I can relate to how your DD feels being told she is at risk (even if that risk is pretty high)

So, that being said, I am also a Smom to 3 SS who's mom has BPD-- She did not become psychotic, but she did have Depression after her births.

You are right that it may not happen right away. It may not at all, but do let your DD know that it is very very common and that she is not being singled out!

 

mamachelle

[griz]

Hi Heronbird:  Is it possible she could go on some kind of hormone therapy... .  maybe even a birth control pill that would keep her hormone levels the same.  My DD and I were just talking about this the other day after reading an article on PMDD.  They said that many doctors prescribe birth control pills to keep the hormone levels at a place where the person functions best.

Could be all hogwash... .  but worth asking.

Griz

[jellibeans]

Dear Heronbird

I hear the worry in your post... . it is good to be prepared but sometimes the anticipation can bring on other problems with BPD... .  try to enjoy this time with your dd... .  it is so exciting... .  I am so happy for you all... .  

Worrying does not empty tomorrow of it's troubles. It empties today of it's strength.

[pessim-optimist]

My apologies, heronbird!

I found the post I was thinking about, and it was not after birth, it was during pregnancy that the person was doing so good... .  

It is really embarrassing to admit, but the post I was remembering was actually YOURS, talking about the fact that your dd was doing good while pregnant... .  

  Oh well, at least I hope I have provided some humor on this thread. 

[vivekananda]

Hi HB!

It's good to see you back on the boards 

I think jellibeans advice was really good.

Having said that, I had post natal depression really bad. What I needed was validation and support. My dd was very difficult and I struggled. It is the same old stuff that gets us through normal depression and anxiety that will help with post natal depression... .  there is nothing new for you in knowing what to do, I don't think. I think a good sense of humour may be helpful to defuse anxieties surrounding how to care for a baby, also. Let your dd determine the pace of your support, rather than you come in as the 'expert' who has done it before... .  let her feel in control.

I feel confident you know what to do and how to do it.

Cheers,

Vivek    

[heronbird]

 

Thanks so much for all your replies, its just good to be prepared, Im not worried at all. I am just interested if this is a real issue. Its mainly because everyone who is looking after her now has said they are expecting it to happen, I have not told my dd, and I am also very aware that we should not be expecting it to happen.

Yes a lot of people get the blues after baby is born, you dont have to have BPD, there was a man on TV with a 5 week old baby, his wife killed herself when baby was 3 weeks, no one knew she had post natal depression. How tragic was that. So could have been avoided eh! :'( So serious too, she didnt have BPD.

Pessim   

Thats so funny, I laughed so much, I realised it was mine before I read they bit you wrote about it being mine hahahahah

She is on medication, they do not recommend she breast feeds on it, I need to do my research to double check.

Thank you though for all your replies, she is so so much better. So sad though, you can see she has still got all her issues still there.

Does BPD go into remission, if so I wonder what the longest time it lasts for.

[jellibeans]

Here's hoping it is for a long time! Such good news... .  

[mamachelle]

hi heronbird,

Take a look at Dr. Sears (Dad and his kids are all pediatricians) websites and books on attachment parenting and baby wearing with your DD. There is a whole industry dedicated to this with baby wearing devices and such. My friend's 19 year old DD just had a baby and she was really into this already -- so this may be old news to you.

It's a pretty simple and ancient concept, and wearing the baby keeps the baby quiet. Crying babies are a huge trigger for all new parents.

It may not be for everyone or your DD... .  but it helps, really does, to keep mom moving and active with both hands... .  and baby quieter and content.

Helps with bonding too.

So excited to hear how things go. So keep us posted.

  mamachelle

[heronbird]

Hi, Thanks for that advice mamachelle (love the name)

Did you mean carrying the baby on you, oh, not sure weather to recommend  dd to hold baby too much, I believe in having a rule to let him cry for a certain time and not running in as soon as you hear a whimper. Dd told me she will put her headphones on if baby is crying and she cant do anything. haa, dont know if thats a good idea or not.

Its finding the right balance really so that the baby does not get BPD, or if he has the genetics for it, we want to do our best, I think I am going off the subject here but I find this interesting.

Knowing what we know now about our BPD kids, we would have done things differently, except I couldnt stop the horrid kids hurting my dd at school which is when her problems started. What will I do if GS gets hurt at school? I dont know, prob go mad and keep him home or something, I been so hurt about all that.

Someone needs to write a book on how to cope if you have BPD when having a baby and how to bring that baby up to be confident at least.

She has three weeks to go now, she cant wait, said she was drinking some sort of tea to make the baby hurry up, she wants him now. Haha, I guess a lot of parents would love to have their babies early.

I will google attachment parenting and baby wearing when I get chance later, Thanks again

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[pessim-optimist]

Hi heronbird,

Its finding the right balance really so that the baby does not get BPD, or if he has the genetics for it, we want to do our best, I think I am going off the subject here but I find this interesting.

I have read this desperate girl's post about attachment parenting - she held and attended to her girl all the time (was really worn out) and then when her second baby came, she had to divide her attention between the kids, and the first went through a BIG trauma as a result... .  

I think that the attachment parenting is a GOOD idea in general, and there is validity to staying close to the baby, especially if they are in distress, and attending to all of their legitimate needs, and holding them for their feeling of safety and belonging.

However, there comes a point where the baby is crying just because they are bored - and the TRICK is to have the DISCERNMENT of what is what, and gently WITH VALIDATION (even the baby can be validated by the soothing voice and gentle touch by their mother), gradually starting the process of separation that begins at birth and ends with adulthood.

What will I do if GS gets hurt at school? I dont know, prob go mad and keep him home or something, I been so hurt about all that.

... .  

Someone needs to write a book on how to cope if you have BPD when having a baby and how to bring that baby up to be confident at least.

The school thing can be devastating to kids that are different from others. Home-schooling or in-home tutoring might be a good option. Some people here had great results with in-home tutoring.

A great idea for that book!

All the best, I know this is a time of excitement for your family!  

[mamachelle]

Hi heronbird,

Its finding the right balance really so that the baby does not get BPD, or if he has the genetics for it, we want to do our best, I think I am going off the subject here but I find this interesting.

I think that the attachment parenting is a GOOD idea in general, and there is validity to staying close to the baby, especially if they are in distress, and attending to all of their legitimate needs, and holding them for their feeling of safety and belonging.

However, there comes a point where the baby is crying just because they are bored - and the TRICK is to have the DISCERNMENT of what is what, and gently WITH VALIDATION (even the baby can be validated by the soothing voice and gentle touch by their mother), gradually starting the process of separation that begins at birth and ends with adulthood.

Hey Heronbird,

I think attachement parenting is good and letting them cry it out is good sometimes too. Pessim-optimist has some good thoughts above. Too much of either is going to cause problems.

I'm a mom of 2 teen girls as well as a 2 year old that I use some attachment parenting techniques with. Frankly, my 13 yo is really into attachment parenting--- she loved wearing her little bro and was fine with changing diapers. My 16yo is more of a put on the headphones... . let the baby cry it out type and never changes diapers.

A lot depends on your DD and also the temprament of the little one. I think it's best to not look at the two ways of parenting as diametrically opposed but part of a better way of parenting that should help DD and baby bond. As much as she learns to be sensitive/not over sensitized and frazzled... .  to baby's cues then the better.

Sending lots of hugs your way.  

mamachelle

[heronbird]

Yes, interesting subject really. I dont advise to rush to baby as soon as it whimpers because you are teaching it to cry then.

At the moment, Id say Im more worried about how dd is too over protective towards babies or pets.

If she is with a relatives little one, say her 2 year old neice, she treats it better than anything in the world, worrying if the child slightly stumbles, cant leave it to cry for a second, so she seems to be too over protective, but she will learn.

She says she keeps getting horrid thoughts in her head about awful things that could happen to a baby.Not necessarily  hers. Its upsetting for her.

Well, time will tell.

You also have to make sure you get a break from baby or you will not be at your best. I tried to carry my son everywhere because he cried a lot, I just ended up getting tired and fed up of it.

Oh  well, its a hard job either way.

Thanks for your feedback, its so helpful and supportive

Ill be back asking what we should do if he is crying when she leaves him at play group when he is older haaa

[qcarolr]

All this depends on the age of the baby. Understanding what is a reasonable expectation for the developmental age and temperament of your infant is a key to learning the how, when, what of responding. ANd it is important to RESPOND and NOT REACT. This was the hardest part for me and my DD as mom's espcially when we were not in a balanced, calm place.

So taking care of the mom has to come first - the skills to self sooth, distract... .  All those DBT skills work when being a mom.

Now my DD - she HATED being in the snuggly. She fought it after the age of about 6 weeks. She needed to be able to move about. So I needed other ways to be close to her, to sooth her.

My gd7 loved to be snuggled close, and often still does. Swaddling as an infant, rocking, being sung to, massage (back, feet, hands, hair - these are still her favorites). And gentle talking - it is in our brain system to be drawn toward a sing-song voice. Even as adults. This is most soothing kind of music - gentle and rythmic.

Just some ideas. And if self-soothing is not availble ----- PUT THE BABY IN A SAFE PLACE, SHUT THE DOOR, TAKE A BREAK, CALL SOMEONE FOR SUPPORT. All babies and toddlers will drive the parents nuts sometimes.

qcr  

[vivekananda]

HB, I was reading the National Guidelines on BPD (Aust) yesterday when I thought of you. There is a section that you may find helpful where it talks about infants of mothers with BPD. It is based on the research available and says that mothers with BPD and their infants show disturbed patterns of interaction compared with nons and experience specific parenting issues. This includes attachment issues. It also talks about family focussed interventions that could help.

see pp114, 115, 116 www.nhmrc.gov.au/guidelines/publications/mh25

cheers,

Vivek    

[heronbird]

Thank you Viv, good reading, have not had a chance to read all yet.