Motel til snow passes, then homelessness

[qcarolr]

DD26 did go to appt. with work counselor yesterday at 4. She was quite agitated. Texted through whole meeting. I basically told counselor I was there to bring DD for this initial intake, then it was up to her to make future appts. Do not know, or today care, how she chooses to handle this. Always hope for the best, expect a no-show. She met friend G and stayed in city -- I took some clothing home to the laundry pile in her room.

At 10:30pm she called. Had missed last bus, it was raining hard and she was soaking in her hoodie. So I drove to pick her up at gas station store - let's call it K. A few minutes into drive home she was excitedly telling me about her friend that had just acquired a full set up to grow pot. So I said - not in my house. She went off - yelling, punching my arm,... .  So I pulled over. She refused to get out and I knew if I tried to call 911 she would hurt me. So I chose to get her motel for 3 days til winter storm passes -- it is still snowing this afternoon and very wet stuff. Then took her to K store to get cigarettes and snacks. She was just crazy - yelling at me, shoving me, demanding that I follow her around store. I gave her $20 and went to wait in car. She wouldn't let me into car. Was shoving me into glass storefront. I made her put back things until the bill was under $20. Dropped her back at motel.

Dropped off her coat, socks, dry shoes, computer today. She was saying "I am not moving out after this 3 days". Reminded her theh housing specialist is at mental health center tomorrow morning - she needs to go. Then she shoved me again. I left and went to work.

Have contacted my old lawyer about rules to evict her. I know from prior years I have the legal crap to keep her out of the house. I will need to disclose the assault behaviors to justify this.

I contacted her mental health case manager and told him she cannot be in our home after her assault on me last night. She is homeless. He hopes she comes tomorrow so he can talk with her and see if he can help her. I just have to stay out of her way.

Luckily gd was already asleep last night, and off to school this morning. Called her teacher - she is having a great day. She is off on the end of year field trip/party with her brownie troop til 6:15. This will give dh and I some private time to process all this before we get her.

Yes, I could have called police to report assault after I dropped her back at motel. Had asked someone at K store, but none wanted to get involved. If this does get filed later can figure out who the cashier was that night. Most likely have video of much of this that happened inside store.

suchsadness 'loaned' me her name on my other thread. think I will keep for today too. This disease is awful. And I know so much of DD's actions are trying to hold onto me. And they are building a big wall between us.  :'( :'(

I will be OK. dh just got home. Just needed to vent.

qcr  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[BioAdoptMom3]

Well you have certainly come to the right place to vent!  My heart just goes out to you in your sadness.  You have to be so heartbroken right now and confused as well about the right thing to do for her, and for you.  My DD is only 13 so I haven't been where you are, at least not yet, but it sounds to me like you are doing the right thing by not allowing her to return home after the assult.  I also agree with you that it was a good idea to consult your lawyer about all of this.  I wish I could offer advice, but since I have no experience specifically with what you are going through I can only offer a listening ear, or reading eye!  I will also offer my prayers for your and your family.  Bless you for caring for your precious GD!

[GaGrl]

I am holding you in my heart tonight.

[Thursday]

Sorry qcarolr

I know this is not what you had hoped for.

I'm hoping things will work out for everyone in your family. This decision will give three very deserving people some space to breathe. And maybe your DD will be able to evolve with these changes.

Keeping you in my thoughts... .  

thursday

[pessim-optimist]

qcr,

vent on, as much as you need to... .  

This is must be so very hard to do AND relieving the very stressful situation at your house at the same time - some mixed emotions for sure... .    :'( :'(    

[suchsadness]

Hi again qcr... .  I just responded to your post on another thread.  And YES by all means, I understand why you need to keep my name for a bit.

As I read I can very much feel the whole thing play out - as I have been in similar situations with my dd35.  It is so devastating and hard to come to the realization that the person you are trying so hard to help and protect can treat you that way.  On the positive side, maybe this is the event that finally helps you realize that it is truly time that she needs to move out and that it would be best for you, your dh, and precious gd.  

I once went to a religion based group that was called Prasso - the theme of it was "Act instead of React".  When I keep this in mind, it has helped me with many decisions I have had to make and it helps me process things instead of letting my emotions guide me.  I think visiting with your attorney is a wise thing as well.  My thoughts are with you tonight - please take care.      

[jellibeans]

my heart is hurting for you... .  qcr you are in danger... .  you must try to find a way for you to be safe. I am truly worried for your safety. you must contact the police... .  get a restraining order against her... .  please take care of yourself... .    

[swampped]

qcr:            Swampped

[qcarolr]

Thanks so much for your understanding and caring replies.  

No response from the lawyer. He is the one that helped us with custody of gd in 2006, with RO against DD in 2009-2010, and various other advice. I took him off retainer last year when things seemed to be going OK.

I did call the local police office number (not dispatch) for information on eviction. Don't remember officer's name, but he remembers our home. He was most likely here time before the last - DD was in her room and very 'belliergent' and he remembers the 'sweet little girl'.  So sad, yet feel the support of his concerns and to call 911 if she comes home and is threatening us.

He suggests we at least give her the eviction 3-day notice as a 'tenancy at will'. Then if she stays away no further action. If she persists and fights it, then we have to take a couple other steps through the court.

She texted me asking about her med refills. We had talked yesterday about this. Text back torRemind her she has to see her provider to get refills, gave her the appointment line number and that she has bus pass to get there. Also said her case manager is available to help her with housing counselor before 11am tomorrow.

Then she texted. "U r awfully rude and cruel to me and I don't deserve to be so meaningless. How am I suppose to even wanna try."

My reply. "Because u r smart and able to make these calls or go meet case manager who has application for new housing program that is open. I love u and also will no longer be the victim of ur bullying behaviors."

No reply since. I hope this reply had a little tone of validation in it. I do love her. I will not continue to be bullied by her. This text so clearly expresses the underlying trauma she is going through right now. My stepping back from case managing her life, and I have been doing this for past 8 weeks or so, does feel rude and cruel to her, and opens up that vast BPD emptiness where the self/identity should reside. And the on-off-on-off with her exbfM triggers these feelings as well. And being asked to move out 8 weeks ago, and my continuing to searching out opportunities for other living arrangements for her. I have done all I can -- she has to connect directly with the housing coordinator at mental health. Just as she has to follow up with the work counselor at mental health.

To move away from hard core homelessness, she has to get connected at the mental health center. And to stay out of jail, she has to do her probation requirements - she has a bus pass that stops 3 blocks from her probation counseling center. I hope she goes in and vents all about me, and her exbf, and thinking I stole gd7 with our custody... .  

The acceptance piece that I am moving toward tonight, is that dh nor I can force her choices in any of this. He an I have to sit together, listen quietly to each other, and experience this pain together. It is nice to not feel so alone in this anymore. This is harder for dh than for me in many ways as he has stuffed these emotions of sadness for a long time. His grief is more raw than mine today.

So in my bible study group Tuesday I said I have to armour up -- be ready for a fight. Just had a premonition that I would be attacked. I took care of myself by getting to a public place. When it was time to return from K store to motel, DD impulsively invited a homeless guy to ride with us. Fine by me - a witness. And he wasn't so sure of his choice when Dd was throwing her snacks at me driving her back.  :)o you think this was an attempt to get me to get angry back at her - to become reactive so she could more justify her actions even to her skewed way of thinking?

Gotta go settle gd -she is wound up yet from her brownie excursion today.

qcr  

[lbjnltx]

 :)o you think this was an attempt to get me to get angry back at her - to become reactive so she could more justify her actions even to her skewed way of thinking?

Yes

[qcarolr]

Thinking more clear today. dh and I talked last night. united on fact that dd cannot be in our home right now. Hoping she goes to meet with housing counselor - continue to let go of this today. Tired but not feeling the deep fatigue.

lbj - I can make some good assumptions about what is motivating DD's behavior - understanding of all the stressors weighing on her. I can feel deep sadness that she has to struggle so. I have to shelter my heart and slowly work through my own process to grieve all this. And keep myself physically safe.

Had good session with T this morning. help to focus on joys in my marriage and with gd. Awesome beauty with fresh snow everywhere and bright sunshine. It will be messy by tonight - beautiful white for now. So grateful for this gift of sight and the ability to perceive that it is beautiful.

Know in my heart that must take a no contact break with DD for myself. T suggested to start with 3 months. dh will need to step up if she needs anything from the house - either to drop off to her somewhere or be here for her to come in while i am gone and gd is gone. Want to avoid getting courts involved if possible. Have no intention to complicate her life more if she can choose to accept this voluntarily. If I have to get RO from court, I will. I cannot function in all aspects of my life when consumed by fear.

Hard to stop my thinking of how this no contact will look, feel, be managed. I believe supervised contact with gd may work out as long as I am not there -- and maybe dh too. Have to practice patience for this process to evolve. I can breath better with this plan. Perhaps can find the peaceful place inside to be more mindful. First step in being kind and loving to myself. Being more loving with gd and dh. Allowing others in community to reach out to DD.

Left message with gd's T asking if mental health center has mediation services when time comes to work out contact between dd and gd. And her dog.

Taking gd to her 2nd equine therapy session today. Regardless of mud, she will be on a horse today. She chose Frankie - the gypsy wagon horse. Looks like a downsized draft horse. I am planning to be nearby but as invisible as possible with goal to have gd doing this without my presence. dh asked me to take a picture of her today.

I so appreciate everyone that shares my story, whether you are able to reply or not. Thank you for being here for me.

qcr

DD just called - i answered. she wants to know when I will come to get her when the room is done. told her that is tomorrow and she is not coming home. asked if she talked to her case manager - yes and she is on another waiting list. She is freaking out and needs me to 'talk to her like a normal human being'. She said the cashier at the store knows her and thinks I was being weird. Which I am sure is true - this is where the homeless buy stuff. Told her to call her dad tonight. I do not want to talk to her and be yelled at and pushed around.  She is thinking she has to leave motel today - I already paid for tonight. She can leave tomorrow. She totally denies any physical contact with me, or says it is needed to get me to stop being so mean to her. If detaching from her feels mean  - than I am being mean to her.

This is soo HARD. DD is in so much PAIN. There is nowhere for her to go. Am I being unreasonable? We have not had a calm conversation in weeks. The doubt always always returns.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

qcarol... .  did you provide every opportunity within your means for your daughter to have a roof over her head?

Did you provide every opportunity to get her to where she could take advantage of the multiple community programs to help herself?

Did you provide every opportunity for your daughter to be part of her daughter's life?

Did you love her unconditionally?

Did you support  her and not enable her?

Will allowing her to continue to be disruptive, abusive, controlling, and unaccountable be helpful to anyone?

Has she survived homeless before?

What can you do to deal with the painful decisions you have to make?

 

[stupafly]

qcarolr   ,

You have done so much for your daughter!  I hate that she has done this to you.  You really have gone above and beyond for her.  I think you are doing the right thing. 

At the same time I know how much it hurts to have someone you love so much abuse you.  To be pulled close and then shoved away.   I know you have done everything and you don't deserve it.  You have done your best and done way more than I could ever imagine for her and her daughter.  Again, you are doing the right thing. 

 

Stupafly

[Being Mindful]

Dear qc,

My prayers are with you... .  may you find peace dear. You deserve some rest. You are a great mom and grandma. I am supporting you. May you find strength in the support of others here. I wish you some peaceful sleep and days filled with some joy.

Being Mindful

[nickyg]

Hi qc,

Thinking of you.  In fact I was even thinking of you in the night when I woke up and I'm usually thinking of my own situation and about how I can manage it. It sounds devestating! I to have been physically attacked whilst driving. It was so dangerous because I swerved and could have had an accident.  I ended up going to the community constable who came round and spoke to my daughter.  She hasn't done it again since thank goodness though as you know she continues to abuse me in other ways. 

The visual image that comes to me of your situation is that of the air line safety rules they have when you fly. In the event of needing to use an oxygen mask put your own mask on before you put on your childrens.  This is so important for you because you have a little one who needs a stable and relaxed home and your own mental health is important to maintain as well. 

From what you are saying your daughter is not going to step up until things get really bad.  She is not taking any responsibility and she is putting all the guilt on you.  How will anything change unless she is taking some responsibility?  You are feeling guilty because of what she says to you, her words are designed to keep you hooked in, but she has options and she is very resilient. She knows you will do anthing for her if she says the right things.  Step back and hand it over to God if you can.  I don't think this is something you have any control over.

As I write this, I am also writing to myself as this is exactly what I need to hear.  I think it's the only way out. 

Stick to your bottom line if you can - although I know how hard it is and I don't know what I'd do if I was in the same situation. At least my daughter can stay with my brother for the time being   

[pessim-optimist]

My reply. "Because u r smart and able to make these calls or go meet case manager who has application for new housing program that is open. I love u and also will no longer be the victim of ur bullying behaviors."

qcr, it is SO HARD!  

I am with you, it always tugs at our heart when we decide to do something that will be painful for our children.

Can I use your own story to put things in perspective for you?

Thinking more clear today.

... .  

Know in my heart that I must take a no contact break with DD for myself.

... .  

DD just called - i answered.

... .  

This is soo HARD. DD is in so much PAIN. There is nowhere for her to go. Am I being unreasonable? We have not had a calm conversation in weeks. The doubt always always returns.

Could it be the FOG setting in?

Let's look again (emphasis mine):

Thinking more clear today. dh and I talked last night. united on fact that dd cannot be in our home right now. Hoping she goes to meet with housing counselor - continue to let go of this today.

... .  

I have to shelter my heart and slowly work through my own process to grieve all this. And keep myself physically safe.

... .  

Know in my heart that must take a no contact break with DD for myself. T suggested to start with 3 months. dh will need to step up if she needs anything from the house -... .  

I cannot function in all aspects of my life when consumed by fear.

... .  

Hard to stop my thinking of how this no contact will look, feel, be managed. I believe supervised contact with gd may work out as long as I am not there -- and maybe dh too. Have to practice patience for this process to evolve. I can breath better with this plan. Perhaps can find the peaceful place inside to be more mindful. First step in being kind and loving to myself. Being more loving with gd and dh. Allowing others in community to reach out to DD.

Is this the message of your wisemind, or am I reading it in?

Let us know, how it's going... .  

Thinking of you qcr, will pray for your family and for your dd.   

[js friend]

Wishing you continued strength qcarolr  

[mggt]

Dear qcr,  Keeping you in my prayers.  You have been through so much .  I think a break from d will help you, although we never stop worrying when they are with us and when  they are not.  Always remember you have done EVERYTHING to help her.  Hold on to your gd tight and try and concentrate on you gd and husband.  Sending you hugs  

[qcarolr]

What a hard day today. Thank GOD dh was with me all the way. He gets the level of fear now that I have had the past few weeks.

DD starting texting yesterday - alternately asking for some more motel days with apologies for her behavioirs followed by shifting the blamce in more sublte ways to me -- the "if you had" "then i could have".

Dh and I went to breakfast and wrote a plan to offer for her to be in our house - she said she would agree in text last night. Well, first words out of her mouth "first you guys need to take this trash out" which dh started doing and I said - why do we need to do this?  It digressed from there. Her bfM was hiding out under the covers during this exchange. We offered to put excess stuff in car to take home. She said "i need access to my stuff". so we said - fine we will rent a small storage unit and be back in an hour. Walked out to her loud voice.

Rented unit - picked her and M up - took their stuff to unit - stopped to get replacemnt phone ordered for DD (hers would not charge) - Dh bought her a bigger backpack with advice of bfM for living on street - bought burger - then dropped then near a friend's apt. building. DD was so close to assaulting me again - bfM looked very shocked and could not understand her anger when we had done all this for them today.

Drove away -- I got in driver side backseat because DD was blocking my front door.

Gotta go take dogs on walk. be back

qcr

[qcarolr]

DD26 has moved inside herself and I pray for her to stay safe tonight. Hopeful her friend M will stick with her through this. They have been through a lot together as friend/bf/friend/bf... .  for past 5 years in their homeless 'clan' and at our house. So with me out of her zone to battle externally maybe she can come to a place to accept some help for the internal chaos she is sharing with me. I know she wants me to save her from this scary place - I have offered to her that I do not have what is needed this time. So very scary - more scary then the raging but perhaps a necessary step on her treacherous path.

She needs residential treatment -- longterm. I do not imagine she would ever do this voluntarily. And it needs to be mental health focused, not addiction focused.  M did say to me today, as we unloaded stuff a the storage unit, that she has gotten bad since she started that Vyanse rx from her pdoc. It was prescribed based on a 10 minute ADHD scale she did for the NP (nurse practioner - no MD available to see patient's directly at county mental health center). This is same reaction she had to stimulants starting when she was age4 and put on ritalin. The pdoc just refused to believe there was a connection. After a summer off meds between 3rd and 4th grade - the best summer ever - and agression apparent within 2 days of starting before school began confirmed this for me. So we took her off without pdoc permission. Do I call the clinic and tell them this?

I need to share these texts from DD and my replies. I need help with getting myself into a validating state before I talk to her again. If anyone has any ideas in the next couple hours that would be helpful.

DD: Please answer to talk to night  I love u guys a lot but feel so betrayed at the same time I'm concerned and conflicted. I would never hurt u on purpose. I am really wanting n trying to find my way but I feel totally unprepared for life and adulthood is feraking me out cuz I don't know anything

Me:  We love u and r puzzled how to help u find ur way right now. Can i call us after i get gd to bed? is 10pm too late?

DD:  I think that's fine I'm just so unable to do all the details in the daly life I'm worried about myself and how I can do things.

Me:  Have u ever been able to be this open with someone like T? i try my best to help u. Maybe right now u need more than I can give?

This T is at the drug/addiction counseling center court ordered for her DWAI probation. She has gone to 3 appts. since Jan that I know of and each time said to me "I don't have anything to talk to her about".  Such a dense forest of denial protects my girl so much of the time. She is scheduled to go every 2 weeks to this individaul treatment plus the 2 hours of weekly class plus the 2 times a week UA's. I haven't been asked to fund the UA account since December, so I know she is not doing these. Her PO seems to give her endless "last chances".

She doesn't need to be in jail, but maybe that would be a route to mental health care if she just loses it in jail. Or they would just think she is being defiant and put her in lock up. She does not want anyone to know about her learning disability - fears of be called stupid or retarded or treated as such. She barely acknowledges she has PD.

All I can do I try to keep myself in a calm energy and mindful place tonight. Gd is not settling for bed - and dh is feeling neglected with me at my computer. Guess I will go for now. Thanks for the warm loving thoughts and prayers.

qcr  

[peaceplease]

Oh my, qcr!  I haven't been around here much.  I glance every now and then real quick.  I never have the energy to post.  But, I felt really bad reading your posts.  I am sorry about your dd. 

My dd was close to having a meltdown.  I narrowed it down to her taking Wellbutrin.  The Seroquel was wiping her out and she has been gaining weight.  She is still taking the Seroquel, as she says that she is dependent on it.  She said the wellbutrin helped with her appetite, but wasn't worth the way it made her feel.  She was very angry while on it.  She told me that she wanted to throw something.  I noticed how mean she was and kept my gs while she was so irritable.  After discontinuing the Wellbutrin, she lost the intense anxiety. 

Has your dd taken a Vynase holiday?  Has she even considered the possibility that the Vynase may be making her anxiety worse? 

I am so sorry, qcr.  You are in my thoughts and prayers.   

 

peaceplease

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[vivekananda]

Hi qcr! You sound calm in the face of this ... . I expect you are hurting badly though, I know I would be. But we do need to care for ourselves and accept and be more relaxed, don't we? A clear head and a wise mind... .  

If it were me, I think I would speak to the person who medicated your dd and explain the situation. Or email them, so it is in writing. Yes they will tell your dd, but this is her health we are talking about and in your opinion this medication is having an adverse reaction (and I suspect you are right).

Re the conversation. I would revert to a validation only conversation and try to get her to come up with solutions to the problems. This could be a 'teaching opportunity' as lbj might say. I am sure dd knows the answers to what she could do. It is blatantly obvious to us isn't it? So, remember Lundberg's piece about how to ask the questions to come up with the answers... .  what is the current situation? what is there for you to give you support? What can you do to fix this? I am not so good on these questions, but I think you would be fine.

It always comes back to basics doesn't it? I hope this gets to you in time.

Cheers,

Vivek      

[qcarolr]

I continue to wonder if its taking the stimulate or running out of it   she started asking me about refills week ago. She needs appointment get this and I gave her to appointment line number with the bus pass. Gave her the number again in stuff at motel. I have resigned as life coach whether she accepts or not.

Today text to come home for shower and to see her "babies" ie. Gd and dogs. Ok. Then no word for two hours. So we set time limit which passed then got on with our day. Feels like manipulation to make us feel bad for her sore feet and knees carrying her bigger backpack for street living. I have no sympathy.  She is ok and most likely having fun on this nice day. So maybe she can come shower tomorrow and get clean clothes. Expressed desire to see her "babies" is mostly to tug my heart.

These babies are in my loving continuous care... .  gd and two dogs.

Dh and I are feeling stronger today. Had mots of fun putting new hammock swing in our big tree. We all took a spin with laughter. Then got free mulch from the city yards to put under it instead of mud.

One day at a time.

Qcr  

[qcarolr]

Allowed DD to come to the house today to shower and do some laundry - eat - sleep. She tossed a few barbs out in direction that I am deserting her. Main reply tried to ask validating questions about specific things and how I could help - the limits on my help stated in a positive "what I can do" way. I also was very clear a couple times that I was not taking any of her bullying bahaviors anymore - as I turn and walked away from the little arrow. She did not have a comeback to the bullying comment.

Told her we would put a tub of some of her clothes in the storage unit so she had access to them from bus in city. The storage gate is at a bus stop. And close to the homeless shelter. Even if it is closed for overnight until next October, they are open daily from 6am-8am for showers and case worker contacts. There is always a free dinner somewhere in town withing easy walk of city bus stop. There are free clothes thrift stores - she brings home so many clothes that are stacked in piles. Almost a clothing addiction!

Then she was packed up and ready for dh to give her a lift back to the city - we agreed up front we could do this for her.

I also told her I would call Tuesday to swap her phone that is being replaced under warranty for bad charge connection. And she can come back on Thursday if she wants to visit. It is important for her to have some access to our home to avoid legal issues with eviction. I talked to a lawyer - she has "tenancy at will" from this being her main address for 2 years, her stuff is here, her mail comes here. We do not want to go through the court eviction process unless absolutely necessary. This would add unneeded complications to her already complicated legal history. We will do an eviction if it becomes necessary and have told her this.

After she left tonight I had one of those  moments. I think this is really about her being a grown up and our value of her not having a man living with her in our home. We have allowed this with lots of anger and resentment for a long time - all justified as a way to help DD feel less empty and alone. And it temporarily relieved us of our guilty feelings about not wanting to be the primary relationship in her life. She felt very isolated in our home without a friend there.

I had started giving this message to DD and bfM after Christmas when he was cycling down. Tough time with FOO for him over holidays. Realized I was not his parent, and this was not my responsibility to help him manage. When I turne up the heat on them finding a place to be together that was not in a gf's parents basement (which is a long term pattern for him with previous gf's), he finally left. Then lots of cycling in and out of DD's life. And she was vicious in her vengence on him for the breakup. Then when they were friends again, I became the enemy and she kept bringing him to the house insisting he could stay the night. We knocked on the door 45 minutes before the last bus back to city. It finally evolved to the polcie epipsode. He still was there a couple times during the day.

Too many words -- I have lost track of the purpose of all this story. Let me try to be more concise. Our value, dh and I, is that adult that want to be together need to find their own place to made that happen. Make the commitment to building the r/s seperate from lots of other people. As a long term homeless person, M is not willing to do this. And he is actually happy that DD has to be with him on the streets. He did not like being in our home - that was pressure from her. So she can choose to be with M, or be in our home. And now that we have pushed this choice for her -- she could not choose -- maybe things can get unstuck and move in a new direction.

The other part is realizing I have allowed myself to be bullied by DD for the past 21 years. Since she was about 6. And she had total control in our family - dh and I had ceded it to her to try and calm her raging. We were so inconsistent as parents and resitant to outside advice. And I was so unstable in my bipolar at that time searching for meds. that would work.

Gd7 has started bullying us too. Mimic her mom. This is what has really gotten my attention. If gd is to stay in our home - and this is the most important value of all - we have to take back control of our home. And we have to do this from a place of strength in love with tools of knowing our values, structuring boundaries around those (and these have changed in past week), and treating everyone with greater respect and generally validating environment.

It will not be perfect - we will keep working to better each day. And DD has to not live here even if she can visit. If her words or actions tip even in the slighest away from repectfulness, she can leave. We are providing her a monthly bus pass, stoage unit, cell phone, and small items for personal care. We still can show our love in these practical ways and protect our home enviroment.

I will let you know how it goes.

qcr   

[vivekananda]

gee qcr you sound like you are trying so hard to be strong in your resolve. Isn't it interesting that a  moment is something that you've also known all along? But I think it is an indication of a paradigm shift in thinking nonetheless. Hold on to that 'new' knowledge and investigate it thoroughly to help deepen your resolve to do what is best for all of you.

We all need to encourage independence in our children, we can't be their protectors, they need to learn to accept responsibility for themselves and the consequences of their actions. They do have to stand on their own feet - and while we can support them, and help them up when they fall, we can't do the standing for them.

I would like to tell you to not grieve for the mistakes you have made in the past. While it is good to recognise where you went wrong, I think it's important to accept that was past and this is the present. So yes, re visit values and boundaries - perhaps write them up and put them on the fridge so they act as a constant reminder. Or over the mirror in your bedroom... .  but don't waste time thinking about where you went wrong. Stay focussed, on task.

Yes, your beautiful gd needs your to help prevent her from being a troubled adolescent and sad adult. 

qcr, Cheers,

Vivek      

[qcarolr]

It really was accidental - I left my phone at home today wihile at work. There were several texts and calls from DD. So glad 2 hours got to pass without knowing. And now she has not answerd when I said - I have my phone now. Amazing how she can solve her own problem (getting groceries from store to wherever she is staying on bus - her food stamps came on her payment card today) when given a couple hours to figure it out without me.

And it is about me letting go too.

qcr  

[suchsadness]

Yes it absolutely is amazing how they can figure it out themselves!  My other daughter - 37 called today in a panic to tell me she needs help because her "baby daddy" got picked up this morning and she had to take my gd to daycare and pay extra money and her electric bill is due... .  Well she caught me at a very bad time where my dh had just told me about my dd35's obsessive texts all caused by me saying no about money.  Finally I said "I can't take this any more" in a way that she knew I really meant it!  All of a sudden she had to go.  Well I just got a text from her saying she got something figured out with her electric bill... .  no worries!  Funny how that works!

[pessim-optimist]

It will not be perfect - we will keep working to better each day. And DD has to not live here even if she can visit. If her words or actions tip even in the slighest away from repectfulness, she can leave. We are providing her a monthly bus pass, stoage unit, cell phone, and small items for personal care. We still can show our love in these practical ways and protect our home enviroment.

You know, qcr, this actually looks much more like a functional relationship of loving parents to an adult daughter (whether she is homeless or otherwise). You are able to separate where your responsibilities start and end, and your dd has a choice to either accept your help or figure out something else. AND she has the incentive to behave nicely to keep the privileges (positive reinforcement rather than punishment).

I think you have accomplished several things at once, not to forget about the peace in your own home!

... .  The other part is realizing I have allowed myself to be bullied by DD for the past 21 years. Since she was about 6. And she had total control in our family - dh and I had ceded it to her to try and calm her raging. We were so inconsistent as parents and resitant to outside advice. And I was so unstable in my bipolar at that time searching for meds. that would work.

... .  

Gd7 has started bullying us too. Mimic her mom. This is what has really gotten my attention. If gd is to stay in our home - and this is the most important value of all - we have to take back control of our home. And we have to do this from a place of strength in love with tools of knowing our values, structuring boundaries around those (and these have changed in past week), and treating everyone with greater respect and generally validating environment... .  

I think that looking into the past, and finding new understanding of what happened, can help us to be more effective in the present and future.

Have you had a chance - or interest - to check out the 'Boundaries' book?

(I found it to be one of my best resources. A sort of a 'bookend' to Lundberg - 'Boundaries' talk about how validation is important, and Lundberg on the other hand talks about how boundaries are important alongside of validation. Apart from all the books about BPD, these two are my best 'tools' books so far)

[vivekananda]

what's that boundaries book again pessi-O, I need it now ... .  

Viv   

[pessim-optimist]

ok, here goes:

"Boundaries - when to say yes, how to say no to take control of your life" by H. Cloud and J. Townsend

I've been praising this book to high heaven here, but still owe you guys the overview in the 'good reads' thread.

Part one - talks about what boundaries are, how they develop (good part about childhood development and boundaries, and where/when problems develop), and boundary problems and myths.

Part two - Boundary conflicts - about boundaries & boundary problems in our lives (family, friends, spouse, children, work, self, God)

Part three - Developing healthy boundaries (more on the how-to)

It is a christian book, so it has references to God and has some scriptural references, but in my opinion it can be easily ignored if you don't happen to be christian, and it holds so much invaluable practical tools, that I am going to buy it (so far I have hogged it and held onto it from the local public library  )

[vivekananda]

thanks there - I'm ordering it now (along with a copy of Lundbergs' validation book which I read from the library, but need my own copy!)

ta,

Vivek    

[lbjnltx]

It would be helpful if you ladies posted in the Book Reviews for these resources

Hundreds of people (non members) read those reviews.

Thanks for paying it forward.

lbjnltx