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Author Topic: BPD and Jodi Arias  (Read 1766 times)
parent of bpd daughter
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« on: May 04, 2013, 10:59:48 AM »

Hello all,

I have not been here for a while - so apologies if this has already been discussed - please send me the pointer.

I am between jobs right now and watching on tv this Arias murder trial and psychologist who diagnosed her as BPD.

My own BPDD - now in her 30's - is on Prozac, Abilify, and Welbutrin for last several years and marked improvement.

Prior to that she refused all medication and her violent aggression were very frightening - so much so that I filed a restraining

order on her because I really did - seriously - fear for my life and that of my 13 yo daughter - her sister.

For a time I thought she was on steroids or something making her so violent and just plain "creepy" - but now I think

it was just the BPD all along.

Could she have stabbed someone 29 times in a rage? Of course I say NO - but watching this person - Jodi Arias on trial - it

sends chills to see how her behavior is so much like my daugther's at times - disconnected - laughing at the most inappropriate

times (like when her father had just died), self centeredness - and the Lies! OMG the outrageous stories that she concocts in her

heard are so similar to this Arias person. And during the restraining order hearing (she rebutted it so we had to go to court) - she

lied under oath - lied about hitting me and many other things - and had GLEE - outright GLEE about it.

My question for all of you poor souls here like me - Do you think your BPDD's or BPD sons are capable of a murderous rage?

Should we be afraid for our lives? Do BPD's externalize their rage typically? or internalize ONLY?

What are your thoughts?

Thanks
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cleanandsober
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2013, 11:26:10 AM »

I have been following the Arias trial myself.  I think the biggest misfortune is the fact that her parents never got her any type of help when she was a teenager.  If they saw signs of her having problems beyond the "normal" it was their responsibility to get her the help she needed.  I saw the police interviews with her parents and they both talked about major red flags regarding Jodi's behavior.  Her parents NEVER got her any type of therapy which maybe could have prevented this terrible crime.  Yes, having a rage and losing control is one thing, but stabbing someone 29 times is another.  I heard the psychologists think she is also a psychopath.  I can't imagine what their families are going through.       
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qcarolr
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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2013, 02:18:47 PM »

My BPDDD26 has had vicous raging episodes most of her life -- 45 to 1 hour tantrums with kicking, hitting, biting etc. as a child til she screamed herself to sleep. Non of the meds or therapies had any impact other than side effects. The ADHD dx and treatment with stimulants pushed her aggressivness out the top as she came off of them. Now I still see this pattern with stimulant use - whether rx or street drug. Her clinic gave her a stimulant in Jan. based on DD's request and a 10 minute survey for ADHD. She has been sprialing down into an out of control aggressive state as the distress in her life has increased. Perhaps without this drug (Vyvanse) she would not have gotten so out of control that she is not allowed to live in our home or be alone with me right now. I am her target as she most often externalizes her dysregulated emotional states.

Even if the parents had looked for BPD treatment for Arias would not necessarily changed this outcome. And yes, there can be pressures on a pwBPD to push them into a psychotic state where this level of out of control violence could happen. Raging can reach a point of no return. I have not been following this case - part of my keeping the volume lowered strategy. So this is just my humble general opinion from personal experience.

parent of BPD daughter, the abilify, wellbutrin and prozac working for your D, that is awesome. It also might indicate that she also has bipolar or another Axis I condition. My D is helped by prozac when she takes it - for her symptoms of depression and anxiety. She still has most of the BPD criteria even when less depressed and anxious. She is still quick to flip even when she seems to be having a good day, sharing calmly what is going on in her life and I am able to be validating with her. After she flips, I am in a mode to protect myself until she flips back.

Mental illness can be so complex on an individual basis. And yes, we can impact treatment so much more before our kids become legal adults (for mental health treatment this often happens at 14 -16 age). Our kids may be more open to treatment as well at younger ages.

qcr
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Reality
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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2013, 03:35:26 PM »

Bottom line, BPD is a very serious psychiatric illness.  It is easy to judge, but honestly, if anyone would have told me what my life would be like for the last 9 years, I would never have believed it.  I still can't believe it.

Reality
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suchsadness
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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2013, 04:13:26 PM »

From my experience  - I was concerned about my ddd35's moodiness and tried to get her help several times.  The outcome... .  sit in the chair, arms crossed, and say absolutely nothing.  She was/is the most stubborn and ornery person I have ever in my life met.  She has been on a rampage for the last week because she needs money, and says she would rather "suffer in silence" than ask for help.  This is how she has been her entire life - will NOT tell anyone about anything, then blame them for not helping her or protecting her... .  and many times what we were suppose to protect her from is lies.  So, if Jodi had any of these tendencies, then is it fair to blame the parent
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vivekananda
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« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2013, 06:43:09 PM »

A 35 yr old Australian woman has recently been released after serving 4 years in jail for murdering her husband (she repeatedly stabbed him). It was published yesterday in a newspaper here (The Good Weekend magazine of The Age newspaper). The woman is very intelligent, personable and 'blames' her childhood trauma. It is a classic BPD story ... .  and yes she was diagnosed as BPD. The husband seems to have been a narcissistic type and it was obviously not a healthy relationship. Her mother died early, her father remarried and when she became too difficult delivered ultimatums and she took off at a very young age. He was obviously out of his depth and 20 years where were the supports? They weren't there for me, I don't know why they would have been there for him... .  The father is painted as the villain in this story and I feel so sad for him as he would have read this yesterday and have to cope with it all again. The young woman is in therapy but I don't see the effects of that in the article. She claims she cannot recall doing it and loves her husband still, she talks as if she would have been trying to kill herself not him... .  

So, it happens. All the more important to work on our relationships with our pwBPD.

cheers,

Vivek    
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pessim-optimist
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« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2013, 10:46:20 PM »

Hi all,

yes, there is a discussion about Jodi Arias in the Senior Lounge.

Here is the link if you are interested:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=193821.0

PessiO
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« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2013, 11:21:02 PM »

These kind of questions make me feel like we are trying to make the pwBPD the villain. I think there are a lot of people without BPD committing terrible crimes like jodi... .  my dd is capable of violence but I do not think she is capable of murder... .  
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2013, 10:09:59 AM »

Oh wow, never heard of that trial, sounds awfull.

One thing I think it that pwBPD would rather hurt them selves than anyone else.

My dd has never been violent, she would go out of her way not to hurt anyone. So Maybe this persons diagnosis was wrong maybe she had BPD along with something else.

What about psychosis, that comes along with BPD, so who knows. That is why we better look after all these people better than what we are doing. I do certainly not mean us, I mean in UK, anyway, clinicians. They are not good at listening to us.

I see people with mental health issues just wondering the streets, talking to themselves, looking dirty and a mess.  The \nhs is not looking after them.

We have had a few incidents recently on the news, "Man with mental health problems stabs 15 year old on bus" things like that. Unacceptable I say.
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« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2013, 11:14:00 AM »

I have been watching the trial too. I didn't have to wait for the Psychologist to get on the stand. I diagnosed her in December after seeing her on 48 hrs, before the trial even started. This is a pwBPD that denies there is anything wrong with her.

I do not blame the parents. Everyone knows how this illness  manifests itself in the teen years, and Jodi left home at age 17. When you are busy working and have a large family, in the day to day it doesn't just pop into your head that gee, she might be seriously ill. Jodi went completely NC with her parents for ten years.

I don't think my dd could ever kill someone, she hurts herself more often than she threatens people. My cousin works with pw Mental Illness in a Forensic Hospital and she has told me she is afraid for me because of the number of people there that have BPD, and knowing what they have done.

I don't fear for my life, I fear for my daughters' life, a lot.

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vivekananda
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« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2013, 05:52:45 PM »

I do think that just like there are degrees of severity in chronic physical illnesses eg asthma, some have it mild, others get it very bad - so it is with BPD.

Put a bad asthmatic in a bad environment and you get a dramatic effect. Put a severe BPD in a seriously non validating and personally dangerous environment and you can end up with dramatic results. Put a healthy person in a 'bad' environment' and the results won't be pretty either.

Vivek    

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« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2013, 04:01:53 PM »

Don't know if anyone is still following this but they found her guilty of first degree murder a few minutes ago... .  
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parent of bpd daughter
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« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2013, 08:28:31 PM »

"Looking at Jodi's face, I think this is probably the first time in her life she has ever been held responsible for what she's done, ever, and I think she's in shock," she said. Quoted from one of Travis's friends... .

As a mom of BPDD with violent tendencies - now 32 - my heart is permanently broken after I filed restraining order on her and called the cops when she attacked me the very day after her father died. The lack of accountability for crazy things had built up for 15 years - including once when she pushed her little sister's stroller into traffic. 2 therapists quit on me in the early days - saying she was "non-compliant" ... .

With my husband just dead suddenly of an aneurism - having her attack me and try to steal his wallet from my home - was the last straw - I broke - I had to save her little sister from this insanity and I was newly widowed with no family and no "friends" I called wanted to "get involved"

I - her Mother -  HELD HER ACCOUNTABLE and still today I pay the price ... . she slams me at every opportunity, "friends" can't believe I could have done that to "my own daughter" when she was "in shock" over her father's death, therapists treat me like I am a criminal - yet she is at least now on meds and WAS held accountable BY ME ... . Who knows if this Travis guy would be alive if Jodi's mother had also called police years ago - all I know is for a mother - you have to care more about humanity than your own child to do that. I wish I never had kids - this is unbearable still ... .  that decision I made  - to hold her Accountable - haunts me daily

Sorry I digressed - just scary how much this Jodi character is like my own BPD daughter - God help her and all of us.
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« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2013, 12:41:27 AM »

My words are inadequate to express my sympathy for you, parent of BPD daughter. I feel your distress at what you felt you needed to do and how absolutely traumatic it must have been for you. I cannot imagine the pain of such an experience, my heart goes out to you ... .  and to your dd and to your family.

Those people you call 'friends' wouldn't have a place in my home. I surround myself with people who are good for me, I would like to think you do the same. You need all the love and compassion the universe can give you. I hope your younger daughter is ok and I hope she is a strength to you.

Lots of best wishes,

Vivek          
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« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2013, 06:14:44 AM »

Dear parent of BPD ,  So sorry for all of your heartache with your d.  Terrible terrible disease we all here have similar stories hope it well help sending you love good energy and hugs     
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qcarolr
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« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2013, 03:02:32 PM »

Dear parent -- your distress is so real for me today.  I pray you can find the peace that is there for you. This was a good thing you did for yourself and your younger daughter. And yes, it will always hurt, the retaliation from BPD D may never end. Do you still have RO? How do you hear of the abuse your D pours out on you for doing the most reasonable thing you could in getting the RO. I am so sorry there is not more support to surround you with this hard choice.

In late 2009 my DD blew up in our home with my little gd there and the police had her leave with a friend. I had reached the end of my tolerance. Later that night her bf attacked her, attempting to finalize their breakup -- she was in his home. They both were arrested on assault - she fights back agressively. I got an RO to protect both gd and myself. DH chose not to participate RO. I asked judge for contact by letter, phone, text. I just could not let go all the way. I had custody of gd, and felt driven to keep a r/s going with DD and gd. Things worked their way to a seemingly better place - she returned home after 20 months homeless -- and now she is out again.

We have not yet had to get RO or do formal eviction. I am not crying continously -- this is too distressing for gd7. But I am still in a lot of pain, almost unbearable. I am so grateful for all my friends who so understand here at bpdfamily.com. And I have put effort into building a support network around me. Dh and I are working more as a team, I have support from people at gd's school, and I have a new T and friends in my small group at a new church. This support team helps me so much to tolerate the distress of what I need to do to take care of myself and the others in my family.

I can only pray the DD can come to a place to accept some of the responsibility for her homelessness and choose treatment to manage her actions so she can be in our home - at least for a visit.  Most likely she will never forgive me. I have to be willing to take that risk -- for my sanity and survival and for gd's.

qcr    
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