Cause and Effect

[mary_sunshine]

Well, I'm back on this board because for the moment I am back with my UBPDBF, who left me after I had decided to try and make it work. 

So, here's a question. Has anyone experienced a BPD person drawing ridiculous cause and effect conclusions with a lot of routine things that happen? I just had my UBPDBF storm out of the room and go to bed because I was not taking him seriously about his idea that his chest cold, which had been better during the day, suddenly has gotten much worse because he ate cereal. He recalled that earlier in the day he ate something and felt worse, and made this brilliant deduction that it must be some common ingredient. He did not like my telling him that a cold can get a little better or worse during the course of the day without some outside force being the cause. He puts all kinds of dietary restrictions on himself and is convinced the foods he avoids make him very sick; and other foods, that he must eat daily, protect him from getting sick. I think he has OCDPD as well as BPD. Any thoughts?

[jrx]

I'm not diagnosing anything. I'm also not aware that BPD is related to paranoia, etc. I can tell you, however, that invalidating how a person feels about their body and what might be happening with isn't an open-minded approach, even for non-BPDs.

Regarding the cereal, would you please consider that milk and sugar (common ingredients) cause mucus build up?

www.healthguidance.org/entry/14588/1/Foods-That-Cause-Mucus-Build-Up.html

If you think his food regimen is silly, that's your right. But no one knows their body better than the person living in it. And people have the innate ability to crave and avoid foods that benefit or harm them nutritionally or personally. For example, I don't eat seaweed and some other foods because they cause me to become depressed.

You might consider asking yourself whether dietary habits are the part of your relationship that you want to focus on. I understand and acknowledge you believe them to be part of a deeper issue.

But if you decide to take a step back, is it really having a material impact on your life, or does it just bother you? And if it's the latter, is it worth invalidating a person who is extremely sensitive to perceived criticism? Words like "not taking him seriously", "brilliant deduction", and "telling him" are flags that represent potential invalidation landmines.

Maybe there's a more compassionate approach that will help bring the two of you to a more sustainable and peaceful relationship (if the relationship is what you decide you want)?

[VeryFree]

My stbxBPDw became quite extreme in her thoughts about food and other products. She really dug into that deeply and really thought that a lot of problems came from those products.

I never invalidated her about that: I don't know the facts, listened to her theories and let her do her things. Even went with them to a certain amount.

Drew a line when I was accused of wanting to poisson her and shorten her life when I used an air-refreshener in the bathroom. 

[waverider]

Classic invalidation by trying to offer solutions to a problem. The issue or topic is not the cause of the drama, it is the dismissal (even if only perception) of his line of thinking.

My partner was diagnosed OCD for 20+ years as before I stumbled across BPD. Major point with OCD is that the obsessions are consistent and debilitating on specific issues, rather than switching from the latest impulse fad or idea.  That is the view rarely changes even over years.

Going into extreme depths over diets etc is a BPD behavior along with hypochondria, it is part of looking for, and needing to blame, something. There is no room for maybes and alternatives.

We may think certain things may combine to contribute to possible causes. That does not compute in the BPD mind, it has to be this or that, black or white. If what you propose is right then what they propose must be wrong. This triggers conflict and denial. You throw you hands in the air with frustration and give up. To them that then spirals into confirming that you think their view is worthless. You may be annoyed by the pointless circular argument but they just see you annoyed at them

[LetItBe]

While you certainly have a right to your opinion and beliefs, he is the one living in his body, and his feelings and sensations are very real.

I will say that dairy is phlegm-producing, and for me, dairy milk in particular causes almost instant congestion.  I rarely drink dairy milk because of this, other than a tiny bit of creamer in my one espresso in the morning.  It really helps when I'm fighting a cold or allergies to cut back on cheese, too.  If I eat cereal, I use soy milk. 

I wonder what would happen if you validated him and asked him what he thinks would be good to eat instead of what's bothering him?  I wonder if he'd be open to trying soy or almond milk?

[mary_sunshine]

There was no dairy involved. And this is just one example of how he blames something arbitrarily for whatever is going on.

And I was venting on here because I thought this was a safe, nonjudgmental place to do so. And I was curious if this was something people could relate to. I have always been patient and kind to him, but unless I back his random notions 100%, he gets mad.

[jrx]

It's not easy to put friendly inflection into writing, so if for some reason you felt this was a less safe place to be, and I was a part of it, then let me apologize. In the end, while I only speak of my own experiences, I was worried for you.

I'm no expert, but after being exposed to a situation repeatedly, I easily lost patience with my pwBPD. And unfortunately, the onus was on me, the non-BPD. The more repeatedly I heard "crazy talk" the more chance I had for invalidating the pwBPD, and in a bigger way.

My concern for you was that there's genuine information that can be used to pad the conversation for some of the more "out there" things. e.g. "I found some research about x, maybe you can talk to your doctor about y." When I brought them back to a trusted source, or at least someone they haven't painted black consistently, it helped validate them while at the same time redirecting their thoughts.

My second worry was that it was quite possible you meant what you said, in which case, there was a good chance a world of hurt was in the cards. I bet we've all been there at one point. And the natural empathy I've found from people here on the boards indicates they would like to see others in a similar situation not go through what they have to.

So given what you just wrote, I completely understand your frustration. I have tried to "logic" my exBPDgf before and I've found I experience less pain by presenting several paths, then describing what they can expect and the benefits / trade-offs of each choice. Of course, there are many others on this board with more wisdom about the subject than I have.

[waverider]

I have always been patient and kind to him, but unless I back his random notions 100%, he gets mad.

This is always a delicate balancing act, look more closely into the lessons regarding the use of SET. This is a way of supporting their ideas, showing you are taking them seriously, without necessarily being backed into agreeing with them, but also not invalidating at the same time. It allows you to then centre the issue by putting in your 2 cents worth from your view point, again without dismissing theirs.

It is hard to do at first, but eventually once you get the hang of it, it will take their defensive edge off and become less triggering. Wont always work, but it will improve things.

Always keep in mind that it is the process of inadvertently invalidating their opinions that gets them riled rather than the specific topic at hand

[bruceli]

BPDw will not let us use dial hand soap because it might cause cancer but her smoking and drinking is fine.

[bruceli]

Well, I'm back on this board because for the moment I am back with my UBPDBF, who left me after I had decided to try and make it work. 

So, here's a question. Has anyone experienced a BPD person drawing ridiculous cause and effect conclusions with a lot of routine things that happen? I just had my UBPDBF storm out of the room and go to bed because I was not taking him seriously about his idea that his chest cold, which had been better during the day, suddenly has gotten much worse because he ate cereal. He recalled that earlier in the day he ate something and felt worse, and made this brilliant deduction that it must be some common ingredient. He did not like my telling him that a cold can get a little better or worse during the course of the day without some outside force being the cause. He puts all kinds of dietary restrictions on himself and is convinced the foods he avoids make him very sick; and other foods, that he must eat daily, protect him from getting sick. I think he has OCDPD as well as BPD. Any thoughts?

Also part of the feeling equals fact for them.  Right?

[waverider]

Often impulsive decisions come first. The reasoning and excuses for those decisions are often made up afterwards, no matter how illogical or flimsy.

There is no point in trying to follow the logic, as there often is non. The actions are commonly not a result of the reasons given.

[SadWifeofBPD]

My BPDH is a huge hypochondriac and paranoid.

For awhile, I would question his claims that he had various "illnesses" or "injuries".  Then I realized that it just caused him to rage because I was questioning him.  then I started just pretending to be very concerned and urged him to see his doctor about whatever his latest imagined illness/injury was. 

It was much better having a doctor keep telling him, "no you don't have X."  "no, you don't have Y."  "no, you don't have Z." 

[waverider]

It was much better having a doctor keep telling him, "no you don't have X."  "no, you don't have Y."  "no, you don't have Z." 

My partner is so good at this she normally gets away with telling the docs whats wrong with her. The prescriptions keep piling up, the illness never cures or morphs into  something else so she doesnt have to come off what tabs she is on. Then it is a case of illness due to compounding side effects of too many tabs, which are then treated with more meds and the cycle keeps going.

She will self mutilate to get painkillers if neccesary. She has bitten most of her lips off in the past to get oxycodene painkillers, and now is disfigured. Long term abuse of anti inflammatories (ibruprophen and voltaren) resulted in emergency surgery for burst stomach ulcer.

She has just had a masectomy for breast cancer and post surgery is now in full addict mode again with oxycodene. Taking every med she can get her hands on and making herself way sicker. Chemo starts tommorrow for 6 months. Have no idea what is going to happen when the side effects of that start to kick in.

Not sure of long term survival odds as she is on a path of self destruction and being. Seems to me her own behavior is going to really shorten the odds dramatically. Again the logic and excuses are nonsensical.

I know I am totally drained with it at the moment