nose rings and other peircings

[jellibeans]

My dd15 wants her nose pierced... . she would also like her belly and her lower back. She needs her hair cut too... . she wants this all right now... . as soon as possible. She also likes to tell me about the tattoo she would like to get on the back of her neck.

Do you think all the piercing is just another form of SI? She has pierced her own ears... . she has 10 in one ear and 3 or 4 in the other. She pierced her own nose a year ago or so but she was on the volleyball team and you couldn't wear jewelry... . she so gave up on having it.

She is badgering me to go this week to get it done and I am having a hard time talking with her... . I tried to tell her we will talk later when she started to get angry but she will not listen. I have tried to validate her feelings but still until she gets what she wants she is going to carry on. I am looking for some help in how to disfuse this whole thing. This week I have family visiting... . I have many doctor appointments and also getting ready for my older daughters graduation on Friday... . and a huge party I am throwning on Sunday... . yet she  wants the focus on her... . it is very sad but this it truly what she is seeking... . my dd needs things to make her happy... . it is a bottomless well... . any advise would be appreicated

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[momontherun]

Sounds so much like my dd - she wanted a belly ring, nose ring, eyebrow ring,  a tattoo and a few other things I don't remember off hand. I literally envisioned a walking pin cushion on her face with all the various piercings but didn't tell her that. I did tell her it sounded really cool and I can see how she would want all those things as the various jewelry is like the ultimate expression of self with so much to choose from however, I couldn't allow her to do that yet. She demanded to know why and I explained because for those we have to go to a tattoo and piercing parlor as they won't do them at stores even though they do piercings, they only do the basic lobes. To legally get it done at a tattoo and piercing parlor she has to be 16 with parental consent otherwise they run the risk of lawsuits. This satisfied her for the time however, she did check to ensure I was telling her the truth. Then whenever we went to a place selling jewelry and does piercings she had to find out if they could to bargain with me some more however, they told her the same thing. She started to get really upset about this so I met her half way and told her we could get some magnetic and clip on jewelry to see if this is what she really really wants. She agreed and the piercing phase lasted a week before she was ready to move on but still insisted the real thing would be better. So I made her a deal, when she turns 16 and has the money from allowance an babysitting to buy it, I will take her to do it... . I know she is going to hold me to it and thats ok. I'd rather take her than find she's done it herself which could be disastrous as a couple of her aunts found out the hard way... . at least I bought some time so she can really think it through. Every once in awhile i'll see a picture of what I think she is talking about... . some innocent and artfully done with others glaringly obvious and extreme which opens up conversation to how it makes that person look and what would you think if they worked in various settings like that - just to keep her thinking.

Now the tattoo thing went similar except I advised her to really think about the one she wants as to me, it should have meaning as it will be there for the rest of your life then went over what each of the 4 I have mean to me. I did buy her some body art pens to try different 'tattoo's' in various places to really think it through and experiment. She has so many scars on her arms, I am considering paying for this myself to get rid of that constant reminder - she doesn't know this nor can I really afford it as even a small dime sized one could cost 150.00 depending on the artist and how detailed they are... . this is definitely something you don't want to skimp on.

I have thought at different times, this could be a version of self harm especially seeing some with them all over their bodies as well as, screw in prosthetic's ((shudder)) or it could be just more self expression though more permanent than a haircut and die job - its so hard to tell. I do know that where there is a will, there is a way so I would find some way to compromise.

[lbjnltx]

"Mom, can I get my eyebrow pierced?"

"Yes, when you are 18 you can pierce your eyebrow."

"Mom, can I get a pet snake?"

"Sure, when you have your own home that you pay for you can have whatever legal pet you want."

"Mom, can I dye my hair black?"

"What causes you to want to dye your beautiful blonde hair black?"

"I think it will look good on me with my blue eyes."

"You do have beautiful blue eyes and people with black hair and blue eyes are usually stunning, I agree."

"So can I?"

"Hmm, let me talk it over with Dad."

"What did Dad say?"

"He said it would make him sad to see you dye your hair black."

"It's my hair though."

"Yes, I know.  We will allow you to dye it brown and see how we all feel about it."

"Thanks mom!"

"Mom, can I get a tattoo?"

"I guess so, when you are 18 and can pay for one yourself.  I hope that you take all things into consideration before making that choice... . like... . how it will affect marketing yourself for jobs, how you will feel about it when you are 50 years old and if it will forever reflect who you are since they are mostly permanent."

"Mom, can I stay overnight at boyfriends house?"

"NO!"

"Why not?"

"It is not appropriate."

"Why don't you trust me?"

"I do trust you.  I don't test the limits of that trust.  16 year old girls spending the night at their boyfriends' house  is outside of our family values."

"That doesn't mean they are my values."

"I understand. We will keep enforcing our value based boundaries just the same."

"Mom, when I get my driver's license will you get me a new car?"

"A new car would be nice wouldn't it.  I think that initially driving the car we have for you will be the plan.  Perhaps in a few years we can look at getting a different car for you to drive."

"That sucks."

"I know."

[jellibeans]

I am good on the tattoo... . I told both my daughters they had to wait until they were out of college... . as long as I am supporting them finacially they will need to wait... . if they choose to get one before that time they will not get any money from me.

I told my dd that when she was 16 she could get a belly ring only if her behavor was good etc... . the last few months have been crazy so she should be able to wait until her birthday but she doesn't agree with me and wants it now. Not the belly ring that we discussed but the nose ring. My older daughter also wants her nose pierced but has agreed to wait until after her graduation to do it.

I have let her dye her hair... . first time was a henna that washed out... . she didn't like it and that soon past... . then a few months later another color... . she did it herself and it turned out terrible... . I had to fix it or she would look like a pumpkin. She now would like her hair dyed blonde again but I think she should get it highlighted instead.

It is hard to keep up with all my dd's demands and last night she was just beside herself and pretty angry... . we will see how she is this morning... . she goes to her T this afternoon and I am going to send her an email.

It is funny how these girls all seem to be so much the same... . I am hoping she is in a better mood and I will hold my ground and see how she does. I am willing to compromise but this week is just so busy with grad and end of school and family visiting... . I have tried to explain but she will not except my reasons to wait... .

[griz]

jellibeans:  DD has had many of the same requests over the past few years.  I remember speaking with her T about it and he gave me this advice. When ever DD wants something that I am not happy about put time between in your corner.  Here is an example of our conversations:

DD:  Can I get my eyebrow Pierced

Me:  Hmmm, I am not sure if I like that, I have to think about it

DD:  Can we go tomorrow

Me: I think I will need more time than that and I would like to talk with Dad about it

DD: well when will you know

Me:  I am not sure but right now I am not comfortable with it and if I have to make a quick decision I would probably say no.  Let me think about it for awhile

He told me to let her talk about it, talk about her reasons for wanting it and don't turn it in to an argument.  The more you argue the more she will focus on it.  He also told me in his experience if you can buy yourself 3 weeks of thinking time it will more than likely be something she is not so interested in anymore.  This has really worked. 

At 16 she wanted her nose pierced (her older sister had already done this at 18).  We kept the conversation open about it and then I really thought about it. I talked to my T about it and she said told me to compromise.  Maybe a small stud and no rings. She also pointed out that if DD got tired of it she could take it out and it would just close up.  I told DD that I thought about it and I was willing to compromise and let her get a small stud.  She was thrilled with this and in the end I realized it really wasn't a big deal.  She did keep it and this year she put in a small ring. The other day she told me she is thinking of taking it out, because it's annoying sometimes.  My answer, was just "I can see that it might be annoying, why don't you think about it". 

She has also a various times requested a tatoo.  Again I did not act alarmed but told her I would think about it.  She had one in mind but a few weeks later she decided on something else and then something else and so I pointed out to her that a tatoo is permanent and if her tastes change like they have over the past few weeks she would have been stuck forever with her first idea.  She periodically will bring up a new idea for a tatoo and I never make a big deal out of it.  I just say, "well I think you should give it some time to think about it".

Sometimes I think it is out of bordem, sometimes I think it is her trying to find where she fits in in life, sometimes I think it is just to see if she will get a rise out of me and sometimes I believe it is really something that she wants at the moment.  Someone once told me that they believed that piercings and tatoos were other expressions of SI so I brought this up to her T and she told me ABSOLUTELY NOT. 

I think the best advice is not to allow yourself to get to caught up in the small stuff.  Changing her hair color is really not a big deal if you think about it.  It might look good (DD went from light brown to very dark brown a few years ago and it looks great).  If it looked bad you can always go back and she learned a very good lesson two years ago when she went from light brown to super blond.  It damaged her hair so much that she had to go back to brown and it killed the ends of her hair.  She ended up having to cut her hair alot because her hair was breaking off from the damage.  She will never do that again.  I guess my point is nonpermanant things are not such a big deal in the scheme of things and the good part is that they are still asking us.  DD has a friend who has "no issues". However last week she went out and got herself a tatoo without even telling her mom.  She turned 18 and went and got herself the ugliest tatoo I have ever seen.  She knew her mom would never discuss this, it would be out of the question so she just went and did it.  Her mom is beside herself about it.  I used this as an example for DD and told her that I really appreciate that she talks to me about these things first.  I think having the lines of communication open are so important.

Could you tell DD that with everything going on right now, graduation and more, that you want to be able to really think about it and set a date to sit down and talk about it maybe right after everything else is over. By then it might be a mute point but she will feel heard.

Griz

[jellibeans]

This is my problem with dd... . I really don't mind the nose piercing or hair or anything... . I remember being young and I grew up in the punk age and half my head was shaved! The tattos I feel have to wait until they are older. I just feel they will regret it now if they do something. DD15 wants a cross on the back of her next which I find funny because she just told me last week sh no long believes in GOD.

It is her inability to wait... . I tried to tell her that things were really busy this week and I would like time to think and next week would be better for all of us... . she of course doesn't like this and starts with no one loves me etc... . I will try again to hold her off... . I feel this is her real problem... . so impulsive... . can't wait.

I will see what she says today... . I think I will tell her that I have a few jobs I would like her to do around the house to help me get ready for the party... . clean the blinds... . base boards... . and fans. If she does those things then I will give her money for the nose piercing.

Thanks for your advise... . I am sure I need to work on how I interact with her... . today is another day and I will try to keep that in mind. Momontherun, LBJ, Griz  

[BioAdoptMom3]

Mine is not 14 yet and wants all this stuff as well!  Playing softball for both rec and travel teams has helped as they cannot wear these things when playing.  One of the employees at a piecrcing shop in a mall around here talked to hear and explained that for kids under 16 who are still growing, body piercings are not a good idea.  He explained to her that it doesn't look right as they grow and change and she needs to wait.  He also told her that any reputable business will not piece anyone under 16, parental permission or not.  Maybe if you could take her to a reputable place and see if someone will tell her that, it might work. You could even call ahead and tell them what you need them to do.  If they are reputable they will tell her exactly that!  They do listen to others more willingly than they listen to us.

[Cici]

cut and paste from an earlier post cause I can't figure it out any other way:  This is from lbnj

Re: nose rings and other peircings

« Reply #2 on: Today at 06:33:07 AM »

Quote

"Mom, can I get my eyebrow pierced?"

"Yes, when you are 18 you can pierce your eyebrow."

"Mom, can I get a pet snake?"

"Sure, when you have your own home that you pay for you can have whatever legal pet you want."

"Mom, can I dye my hair black?"

"What causes you to want to dye your beautiful blonde hair black?"

"I think it will look good on me with my blue eyes."

"You do have beautiful blue eyes and people with black hair and blue eyes are usually stunning, I agree."

"So can I?"

"Hmm, let me talk it over with Dad."

"What did Dad say?"

"He said it would make him sad to see you dye your hair black."

"It's my hair though."

"Yes, I know.  We will allow you to dye it brown and see how we all feel about it."

"Thanks mom!"

"Mom, can I get a tattoo?"

"I guess so, when you are 18 and can pay for one yourself.  I hope that you take all things into consideration before making that choice... . like... . how it will affect marketing yourself for jobs, how you will feel about it when you are 50 years old and if it will forever reflect who you are since they are mostly permanent."

"Mom, can I stay overnight at boyfriends house?"

"NO!"

"Why not?"

"It is not appropriate."

"Why don't you trust me?"

"I do trust you.  I don't test the limits of that trust.  16 year old girls spending the night at their boyfriends' house  is outside of our family values."

"That doesn't mean they are my values."

"I understand. We will keep enforcing our value based boundaries just the same."

"Mom, when I get my driver's license will you get me a new car?"

"A new car would be nice wouldn't it.  I think that initially driving the car we have for you will be the plan.  Perhaps in a few years we can look at getting a different car for you to drive."

"That sucks."

"I know."


To Lbnj:

Do  you eve have bad advice? I say that with a healthy dose of scarcasm.  Your words ,your wisdom never fails to provoke my thoughts and soothe my hurt.  Even when I'm not seeking it. 

jellibeans-WOW you got a plate full.  I don't have anything more than love for you and please know somewhere in Jersey tonight I go to sleep with a prayer and many thoughts for you and your family.

[lbjnltx]

I hope I don't give bad advice

If I'm not sure, I state "maybe" or "perhaps" or write nothing at all.  I've been at this a long time now... . with a lot of great guidance from members here, therapists, rtc's and tons of books... . not to mention the "real life training" from my dd16! 

[jellibeans]

I appreciate everyones advise and support... . but I will say lbj has a good deal of wisdom and when she decides to write that book of hers I will be first in line to buy... .

After being at the T today things have changed a lot... . we started the session by sitting and discussing the nose piercing problem and asking for T to mediate a solution... . that quick turned into a discussion about one thing or another... . the discussion really went down hill fast and when she told me that she didn't feel welcomed home and that she felt I didn't talk with her when she first got home etc... . I told her T I had to leave... . I was just at my end and was crying too hard to continue... . an hours goes by and my dd comes out and tells me she will go to group on Wednesday (shocking because she had stated she didn't want to do that due to knowing two of the girls in that group) secondly she hugged me and told me she was sorry... . I told her I was too and started crying all over again. On the way home she told me she no longer wanted a nose ring... . she also asked me to make her a list of chores she can do to help me with the party... .

I don't know what the T said to her but she came out of the room a different person... . crisis averted... . tomorrow we meet with her P who she refers to as dickhead... . we will see how that goes... .

I am still wondering what happened and how T was able to reason with DD.

[heronbird]

Yes, sounds like my dd too. Maybe its a case of "If I just get a tattoo/piercing done I will feel better" but what ever it is, I dislike tattoos most of the time especially if they are dont to make one feel better.

So dd meets dh who likes doing tattoos and a few months later she has many tattoos and a few weeks after that she is now seeing if she can get them removed because she dislikes them now, haha

So sad because its like she has drawn all over herself and cant remove it.

She knows I hate piercings especially tounge and nose, she got it done anyway.

Well, there is nothing I can do, I tell her in a gentle way but I think, if she is going to do anything she will do it so what is the point of me keep saying I dont like it.

Now I just say, "Oh you like that do you, Im glad you are happy" or something like that.

Interestingly,

I asked her what will she do if her son wants all this stuff at age 13, would she let him? the answer was NO. Haha, Ill be sitting back watching that in 13 years and thinking, thank goodness its not my responsibility.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[inkling16]

We have these conversations, too. Piercings other than ear really gross me out, so when she asked for them, I told her no because it grossed me out. She said she could do them herself so she didn't really need my permission, and I just reiterated that I wouldn't be able to look at her if she had them. I have stuck with this position for a couple of years, and now she seems less interested in piercings. Her interest in tattoos is growing, and I expect that if she still wants them when she's 18 (and if/when she has the income to pay for them) she will be quite covered in them. I did pay for her to have one on her wrist, and I have promised another if/when she graduates from high school, but otherwise, I have made it clear that she's paying for any body ink she wants to have. Tattoos don't repel me the way piercings do, and some of them are gorgeous. The possibility of regretting them is not my problem.

Hair I don't care about. She can get it cut or dyed however she wants, although I won't pay for more than a standard shampoo and cut. At one point she was talking about shaving her head, and while I thought that was not a particularly good idea or a look that would suit her, I stuck with my position that I don't care what she does with her hair. So far she has not shaved her head.

In general, it seems as though if I express my position and don't change it, she generally becomes less extreme in her desires. If what I think is no longer an issue (because it's not going to change), it clears the way for her to see what she really thinks.

[heronbird]

You know, one or two of any of these things are ok and I could cope. But now she has them all over and they have not all been done properly as her dh did them he likes doing tattoos and has the equipment to do them with.

Now they both look silly with all their tattoos I mostly forget about them but its just when people say something about it then I think gosh yes they have really messed their bodies up. Dd keeps talking about getting them taken off, she hates them and she is only 19.