Update

[Mind]

Well, it's been awhile. Lots of ups and downs with visitation. He's tried to change the times, showed up looking for me, wanting the kids on my time.  We have court coming up and I heard stbexBPDx 'is taking me to court for more visitation.' Summer is usually when he is unemployed. I'm planning on the kids to be enrolled at a summer program and my L is aware.

Help! I would like to inform my L that the least visitation is what needs to happen. The case is now being moved to the integrated DV court. That should be a good thing, as I am still dealing with the injury. What can I expect for a summer schedule? Right now it's him every other weekend and one night for an hour and half.

[marbleloser]

Is there any reason he shouldn't be given more time with the kids?I don't know the details,just asking since you said he should have minimum.

Normally,it would be better for the kids to be with a parent,if possible, than in a summer program.

[Mind]

Long history... . Yes; he became physical with me in front of them. There is an OOp in place. He does not care to spend time with them. He has his parents doing the care on his time. He has tried changing the current schedule. He never cared about the kids while we were all together. They are very familiar with the program, teachers etc. I may also have a family member take a day and I may take one day off a week as well, but wasn't sure if I should mention this to the L.

[marbleloser]

I have a friend(female) who went through the physical violence with her H while the kids were there.Basically,since he wasn't a threat to the kids,there was no reason he couldn't get time with them.She got a protection order,but the judge saw no need for one with the kids.

So,keep that in mind.

If you can take a day a week off,do it.That's time spent with mom and shows that you're more interested in the kids than money.A family member is good too.

Nothing wrong with the kids being in a summer program and interacting with other kids,but using that as a reason that he shouldn't get them,won't gain much traction.

As a dad,I'd fight that on grounds that they're better off with a parent that can take them places,teach them things,bond with them,etc.,,You can bet his atty would too.

Also,if my kids were at a summer program,without a court order giving you primary custody,I'd be there getting them,because they couldn't stop me from doing it.

Do you have a court order naming you primary? There's more than one way to go about this.

[Mind]

No; custody hasn't been determined. I will advise my L of my flexibility within the week. I understand the part about if he isn't a threat to the kids. I have witnessed his behavior and the things he has said to them. I had tried to get a stay away OoP but it ended up being the nonoffensive. He doesn't handle the care of them on his weekends- family members do.

[marbleloser]

"He doesn't handle the care of them on his weekends- family members do. "

I know it's painful,but that won't matter.Who's the family member that watches them?

Does he live with them,or is it at another residence?

If he's not watching them,no one can stop you from getting them,even on his time.Parental rights trumps all without a court order.I played that hand a couple of weeks ago and won.You snooze,you lose!

[marbleloser]

Here's what I'm getting at.He's wanting more time with kiddos,but doesn't spend time with them when he's supposed to have them.

What better way to document that than to simply go get them?

He goes to court asking for more time and you tell the judge you've gotten the kids from gramps and granny,because "dad" wasn't around,and it's better for the kids to be with a parent who cares about nurturing them and wants to spend as much time with them as possible.

No court order means no rules.Just don't break any laws.

[mamachelle]

Is there any reason he shouldn't be given more time with the kids?I don't know the details,just asking since you said he should have minimum.

Normally,it would be better for the kids to be with a parent,if possible, than in a summer program.

I think camps and daycare are great for kids during the summer. As a working parent these are essential. These programs provide structure and other mentors and friends in kids lives.

Dad can still see kids even if they are in a program.

BPD parents are usually pretty bad at providing good consistent safe care. Daycare and camp can't cancel at the last minute or dump them with grandma or Sparkle13 unexpectedly.

[marbleloser]

"I think camps and daycare are great for kids during the summer. As a working parent these are essential. These programs provide structure and other mentors and friends in kids lives."

Things like that are pretty good for kids,but I'm looking at it from the court perspective.

You have a parent(dad) who's available for the summer(she stated he's normally unemployed at this time).He's wanting more visitation time,while (mom) wants to put them in summer program,because she has to work.The court could look at it as (dad) being able and willing to care for the children instead,or they could let it stand and dad pay half the expense.

Mom doesn't have a custody decree,so it'd be a chance I'd take.

I'd motion on grounds of PA and being able to care for the kids myself.May or may not win,but it would show that I was interested in having the kids.

[mamachelle]

Personally I would fight for summer programs full time then back off to half time and allow Dad to have kids at home on his days if granted. Generally these camps are part time for older kids and end with still weeks left in the summer. Preschools are more full time but generally flexible as well.

The programs help Dad as well as they reduce stress. BPD parents struggle with parenting bored kids.

Marbleloser,

I think you are great at playing  's advocate. Takeaway is Be prepared!

[marbleloser]

Here's the thing mamachelle,Dad is "suspected" of BPD.Without a formal diagnoses,it isn't going to mean anything in court.

What you and she see as "erratic behavior" is what his atty has told him to do.I almost guarantee it.

He's fighting for his kids,which women would cheer for if it were another woman.(Just stating the facts.It's the same way with men)

He's been physically abusive,but unless he has towards the kids,the court isn't going to raise much of a fuss about it,unless she filed charges.

High conflict divorce is a battle.I'm going through it as well and have used some of the same techniques he is.It's called asserting your parental rights instead of giving in.Both parents have equal rights to the kids without a custody order or decree.

[mamachelle]

marbleloser,

Ok. got it.

I am just a huge proponent of daycare and summer camps. I am a Non married to a Non. Parenting 6 kids. Dealing with 2 erratic and absent parents means daycare and afterschool and summer camps are like part of my lifeblood. My blood kind of boils when I hear someone say they would be better off with a BPD parent making promises to care for them or be there for them. I realize how the court looks at it but I think it's a good thing and I feel it's worth fighting for.

I am also a working mom and know that employers may not always be so flexible as mine is. What happens if Dad suddenly wants a long weekend off and now Sparkle13 has no care in place for her kids?

Daycare and camps are also an expense and if these are not provided for in the order over the summer then next year Dad may just decide he doesn't want to deal with the kids and wants Sparkle to pay for Camp.

Setting a precedent is important too in this case.

I think we are all on the same page. My concern is that yes, without an order Dad could try to dump the kids as easily as he could agree to take them.

He could put Sparkle's job in jeopardy and maybe that is his plan.

mamachelle

[Mind]

My proposals were denied. One was a mix of extra days, few days at school. The other was a daytime plan. Essentially he wants them to live with him full time. His L said why am I punishing him because I work?  I just want the kids in the best hands and I'm still not even comfortable with them in dad's care. The kids are very comfortable with school. There will be times when I take off too so how does that work? My job is very flexible in summer and I usually take time off. Again, his goal is not in the best interest of the kids, it's to traumatize me as much as possible. He looks like a super dad in front of the court. Based on the past this won't last. Never did.

[waverider]

Care need to be shown giving strong recommendations in cases like this, better to present options for the member involved. Only they get a real sense of the motives, subtle as they may be, behind these decisions. Assumptions of motives can easily trigger even worse tit for tat behavior with the kids stuck in the middle.

This makes it even harder to see our own subconscious motives.

I went through quite a traumatic separation and even though it was not BPD, it is so easy to subconsciously assume motives and trigger lash back behavior. Much of this was a result of pressure from "outside" opinions. Well meaning as that may be, it is often based on the venting of the person involved, which in itself is often biased as it is near impossible to be objective whilst in the middle of it.

I think it is important not to try to "convince" Sparkle13  of what to do. Better to present options and allow to Sparkle13 to pick through those options, as only she can see it from an inside perspective

What do the kids want? What makes them happy? Do they enjoy the time with Grandparents?

Camps should be seen as a treat not as a child care facility. Kids will know the difference.