Financial advice

[mother in law]

My son has recently divorced his wife who we strongly suspect is BPD. The apartment is sold and money ready to be split as per mediation agreement (65/35 in her favour as he could no longer argue with her). Her lawyer says to put it into a joint account (why if divorced? except to hide money from goernment welfare agencies?) and we (his parents have advised not to do this but to give her a cheque as she will not give her bank account no so he can direct credit. We feel he needs to cut contact (except to do with the child) and be involved with as little to do with her life as possible as she often lies and he may once again be caught up in her distortion campaigns and this could involve money. What do others think, is this sensble advice?

She also is on a single parents allowance from the government (the child is 10 so she should by welfare rules in this country (not USA) be working but has always had difficulty with her work colleagues, doesn't really like working and shows no real intention to get full employment. We have also advised do not pay her cash for child support as there will be no paper trail for it but she will not give her bank details to him. My advice is pay the welfareagency and get them to pay her. This cuts out another point of contact between them and she is less likely to rage at them. Does this seem reasonable?

[charred]

My son has recently divorced his wife who we strongly suspect is BPD. The apartment is sold and money ready to be split as per mediation agreement (65/35 in her favour as he could no longer argue with her). Her lawyer says to put it into a joint account (why if divorced? except to hide money from goernment welfare agencies?) and we (his parents have advised not to do this but to give her a cheque as she will not give her bank account no so he can direct credit. We feel he needs to cut contact (except to do with the child) and be involved with as little to do with her life as possible as she often lies and he may once again be caught up in her distortion campaigns and this could involve money. What do others think, is this sensble advice?

She also is on a single parents allowance from the government (the child is 10 so she should by welfare rules in this country (not USA) be working but has always had difficulty with her work colleagues, doesn't really like working and shows no real intention to get full employment. We have also advised do not pay her cash for child support as there will be no paper trail for it but she will not give her bank details to him. My advice is pay the welfareagency and get them to pay her. This cuts out another point of contact between them and she is less likely to rage at them. Does this seem reasonable?

No way... . on joint account... . if she is trying to avoid showing she has money for welfare... . don't be part of that... . haven't heard any good reason ever to have a joint account with an exwife that is disordered... . the very idea is silly.

Most states let you send money through the state or direct... . if she won't go for direct, I would go through the state. The down side is if your son doesn't make a payment he will be quickly in trouble as a deadbeat dad... . however the upside is that the state knows he paid her. If your son is the stable one and pays his bills, it is one less thing she can manipulate. You are right... . no cash payments of child support or spousal, have a paper trail, proof of everything.

If she is at all contentious... . he needs to keep a calendar with payments, visitation and a diary of everything that happens, as he will be screwed if he gets pulled in to court many months later and has no written record to try to argue against her... . the pwBPD I used to date loved to fight with her ex-husbands and take them to court... . over and over, and she kept a diary/records and dates and used anything they did (right or wrong) against them if it would benefit her. Pretty twisted... . plan for the worst, not for an amicable/normal person, and maybe you guys will be pleasantly surprised if it isn't the worst... . but if it is you won't be blindsided. Oh and when I said "If she is at all contentious"... . was kidding... . just do it, if she is BPD... . she is contentious, and doing these things won't hurt anyone if she were all nice and wonderful... . no real downside to protecting your son's interests.

[Waddams]

There are other ways to create a documentable paper trail of payments.  I have mine direct deposited straight from my paycheck by my employer, but again he'd need her account number.  If his employer is agreeable, his employer could cut two checks, one made to him, one to her, and mail her the check each month.  Then, he never takes possession of the money, and the employer's bank/payroll records document everything if he needs it in the future.

Or he could send her a check every month.  Just write it and mail it.  Have it delivered via certified mail so he can document she received it each month, and he'll be able to tell she's cashing the checks and document that each month as well via his own banking records.  He could even consider getting certified checks from his bank.

Or he could go buy money orders, make them out to her, mail them, and keep the receipts.

Regardless, he's got the ability to make his payments in a way that's documented if he doesn't want to go through a state agency. 

As for joint account with her... . my first instinct is NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO! His lawyer might be trying to have a way to document payments.  If she pulls the money out, you son can see it in the account records.  There are other ways to document payments. 

As for her trying to avoid documentable income for welfare (what follows is just my humble opinion)... . so what?  Your son is divorced, what she does in that regard is not his concern.  All he has to do is make his payments and document them somehow.  She can do whatever else she wants.  Let the authorities deal with her.  If she gets away with it, let that happen too.  It's not his life, not his concern.  He needs to steer as clear as he can from her in all ways except as it relates to caring for their child.

Anyway, I'm sorry he's dealing with issues with her, but glad he's free!  Hopefully he gets his life on a better track now and can move forward to better things.

[marbleloser]

No on the joint account.

He can write her a check for support and ask that she sign a receipt.That way,if she holds the check and says she didn't receive them,he has proof that she did.

He needs to go to the welfare office in person and tell them that he's paying support to her.In the US,the person receiving welfare has a legal obligation to disclose all sources of income.Not sure how it is where you are.

[arabella]

As for her trying to avoid documentable income for welfare (what follows is just my humble opinion)... . so what?  Your son is divorced, what she does in that regard is not his concern.  All he has to do is make his payments and document them somehow.  She can do whatever else she wants.  Let the authorities deal with her.  If she gets away with it, let that happen too.  It's not his life, not his concern.  He needs to steer as clear as he can from her in all ways except as it relates to caring for their child.

True enough. But don't get a joint account then. If it turns out that she is doing something illegal (e.g. hiding money from authorities) they can use the joint account as proof that your son had knowledge of her activities and implicate him in aiding her in a fraud scheme. Even if that goes nowhere in court, does your son really want to get dragged into it at all? NO. If she doesn't want to give her bank account info - she can set up another account, in her name only, just for receipt of payments.

If your son wants good advice he should ask his own lawyer - definitely NOT hers!

[ForeverDad]

Her lawyer says... .

In my state (in the USA) any money I give to my ex outside a court order is considered a "gift".  In this case the money payment is ordered.  But I agree - no joint account.  So what to do?  Give the check to her lawyer who I believe is considered an officer of the court.  Ponder whether it's better to first go to the bank with the money and get a bank check or teller check.

I don't know if there is any added benefit to give the money to your lawyer and let your lawyer send it to her lawyer.  Doubly protected?

Of course, keep all the paperwork and photocopies in case ever needed.  Your choice whether to copy her agency.

[Ishenuts]

I agree with Waddams. A certified check sent certified mail should be sufficient for documentation purposes.

I don't understand recommendations to get his employer involved. It really isn't their problem. As far as getting lawyers involved, I'm sure there'd be a $$$ charge. Why incur the extra expense?

I also don't agree with Marbleloser that he should report her to the welfare office. I totally understand the desire for revenge, but is't that what a BPD would do? Also, there is a child involved, and she may need the money to support the child. If there is fraud involved (I don't know which country is involved) it will be found out eventually. Is he trying to get custody?

[marbleloser]

If he's trying to get custody,welfare fraud will help his case.

[mother in law]

Thank you for all the advice. No he is not seeking custody at this stage it is split about 55% her way and 45% his  way. Sometimes I wonder if the child will say in teenage years this is too hard and I choose to live with dad, but that is a worry/thought for another time. We are also not considering telling welfare about her possible rorts, that is for them to find out and her to deal with if it is happening. Her behaviour is so all over the place and she is very adept a at distortion campaigns that we were worried that if there was no paper trail and the mood took her to do this with welfare he would find it difficult to prove he had paid. We are in Australia and yes she certainly needs money to live on. He has avoided court do far as he is not in a highly paid job and lawyers cost a lot of money. She does appear to be playing games by not giving her bank details and then raging at him for not paying. It had been 2 Weeks. To all you parents and partners who deal with this on a daily basis my heart goes out to you, you are brave and wonderful people. I have had 10 years knowing there was a problem and only the last 2 finding out how bad and soul destroying it really was and my patience is wearing very thin. Its taking me a while to realise there are just some things you cannot change!

[marbleloser]

I agree then.If he's not seeking custody,let her have the welfare.At least maybe it'll go for some of the kids needs.