Advice re his response after 4 months NC

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So I have been NC for 4 months with my uBPDxbf and I have been adamant this is it this time. A date with another man a couple of months ago was a real set back emotionally but I stuck with NC because although I miss him like crazy the thought of contact also makes me really panicky and brings on all sorts of stress symptoms. Lately I have also been working so hard I feel burnt out. Finding it hard to wrap my mind around things, expressing myself and any task, such as writing here, feels like a mountain to get over.

For a long now there's this thing of his I have wanted to return to him. This item means a lot to him. I have held onto it for the longest time, mostly because I haven't known how to return it without him thinking I wanted contact. In the past I used to try so hard to keep the lines of communication open. He reads everything I do as an attempt on my part to get back together. I have also been very angry with him for such a long time, that I just didn't want to give him the satisfaction of thinking I couldn't let go.

Today I sent him a text about his belonging. The text I wrote was simple, not friendly but not un-friendly either, just a simple note to let him know I have found this thing that belongs to him asking if he wants it.

I expected him to tell me to drop it in his mail box (we live close to each other) but he just responded ”absolutely”. It seems he is throwing the ball back in my court. Idk, but if he really only wanted the item returned, he would ask me to do just that. Is this a way for him to get me to reveal what I might possibly want before he does? Does it indicate he might possibly want more?

I would really want some input as to what could possibly be going on and advice as to what I should respond. I realise I do want to see him, but I would prefer to somehow convey to him it is safe for him to suggest it so I don't have to.

[mitti]

So I have been NC for 4 months with my uBPDxbf and I have been adamant this is it this time. A date with another man a couple of months ago was a real set back emotionally but I stuck with NC because although I miss him like crazy the thought of contact also makes me really panicky and brings on all sorts of stress symptoms. Lately I have also been working so hard I feel burnt out. Finding it hard to wrap my mind around things, expressing myself and any task, such as writing here, feels like a mountain to get over.

For a long now there's this thing of his I have wanted to return to him. This item means a lot to him. I have held onto it for the longest time, mostly because I haven't known how to return it without him thinking I wanted contact. In the past I used to try so hard to keep the lines of communication open. He reads everything I do as an attempt on my part to get back together. I have also been very angry with him for such a long time, that I just didn't want to give him the satisfaction of thinking I couldn't let go.

Today I sent him a text about his belonging. The text I wrote was simple, not friendly but not un-friendly either, just a simple note to let him know I have found this thing that belongs to him asking if he wants it.

I expected him to tell me to drop it in his mail box (we live close to each other) but he just responded ”absolutely”. It seems he is throwing the ball back in my court. Idk, but if he really only wanted the item returned, he would ask me to do just that. Is this a way for him to get me to reveal what I might possibly want before he does? Does it indicate he might possibly want more?

I would really want some input as to what could possibly be going on and advice as to what I should respond. I realise I do want to see him, but I would prefer to somehow convey to him it is safe for him to suggest it so I don't have to.

[Clearmind]

mitti, we could guess for eons about what a text saying "Absolutely" means.

Do you want out or do you want to reconcile?

Whats the next step now its your turn to respond? (you can choose to keep text conversation going (not advisable if you want to detach) or you can provide a solution and stop the text back and forth (drop off at a location or drop it off at his door).

[seeking balance]

Hi Mitti,

On the personal inventory thread, you discuss being exhausted, emotionally and intellectually. - also mentioned is how you were "fine" being alone before this relationship and it is so hard now.

My reason to bring this post into this discussion is it is directly related to your actions in contacting your ex now.

Clearmind asked an important question - what is it you really want from him?

I was in the other thread, so I have the benefit of knowing more about your emotional state than simply this one question - because your question about how to respond to him has absolutely nothing to do with what is going on with you now.

Many of us think that our pain here is "special" or "unique" because we were left or we tried harder or some other reason.  In reality, once I realized that the pain here is all the same - I could stop my magical thinking that there is something special about my connection.  There isn't.  Clearmind, myself and many others who finally accept the process will tell you - sadness and grief and all that core hurt is not unique to you or me or anyone else here.

Why do you think you waited 4 months to return what you "perceive" as being a special object to him... . at a time when you are feeling the most vulnerable and exhaused (from the other post).  We all have done this to one degree or the other Mitti - all of us have reached out to our exes at some point to avoid feeling the deep down hurt we need to grieve rather than feel it.  Whether it is looking at a FB post, texting about items still to pick up or asking about a pet - we have ALL reached out one last time rather than dive into our own pain.  The thing is, the more we do this - the more we lose our own respect.  Doing it a few times is part of the process, thinking that you really want a relationship rather than to grieve the core pain will serve to extend our grief process, thus our ability to let go and move on with creating a better life for ourselves is delayed.

"Absolutely" - he wants it, mail it to him - then let it go, let him go and feel the pain and grieve.

When you do, you will find that you are capable of creating a life, a full life yourself.  It is hard, it is scary - but there are many of us here who have done it and are doing it. 

We all have deep, deep core pain.  These relationships show this to us so we can heal - it is not some magical relationship or unique kind of pain - but it is real and it is core to us.

Hang in there Mitti,

SB

[patientandclear]

SB, I would agree if Mitti is sure she is finished with this r/s.  It ended 4 months ago when he violated an important boundary & she enforced it.  But since, she's experienced fear that there is no one else out there who will fill the needs that he fills, a fear that I don't think any of us should lightly assure her is without foundation.  I have the same fear and we could be right -- it may be that, when they are in our lives, these people give us enough that is special that we could consider whether it is worth the cost of having a r/s that looks very different, and has very different rules, than we had ever considered before.

Mitti, I think you cannot figure out what you want to do without going back to that question of the boundary you enforced.

Do you still mean it?  Do you want a r/s where that boundary does not exist?  Because that seems to be the only kind of romantic r/s you can expect with this man.

If you are prepared to give up that boundary, you can.  You can re-enter and possibly re-establish a romance with this man, this time, without the expectation of him staying on the good side of that boundary.  You can accept who he is and what he does, and choose to be with him on those terms.

Or, if you are not prepared to give up that boundary, you can consider contact with him on terms other than a romance.  This is what I did.  It's been super hard.  Not saying it's been without value or that I regret it -- in a way, it has allowed me to de-romanticize the r/s in my eyes.  I have a lot more data about him, and how he views me, now.  It has actually helped me detach.  But at a cost of continued violation of trust I really had no reason to extend except my own romantic illusions.

Or, if you are not prepared to give up the boundary you imposed 4 months ago, and you don't want to do the awkward painful possibly worthwhile friends thing I did, you can stay away.

Seems to me it would be a good idea to elect one of those paths based on how you feel about your boundary and how you feel about a non-romantic connection if you are going to maintain your boundary about a romantic r/s.

If you choose one of those frameworks, what to do now will sort of solve itself.

[seeking balance]

SB, I would agree if Mitti is sure she is finished with this r/s. 

Absolutely - she may not be finished... . reviewing her entire body of posts, it may be she is simply exhausted and grasping rather than really wanting him back.  Being in an exhausted emotionally and intellectually space (Mitti's words) is not usually the best time to make decisions on engaging with a pwBPD no matter what your stance is, wouldn't you agree P&C?

[mcc503764]

At first glance, this acknowleges that he has received your text and he wants the item returned.  However, he is playing with your mind because by "one-wording" you with his response, it forces you into the position of having to force the conversation by asking for more detail!

Make like simple for yourself, drop the item in his mailbox then simply send him a text telling him.  This way YOU are the one who is in control of the situation.

It's only a game if two people play it!

MCC

[123Phoebe]

Hi Mitti

I would really want some input as to what could possibly be going on and advice as to what I should respond. I realise I do want to see him, but I would prefer to somehow convey to him it is safe for him to suggest it so I don't have to.

Okay... .

You sent him a text asking if he wants his book back, with all kinds of complex thought processes going on about this very simple question... .

He responds "absolutely"

And now there're all kinds of complex thought processes going on about what he may be thinking and how to get him to see you in person in a way that makes you feel more comfortable, than just saying... .

"I can send it to you, drop it off, or... . I'd really like to see you to give it back to you in person.  Do you think this is a possibility... . ?"

And take it from there... .

At some point in time we have to be authentic and take whatever happens with us.  Own it.  Live it.  While giving the other person the space to respond to us the way they want to.  And we respect their wishes.

We cannot change or coerce another person into doing things for us, that we don't have the courage to do ourselves.

Mitti, respect him and yourself by being true and authentic

[SadWifeofBPD]

would really want some input as to what could possibly be going on and advice as to what I should respond. I realise I do want to see him, but I would prefer to somehow convey to him it is safe for him to suggest it so I don't have to.

Do you want to reconcile or not?

[mcc503764]

My advice... .

Drop it in the mail.  I'd much rather pay the $10 to ship it then pay God only know how much for the alternative of contact.

just my opinion

MCC

[mitti]

Thank you all for your advice,

I talked it over with my T to see what she thought. We used to see her together for couple's counseling for almost a year so she knows him. She has also confirmed to me that she would diagnose him with BPD if that's what we were there for. She thought he wanted something more than just his belonging back with his response "absolutely". That he was trying to make me reveal what I wanted. She suggested I just ask how he wanted to do this. The thing is I really don't want to go to his house because of my PTSD. There are some things I wanted to tell him, that have nothing to do with getting back together, and so yes, should he have suggested to talk I would have said yes.

Anyway, this is what I did and this is what happened:

I sent a text asking what he wanted to do about it. He wrote back saying that I could put it in the post or put it in his mail box and that for the holiday coming up in two weeks he is going to the country with his girlfriend.

Good for me, because if there is anything that makes me never want to take anybody back it is if they have had a r/s after breaking up with me. Yes, it hurts, a lot. Mostly because I am not special. I have never been special to anybody, but at least I thought I was special to him. OK, the other thing is why he wrote this. Why... . to hurt me, because he thinks I am chasing him, although I have stayed NC for 4 months, something I have never done before. Why not just suggest yesterday I post it or put it in the mailbox. That is actually the response I expected then. Why suggest it now and add that in two weeks he is not home. Obviously he wants me to know he has a girlfriend. But why not write that yesterday?

A little hurt but I am really wondering... . what do you think?

[123Phoebe]

It's his way of saying it's over; this is only about the book.

Drop it in the mail and let him go... .

Good for me, because if there is anything that makes me never want to take anybody back it is if they have had a r/s after breaking up with me.

^^You said it yourself^^

You're free from the clutches... .    Free to live your own life  

[mitti]

I hear you 123Phoebe,

But just because I will not take him back doesn't mean that this doesn't hurt. And nothing can make me lift a finger for him again. If he wants his book he can sort it out himself in a way that is convenient for me. I am sorry if this sounds bad, but really, the man ruined my life, he owes me money, he has caused me to have severe PTSD bla bla. Why should I make anything easier for him?

Not making this easier for him actually makes me feel a little better. Have none of you ever felt like that before?

And I don't feel free. I have wanted to meet somebody new since we broke up but a woman my age just isn't interesting. He is a couple of years older but obviously has no problems. Why is it that?

[123Phoebe]

Mitti, I mean this is the nicest sense... . Grow up!  I've had to tell myself the same thing on a number of occasions.

You asked him if he wanted his book.  He said absolutely.  As an adult, it is now your responsibility to return it to him.

You engaged.  I'm very sorry it didn't turn out the way you had hoped it would.  You were willing to engage with a man that owes you money, caused you mental duress and has ruined your life.

What were you expecting from him?

Were you baiting him?

Sounds like it if you're now going to lord the book over him. 

Give yourself permission to exit the game.  Give him his book back and move on... .

[Clearmind]

Mitti. Feeling free is a state of mind only you can control. This is not about him. We need to begin to find ways to move away from blame and look at our role.

When you open that door into your own world rather than com concentrating on how he did you wrong - is when you begin to heal. Choice is yours.

You have had a few go arounds I'm sure, like many of us. There are reasons within you as to why that happened.

When you are ready.

[mitti]

@123Phoebe

It didn't sound that nice actually. I am sorry if I offended you somehow. it is NOT my responsibility to do anything. I will not withhold the book from him but I am not making an effort for him to get it. I asked him if he wanted it back. If he hadn't wanted it back I would be free to do with it as I please. Now that I know he wants it I need only keep it until HE organizes how to get it.

I didn't bait him. My main concern was that he does not think I chased him. For whatever reasons is a long story that I haven't written here.

It is always easy to offer advice to other people but we tend to forgive the attachment they have to their BPDs and the hurt they have gone through because it is not our own. It is NOT easy to get over any of these dysfunctional r/s, not for any of us. To not engage again with somebody who caused us so much misery... . it may sound illogical or whatever but many of us have not been able to do it. I don't know what to call it, perhaps something like the Stockholm syndrome. In any case it is real.

So for you to say to me to grow up, that's not nice. And it is really invalidating of the pain I am going through right now. I am in pain. I did nothing to deserve his mean treatment of me.

[seeking balance]

I am in pain.

Mitti, I know you are in pain and I think Phoebe does too.

The book is not the source of pain, I think we all can agree on that.  I am wondering what your T said about you reaching out to him after sharing with her how exhausted you are both emotionally and intellectually. 

Since this is the undecided board, it sounded like you wanted to get back in touch with him and you did.  Exactly what were you hoping he would respond saying?

I realise I do want to see him, but I would prefer to somehow convey to him it is safe for him to suggest it so I don't have to.

Can you help us understand why you wanted him to want you versus you making the move to get back in touch with him?  I know you don't mean for it to come across "game-like", but can you see that you may be trying to get the upperhand with control by this statement?

[danley]

I agree that there seems to be an element of control.

Are you holding on to the book as a way of connection? I understand you are in pain. But giving him the book back will actually be beneficial to yourself and your healing. It will put you in the position of being in control of yourself.

Do you feel this is a way of holding on?

if so, I understand. But it seems like he's not willing to change to be the way you want him to or had planned.

When my ex called for his things I let him gather them. He left some things behind. I regretfully tried to talk sense into him. I wish I hadn't because it just made me seem desperate. When he calls for his other things I will be more emotionally prepared and ready for him to take his things and go. When he gave me my keys back it was like a slap of reality that things were over.It was like an item that symbolized our relationship. I know yours is just a book but Maybe this what you're feeling too?

EITHER way, there are any wise people on these boards with tons of experiments BPD partners. They've gone thru the same things as you and I. Take what advice suits you best and the rest is up to you and how you want to handle it.

Just know that giving the book back is to BENEFIT YOU not HIM. Freeing yourself from this chain will give you the opportunity to reflect and heal further on yourself.

[Cardinals in Flight]

Hi Mitti,

I'm so very sorry you are hurting right now, intensely in pain, off the charts, it sucks, and I can totally relate.

The very hardest part for any of us who have traveled this path is to be honest with ourselves.  I am going to be honest with you, and tell you that some of my interactions with my XpwBPDgf were to see if she'd react differently, run back into my arms and tell me she made a huge mistake!  She never did, but I wanted her to, I prayed for her to have this "awakening" whereby she would suddenly realize I was the best thing that ever happened to her, well? because I am

If I really wanted her to have her book, as in your instance, I'd just mail it.  The book would represent my integrity of not keeping something that did not belong to me. But? If i wanted to use it to maybe get her to connect?  I'd do what you did.  I HAVE done what you did.  Protect your heart Mitti, mail that book! No note, nothing but the book.

It's ok you texted him, I know how vulnerable you're feeling, sometimes we don't think with our reason mind when we are this tired.  I sure didn't and I got hurt too... . I don't want to see you hurt anymore.  You've come 4 months away from this r/s, that's amazing!

Go easy on yourself, protect your heart so it will be ready for some deserving person.

Ox

[mitti]

Hi SB,

OK I will try to explain, but I it’s hard for me as I do worry somebody who knows me might recognise me from the facts about my life that I post here. I have told me ex about this forum also.

No, the book is not the source of pain. Being alone and unwanted is. I grieve both my ex and the fact that no man has ever wanted me, enough to prioritise me. I am a very loyal and affectionate person.  I am also extremely avoidant so most people have no idea how vulnerable I am.

I think I have hidden my real me even better than my ex when in T, he is very open actually, but my T knows me now. I feel responsible for other people even when it is not my business to do so. But I do feel hurt when nobody shows me the same consideration I show them. Obviously my ex hurt me a lot. It is so easy to say, that if somebody hurts us we need to leave but a lot harder to do in real life. My ex used to say it, he used to place all blame on me because he knew I would take it.

What I wanted from my ex was most of all to let him know I was leaving because I am leaving to a place we were talking about moving to. I realise that when he is in push he cannot tolerate my presence, so much so, he would do almost anything to avoid me. He is not usually a proactive person but if anything will make him act it is when he needs to get away. But I wanted to move there, to heal, and I didn’t want him to. So if I could tell him I was moving there he would feel fine staying.  My other reason for wanting to leave is the smear campaign I have been a victim of, a long story that I won’t get into, but it involves a great part of my life and many people that I know. I feel totally humiliated, but not mostly by my ex but by a friend of his.

My ex always seems to think that all I do is an attempt to get back together with him. Yes, I have not always accepted his brutal cutting me out of his life. I find being excluded the worst kind of pain I have ever experienced. Whenever I have only wanted to be nice he has read that as my chasing him, even when I wasn’t. After all the humiliation I feel in our r/s and loss of self respect, that was more important than anything. This is the reason I haven’t returned to book yet. It may sound ridiculous but it is true. If I had gone to his house he would have believed I had rung the door bell when he found the book in the mail box, even if I hadn’t. Even if I sent it in the mail he would think so. I returned something else to him another time and yes, he told me he felt I was chasing him.

I now wanted to return it before the summer holidays together with a note explaining it wasn’t an attempt to have contact. But it felt more “sane” to just send the text first, after going over my options with my T. I just didn’t expect his reply, and his reply made any come back on my part moot. It also made me curious and awoke an interest to see what HE wanted. That feeling became stronger as the day progressed. I followed the advice of my T. But of course I wasn’t going to let him know that. I have been humiliated enough by him. Hence my wanting him to reveal his intentions first. I don’t know why this would be strange to anybody.

[seeking balance]

Mitti,

You probably need a big ol hug   

No, the book is not the source of pain. Being alone and unwanted is. I grieve both my ex and the fact that no man has ever wanted me, enough to prioritise me. I am a very loyal and affectionate person.  I am also extremely avoidant so most people have no idea how vulnerable I am.

This is really core, hard stuff to feel.  The thing is, you are enough - you are valuable - because you exist, you are enough just as you are.  I know it is hard to believe in the midst of this pain... . but on the other side of this pain is a Mitti that you will love and respect, as you grow in love for yourself, so will others.

I think I have hidden my real me even better than my ex when in T, he is very open actually, but my T knows me now. I feel responsible for other people even when it is not my business to do so. But I do feel hurt when nobody shows me the same consideration I show them. Obviously my ex hurt me a lot. It is so easy to say, that if somebody hurts us we need to leave but a lot harder to do in real life. My ex used to say it, he used to place all blame on me because he knew I would take it.

It is scary being totally 100% vulnerable and open.  I am glad you are sharing this with your T.  The way to an open heart and happiness is learning to be vulnerable with people worthy of our vulnerability.   My T used to say often, the greatest strength is the ability to be vulnerable... . baby steps with your T and here do help.  You are safe Mitti, we are not here to sugar coat it for you, but we are not here to lie to you either... . you are stronger than you realize.

What I wanted from my ex was most of all to let him know I was leaving because I am leaving to a place we were talking about moving to.

Dig deep here - were you hoping to connect with him to alleviate some of your fears around leaving?  What were you feeling that you wanted to share with him rather than someone else?

I realise that when he is in push he cannot tolerate my presence, so much so, he would do almost anything to avoid me. He is not usually a proactive person but if anything will make him act it is when he needs to get away. But I wanted to move there, to heal, and I didn’t want him to. So if I could tell him I was moving there he would feel fine staying.  My other reason for wanting to leave is the smear campaign I have been a victim of, a long story that I won’t get into, but it involves a great part of my life and many people that I know. I feel totally humiliated, but not mostly by my ex but by a friend of his.

It sounds like you are going away to give yourself a safe place to heal, to rebuild your self - it is healthy for you, it honestly doesn't really matter what he thinks about it, does it?

My ex always seems to think that all I do is an attempt to get back together with him. Yes, I have not always accepted his brutal cutting me out of his life. I find being excluded the worst kind of pain I have ever experienced.

I imagine after spending a lot of your life avoidant as you said earlier, that opening up and then being excluded really hurts a lot.  Obviously you really did trust him or you would not have opened up to him... . I so wish he could respect that vulnerability you showed him, unfortunately, he doesn't.  I know first-hand how much that can hurt.  I also know that by continually thinking your ex may change "this time" it is faulty thinking on our part.  It took me a couple painful reminders to learn that lesson too.

Whenever I have only wanted to be nice he has read that as my chasing him, even when I wasn’t. After all the humiliation I feel in our r/s and loss of self respect, that was more important than anything. This is the reason I haven’t returned to book yet. It may sound ridiculous but it is true. If I had gone to his house he would have believed I had rung the door bell when he found the book in the mail box, even if I hadn’t. Even if I sent it in the mail he would think so. I returned something else to him another time and yes, he told me he felt I was chasing him.

Well, you just were never going to "win" that one with him.  Your perception is that  he has cast you in a role of chasing him, so no matter what you do - that is going to push your shame buttons.  The only way to stop pushing that shame button is to stop playing the role with him.  It is sad, it is unfair - but it is a fact.

I now wanted to return it before the summer holidays together with a note explaining it wasn’t an attempt to have contact. But it felt more “sane” to just send the text first, after going over my options with my T. I just didn’t expect his reply, and his reply made any come back on my part moot. It also made me curious and awoke an interest to see what HE wanted. That feeling became stronger as the day progressed. I followed the advice of my T. But of course I wasn’t going to let him know that. I have been humiliated enough by him. Hence my wanting him to reveal his intentions first. I don’t know why this would be strange to anybody.

At this point, the book is a nonissue.  Drop it in the mail or don't, either way - it doesn't change the facts.  You loved this man and it is over - you opened up a core part of you that you now have to grieve.  Contact with him is going to hurt you, but sometimes in life, we need more and more doses of hurt before we are really ready to let go and protect ourselves.

Mitti, you didn't do anything that most of us have not done to one degree or another in our detaching process.  Most of us here were given a big fat dose of reality before we were shaken enough to really look in the mirror.  Some folks never do look in the mirror and keep doing the rinse/repeat thing - no matter, we all have our own journeys and this one is yours.  Life is difficult at times - we get up each day and do the best we can, sounds cliche' - but it is the truth.

You do matter, you are stronger than you know and your ex has given you a glimpse into happiness by being vulnerable versus avoidant.  If you let yourself heal those core wounds, show love and respect to yourself, you will come to a peace and happiness.  It is not always easy, but it is worth the effort.

Peace,

SB

[mitti]

Thank you SB,

I can't respond to everything because I am exhausted and worn out by constant pain. I know I am valuable, but it is not enough for me if nobody else sees it, if nobody chooses me. I will never get over what this man did to me, I accept that. There's not enough left of my life for it to be worth facing this pain again though. It takes too long. I am not looking forward to becoming old(er). I just seriously don't see the value in doing any more work. I really just want my life to be over. I am not saying I am suicidal, I am saying I am wanting it to be over.

Btw, I wanted to let him know that I was going there so he wouldn't go there. That is the truth. Yes, I have missed him, but in 4 months I did nothing about it and it wasn't until his response that it even became real there might be something else there.

[seeking balance]

I just seriously don't see the value in doing any more work.

I am going to share a secret with you - this is the work. You are doing it by sitting in the pain and facing it... . it isn't about him, you were in this pain before him - he only opened it up for you.

If you are not suicidal, but want it over - there is no magic cure, I really do hope you contact your T for another appointment in the near future Mitti.  Will you do that?

[danley]

Mitti,

I've been thru my experience accusing me of wanting him back. At first it was truth. But after seeing his dysfunctional behavior it made me do some serious thinking. It forced me out of the FOG and made me see just how deluded his thinking and actions and words were to me before and after the breakup. So I stopped giving him reasons to think I wanted him back because I was getting tired of it. But like your ex, anything and everything he'd consider it being me wanting him back including just saying HI in passing at work. It got to to the point where I just though OMG THIS GUY IS FULL OF HIMSELF. I felt like he had this sick addiction to me wanting him even tho after several months I was in a place where I just wanted the madness to end for MYSELF. My ex stopped the accusations as of two weeks ago. Probably had something to do with me telling him I wasn't going to enable his negative thoughts and words anymore or try to MAKE him see it was narcissistic. I didnt want him to have control over me even anymore emotionally.

Sounds like your ex is full of himself too. And I agree with SB. You are going thru pain and are placing blame on yourself. Your self esteems been shot. Dont let him take anymore of it from you. I believe if you don't want him to move where you are moving just tell him so that you will have peace of mind. But go into it with the intention doing only that. Keep it short and simple.

[danley]

Sorry... .

I want I've been thru my EX accusing

NOT my experience.

[mcc503764]

This is just my take on your words.  Everyone has their own time line on how they will process, handle, grieve, and gain acceptance from this pain. This is a personal process, that will vary with every individual.

The easy thing for everyone else to say is F**K it!  But until you're ready to make that decision in your own mind, it's irrelevant. 

This book is obviously your last attachment to your ex.  It's more than just a book, it's a symbol.  I get that.  Honestly, I had a lot of my x's things and after months of holding onto them, I threw them in the trash.  Not to be mean or hateful (although it did feel good... . ,) but to rid my life of her clutter, her memory, and so I didn't have to think of her every time I would see her items... . this actually helped.

I figured that if things were that important to her, she would've remembered them.  after a couple of months, it was safe to assume that she didn't need them, so I had to rid my life of her clutter!  not just the physical, but emotional as well! 

You did the responsible thing.  It sounds as if he has "moved on," but is playing a game with his ambiguous response of "absolutely."  So, in response to that, I would mail it back to him.  Don't write him a letter or say anything.  remember that your silence says enough!

Rid your life of the clutter!  Who cares what he thinks?  If he's truly moved on, then why would he "think" anything?  Do yourself a favor, and save yourself some unnecessary grieving and stop worrying about things that you cannot control!  Trust me, it's very easy to get caught up in this thinking, but all this is doing is hurting you!

When you can learn not to care about his interpretation of your actions is when you take back YOUR own dignity, self respect, and you can begin living YOUR life again!

MCC

[123Phoebe]

@123Phoebe

It didn't sound that nice actually. I am sorry if I offended you somehow. it is NOT my responsibility to do anything. I will not withhold the book from him but I am not making an effort for him to get it. I asked him if he wanted it back. If he hadn't wanted it back I would be free to do with it as I please. Now that I know he wants it I need only keep it until HE organizes how to get it.

I didn't bait him. My main concern was that he does not think I chased him. For whatever reasons is a long story that I haven't written here.

It is always easy to offer advice to other people but we tend to forgive the attachment they have to their BPDs and the hurt they have gone through because it is not our own. It is NOT easy to get over any of these dysfunctional r/s, not for any of us. To not engage again with somebody who caused us so much misery... . it may sound illogical or whatever but many of us have not been able to do it. I don't know what to call it, perhaps something like the Stockholm syndrome. In any case it is real.

So for you to say to me to grow up, that's not nice. And it is really invalidating of the pain I am going through right now. I am in pain. I did nothing to deserve his mean treatment of me.

Mitti, I understand your pain more than you realize... .   I hate seeing people in emotional pain, it's my Achilles heel.  I want people to feel good, feel energized and to live their lives to their fullest potential, without the emotional baggage and turmoil that so many of us sink into; myself included.

I also understand your attachment to him.  It's no easy task detaching emotionally from someone we love, someone that we attached so many hopes and dreams to... .   Giving up the dream hurts.  In its place is a certain reality that clashes with our hopes and dreams.  These people are not who we envisioned them to be.  They might've seemed to be for a while, but they're not.  Respecting that they are individuals with their own crosses to bare has helped me to detach and to see them for who they really are... . Humans!  They're not gods that hold ultimate power over those who love them.  They're simply people with the same issues that the rest of us have.  How we each handle our feelings around these issues is unique and individual... .

I still think the 'book' is important.  It's the symbol you chose to use to make contact.  You knew it was important to him.  Important enough to get him to respond.

If your biggest concern is not wanting him to think you're chasing him, then send the book back to him in the mail.  No note, no nothing.  Simply send it back like he asked you to after you asked him how to go about it.

That's detachment.  That's grown up.  That's not chasing in any way shape or form.  It's letting go, the opposite of chasing.

By holding onto it and making him come to you if he really wants it that badly, is still being attached to an uncertain outcome... . a fantasy.  And it also tells him that you are still chasing that fantasy.  Chasing him... .   Only it's a dream being chased, because he isn't who you want or need him to be.

Does that make sense?

I wish the very best for you Mitti





 

[patientandclear]

Wow Mitti.  That's hard.  I'm sorry.

When I hear from my ex when we haven't been in good contact recently, I don't open the message until I've literally sat myself down & written out all the possible content that could rock me ... . "I wanted you to know from me that I'm getting married" is always on the list, along with "it's best that we not be in contact" and so on.

I learned from mutual friends that, after we reconnected as friends, he sent a text to the woman he dated both before and after me, telling her he was going to a festival that weekend with "a wonderful woman."  That was me (at the time, I think he was clearly considering trying again with me as romantic partners, though I wasn't).  A few months earlier, he was contemplating marriage and kids with this other woman (which floored me, just like this current news is flooring you -- it was very soon after he left me).  Who does that -- just gratuitously conveying "hey, I'm doing fine, turns out you weren't The One like I said you were?"  It must have really hurt her.  I imagine he rationalized it because she somehow hurt him, by being critical when he left her, making him feel bad about what he'd done.  Eventually, everyone in the chain of his romantic connections has to open some painful message, it seems.

I totally get the feeling of life being empty after this experience.  I think my situation is pretty close to yours.  I'm not far from 50; I've spent quite a bit of time alone; I work a lot.  After losing this r/s, things that used to seem really worthwhile to me and made me happy, no longer did.  I discovered in this r/s that I really would be happier sharing all those big and little things with someone else.  That was an unhelpful realization in some ways, given that I am no longer 25 and there is a not a potential boyfriend around every corner.  Most non-dysfunctional men our age are working hard to make whatever r/s they started in earlier years work.  As I wrote earlier, like you, when I fell in love with this man & he with me, it felt like my story was going to have an unexpectedly happy ending, and I felt so grateful and lucky.  Now I just feel the experience ruined my ability to appreciate the rest of my life without him.

It's really, really rough.  I just want to confirm that!  It really is.

That said.  The future is not written.  There may be twists and turns that make us think "thank goodness that all happened as it did, otherwise I would have been stuck in a r/s that gave me PTSD and in which I would never have felt secure, and instead, [X] happened and now I feel safe and happy."  If we live and see what happens, things will happen.  They may be great.  We don't know yet.

I think it is easy when we feel we have lost these relationships & we're second-guessing & feeling regret that we let them go (to the extent we did), to forget how good our reasons were for taking the steps we took.  You protected yourself from continuing cycles of withdrawal that had really hurt you before.  Turns out, he couldn't meet you on ground that would work for you.  Me too.  I'm somewhat horrified that, after I set the boundary that was meaningful to me, and my ex didn't/couldn't meet it (and instead just went & got a new person), my reaction was to want to take back the boundary.  I felt like anything would be worth it to be together with him again, I would have accepted extreme dysfunction and behaviors that were very hurtful to me.

I'm glad I never played out those feelings, but I sure felt them.  That is addiction talking.  I felt I wanted him at any price.  That's a recipe for misery.  If you had carried on without the boundary you set, you'd have been in line for a lot of misery too.  :)on't forget that part.

I am not certain either of us will find true love, Mitti, but we could.  What we let go was very harmful.  He is still harming you, by choosing not to do the work required to repair your r/s, and just getting another one. When my ex made the same choice, it devastated me.  I had thought I was special to him, that we were special.  When he went back to his ex gf (a lovely, smart, much younger woman BTW), I felt not special, like you're saying now.  That no man would choose me and commit enough to do the work of a r/s.  I felt I and we weren't worth it for him to do what was necessary to save us.

In truth, what was necessary to save us, given that I did have a boundary about how he'd dealt with me before, was some deep introspection and work on himself and his issues with intimacy.  It was terrifying for him.  It was no small thing.  He is still going to the ends of the earth to avoid doing it, which is currently really challenging our post r/s friendship.  It's not that you are not special.  It's that he was not up to the very hard work he would have needed to do to be your partner, though, because you were special to him, he really tried, for a while.  He is not going to do better for this new woman.  At some point, that will become a problem.

Are you doing work in therapy to process your traumatic loss(es) with him?  You have more than one episode of loss with him -- you let him back in after he really hurt you, and he hurt you again, and now again -- I don't think you can underestimate the damage done by this to your basic sense of safety and trust.  I am certain my problem is traumatic loss in this r/s (not FOO issues) and I have yet to figure out how that can be treated effectively.  Going to talk with my therapist about it today.

[Murbay]

Hi mitti,

Many people on here, including myself, do understand your position and a lot of the issues you are going through right now. For many of us, it is what connected us to our pwBPD in the first place.

Perhaps 123Phoebe's initial comment was a little blunt in terms of growing up but behind that was a sincere message about the fact you are free to take back your own life. Easier said than done, especially with avoidance issues and low self-worth. You have to remember something though, you are very special and far from ever being worthless, nor are you alone and you are definitely wanted. I have a lot of avoidance traits myself and I took on the guilt of other peoples emotional pain even when it didn't make sense because I wasn't the one to cause it. The fact that you can recognise those abilities inside yourself is testament to your strength and courage and should be admired for how far you have come.

I understand your attempt at reaching out to him too. It isn't so much to engage but more about finding closure for yourself on friendly terms, partly because you are still carrying some of that guilt and responsibility that he has placed on you. My ex had a follow up appointment to her surgery a couple of weeks ago and all I wanted to do was send a message to ask how things went and to hope she got good news. Why? Because I wasn't the bad guy and also I felt a great deal of sympathy for her knowing that the BPD is not her fault. However, it is who they are and as my T kept reminding me, reaching out is like continuing to stick your hand out to a hungry lion. They want to hurt you for their perceived abandonment and make you feel the pain they are. In our case we feel that pain deeply as it is and anything they do throw only serves to hurt more.

The important things to remember is that you only have control over you and the direction you want to take and where you want to be is only down to you. Holding on to the book, for whatever reason, only serves to keep you from moving forward and it is a brave new world out there. Especially when you feel alone, vulnerable and carrying those avoidance traits. The truth is though, that you are not alone and you have care and support here but the work starts from within. I'm almost positive there is someone out there who can give you the love and affection you truly deserve without the shame and guilt attached to it. See that as your goal and take the small steps forward to becoming that person you have always wanted to be, because you can and nobody can hold you back.

When you reach the end of that journey, you will be very surprised how far you have actually come and how many positive influences will have entered your life as a result of who you are. We all want to be loved and the first step towards that goal is to start loving ourselves for who we are.

I wish you well on your journey mitti and always remember, we are here to support you so don't ever feel you are walking forwards alone 

[mitti]

I have just read through your last posts and I just want to say thank you all for your support and kind words. I will respond better after tomorrow. I am organizing a party for my daughter and having my family come and stay with us tomorrow, so right now I am under all sorts of stress. But I just wanted to express my gratitude now and I write more later.

Thank you 

[bewildered2]

hey mitti,

just wanted to pass on something that i was told a while ago about dealing with someone with BPD:

"you can't beat them"

so you had something of his... . and maybe that item was a link between the two of you... . in your mind, at least... . and maybe you were hoping he'd ask for it... . so he contacts you rather than the other way around... . but he didnt... . and so you contacted him... . maybe to let him know that you had the item of his... . or maybe you used the item as an excuse to make contact... .

look what happened.

you made contact. he replied in a curt and hurtful manner.

you    will    not    beat    him... .

take the pain. feel it. learn from it. remember how it feels. remember who made you feel this way. remember that he makes you feel badly. and give up on the dream that he is a nice guy. he isn't. and pity the poor girl who is next in his firing line. because she will get the nice guy treatment too... . until he has his hooks in her deep and then he'll be obnoxious to her too. guaranteed.

dont waste another 4 months waiting for him to contact you or to come back.

take a leaf out of his book and move on.

life eats you or you eat life. time to get hungry!

b2