A little vent.

[Matt]

Married 12 years, separated 2006, divorced 2008, kids now S15 and D16, plus SD23 and SS35.  Legally 50/50 but the kids spend most of their time with me... .

Over the summer last year D16 worked at McDonalds, but so far neither of them have jobs for this summer, so they have way too much time on their hands.  At their mom's house there is no internet or cable TV and no place to walk - not a nice area.  My house is small but in a very pleasant area, with internet and cable TV and a cat.

I travel on business one or two days a week.  The kids can take care of themselves even when I'm not home.

This week was supposed to be their week with Mom.  She works full-time so I offered, "If you want to drop the kids off on your way to work Monday that would be fine - they could spend time here during the day."  My assumption was, she would pick them up after work.

Not so much.  She left them at her place, then told them to take a bus to where she works;  then they called me and asked me to pick them up there.  When I got there, they wanted to go to their mom's house "to pick up our stuff".  "Stuff" meaning clothes etc. to stay the whole week with me.  So I need to get them to track practice, guitar practice, etc., feed them, and pay for everything they need, this week - and presumably most of the summer.

The good thing is, more time with the kids - they're great and it's best for them too.  The bad thing is, it's hard to work with them around, and it costs a lot to have them all the time.  But they help with cooking and housework, do yardwork, etc.  All in all, a good thing, just more to handle, and no hint from Mom as to her thinking - will they be with me all summer, will she want them some of the time -  no clue... .

[DreamGirl]

So what's the vent?  

You can't really guage your life based on her. You already know that though.

You can handle it this emotionally, legally, practically, and logically... .

Logic would lend to the thinking of  - If the kids are with me all the time, we'll need to adjust child support so you can help support them at my house. Legal and practical thinking would follow along those same lines.

However, we know how that probably would play out with someone who is acting from a more emotional staNPDoint.

My husband has his oldest child living with us 80% of the time and still pays child support for her as if they were 50/50. It's actually the most cost effective way to handle the situation and it guarantees the outcome that he wants - which is for her to live with us full time with the least amount of hassle.

So you have to decide what it is that you want.

It's expensive to take care of kids full time. I'm OK with the younger two staying at their mom's apartment and would not offer my house - even though we have a pool, internet, wi-fi, cable, etc. and she does not. We can't afford to pay her child support and still support them full time. We just can not. They are OK at their mom's every other week, eating her food and using her utilities.

I think you already know your solution.  

[Waddams]

Oh I can understand this!  My ex- stays silent and never communicates about kid schedules anymore.  I also think she doesn't even remember what the court ordered schedule is either.  Which has worked out fine for me as I've gotten used to having S8 on all my time, and then 1/2 of hers now too!  But it is irritating when you want to be responsible about something, and the other side seems hell bent on not letting you.  JMHO, but I think the lack of communication is a combination of silent treatment and they get a control/attention kick out of it.  They like to be the center of attention, so they enjoy trying to make us come to them.  Adds to the sense of chaos (which they msitake as attention) they keep swirling around them.

I've gotten so I just make my plans to always include S8, so I'm always able to keep him.  He's reacting to it by always wanting to be with me, never with his mom, and he's openly disrespectful to her now about being with her.  I try to support him appropriately because the things he complains about sounds like a legitimate gripe to me while trying to stop the disrespect, but not making much headway currently.

[Matt]

So what's the vent?  

You can't really guage your life based on her. You already know that though.

You can handle it this emotionally, legally, practically, and logically... .

Logic would lend to the thinking of  - If the kids are with me all the time, we'll need to adjust child support so you can help support them at my house. Legal and practical thinking would follow along those same lines.

However, we know how that probably would play out with someone who is acting from a more emotional staNPDoint.

My husband has his oldest child living with us 80% of the time and still pays child support for her as if they were 50/50. It's actually the most cost effective way to handle the situation and it guarantees the outcome that he wants - which is for her to live with us full time with the least amount of hassle.

So you have to decide what it is that you want.

It's expensive to take care of kids full time. I'm OK with the younger two staying at their mom's apartment and would not offer my house - even though we have a pool, internet, wi-fi, cable, etc. and she does not. We can't afford to pay her child support and still support them full time. We just can not. They are OK at their mom's every other week, eating her food and using her utilities.

I think you already know your solution.

Yeah, these are the issues - money and my time.

When they were smaller, there were other issues;  I couldn't leave them alone when I went out of town, even for a few hours, and I worried about them being with their mom - she's not getting any treatment.

But now those issues are pretty much gone.

I am paying child support based on 50/50, which does make me mad, but it's only for another 2 1/2 years.  I've thought about going back to court to get it reduced - not sure but I doubt if I'll do that.  If I did, she would probably either start taking the kids more, or lie about it.  The kids have always told people it's 50/50 - S15 in particular thinks it should be "fair" to their mom.

Most likely I'll just let it be.  It is a financial strain.

[Matt]

Oh I can understand this!  My ex- stays silent and never communicates about kid schedules anymore.  I also think she doesn't even remember what the court ordered schedule is either.  Which has worked out fine for me as I've gotten used to having S8 on all my time, and then 1/2 of hers now too!  But it is irritating when you want to be responsible about something, and the other side seems hell bent on not letting you.  JMHO, but I think the lack of communication is a combination of silent treatment and they get a control/attention kick out of it.  They like to be the center of attention, so they enjoy trying to make us come to them.  Adds to the sense of chaos (which they msitake as attention) they keep swirling around them.

I've gotten so I just make my plans to always include S8, so I'm always able to keep him.  He's reacting to it by always wanting to be with me, never with his mom, and he's openly disrespectful to her now about being with her.  I try to support him appropriately because the things he complains about sounds like a legitimate gripe to me while trying to stop the disrespect, but not making much headway currently.

Well the way we communicate about schedules - seems to be what works best - is I send an e-mail to her, cc:ing both kids, along the lines of "How about this - " and then propose a schedule for the next week or two.  We have a longer-term plan but things usually change because of my travel.  Usually she replies "OK".  Occasionally she objects for some reason and I make an adjustment.

We've tapered off so we very rarely talk any other way except e-mail.

There is some awkwardness for the kids at times - they don't know where they'll be when - but for the last few years I've encouraged them to speak up and influence the schedule so now they do that pretty well.  If there's a special reason they need to be here - like D16 has sleepovers with friends here, and they both need to be here to do homework online at times - they know to speak up and make it happen.

[FamilyLaw]

Matt,

This seems like a conversation you should be having with the kids.  Not your frustration with their mother, but your frustration with their schedules and demands.  Why doesn't your daughter have a job this summer?  Is she looking for one?  What plans do they have in place to fill their time?  How do they intend to get to the things they want to do and how do they intend to pay for those things?

I would have a conversation with them about putting together a plan for the summer and let them solve some of these problems.  At least your town is pretty bikeable and isn't 100 degrees at 8 a.m. 

[Matt]

Matt,

This seems like a conversation you should be having with the kids.  Not your frustration with their mother, but your frustration with their schedules and demands.  Why doesn't your daughter have a job this summer?  Is she looking for one?  What plans do they have in place to fill their time?  How do they intend to get to the things they want to do and how do they intend to pay for those things?

I would have a conversation with them about putting together a plan for the summer and let them solve some of these problems.  At least your town is pretty bikeable and isn't 100 degrees at 8 a.m. 

Yeah, we've talked about these very issues... .

D16 has been lobbying very hard for a car.  I told her, "We'll talk about it when school's out."  She has a 4.0 (out of 4) GPA after two years of high school, plus she runs track and cross-country, and helps around the house a lot;  she's a great kid.  But last year she started looking for work in April, so she had a job lined up by the time school ended;  this year, not so much.  So when she found a car she wanted, I said, "Not til you get a job".  She has money saved from before, but of course there's insurance, gas, etc.  She got very upset with me, but then calmed down and accepted that it's her responsibility to find work - not full-time maybe, but something.  Now she's looking harder.

S15 says he wants work too, but hasn't looked much.

So... . I give them lots of jobs around the house - inside and outside - cooking, cleaning, yardwork, etc. - and they do pretty well.  Over all, it's an OK situation.

(But my real beef is with the school system.  They're in a great school, but like most, it's only 9 months of the year - should be 12 in my view.)

This happened similarly in past years, but still caught me off-guard, because I thought we had a plan.  But I've learned to take the kids any time I can get them, which has meant 60% to 80% of the time, all year round, despite the 50/50 court order.  In the big picture, that's a good thing.  Just means some unpredictability at times... .

Yeah, it's a little warm here now but mostly very pleasant.  They can and do go on hikes, ride bikes, etc., any time of the day - not possible in some places... .

[Free One]

I get your vent. You love your kids and love having them around, but you reach a point where it's just frustrating to be the only responsible parent. I like to have things planned and budgeted, so it's frustrating to have things changed because the other parent doesn't want to put in the effort. They just expect us to pick up the pieces all the time and make sure the kids are taken care of. It gets old.

Have you looked into free school meals to help offset the cost of food? It's a federal program. There are a few schools in my area that provide breakfast and lunch Monday through Friday free to anyone 18 and under, no questions asked. They just show up and eat.

[Matt]

I get your vent. You love your kids and love having them around, but you reach a point where it's just frustrating to be the only responsible parent. I like to have things planned and budgeted, so it's frustrating to have things changed because the other parent doesn't want to put in the effort. They just expect us to pick up the pieces all the time and make sure the kids are taken care of. It gets old.

Have you looked into free school meals to help offset the cost of food? It's a federal program. There are a few schools in my area that provide breakfast and lunch Monday through Friday free to anyone 18 and under, no questions asked. They just show up and eat.

Yeah, that's it exactly.  I work from home most of the time, and get a bunch done - I can take a five-minute break and do laundry or the dishes - but when the kids are here all week I get much less done and it costs much more.

No, I haven't thought about free school meals - that's a good idea.  They're both pretty frugal about that - they fix their own lunches - we go to Wal-Mart over the weekend and get the stuff - not too expensive.  They eat breakfast at home - cereal - not too bad.  But over the summer, it's not just meals but snacks all the time - usually fruit and cheap stuff but it adds up.  I pay for all their medical costs, insurance, school costs, etc. - theoretically their mom should pay part but usually it ends up on me even though she makes good money and has government benefits.

But yeah, what gets under my skin isn't so much the money or the time, as the mildly abusive situation (which I suppose I've allowed to happen).  She knows I'll make things OK so everything gets put on me and I have to deal with it.  Works out best that way, just gets on my nerves sometimes... .

[Free One]

But yeah, what gets under my skin isn't so much the money or the time, as the mildly abusive situation (which I suppose I've allowed to happen).  She knows I'll make things OK so everything gets put on me and I have to deal with it.  Works out best that way, just gets on my nerves sometimes... .

This part irritates me too... . That's how I was treated pre-divorce, so it really gets on my nerves that my ex still does the same thing now post-divorce. All that fighting, expense, pain and I still didn't get to "escape" all of the abusive/oppressive/whatever-want-to-call-it situation. He knows I'll do whatever needs to be done for our son. It does always seem to work out, but aggravating in the process.

[david]

Matt, this is what helped me. I picture it as I am a single parent and the court system has taken my kids away from me for a given length of time and given them to a nut case whose sole purpose is to screw with them as much as possible. I refuse to let them destroy my kids and just keep figuring ways around it without involving anyone but the kids and me. This has helped me emotionally detach from ex and has helped me be a better parent. Ex still sends me passive/aggressive emails or emails that try to taunt me. I am really good at ignoring and addressing whatever issue that involves the children.

Just yesterday, ex sent me an email saying she took away S14's Ipad because it is too distracting for him and he can have it back next week when school ends. I bought the IPad for him for Christmas because ex took away their computer and printer at her place last November. S14 needed it to do a paper for English and couldn't do it because of that. I went to the school and explained what was going on. They thought I was nuts but ex sent an email to the teacher and basically backed up everything I said. Gotta love it. He got permission to use his Ipad at school and he was allowed to print everything there. Ex hated the solution and has fought it ever since.

I replied to her email that I would pick it up today when I picked the kids up at school and I would be respondsible for it until next week. S14 has an Ipad, an Ipod, and an Iphone so taking the Ipad away does nothing. The only difference is I bought the Ipad and that is the real issue.

The good thing to realize is that your ex knows you will take care of the kids no matter what. She knows you are a good dad and that is why she can trust you. Happy Father's Day.

[Matt]

I think at this point, if she tried to take away S15's iPod or iPhone, he probably wouldn't give them to her... .

For a while after we separated, when the kids were 8 and 10, there were bigger battles, but only one - when I moved to a different town for work and proposed to bring the kids with me - became a big fight.  Other stuff we managed to either work out, or just let each other do our own thing when the kids are with us, and that generally works OK.

Also those first few years, I genuinely worried about how being with their mom would affect them.  It had huge impact on my older stepkids who were raised by her and both have some serious issues as a result.  But over the years it's become clear that the only bad impact on S15 and D16 seems to be that they're protective of their mom and put her wants ahead of their own needs - not a good thing but not a big deal at least so far.

I do think she knows I'm a good father, and if she ever tried to alienate me from the kids, that wouldn't work - my relationships with them are very strong.  She's somewhat marginalized, by her own choice, but she still has the kids fairly often, when she wants to - pretty much the perfect situation from her point of view, and it's working OK for the kids too.  Just requires me to always look at the big picture and not let it bug me too much when I'm getting jerked around... .

[david]

I picked the kids up and we went to their mom's. Apparently, mom took his Ipad when he was sleeping. Yea, he wouldn't have let her take it. Well he rang the doorbell and the dog started barking. The dog will not stop until someone answers the door. He rang it several more times and the dog was no longer barking. S14 figured mom made the dog be quiet and mom would not answer the door. All she does is alienate him more when she does these things. S10 just listens and observes. When he does speak he pretty much has her figured out. He avoids confrontation with her at all costs and that concerned me but he doesn't do it with me or others so it is situational.

I think the best thing that happened for our kids was that we divorced. The kids got to see two households and they seem to be making choices as to which way is better. My SS's used to defend her but as they got older ( early 20's ) they began to make clearer choices. That wasn't good for her relationship with them.

[Matt]

I think the best thing that happened for our kids was that we divorced. The kids got to see two households and they seem to be making choices as to which way is better.

I don't hear my kids talking about this exactly, but as each issue comes up, it's pretty clear what contrast they see.

Mom makes as much money as me but chose an unpleasant neighborhood far from their school;  I chose a very beautiful, quiet and safe neighborhood within walking distance of their school.

She drives our old car and spends a lot to keep it running and put gas in it.  I got a newer, safer car that uses less gas and needs no maintenance.

She takes them out to eat more but doesn't have internet access.  I cook at home more - and ask the kids to cook some meals - and we can afford internet.

Etc.

Tons of dysfunctional choices, most of them pretty minor stuff, but it adds up.  All stuff she's smart enough to do better, but makes those choices for whatever reasons... .

The bottom line is, when we were married, there was no happy home.  Now they spend most of their time in a happy home.  I wish it was all the time;  putting up with some chaos around the schedule is one thing that has led to more time with me.

[DreamGirl]

My husband's mantra (for those who haven't heard it before):

"You can learn just as much from a bad example as you can a good one."  ~ Mr. DreamGirl