Scared of homicide-suicide if we get the restraining orders

[paxfamilia]

Anybody out there actually get a protection order for your children? If so I'd like to here from you, even if privately. Have a hearing 6/27, and the closre we get the more freaked out that we will get the restraining orders. When I had one on him years ago, I knew he wouldn't kill be because he still had the joy of forcing us to spend over 1/2 million dollars in 3-year long litigation about custody (and everything else he could make up).

But now, this may mean the end of control over me and the kids, and of his power, his public persona, and quite frankly, his very job and medical licensure. I am not telling anyone as far as licensure or his employment etc, but if they find out, who is going to keep a Pediatrician who beats and stalks (when they leave him) his own kids?

My God, I'm literally crawling out of my skin with fear. Want the r.o. as the family judge is the one hearing it and he needs to know (new to our case) what a monster this jackass is/has been to all 3 of us (especially since the monster has filed for sole custody and started up a whole new custody evaluation even though the oldest will be an adult by the time that gets heard in court).

The only thing lacking between say like mine and Nicole Brown Simpson's story is that OJ actually made threats to her with a weapon before he murdered her. (That, and i don't have a male interest, no Ron Goldman. It is so 'psychotic', though, that when my exUBPD/ASPD found out (late) from the kids that my second marriage ended in divorce (due in great part to all the continuous stress and litigation from the BPD), he literally threw out his second wife, who he had gone on a desperate search for one as soon as he found out from kids (who had hid it from him) that I had remarried.

But similarities with Nicole's story, the cops getting multiple times about the original stalking times (years ago), no arrest, no report, police report getting filed about recent stalking, cop no arrest, not even take it seriously, etc. Prosecutor stating felony stalking of minor would likely be downgraded to a misdeanor or 'disorderly conduct', etc. Sometimes I swear it would have been safer to live in the Dark Ages. At least then you didn't need someone's permission to leave with your kids, or carry whatever weapon you liked wherever you went.

I need my kids away from their dad permanently (they have already removed themselves from him last Dec.), but I need them to live, I need to live. I have this gut-wrenching intuition (based on him, his past behaviors, what's at stake for him) he might try a homicide (us)-suicide, and the only way that is avoidable is by leaving/hiding, but the court now wants us tied up in custody litigation/investigation.

We have a relocation hearing July 25, but that is one month out from the r.o. hearing June 27. Even if the judge grants the r.o.s, I doubt he will go ahead and rule that day on relocation (although he should as we are at great risk of fatal violence when he decompensates and realizes he could lose everything). If you all have been to court, you realize it's more about procedure, docket hockey, and avoiding open-ended questions to actually get to the truth than about real justice and basic safety of life (let alone liberty, or pursuit of happiness).

Any advice (other than skipping town when can and continuing my habit of concealed carry and range practice, and shotguns/long rifles at home)?

If that judge grants the r.o.s, but then states we have to stay in this state to finish the lengthy custody evaluation (which she stated could take 6-7 months just to complete and must be in at least 30 days before any hearing thereof), I CANNOT make my kids go to school in the fall. They are sitting ducks.

Help!

[Matt]

Do you have an attorney?

[paxfamilia]

Yes, Matt, I do.  13K down so far since January, and really no closer to solving this other than putting a whole bunch of stuff on a docket.

[Matt]

Well the suicide aspect, I would suggest just setting aside.  It's not in your control and not your responsibility.  If he is acting out in some way, like threatening suicide, then it would be right to prevent a child from being exposed to that.

The homicide part - if there are overt threats - "I'm going to do such-and-such" - especially if you can document that, then you can take it to the police.  In my state, such a threat is a crime in itself, even if he doesn't act on it - probably the same in other states too.

If there are no threats, or you can't document them, you might still be able to get a restraining order.  Make sure to only tell the court what you know, and you can say that you feel afraid, but careful not to go further than what you really know - talking about OJ and Nicole probably won't help!

Talk to your lawyer about how to accelerate the relocation aspect.  Might be possible to file a revised motion, asking the judge to rule that you can move temporarily, while the custody evaluation is underway.

If the judge knows your ex is a doctor, and if he is continuing to practice - if he has a job at a hospital which requires him to show up and do his job every day - it may be hard to convince the judge that your ex is dangerous.  Focus on exactly what you know that causes you concern right now.

And let me go out on a limb here - just thinking out loud!  What if you and your lawyer would work out a way to take a safe step forward, like regular supervised contact between the kids and their father - supervised by a professional, in a secure place chosen by the court.  Putting forward a well-thought-out proposal like that is likely to be viewed very positively by the court, and might lower everybody's blood pressure a little.

Then see how Dad does - does he follow through every time and have good visits with the kids?  Or does he find something else to fight about?  When a parent is given the opportunity to move forward, and doesn't do it, that may mean much more to the court than anything you can say... .

[paxfamilia]

The restraining orders hearing is actually for the kids.  He has beat them both.  He has not beat me since i left him in 2006, but he did break the restraining order several times (and I am attaching my 911 calls and the comments made by the custody evaluator about him breaking them and the witnesses).  No, a physician is too smart to leave evidence, will never be overt with threats.  When he stalked the kids he sent text messages about how much he loved them and missed them, but looked in his face like he wanted to kill.  when my daughter send him a text that he is an abuser, he responds with "how have I ever abused you"? Geez, let me counts the ways.

My problem is we need the RO, the judge needs to hear what we all have to say, the evidence.  However, that will likely drive the exBPD/ASPD mad, to violence I fear.

[Matt]

My problem is we need the RO, the judge needs to hear what we all have to say, the evidence.  However, that will likely drive the exBPD/ASPD mad, to violence I fear.

So if you have some evidence that he has hurt the kids, it probably won't be hard to get at least a temporary RO.

But your concern is, the RO will be just a piece of paper;  if he goes nuts he can still hurt them (or you).

What are you asking for the RO to say - that he can't come within X feet of any of the kids?  That he can't come to their school or your home?

Have you talked with the police, to find out what they can do to enforce it if it's granted?  That might give you more information about how things will really work.  (Not sure if it will make you feel better or worse though... . )

[momtara]

I think her fear is that no matter what she does, he is going to do something awful.  And frankly, it is hard to protect yourself until it actually happens, and then it's too late.  Your instincts tell you that he is more dangerous than anyone realizes.  You know him better than anyone.  Whether it comes to that or not, clearly you are worried.

I don't know what to tell you except maybe consult with a few more attorneys (free consultations), advise your kids on how to protect themselves, talk to the teachers and school so everyone is on the lookout?

I do hope you can move, get away, etc.  Maybe his ego will be big enough that he won't be able to stand the thought of people talking about his suicide or homicide.   

[ForeverDad]

I'm so sorry you're facing this dilemma.  I had to think about what to write first, I have a hard time figuring out what to contribute here - probably others too - other than give my support.

It's known that restraining orders are just that - a piece of paper.  It has only as much importance as the subject gives it.  In a small number of cases it doesn't have much impact.  We're all hoping your ex will be one of those who do listen to the judge - who hopefully speaks strongly to him - and keeps his distance.

Wherever you decide to stay you probably should set up a security system, they aren't all that expensive these days.  If you get surveillance video of him lurking around, not sure if he might do that but it would mean something.