What can I expect?

[papawapa]

I hired an attorney this morning and will be getting an emergency temporary full physical custody order tomorrow.

exBPD split me black two weeks ago and left the home we were living in together. The day before her 24d broke up with this guy she had been dating for six months. The next day my ex leaves the house and moves in with daughters exBF. She is now convinced she is "in love" with him. She refuses to acknowledge that she chose this man over her daughter, two grandchildren, and our two kids. When asked about what she is doing to her daughter she said, "She'll get over it."

I had minimal contact with her for the first four days she was gone. She started coming back around the house and sleeping with me, leading me on for about a week. Last Thur her daughter showed up unexpectedly when ex was at the house. She confessed and told daughter she would go with her and get her stuff and leave him. She went to his house and made her daughter leave. The last time I saw her was last Friday. She told me it was over and she was done with me, did not want to see me again.

That night I packed up the kids and moved into my parents home. I went five days NC and then talked to her yesterday morning. This morning I talked to her again. She told me she missed the kids and that she wants to "have them" this weekend. I asked her where she was going to bring them and she said, "The only place I have to bring them." She thinks it is perfectly ok to bring my kids around this man that they had started building decent relationships with while he was dating their sister. It is just sick.

Today I hired an attorney and will be getting an emergency temporary custody order tomorrow. I know when she finds out that she cant do what she wants with the kids she is going to flip out.

[marbleloser]

Can you move back into the marital home?You need to request exclusive rights if you can,since she's moved into "whatever he is's" house.

Also,change the locks to the marital home tomorrow! And,don't sleep with her ever,never,ever again!

Sexual intercourse constitutes "forgiveness" in the courts eye.

No more communication except by email.Allow her to speak to the kids once daily,to show that you can be civil concerning the kids.

Talk her daughter into testifying for you if you can.(Spurned woman and all )

Take extra good care of those kids.Their world is turned upside down.Get them in therapy.Mom pays half.

<edit> Also,get a digital recorder and have it running any time you're around stbx or her daughter.

Not only is it for your safety against false allegations,but it'll help you remember things that were said.

[marbleloser]

Have you started a journal documenting how your day goes with your kids?

Start,if you haven't already,taking pictures of you and the kids doing things together.

Keep ALL receipts.Groceries,utilities,dr visits,movies with the kids,gas for your vehicle,etc.,,

You want a portfolio of documentation to paint a picture of your life with the kids.

Keep pictures they draw for you,notes they write,things they make for you.

This might all come in handy down the line.This will likely play out over a long period of time.Seeking Balance gave you good advice on the Leaving board.It's a marathon.Start preparing and pace yourself.

[Matt]

How old are the kids?

[papawapa]

Our son is 11, daughter is 10.

[Matt]

So what arrangement will you ask the court for?

[papawapa]

I talked to my ex and she took the day off work expecting to come get the kids early today. I had to make up a lie that they were going to busy all day. I asked her what she meant by having the kids this weekend and she fully expects them to go and stay the next two nights with her. I am so happy I got a lawyer and will be able to prevent my kids from being in her care for now. but at the same time I know this is going to cause her to rage and am a little afraid of what will come from that.

[ForeverDad]

Reality check... .   As astonishing and even shocking as your spouse's behaviors have been, be aware that family court may see what she did as a ho-hum issue.  I'm not saying court is right, I'm just saying the court may not see it as big an issue as you do.  So try to have backup strategies in mind.

For example, she moved out, so as the others suggested, get official possession of your home.  Why?  BPD relationships are volatile, "on-again, off-again" and prone to implosion, she's likely to come back.  If she does, it will be her trying to get you kicked out (or win you back into her chaotic life) and you will be at a much greater disadvantage than you are now.  Even if your residence is only rented, likely she could get the court to force you to pay her rent if she returned and kicked you out.  Yes, it can get very complicated, lots of ways this could play out... .

What I've come to conclude is that many family courts view the parents' behaviors in two categories... . adult behaviors and parenting behaviors.  And often the adult behaviors aren't seen as greatly affecting parenting behaviors as you might think.  Two parenting issues that the court sees as 'actionable' are substantive abuse or substantive neglect.  That's what my court wrote in its decision in my case.  I might add that 'risk of endangerment' may also be a factor considered, such as illegal drugs, misuse of drugs/alcohol or contact with a felon.

Sadly, lifestyle extremes are not as much of a legal issue as you may think.  You can try, I'm just not sure what position or action your court will take.  In decades past the hot-button topics were infidelity or closet behaviors.  Today few states care what you do as an adult and the hot button issues today are 'substantive' child abuse and child neglect.

Yes, you may very well get a temporary (ex parte) or initial order.  But it will be reviewed by the judge in a few weeks when both parents can appear and present their cases more fully.  That is when the judge may set a parenting schedule that will likely last for the duration of the divorce case.  Have multiple back up strategies for various scenarios.  Believe me, you'll need them.  She is almost sure to make very emotionally convincing (but factually unsubstantiated) allegations against you.  Emotion/tears vs fact/logic is an unfair fight, so be prepared.

[papawapa]

Today was a major disappointment. The lawyer failed to do what she said she was going to do and get the case before a judge today. All she managed to do was get the cased filed and it is waiting for the judge on Monday morning.


The ex has not pressed seeing the kids at this point. She called when the kids and I were at my sister's house. The plan for tonight is to ignore her. Tomorrow they kids are going to spend the day with their sister. The task at hand is to make it until Monday. My fingers are crossed.

[ForeverDad]

A legal loophole my ex used against me was the fact - as I understand it, I'm not a lawyer - that both parents have equal but unspecified rights as parents.  'Unspecified' is the key.  For example, if your spouse called the police (as I did) and begged for them to accompany her to see her children (as I virtually did) they'd likely tell her (as they told me) that all they do is respond to emergencies* and try to defuse any immediate incidents, they leave the fixes to the courts.  That's all they would do without a written court order specifying custody or a parenting schedule, even a temporary one.

* For example, the police told me they wouldn't accompany me to see my son when my ex blocked my parenting at a time we had no court orders.  But I was assured that if I did go knock on her door and she called 911, then they'd come rushing to protect her.  I, as a member of the male persuasion, had no interest in risking arrest, so I kept my distance.

My point is that she can't force the children away from you, not without a written court order.  Yes, she could get the police to pressure you to "be reasonable" or "do the right thing" but likely no more than that.  Of course, the more you can keep any contact or communications from becoming a confrontational incident, the better.

Just get through the weekend.  Her ability to sabotage you over the weekend is limited.  Doesn't mean she won't make a false allegation of some sort.  So far your delay tactic is working.  Let's see if you can make it last through the weekend.

[papawapa]

As things stand right now I have no legal standing to keep custody of my children in this state, Minnesota. We were unmarried when the kids were born and despite having signed  Recognition of Parentage and my name being the father on their Birth Certificates by law I have no legal rights to my kids. If she wants to she can come here with the police and take the kids. There is nothing I can do until I get in from of a judge and am adjudicated there legal father.

She has not called for them yet today. I'm not sure she even really wants to see them. From the conversation I had with her my impression is that she is using this threat of bringing the kids to stay with her as a weapon to eff with me.

The kid's sister is picking them up and taking them overnight. It looks like I will get through today without a problem, crossing my fingers.

[marbleloser]

Not sure if you know about this website,so here's a link. Maybe your atty is preparing the proper paperwork?

www.mncourts.gov/default.aspx?page=513&item=53&itemType=packetDetails

[papawapa]

Thanks for the link. All of the papers have been filed. The court has the case and I have the name of the judge who has the case. There should be no problem getting the temporary order signed by the judge first thing Monday.

[papawapa]

We made it through the weekend! The temporary order should be in place today and her being able to threaten to take the kids to where she is staying will be gone.


The best words that came out of her mouth this weekend were when she was yelling at me telling me how she was going to fight for the kids in court. I hope she means it.

[marbleloser]

Great news! Glad you got to keep the kiddos!

Yes,she'll fight.Expect her to.Mine is,but not because she really wants the kids(before filing she was texting me all the time asking me to come get the kids).

It's a "saving face" kind of fight,added with the "I'm their mother and no judge will ever take kids from their mother" kind of mentality.

This is where the mudslinging will begin,so be prepared,but don't respond.Once you get the order,stick to it completely.Keep building status quo.

[papawapa]

The judge signed the temporary custody order! My kids are safe from her threats. We have court on Friday. The rest of the week should be interesting.

[Matt]

Wow - congratulations!

What will happen in court Friday?

[papawapa]

The temporary will be replaced with a new order. There are a few possibilities as to what may happen. I should retain primary custody regardless. The judge can keep her to no parenting time until she completes an alcohol and drug assessment and a psych eval. The judge may grant her restricted parenting time which would be she can only have supervised visitation and has to do the assessments to get more time. We will be fighting for the first option.

[ForeverDad]

Something I've noticed... . While the court may impose restrictions until a person is evaluated or meets some level of minimum expectations, once reached the court is inclined to drop the matter.  The problem is that relapses or later noncompliance are likely to reoccur.  remember, it's a pattern of thinking or behavior.  But court may expect you to wait until it happens and then file again to start it all over again.  What that means is that courts often don't consider long term monitoring, they seem to be more inclined for quick fixes and if that doesn't work then you start all over again seeking restrictions or supervision almost from scratch.  Be aware of that perspective and ponder how to address it in a reasonable way.

[Matt]

One member here (or the judge in his case) found an ingenious solution:  The court order stated that Ms. BPDEx must obtain therapy to discover why she made false accusations against Mr. bpdfamily.comMember, and return to the court to explain that, and until then she would see the child in supervised visits, at her expense.

First, she didn't follow through on all the visits, and complained about the cost.

Then, when it was time for her to return and explain to the court what she had learned, she repeated the accusations, and failed to disclose anything new about her own psychological issues or progress in therapy.

So the supervised visits continued, and it wasn't Dad's fault - Mom was given a path to more normal custody and she didn't take it.

[papawapa]

I talked to her this morning and she knew she would be served today. She war in her rage mode, absolutely irate, accusing me of trying to keep the kids from her. Then she went on to blame me for when she left her other four kids with their dad to "take care of me." The kids and I have been living at my parents house for a week and a half. She has hardly tried to contact them, never having called more than once per day, not bothering to call on some days. Now tonight she called them earlier in the evening and just now before bed. She has it in her head that she is going to be able to have the kids this weekend and asked them what time she could get them on Friday. She is bathit crazy out of touch with reality. Court will be interesting to say the least... .

[Matt]

I talked to her this morning

Why?

[papawapa]

Because I am a masochist. I am addicted to the pain she causes me. I guess I really don't know. I felt guilty having to say all those bad things about her in the affidavit. I knew her seeing the truth would hurt her. I wanted to let her know that she would be served at work. I don't know. I have this fantasy/dream that somehow this court stuff will get her to see the light and she will get the help she needs and I will have my family back. I am a mess. 

[Matt]

Because I am a masochist. I am addicted to the pain she causes me. I guess I really don't know. I felt guilty having to say all those bad things about her in the affidavit. I knew her seeing the truth would hurt her. I wanted to let her know that she would be served at work. I don't know. I have this fantasy/dream that somehow this court stuff will get her to see the light and she will get the help she needs and I will have my family back. I am a mess. 

Well you sound like about the same kind of mess I was.  It's a process, getting from where you are to a better place.  One step at a time.

It's reasonable to want to spare the other party embarrassment.  You could tell your lawyer to tell her lawyer that she will be served, or you could write her a simple e-mail:  "You will be served today at work."  Of course if you tell her that, there is a risk she will avoid service somehow, but that can probably be managed - other ways to do it if needed.

My suggestion would be, communicate legal stuff through your lawyer, and everything else by e-mail.  3 sentences max.  Facts and information only - no emotions or abstractions.  Phone only for emergencies.

[papawapa]

Thank you for all the support Matt. She was served at work yesterday. I sent her a short email telling her that I am only communicating that way with her.

[ForeverDad]

I talked to her this morning

Why?

We often try to be the fair or reasonable person.  If we don't put some limits to it, it can expose us to more conflict than is necessary.

I felt guilty having to say all those bad things about her in the affidavit. I knew her seeing the truth would hurt her.

It's time to shed the feelings of guilt.  The guilt is one way she can manipulate you, even control you.  What happened, happened.  Telling the truth, well, there's nothing wrong about telling the truth.  In this case, it's necessary.

I have this fantasy/dream that somehow this court stuff will get her to see the light and she will get the help she needs and I will have my family back.

Fantasies and dreams are for when you're getting married and while the relationship is healthy and functional.  Now, facing the implosion of an unhealthy and dysfunctional marriage, there's only room for reality.  Yes, she might see the light, but if she hasn't by now after all these years, you surely can't count on it.  It would take years of therapy and odds are stacked against you for that to happen.  It might, but beware of hoping your eggs will hatch when more than likely they're golf balls.

[Matt]

I sent her a short email telling her that I am only communicating that way with her.

Even when the subject is tighter communication, your instinct is to reach out to her and communicate.  That needs to change.  There is no reason to tell her this - just do it.

Think of taking a step back, away from the relationship.  Then another one, and another.  Communication is essential to a strong relationship, but it only keeps you in a bad one once you've decided it can't be fixed.

One of the virtues of e-mail is that in typing out your thoughts, you have the chance to edit before sending, and pretty often, I find that when I take out everything that I don't really need to communicate to my ex, there is nothing left in the note, and I don't send it.