At a loss for what to do about my 17 yo DD

[findhope]

It has been a long time since I have been on here. My daughter was in RTC, but we pulled her when the center told me that they did not believe my daughter had BPD and that the psychologist that diagnosed her was unethical to have given her the diagnosis. The center also refused to give me a copy of her treatment plan, or discharge plan etc, and every therapist call discussed some new issue that was going to be discussed such as her sexual identity confusion or possible eating disorder. I know my daughter might be promiscuous, but is not confused about her identity, she is happily bisexual. I also doubted she had eating disorder, she had just been home for 5 days and I say not signs of eating issues. But she was also struggling with constipation for months (and had been to doctors, but they ran no tests, but put her on all sort of IBS drugs). When they told me she had skipped dinner and that was the reason for the concern. When I asked if one- was it a meal she did not like?, or two- when was her last BM, was she just backed up and not comfortable eating more without relief? Her therapist got very defensive. They refused to include much DBT which they had sold us on as a something she would get there. The last straw was when My DD over heard a phone call the therapist was making in which she was discussing me and my husband that put us in a very negative light and said her goal was to make sure my DD stayed at least until she reached 18, and maybe they could convince her not to sign herself out. Even though my daughter lies a lot, she mentioned things in her email to me she only could have known if she really overheard the T because she mentioned things I had said during a private call earlier that day. When the four of us were on a family call she asked us why my DD knew certain tings, I mentioned that she had heard the T talking. First the T tried to deny it until my DD confronted her and told her "I heard you yesterday when I was coming over to this building to get the notebook I left at such and such time. She knew she was caught and sounded like she was about to cry as she said she felt so bad my DD had heard that. The fact that she denied it first was the last straw of us since good morals and accountability was demanded of the girls, I expect the same from her T. First I demanded another T, but the center said they could not accommodate that. They gave us 48 ours to get across the country to get her since we would not work with that woman any more.

Now that my DD is home, she is worse than she has ever been other than she is clean and sober. Before she came home she agreed that she needed DBT, and said she liked the little bit she got at the RTC. She started going to sobriety meetings right away and faithfully. She went to the intake at the outpatient DBT group, but by one week later was saying F$*# DBT. She is out of control with boys and unprotected sex. She in upset she no longer has a car, and has let anyone who will listen know that she is being treated unfairly. When she has been given the family car as an opportunity to earn trust, she has never been home on time, one night we actually drove around until we found her in the back of the car with a kid from school. She refuses to go to therapy, and when I asked the T about it, she said my DD made it clear that she did not think she needed it because she was going to AA and had a sponsor. She ran away for a week, but begged to come home when she wore out her welcome at her friends. Many of my friends have told me she was calling them saying we told her to leave, and after her step dad got violent with her. It was the opposite, the day she left, she got in her ST face and he kept backing up saying she was asaulting him and if she did not stop he was calling the police. she left when he picked up the phone. I just don't know what to do when she refuses help, but is not an adult. I can't live this way, but I can't throw her out since she in a minor. Any advice?

My DD agreed she like the little bit of DBT she was getting and thought it helped. She also 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[vivekananda]

dear findhope,

It is good that you have come back to the boards  It sounds like you are feeling the stress of a really difficult situation. It seems that the rtc was more than unhelpful. Can they really refuse to give you a copy of the treatment plan or discharge plan? That doesn't seem right at all.

I suspect the thing to do would be to come up with some alternative treatments for your dd to chose from eh? Is there a DBT program nearby? Have you investigated neurofeedback therapy? Is there a T she would want to work with? Have you investigated local options?

I think though that it could really help for you to work on developing skills to help you with your relationship with your dd, especially validation and boundaries. Here are two links that are worth investigating:

Validation: Tools and techniques

BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence

It is good that your dd is clean and sober. That is a big achievement. It seems that to help keep it that way and to improve on the situation for yourself, your family and her, perhaps it is opportune to look at what you can do. Remember those wise old words:

Give me the strength to change what I can, the grace to accept what I can't and the wisdom to know the difference between the two.

Cheers,

Vivek    

[findhope]

Thank you for the reply Vivek . Things have changed in the last week. My DD took my car without permission and on the way home wrecked that car into our other car while pulling into the driveway. She caused $$$$ in damage to both cars. Without yelling we told her this was serious and expensive and we could not have this sort of behavior and she should not have searched through my things to find the keys and should not have taken my car without permission especially since she was grounded from driving. She flipped out yelling that she could not live some place where she was not trusted and how I never validate her. I guess that is where I am at a loss for how to deal with her. In therapy sessions, I understand validating her feelings and the work she is doing. What is there to validate when someone goes through your things, takes the car that does not belong to her and smashed two cars all because she wanted to get a candy from the store. She packed her bags and moved out. I have no idea where she is living. She has blocked me from seeing most of the posts on her facebook, but she does not realize that her profile is set to public, so everyone else can. Now my dog has a facebook page so I can at least see that she is alive.

As far as DBT, that was the plan that she would go to the outpatient DBT program here. She agreed, but as soon as she got home and met a sponsor who told her and I all her therapy work would come from step work because other therapy does not work she said f*#^ DBT and will not go now. They have a group for family members but only if the child is in a DBT program. I wish there was a group to support people who have a loved one who refuses help.     Thank you for the links, that is a start.

[Reality]

Hello findhope,

As far as DBT, that was the plan that she would go to the outpatient DBT program here. She agreed, but as soon as she got home and met a sponsor who told her and I all her therapy work would come from step work because other therapy does not work she said f*#^ DBT and will not go now. They have a group for family members but only if the child is in a DBT program. I wish there was a group to support people who have a loved one who refuses help.     Thank you for the links, that is a start.

What do you mean by step work?  There is a program called STEPPS, which has been created to help pwBPD and I have heard from people who have taken the course that it is very helpful.  Is that what you mean by step work? 

There is a lot of confusion and troubles for you right now.  It is difficult. 

Have you read Valerie Porr's book, Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder: A Family Guide For Healing and Change?  Many people have found it helpful.  Another good book on BPD is by Shari Manning.

Take care of yourself and keep posting... .

Reality

[Vivgood]

What is there to validate when someone goes through your things, takes the car that does not belong to her and smashed two cars all because she wanted to get a candy from the store.

This makes me laugh, in a sad-ironic-incomprehensible-to-normal-people kind of way  

Think of it this way: you are ON FIRE. Everybody pretends you are not. They keep you away from any source of water. There is a little puddle  of run-off by the 7-11. In desperation, you steal your moms car and drive to the 7-11 to see if you can stick at least a toe in and put out a little of the fire. Imagine the utter relief of your little toe NOT being on fire for several minutes. Wouldn't you do similarly desperate things to put out a little fire on YOU?

You can validate feeling desperate to get a little bit of "feel-good" when the only feelings she has naturally are torturous, right?

But she can't steal money, cars, etc. Understand the motive, disallow the action.

I don't think that 12-steps is a bad system for BPDs. I think pretty much anybody can benefit from a support system which encourages self-accountability. people with BPD channel blame/shame as a default so it feels that way whenever they are asked to look fully at themselves, but that doesn't mean there is no value in doing so.

I think your DD did what she needed to do to survive her own massive dysregulation. I think there is little-to-nothing you can do for her directly at this point. What you can do, and that will be extremely helpful to her indirectly, is work on your own boundaries and self-care. Living with an out-of-control BPD kid is traumatic, it really is. Feel OKAY about acknowledging that and taking time/energy/money to heal YOUR pain. Its valid. Then you can work from a place of strength and health on creating boundaries that will work when DD comes back... . without this, you are likely to end up repeating the same chaotic cycle. The tools here are good, and getting a therapist specifically for only you is really helpful too.

When does she turn 18?

vivgood

[muffetbuffet]

OMG... . sounds so much like my house only our dd is only 16 (only 618 days until she turns 18).  Daughter was in an RTF and doing well.  Has been back home for 8 months and things are crazy here.  There is drama 24/7.  She is at a point that she wants out of the house in the worst way as we have tried to keep her accountable for her actions.  Just as in your situation, how do you deal with the stress and worry of a minor being on her own?  We are so afraid for her safety and at the same time are afraid of what she will get into.  How much of all of this will come back on us as parents because we were not able to keep her at home until she was 18? 

[findhope]

What is there to validate when someone goes through your things, takes the car that does not belong to her and smashed two cars all because she wanted to get a candy from the store.

Think of it this way: you are ON FIRE. Everybody pretends you are not. They keep you away from any source of water. There is a little puddle  of run-off by the 7-11.

That makes a lot of sense Vivgood, It frustrates me because there was a "puddle of run off" in the pantry, and another in her bedroom. So I know it was not about needing something from the store. Her fire was about being told she was grounded from the car (after I found her out after curfew having sex in the back of the car). She was on fire because it is not fair that she does not have her own car and freedom to come and go as she pleases. (I might add that she has gone through two of her own cars, and if I add the amount of time she has been allowed to drive since she got her license it adds up to 4 months and she has had wrecked 6 cars)

Hello findhope,

As far as DBT, that was the plan that she would go to the outpatient DBT program here. She agreed, but as soon as she got home and met a sponsor who told her and I all her therapy work would come from step work because other therapy does not work she said f*#^ DBT and will not go now. They have a group for family members but only if the child is in a DBT program. I wish there was a group to support people who have a loved one who refuses help.     Thank you for the links, that is a start.

What do you mean by step work?  There is a program called STEPPS, which has been created to help pwBPD and I have heard from people who have taken the course that it is very helpful.  Is that what you mean by step work? 

There is a lot of confusion and troubles for you right now.  It is difficult. 

Have you read Valerie Porr's book, Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder: A Family Guide For Healing and Change?  Many people have found it helpful.  Another good book on BPD is by Shari Manning.

Take care of yourself and keep posting... .

Reality

I will check out those books. By Step work, I mean Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous. She has been very involved with that since she has been home. It is her new obsession, and while she did use drugs and alcohol, and could use the help of a 12 step program, she is greatly exaggerating her use because addict is her new identity. I just can't stand that her sponsor told her that therapy was bad and steps are the ONLY way to heal her life.

OMG... . sounds so much like my house only our dd is only 16 (only 618 days until she turns 18).  Daughter was in an RTF and doing well.  Has been back home for 8 months and things are crazy here.  There is drama 24/7.  She is at a point that she wants out of the house in the worst way as we have tried to keep her accountable for her actions.  Just as in your situation, how do you deal with the stress and worry of a minor being on her own?  We are so afraid for her safety and at the same time are afraid of what she will get into.  How much of all of this will come back on us as parents because we were not able to keep her at home until she was 18? 

Muffet,

trying to hold my DD accountable for her actions is really why she finally left. A few days before the car incident she stayed out all night and seemed to think there would be no consequences because she is almost 18. We did not even know what consequences to use anymore because nothing fazed her. I am worried for her safety, and it is hard to not run down and report her as a runaway. But I realized that bringing her back home was not going to help her any. Of course unlike your DD, she will be 18 in a few short weeks. When she was in RTC we planned on her staying there at least until she graduated high school and maybe until she signed her self out on her 18th birthday. Unfortunately the center did not believe minors could have BPD even though she already had the Dx, and she was not getting the DPT we were promised, then the lie the T told in front of my DD was just too much. We thought we had a good plan in place and that my DD was on board when we brought her home early. But is reality we did not have much choice since we were asked to pick her up with no notice when I asked for a different T. Since she was over 17.5 years another placement was going to be difficult.

I understand how hard it is when you DD is so young to worry about her safety. My DD was in RTC for 11 months and then came home. Did well briefly, but then got much worse and began using heroin and meth. We immediately sent her to wilderness for her safety while we figured out what to do next. We had hoped home, but the psychologists said RTC would be better. The Wilderness she went to was fabulous (she really loved it too other than getting bored with the food) and I think she would have gotten much more out of it if I had sent her there when I first saw things going down hill and my instincts were telling me to do it. When I first looked into it she was not using drugs, but I chickened out thinking things were not bad enough. One month later she began going down her list of "got to try this". It took her 2 month to get to shooting up meth. Luckily that was something she was not able to hide. When it comes to safety issues, trust your instincts. With two more years to go I don't know how to deal with keeping her home. Because of the drug use I felt I had not choice but to send her someplace she would be safe. If she had not done the drugs I am guessing she would have run away for some other reason. She did at one point try to move into the dorms at her school "for her safety". So I try to hold out hope that her intelligence will overrule her impulsivity. I remind myself daily that it her life and I can not control her actions. Now that she is out of the house I worry, but my life have become more manageable. I was just as worried when she was here. I am much more at peace. I know she has done a lot to hurt my reputation and tells anyone who will listen that she is abused, but now I no longer worry that she will make some new report to the State about some new made up story. So I focus on those things and check her fb once a day for signs of life.

[muffetbuffet]

Findhope:  One day at a time I guess is what has to happen.  I also posted under the subject of emancipation as we had such a crazy night here.  Police and crisis team were here.  It is almost as if when daughter came home from RTF she was doing so well that the expectation of those around her (family,therapist, psychiatrist, school, etc) was that she should be able to keep up that pace of life.  In reality,she was not able to do so.  It is almost as if she has destroyed all that she has worked for and we are back to square one.  As far as we know there are no drugs involved this time around, but the behaviors are more aggressive than ever.  She flipped over a recliner chair yesterday in an attempt to hit we with it.  She has damaged the doors on the bathroom and her bedroom.  Just getting more nervous about where we are headed.   

[vivekananda]

Dear findhope,

How is it at home now? I hope things have settled a little.

I have been thinking that the book by Valerie Porr: "Overcoming BPD" may be a wise purchase for you. It is a book written by a parent of a daughter with BPD and she understands the dilemmas that we as parents face. It is an excellent introductory book into those important things we need to know, including the tools we use to help us in our relationships: boundaries and validation. Have you read it? I would highly recommend it.

Cheers,

Vivek      

[Reality]

Too funny... . steps means the 12 Steps... . Ah ha!  Nonetheless, the STEPPS programme is a great outpatient program for pwBPD.  So I was not totally mis-stepping... .

This parenting is very tricky... . how much abrasion and professional detachment and how much validating and mentalization... . it reminds me always of a dance... . stong boundaries... . and yet radical openness to feelings and different perspectives and then the safety and health issues... .

I keep thinking of lbjnitx's dd wonderful (literally) experience at Falcon Ridge in Utah.  I wonder if these are kids who simply need a village of kind adults to raise them.  They are too complex and too exhausting for the nuclear family to raise.  Where is the kind corner store owner who takes a kid into their life?  The wise old man on the street.

I was reading a book totally unrelated to BPD, actually about God, religion and atheism etc and the author was talking about his son's experience in the Marines.  Now as a Canadian, nothing seems more strange to me, bit it got me thinking because he showed how the rigorous training develops a sense of caring for others in the group, of becoming selfless in the interests of one's fellow man.  It builds character.  Once again, it takes a village. 

Musings... .

Reality

[muffetbuffet]

Reality:  Interesting comments.  We noticed when our daughter was living at the RTF she really talked about everyone as her "family".  The kids all stood up for each other.  OF course there were the normal arguments and they did not all get along all of the time, but there was a real group mentality.  When one adult missed something there was always someone else to pick up the pieces.  You are right it is so very difficult for a nuclear family to raise these children.  At the current time, we only have our daughter at home as son is an adult.  It takes everything my husband and I both have to keep up with the daily "drama" that surrounds my daughter's life. 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders