i tried to set a boundary but not feeling very good about it

[six]

so after coming on this board a little while ago and doing a lot of reading of books, articles and workshops about setting boundaries, I thought i should try it out.

my ds25 has been raging at me for the last few weeks and he told me that he feels the urge to rage when he is driving from my house to his grandparents bec the trip takes two hours and he is resentful that he can not just stay here whenever he wants (he left his own apartmt which he can afford bec he does not want to "waste" rent money)

i really wanted to be free and safe from his raging but I was scared of what it would mean if I told him I would not tolerate it anymore

As I am typing these words, I can not fully beleive what I am writing

I decided to take a tiny baby step and tell him that i would no longer take his phone calls or read his texts when he is lashing out at me.  he tried to get me to stay on the phone but i insisted that i had to get off and i would see him in person in a few days.  he called me every 10 minutes for a few hours but i did not pick up the phone.

the good part was that he did not leave me any raging messages like he has done in the past. 

the next day he called me and I took a chancce and answered the phone.  he sounded so sad and pathetic.  he did not say anything about what had happend the day before.  i know that it is correct to not tolerate him raging at me on the phone, but i still feel bad

grateful for this place to share

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

Sometimes setting boundaries causes us to have fears... . "what will they do if I set a boundary?" "What if they hurt themselves... . or worse?" "etc... .


While it may have been stressful and scarry... . set a boundary you did.  It may take time for your ds to respect this boundary and even benefit from it so stay strong and believe that you deserve to take care of yourself.

 

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, six   

I'm really glad to hear that you've dipped your toe into the boundary "pool" and didn't drown!    I think you did great, and I hope that you don't stay sad too long about it... . When you stick to it and start to see positive changes in the way your son relates to you, it will become easier and easier. Then you can keep going deeper and deeper and have more of your needs met     Do you now feel that the next time he is (possibly) verbally abusive, you will be able to uphold this boundary once again to let him know for sure that you mean it? Because, that will be an important 2nd step, now that you've taken the first   

I'm sorry that he's still so hard on you and your family, and I know that it will take time for things to get better... . But, you know, it took 25 years to get to this point, so you can't expect change to happen too quickly. But the change is now beginning with you, and he will have to respond by changing, too. It's just the way the world works... . Keep reading and posting and learning here, and I really do see the possibility of things getting better for you, your son and your family   

[Grieving_Sister]

Setting your boundary might be scary and make you second guess yourself, but you did a very brave thing. A good thing for the both of you. Good job.

[jellibeans]

six... . I think you have taken a baby step forward... . that is key... . congrats to you. This can only help your ds... .  

[Kate4queen]

That was really brave of you.

Just remember your being strong will help him more than you caving in the long run.

[Reality]

You did a great job!  Stayed true to your intention not to answer the phone.  Your son sounded sad the next day, which is understandable, as he had to face his own real feelings, instead of defaulting to anger.  Anger is an easy emotion to express when someone else is around.  When no-one is there, he has to face his own vulnerability.  It is okay to feel vulnerable and sad.  He is living with his feelings, not easy for a sensitive person, yet necessary. 

Boundaries allow our pwBPD to stay with their own feelings, instead of projecting them on others.  By owning his own sadness, he has become stronger.  Projections weaken a person.  Inappropriate behavior weakens a person's character. 

You made your son stronger, by staying true to your own needs.

Reality

[capecod]

Six,  I'm right there with you ... . fearful of what will happen when I set boundaries, but fearful of what will happen if I don't.

Reality, thank you for your last post, it is helpful.

[six]

wondering if anyone has any experience with this:

I have posted before about my son raging at me. he does it on the phone, thru texts and emails and in person

I have put a boundary in place that I will not open texts or emails from him and I will not answer the phone when he is raging

trying to figure out how to put a boundary in place when he rages at home

I know that boundaries are about what I will tolerate, and what I am willing or not willing to do

they are not about controlling what he does

so if he rages at home, I thought I could go into my room and lock the door or else I could leave the house  (dont like the idea of putting myself in "prison" while he has free reign). my real concern is that I have other kids and a dh who live in the house.  if i lock myself in the room or leave, they will still be out there with the monster raging.  also his rages generally last for about 3 minutes.  by the time i would leave home, he will be finished.

wondering if anyone has any ideas?

really dont want to get the police involved but when i think of trying to put an end to the in-person raging in my house, that seems to be where things will end up.

tx in advance for any ideas

[Thursday]

Hi six,

At least for now, I like your idea of removing yourself from the situation, either by leaving OR by locking yourself in your bedroom. Unless he is threatening you with physical violence or himself with harm or hopefully not harming you or putting his hands on you in any way (throwing things, pushing, blocking you from moving) I'm not sure the police will be able to do much since you report that his rages are of a short duration.

I'm wondering how old your other kids are? If they are small you could gather them up and lock them in with you. If they are older you can discuss with them what they want to do... . maybe they would want to go with you or lock themselves in their own rooms.

Giving your pwBPD a chance to cool down can often defuse the rage to the point where you can function again. It also keeps the non from doing or saying something they might later regret. It's a really important step, just like setting boundaries. It's beneficial to have a plan in place before the rage occurs.

When my BPDSD21 was a teen and lived with us, during calm times we would discuss her rages. She reported feeling and being out of control and didn't want to do anything she would later regret. We were able to put her in touch with the feelings of becoming out of control and she would go and throw rocks in the pond behind our house with the idea of putting the rage into the rocks and getting rid of them. Now that she is older and not living with us, not in therapy any more, she doesn't practice these principals. Maybe with your son still under your roof (that's right?) you can try to help him find some tools that work for him... .

Good luck with this and the setting of other boundaries. It's a good step in the right direction even if all you can accomplish is to feel safer yourself.

thursday

[Reality]

IMHO, the rage means your son is emotionally dysregulated... . you need to validate his feelings when he is raging... . the rage means he has lost his cognitive functioning... . he is stuck in his limbic system... . the raging means unbearable emotional pain... . validate and watch... . his cognition will re-connect... . and he will start to make a lot of sense, if you listen... . make comments like hmmmmmm... . and mean it... . be curious about his thinking... . if you listen long enough you will understand that he makes sense; however, you have to listen with curiousity and NO JUDGMENT... . if you use this as a technique, it will go wrong... . if you are sincere and truly loving and curious, he will sense that you are and respond in a very mature, reflective manner... . these pwBPD are so frustrated because no-one understands them... .

As well, you need a good support system, so that you have the energy and resilience to do this very hard work... .

If you read qcaroir's posts, you will see the difference it makes for her to have a support group validating her... . we are not talking about people who smile and say hello and how are you but don't really care, we are talking about truly KIND people... . could be anyone... . the key is kindness and helpfulness... . people who know you and with whom you feel totally comfortable re eating your true struggles... . qcaroir could give you more information on how she created a web of support for herself... . IMHO THIS SUPPORT COULD BE QUITE ECLECTIC... . could be a Christien group, a psychic, a kind old lady down the street, a street person, etc etc... .

Main thing is that you feel supported and loved, so that you can do the gargantuan task of listening with compassion and non-judgment... .

Reality

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[six]

wow Reality

this is so not simple

but my goal is to be able to do what you are saying

I have a small support group (my T, my best friend, my sister)

but not sure how I would use them.  I speak to each of them, but maybe need to get them more involved with what is happening

thanks so much for the response

thanks, Thursday

I feel like you "got it"

[Reality]

Oh dear!  I did not mean to sound over-the-top... . or to sound too strong... .

Sounds like a good support group... .

Do these people understand your son's illness? 

Reality

[six]

Reality

no! not at all! your post was helpful, not at all over the top or too strong.  now re-reading how I responded, I see why you thought that was what i meant.

I feel like what you said is something for me to work toward, it just seems so impossible at this moment.  to validate him when he is telling me how awful I am.  I'm just not at a point where I feel like I can do this. 

you wrote " to listen with curiousity and NO JUDGMENT... . if you use this as a technique, it will go wrong... . if you are sincere and truly loving and curious, he will sense that you are and respond in a very mature, reflective manner... . these pwBPD are so frustrated because no-one understands them"

I know this is true.  I just cant listen to him shredding me and have  NO JUDGMENT.  yesterday I spent the day with my DD8 who has been hearing her brother shrieking about what a child abuser I am since she was a baby.  she said she wanted to write her brother a letter to explain to him that mommy is not abusive.  every time I did somthing that made her happy, she said, "see mommy, you are not abusive" I wasnt sure if she was trying to make me feel better or trying to make sense in her head of what he says and what she beleives is true.  in any case, it made me so sad to think that she has this stuff in her head.

it is  hard for me to have no judgment when i think about the damage that has been done in our family. 

[griz]

Six:  I think you did a great job at boundary setting.  This has always been difficult for me for the same reasons ;FEAR.  But baby steps are important.  Ever little step we take gets us closer and actually helps them.

I also know it is hard to listen to them without judgement but as you do this it gets easier and actually helps you understand.  I used to get really angry with DD when she would cut.  I could not understand it, why would anyone do such a thing? how does it help? why are you doing this?  Ah VERY judgemental of me.  As I let go of my judgements I began to understand.  I started to learn how to really listen and I learned that her SI was her only way of speaking to us to show us the intensity of her pain.  I still hate it.  It makes me sad.  I am sad when I see the scars on he arms. But I am no longer angry and when it happens and she has a set back I am able to recognize that she is in pain and be there for her.

Griz

[Reality]

Reality

I feel like what you said is something for me to work toward, it just seems so impossible at this moment.  to validate him when he is telling me how awful I am.

I know this is true.  I just cant listen to him shredding me and have  NO JUDGMENT.  

it is  hard for me to have no judgment when i think about the damage that has been done in our family.  

Hi again,

I agree with you.  Yep, the damage is immeasurable.  

The shredding of you is all projection of his frustration and pain onto the closest human available.  I mean, honestly, it is not at all about you.  He could be projecting onto a tree or whatever.  

I don't think I explained very well.  Other people on the board might be better at explaining the validation.  It is about validating the feelings, not the garbage behavior.  The garbage behavior is the disorder part.  I guess one is validating the HIGH-SENSITIVITY of the pwBPD when their feelings are being accepted and validated.  These pwBPD are so soft inside and they have learned to construct a very nasty exterior to hide their extreme vulnerability.  A very short-term strategy and very destructive to self and others, but it relieves the emotional pain at the moment.

A pwBPD just wants everyone to validate their struggles, I guess like we all do.  

'Yes, it must be very hard, but I know you can do it.'

They are the human condition magnified.   And boy are they magnified!

I agree with griz.  You did a great job setting your boundaries. 

Reality

[six]

Reality

just want to say

its really (reality?) not that you are not explaining clearly

I am just having a hard time wrapping my brain around it

but I hear the truth of what you are telling me

to get beneath the garbage and validate the pain that he feels

the way you describe him, being soft inside and construting a wall around himself

I know this is true

really appreciate your keeping on guiding me

in the right direction

[griz]

Maybe it could help at first to just recognize the judgement.  You could even validate and also tell him how you feel.  When he is raging could you say to him, "I see that you are feeling really angry right now and it makes me very sad when you aim that anger at me.  Is there something I can do to help".  In DBT they teach us over and over to validate the Emotion and not the Behavior.

Just the fact that you are trying to wrap you head around it shows progress.  And remember when you have had enough you can always come here and blast lfjlafjlfjoaj##4jalfjjfj$$.

Sometimes that feels so good.

Griz

[Kate4queen]

I hear what Reality is saying, and in theory I understand it, and wish I could be that person who stands there and lets my son rage and rage at me while I try and remain calm and supportive and understanding, non-judgemental etc. It was destroying me and didn't make anything better.

I can't do that anymore.

He would follow me into any room and bang and scream on the locked door, upsetting all his siblings and I couldn't allow that or allow him to make my home a place full of fear. He made my home a prison.

So, by the end, when my son was raging I would follow through on the established boundaries I'd discussed with him in a quieter moment.

And none of this is done in anger, or defensively. It's done from a place of acceptance and what I can handle and what I deserve in my own home.

1. If possible, I would take my dd and leave the house.

or

2. I would ask my BPD son to leave my house.

3. If he refused I would call the police.

I'm not a saint and I believe unconditional love has its limits. I wish I didn't, but I can understand why any parent needs an escape route.

[qcarolr]

date4queen, you posted while I was writing this. Your consequences are very similar to mine. I will not stick around to be battered anymore. It does not accomplish good for anyone, including my DD27.

Boundaries, especially around violent and abusive behaviors, and validation go together. And sometimes the boundary enforcement short-circuits much validation in that moment. There are  times when being invaliditing for safety is unavoidable. Repairs to relationships are possible when a better moment comes around. Examples are talking about the rages at a quiet moment to bring awareness. Letting our kids know what to expect from us the next time. Creating a safety plan with all members of the family - and calling it that. SAFETY PLAN.

For my family it is important for all of us to understand the it does not FEEL SAFE when anyone is raging. Whether my DD27 gets it or not, she knows we will respond if she cannot get her self-control back enough so we all FEEL SAFE.

The other thing that has recently helped me understand validation at a new level, and understand that I am OK to be invalidating without feeling so guilty about it, was watching Alan Fruzzetti's video "Understanding Validation in Families".

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDSIYTQX_dk

It is complicated. And even though I understand that my DD is projecting her intense and out of control emotional state on me, that I am not taking it persoanlly, it still feels unsafe. When I feel unsafe I shut down and my good tools and skills decline in being accessible to me and in their impact on DD and the situation. DD is so overaroused (Fruzzetti's word - I love it) that she cannot take in anything. We all just need to seperate and cool down.

It is also important to be able to come back to the triggers of the situation when things have calmed down. If not with the pwBPD, then with the others in the family. What damage repair is needed, esp. with the young kids. My gd8 does much better when she is offered a chance to talk about what happened. This is a great opportunity for me to use all these wonderful validation skills with her. Sometimes I just say how her expression looks (sad, angry, dissappointed... . ) and to offer to talk about it when she is ready. This usually happens at bedtime, that shifting into the dark time for us all.

Sounds to me like we are all learning and practicing so many good things. Need to remember that - sometimes things are just rough and all we can do in that moment is have the strength to "endure the unendurable", and reach out here to others that understand.

qcr  

[Reality]

I hear what Reality is saying, and in theory I understand it, and wish I could be that person who stands there and lets my son rage and rage at me while I try and remain calm and supportive and understanding, non-judgemental etc. It was destroying me and didn't make anything better.

I can't do that anymore.

He would follow me into any room and bang and scream on the locked door, upsetting all his siblings and I couldn't allow that or allow him to make my home a place full of fear. He made my home a prison.

Good point, Kate4Queen,

There is raging and then there is scary raging that just keeps going... .

I was always surprised how quickly my son would come down from a rage once I understood how to validate my son's feelings, though. 

I think there need to be very clear boundaries for the rest of the  family to be able to initiate this process.  The strong, well-held boundaries contain everyone in a safe place.  If a person does not feel safe, obviously, there needs to be clear action to ensure the boundaries are precisely held. 

To be honest, I think the scary raging is potentially dangerous. 

Just to clarify... .

Reality

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Kate4queen]

I hear what Reality is saying, and in theory I understand it, and wish I could be that person who stands there and lets my son rage and rage at me while I try and remain calm and supportive and understanding, non-judgemental etc. It was destroying me and didn't make anything better.

I can't do that anymore.

He would follow me into any room and bang and scream on the locked door, upsetting all his siblings and I couldn't allow that or allow him to make my home a place full of fear. He made my home a prison.

Good point, Kate4Queen,

There is raging and then there is scary raging that just keeps going... .

I was always surprised how quickly my son would come down from a rage once I understood how to validate my son's feelings, though. 

I think there need to be very clear boundaries for the rest of the  family to be able to initiate this process.  The strong, well-held boundaries contain everyone in a safe place.  If a person does not feel safe, obviously, there needs to be clear action to ensure the boundaries are precisely held. 

To be honest, I think the scary raging is potentially dangerous. 

Just to clarify... .

Reality

I would be really interested in hearing how you got your son down from a rage by validating his feelings. I'm at a loss. Everything I try seems to make it worse.

[six]

Reality, I would also be interested in hearing your methods.  I sense that my son is capable of coming down from the rage, but I feel scared when he is doing it and I want to protect myself and my other kids, so I get paralyzed by fear and then I feel like the only thing that will get him to stop would be to  call the police (which I have never done and really don't want to go there).

thankfully my son is often able to get himself under control in a relatively short amount of time.  for me the hard part is never knowing when he is about to lose it, and living with a kind of post traumatic stress  level of fear whenever he is in the house

also, you mentioned that the  whole family has to be on board with this and everyone has to feel safe.  I actually think that my kids are taking their cues from me and everyone feels unsafe.  a few weeks ago my son decided that one of his sisters had spent too much time on the computer (and besides he wanted to use it) so he walked over and pulled the laptop away from her.  she pulled back. I watched in fear as the two of them struggled over the computer (they make those things better than you'd think).  finally she (of course) gave in and stomped out of the room.  nobody said anything to my son (the terrorist).  we have come to accept this as a way of life.

I feel sick when I think of my girls growing up in a house with a terrorist.  I want them to feel safe and I want all of us to be able to take care of ourselves.  but like k4queen, I feel that if I say anything I will make matters worse. 

[Reality]

The more time I spent with my son, just listening to him and asking probing questions, the more I questioned him about how he felt when... . , did he like when... . , did it bother him when... . the more relaxed the relationship was and I think I noticed his feeling-state more often and then was more attuned when he started to disconnect from his wise mind and went into pure feeling state.

You need to know that we lost our son, so I am not sure I am really qualified to talk, although he improved so much with my knowledge of DBT and MENTALZATION and his partial DBT, that I coud not believe it.  I was lulled into thinking that all was well because he improved significantly both psychologically and emotionally. 

He death is over, but I think he died because I was so tired, my dh worked overseas for 3 years, the mh people gave me bad advice many times and I was extremely isolated through bad luck, some nastiness and the busy lives of modern times. 

Reality

[six]

Reality, how heartbreaking!

just when he seemed to be improving . . .

So so sad.

not sure what to say other than

your posts are like a lifeline to me

and it is clear how much you care about helping other parents navigate this torturous path

 6