Need help with the "next step"

[mom2bkl]

Well, we survived graduation and yes... . much drama but it is over! DD18 has spent every penny she received as gifts for graduation and now we are onto the next step of boundaries for the rest of the family! I am longing for some advice/suggestions or anything you have:) She will do NOTHING! She won't look for a job... . spends all her time hanging out at various pools with her friends and partying. Her boyfriend seems to be able to have both a job and partying as do many of her friends but she will NOT even attempt to get one! She decided to go off her meds about 2 months ago - she was only on Prozac so wasn't too dramatic. But it is time for a change... . I can't stand the rest of us working our buns off and she just living the life with no plan on doing anything else and refusing to do ANYTHING at home... . will literally say "no" to our faces if you ask her to do something.

My husband and I are ready to set some boundaries in place... . she leaves all the time... . doesn't tell us where she is going or when she is coming home or if she is coming home. She is totally using her boyfriend and his resources to maintain her non-working lifestyle. It is hard to put the boundaries in place knowing that it will cause a total ruckus in the household but honestly at this point it is worth it.

The following is what we are thinking of instituting... . do you have any ideas or feedback on it?

1. She will start paying rent at $150 a month due on August 1st

2. Laundry done weekly (so her room doesn't smell/look like a homeless retreat)

3. Use only two towels designated to her (She uses as many as she can, leaving them mildewing on the floor indefinitely.

4. Drug test monthly (she says she is clean and we are free to test her now as she understands this is our home - she was smoking pot)

5. Clean the bathroom she uses completely once a week.

6. Cook a meal at home once a week or clean the 2nd bathroom weekly.

7. Pay her cell phone bill - which she has done now for 2 months.

Any breach in these would lead to 30 days for her to find somewhere else to live - someone's couch to sleep on most likely. Part of it feels so harsh but as you know... . outside of being forced to do something she does absolutely NOTHING... . but party and mooch of anyone and everyone... . and basically just sucking us dry. We have a 16 year-old and 9-year-old... . I really feel like it is NOW their time! Thanks for ANY input you may have on this... . I'm reenergized without the threat of non-graduating hanging over our head but I think that now is the time to make changes before we are all so angry we can barely see straight. I know we need to validate more but honestly... . I need SOMETHING to work with to validate!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[griz]

Hi Mom:

I like the boundaries and I have also had to put them in place with my DD18.  The one thing I did find was that it was easier if I put them in place slowly.  DD's bedroom was always a disaster so my first boundary was that her laundry gets done with the family laundry if she can keep her room somewhat tidy.  Most of the stuff on her floor was either dirty clothes or clean clothes that she didn't put away and ended up on the floor.  I kept to this boundary.  In the beginning she ignored it but it didn't take long before she had no clean clothes to wear.  She also has to bring her laundry down to the laundry room and sort it for washing.

As far a money,  the deal was if you want things you need to work.  I pay her college tuition but any spending money she has to earn.  She was lucky that we needed a part timer in my office which is right near her school, so she comes in two days a week and works about 12 hours total.  I don't mind giving her a few extra bucks when she needs it to do something special but only after she proved to me that she could earn her spending money.

As far as going out, she needs to let me know when she is going out and although I don't give her a curfew, she must text me if she will be home later than 12pm. 

I have tried to make helping out at home into something we do together.  DD is very weight conscious (this is an issue in itself that I won't get into here) but she comes food shopping with me and helps me shop, bring the groceries in and  this has turned into a nice thing to do together.  We often will shop on a Sunday morning and then come home and prepare meals for the week together.  I let her pick out some recipes that she would like to try and it is her job to make a list and pick out what she needs.  This has also helped her as a DBT distracting skill when she needs it.  She is finding enjoyment in creating meals for the family and for her friends.

So far these things have been working pretty well, but I put them in place one by one.  I also made sure that I took notice of how well she was accomplishing each goal.  I don't make a big deal about it but I will say things like, "thanks for texting me last night to let me know you would be late" or "it must feel good to have your own money and be able to buy yourself things when you want".

As far as saying NO, like anything else there are consequences to her actions.  An example of this was I asked her to give the dog a bath while I was at work, she said "NO, she hates doing that" so I let her know that if she wanted to go to the store when I got home she needed to get that done.  Well she didn't do it and when I got home she asked what time I could take her to the  shop and I very matter of factly informed her that the dog needed a bath and since I had to do that now, there would be no time to go to the shops.  End of conversation.  She was pissed but she got it.

Griz

[opheliasmom]

I think your rules are reasonable.  I have found with my own 19 year old daughter that it is ineffective to make threats I will not keep.  My only absolute is that she can not use drugs while she lives in my home.  Other rules I am flexible with.  She no longer lives with us because she is using. Stay strong  

[qcarolr]

mom2bkl   

This is a long list of rules. Can you sort them out by priority based on what your most important values are?

Which ones really really would cross that value line to cause being kicked out of the house - even if into homelessness? Drug use, or refusal to do the drug screening? Not paying her rent?

Which would be able to have more 'natural consequences' - like no clean clothes to wear, everyone keeps their towels in their rooms so she only has access to her two towels, no cell phone service, etc.

What are things that you could learn to tolerate, as long as she keeps her mess in her space. My DD27 has use of the bathroom in the basement -- has to leave a path to the laundry. I sorted out all her stuff and cleaned this when she was gone for about 8 weeks living with friends (she was not able to follow the "kindness and respect" boundary). Since she has been home for about 3 weeks she is working to maintain this space better. I try to stay out of her bedroom!

When I was working with a T when DD was a teen he shared the '3 basket' method of setting up house rules for her. Basket A = safety issues, no compromise or negotiation. Basket B = household issues/things that effect others in home, some compromise and negotiation (I don't remember this exactly). Basket C = DD issues outside home, ie with friends -- stay out of this as long as doens't slip into other baskets.

For me the first step is always - what is most important to me and my values. These help determine true boundaries, set to protect my values.  The little things - that lead to the 'house rules' - kind of take care of themselves if the boundaries are being respected.

Not allowing DD into our home - this is hard. What would be your plan if it came to this with your D?

Let us know how things are going.

qcr  

Have you read this workshop?  Boundaries - Living our values    https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries .20

[pessim-optimist]

mom2bkl,

I like that you have a list of rules. Qcr's suggestion of the "baskets" sounds very useful... .

Prevention is better than dealing with a disaster, so  on trying to deal with it now rather than later... .

It sounds reasonable that you would like your dd to help out and to contribute now that she has graduated.

First thing that I am thinking is: does she think this is yet another summer break? That is what she was used to most of her life... .

Maybe we are looking at a clash of expectations of your dd (summer break) and your own (HS graduate - self supporting, responsible adult)... .

And as your dd might be a bit lost in what her identity is now, that she is not a school-kid, and at a loss of motivation/clue as to what to do (even a bit frightened to spread her wings and try to fly on her own), I am thinking if it might be a good opportunity for you to gently guide her, to have a general talk with her about the fact that the situation is now different, she is starting a new chapter of her life - adult life, that brings a lot of opportunities, privileges AND responsibilities... .

Who knows, with some validation and questions, it might be an over all positive experience... .

[mom2bkl]

Thank you everyone for all your thoughts and suggestions... . it really does help to have more perspectives. We did present the list of expectations... . at first she was angry and cried and went to her boyfriends for a few days but seems to have wrapped her mind around it though at this stage. We are approaching the first month's rent deadline and no job still but I know she has had a couple of babysitting gigs... . so hoping she has been able to put it aside.

Pessim-Optimist... . I think exactly what is happening is the "summer vacation" mindset. She says she "deserves a break"... . and on the inside I'm screaming... . from what?

We are trying so hard just to not engage with the drama... . and just gently remind of expectations and validate her feelings. It makes me sad that we seem to have less and less of a relationship in some ways... . as she removes herself from the home and spends most of the time with her BF... . but thankfully he seems like a decent guy and I don't worry about her when she is with him. I just wonder when he is going to get sick of her "doing nothing" and kicks her to the curb.

It is hard for her to understand that the situation has changed even though we have always told our kids that if you live at home after you graduate and you aren't in school you will pay rent... . seems like the reality of it seems a whole other thing... . she is QUITE sure we are being awful:)

Anyhow... . onward and forward... . thank you again for your support. I'm basically terrified for the day when we have to follow through on actually making her leave but I DO know that it is time to let her choice have consequences. Her car is currently sitting in front of the house because it needs a repair... . not a big one but we are letting her take responsibility for it... . oh the joys!

Hugs to all of you and thank you for always being there for us! This is an amazing group of people!

[pessim-optimist]

Hi again, mom2bkl,

I think it's a good thing that you have always let your expectations be known regarding the rent - that way, it is not a huge surprise (as awful as it feels at the moment).

Now, this depends on your family dynamics: Would it be a good idea to have a talk with her about: 'We are here for you' and 'What can we do to help you succeed?' (While validating - 'we know it seems awful that we want you to pay rent. It must be scary and stressful. In the long run, it will help you build character and responsibility, and as loving parents, we want to help you build the skills that will make you strong and successful'.)

What do you think?

[mom2bkl]

Well, the first 30 days has gone by and no rent, very little participation in any of the other things that we were willing to be flexible on... . honestly I think I can say that if she just showed an "effort" I would be satisfied. On the 31st I reminded her that on the 1st her first rent payment was due and if she was prepared for that. The response I got was... . "Of course not mom... . I don't have a job and I don't have any money... . really I can't believe you are expecting me to pay to live in my own house." I stayed calm and just told her that she really needed to think about the next step and if she would prefer other living arrangements but at the much higher cost that they would come at opposed to the little amount we had asked her.

Well... . fast forward 3 days... . I go to straighten up her living space because her brother shares it with her... . and find over $200 in receipts for clothes that she has bought over the last three days... . gahhhh! Now comes the time to stay strong to our boundaries. So... . tonight is turning off the phone and she has been told that she needs to find 30 days to find somewhere else to live. It is SOO hard though... . but thankfully my T is helping us stand strong and truly she is at her boyfriends 6/7 nights anyway. My concern is ... . is she stealing? She has no job... . no desire to look for a job and other than her BF giving her $ she has none! My concern is that he gave her the $ to pay for her rent and phone... . since it is almost the same amount! Is it my job to be in contact with him in order to be honest or is that just stirring up drama? I hate that he has just her "word" which is soo distorted but goodness... . the poor guy is in for a rude awakening! The scenario continues... . but my hubby says its going to take a crowbar to get her out of here! The whole family could go for a break though and the last time she went to therapy the therapist basically said cut the cord and the sooner the better... . so here goes the cord cutting! and lots of reading STOP WALKING ON EGGSHELLS!:) Thanks for all your support!

[FaithfulHope]

Dear Mom2BKL,

I feel like you just wrote the story of my life 3 yrs ago with my DD, now 21.   Wow.   I am new to this group too but I have literally walked in your shoes.   I can feel the frustration and anxiety in your words.  I lived them myself.   

I fully know that things have just gotten worse and worse and worse til you are at the point you are now.   

I too know what it's like to have your DD causing all this chaos in the home and respect no rules while she has two younger siblings who have to witness all of this.   

Our DD had issues with lying that started in early childhood.   We first discovered her lying right our faces with no problem at age 8.   The lies grew over time and once in high school her behavior went from bad to worse.   We tried everything we could think of over the years to help get through to her.  She just did not care about anything and gave ZERO effort towards anything... . even hobbies we tried to get her interested in. 

But then at 17 her behavior went off the charts.   She was sneaking out of the house at night, hanging with a horrible crowd (criminal types!), smoking, drinking, etc.   I could go on and on and on.   She was stealing from us... . even her little brother's ADD medication.   That one I will never get over.   She even tried to steal my debit card but I caught her.   

At 18, under the guidance of the wonderful therapist we had at the time, she helped us put together a list of house rules.   Common sense things like yours ... . nothing excessive.   The deal was, follow them or you have 3 months to move out.   Of couse she didn't follow them and of course we had to stick to the plan.  What did it tell her brothers if we let her do whatever she wants?  How does she survive in world when we are gone if she doesn't learn consequences and boundaries?

Well she didn't follow the rules and she didn't find a place to live.   As the deadline moved, my husband and I decided to find a place for her.  We agreed to pay the first 6 months rent.  I couldn't sleep at night just kicking her out.    It was very hard to make her move.   But we had no other choice.  We were basically under house arrest withher here.  She would bring these awful people into our home when we would go out.   Even if we said not to, as soon as we left our neighbors would tell us cars showed up.   One time a group of scumbag boys looking for money from her came banging on the doors of our house while my youngest was doing his homework at the table.   We were terrified.   

So yes, we made her move out.   And since then it has been a rollercoaster.   Too long of a story to put in this one post.  However, I just want you to know that I totally understand what you are going through.  I have just joined this group and feel such support here.   My husband and I have been walking this horrible road alone for years.   None of our friends and family understand fully what its like.   

My dd has been in and out of the home several times since that first move.   This past Feb she moved out again, still not able to follow the most basic rules.   For me, I don't believe I will ever allow her to live with me again.   Time and time again I have given it a chance but I now feel that for my own mental health I need that boundary.   I need a home with peace so that I can keep myself strong.   

I am so glad you found this site.  I wish I had this as a support when mine was 18... . but at least I am here now.

Best of luck.

[mom2bkl]

FaithfulHope:  Wow... . on days when I think "am I the one over the top" I get a response like yours that helps remind me that WE are the hostages... . and yes... . this is very real and so very hard on our families! Its so weird that you talk about your DD stealing your son's mx... . two years ago our DD stole my hubbies chronic pain medicine and so everything in a lock box since then! It is like it never ends... . she is sneaky and lying... . most of the time I am like so many other families and just let it go... . but the time has come for boundaries to be strong and hopefully in the long run it will help. I thought it interesting how you said at 17 she went off the charts... . at 16, DD had a job and just was rocking it... . 16 1/2 came... . and gahh... . the ceiling caved in! She hasn't held a job much since then and says "Well I had one when I was 16, now I get a summer off". Ha!

Well, we are going to stand strong, I am going to turn her phone off this morning and ready myself for the tirade that will follow! Decided we WILL text her boyfriend after I turn off her phone and explain to him why it has been done with just basic information. He is a nice guy is definitely is trying to rescue her... . but I want him to feel welcome around here and to have someone to talk to when he is ready that like you said "understands"... . as most people including half our family think she is "just a teenager"! Please! I have another one of them... . and it is NOTHING like this! Thx for the support! You guys rock!

[FaithfulHope]

Dear Mom2Blk,

I just started on this site a wk or 2 ago and the first two days I just sat here, read the stories, and cried.   Just CRIED.   I haven't cried alot about my DD over the years because I didn't have time for crying.  I had to save her from herself.   Even when she made an impulsive suicide attempt (I don't want to sound like I am downplaying it because we all know how impulsive BPD's are and they can make quick deadly decisions), I just couldn't cry.  My husband was a mess.   I didn't have time to cry.  I had to find the answer to all this agony!   I was on a mission.  That was a couple years ago.  It's only been in recent months that I have finally realized that I can't fix this.   All I can do is my best to keep some kind of relationship with her and keep the rest of our family as healthy as we can be.   

I know there is a very real possibility that she could wind up in jail or dead.   She lives on the edge.   We have pulled her back from the edge many times and she chooses to go right back to that point.  She refuses all forms of responsibility... . basically just rejects them.   She will mooch off of anyone she can.   It's so very sad.

So, we have placed boundaries in our relationship with her.  And that includes all the security measures we have put in place to keep her from stealing from us when she visits.  You talk about lock boxes... well, we each have one here.  And I hide my purse when she is over ... . in so many different spots that I sometimes forget where I hid it! 

Yet, we try to keep the lines of communication open with her.  I know the suicide rate among BPD's is very high and I have accepted that it could happen to her.  However, I don't think I could live if something I said were to push her over the edge.   So I just keep things as light as I can with her.  I no longer 'call her out' on ALL HER LIES.   The lies never ever end.   It's just not worth it.  Nothing I say will make her hold down a steady job, pay bills like everyone does, or even take proper care of her health.   

She has proven to us that she can act responsibly.   She was on probation for a suspended sentence for grand larceny.   She willingly agreed to let me help her budget her money to pay off her debts.  She did what the courts required of her... . she got a job, she paid court fines, she got her GED (Thank God!) and she didn't get into any trouble during probation.  She she was released from the sentence and has a clean record still.   We thought we had finally gotten past all this... . well she was released from probation Dec 2012 and went right back to her old behaviors.   (She had been doing so well that we had let her move back home July 2012).   However once probation was done, she started to stay out all night, overslept often and didn't go to work  and eventually was fired, got back into partying, and refused to follow the house rules.  So we gave her one last chance but she refused to change back and moved out within 4 days.   That was Feb 2013.   

That was so very hard for me because she had proven to me that she is capable of acting responsibly.   She CHOSE to go back to her old lifestyle once the heat was off. So very sad.   But for me, that's when I decided that I will continue to love her but I will no longer try to change her.    Unless a miracle happens, I will never live with her again.   She only wants to live with us because its easy here.   

So yes, I totally get where you are coming from.   TOTALLY.   We can lean on each other.  I wish you the best with the phone.   My dd is attached to hers like its part of her anatomy.  She needs constant drama, she is always in some Facebook Fight or Text War with someone on a daily basis.   

But one thing I can share from my story is this... . for years I lived in panic over what was to come next.   I think once you find the right balance in your life with the boundaries that you need, you can enjoy life again.   You may not have the relationship with your dd that you wanted but you learn to accept the situation and make the best of a terrible condition.   

 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

mom2bkl and FaithfulHope    

Keeping the lines of communication open and working to keep our boundaries in focus - I too find these to be ways to maintain my own sanity. My BPDDD27 has been in and out of our home a lot since about 17 when she basically lived with her bf for 6 months while going to high school. She had an alphabet soup of dx (ADHD, bipolar, panic disorder, etc). She was dx BPD at age 23 while living away with her hubby and their son was in foster care. Eval ordered by family court - she was NC with me at that time. She really dipped into a bad place after he was deported (and invited me back into her life with the loss of her dh) and my gs was adopted by foster parents. She lived with us for 9 months in 2009 before we ended up kicking her out for raging, threatening behaviors. I just could not take it anymore. She has mostly lived homeless since then, even when we have allowed her to live with us she gets too bored and is gone with her friends. It is a volatile life for her. If I allow it this brings me so much sadness and pain. Such a journey for me cycling right along with her between hopefulness and despair.

When I use all the awesome tools and skills I have learned, mostly here at bpdfamily.com, my life can be good even when DD's is going badly. When I allow the F.O.G. to roll over me, I end up depressed and not good for anyone around me. I am coming out of one of those down cycled for myself. Others here, in similar circumstances as yours and mine, seem able to keep on a more even keel.

Acceptance that I cannot change the course of DD's life - she has to choose to get treatment for her mental illness and the substance use the goes with it. She has never chosen to particpate in therapy, even when she did choose to go to appointments. All I can do is put the opportunities for help in her path and step back. Geez - that step back in hard sometimes.

I need to turn back to my self-care strategies - getting therapy, getting back into a daily routine of excercise and some type of mindfulness practice. What things do you each do to get grounded so you can take care of self?

When I am grounded, then I am able to have and enforce the boundaries my family needs, and to be sincerely able to validate my DD's feelings while avoiding validating her actions and behaviors (that are so invalid!) There are many resources here to help understand BPD better, learn about boudnaries, validation, and mindfulness/acceptance.

Let us know how we can help. Thanks so much for sharing your stories.

qcr  

[mom2bkl]

qcarolr: Thanks for your encouragement... . I love the thought of me being grounded so I can be useful to myself and those around me... . in the last 2 years I have become a RUNNER! I never thought it possible but it has literally saved my sanity... . pounding it out on the pavement is amazing! This last weekend I ran in a relay race and saw a van with the sign... . "12 moms... . we run so we don't run away"! I loved that... . and decided it may be my new mantra!

Onward and forward we go, every day with BPD is a new adventure but each of us in our family are learning to take care of ourselves in our own individual ways and through this we are regaining FAMILY HEALTH! Hugs to each of you and keep on keeping on!