Do they view their own lives in black and white?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

My husband often makes some very extreme comments about his/our history. For example, he tells people he can't remember when our kids were babies and up crying in the night (well, he didn't do much but he was definitely there) and yesterday he was going on about how our kids have turned out so well because he was such an involved parent (not really; he's just  tried to improve his relationship with them as he sees the becoming independent and starting to lead their own lives). He becomes extremely hurt when I try to present a more realistic view (in a nice way of course).

I'm not sure if he's saying these things because this is how he truly remembers events or he wants to rewrite history to put himself in a good light and control me to some extent (now that I've changed and am setting up boundaries, detaching and not as involved in his world as I used to be).

A second example involves my best friend who lives about 3 hours away. I have known her for over 25 years and have spent a lot of time with her and her family. My husband happened to stay at their home once without me 2 years ago and came back with this story that she is verbally abusing her husband and completely controlling. While her husband is a lovely guy and I've mainly seen harmony and happiness in their lives, she does occasionally have to make direct comments (verging on orders) to get him to get off the couch - what a typical frazzled wife with 3 active kids will do when there's time pressure to get out the door. It's certainly a far cry from the verbal abuse I've taken from my husband over the years. So, again, is this him storing memories in black and white categories or an attempt to control me? I now feel very uncomfortable having her in our home and my husband says he will "tolerate" her by staying out of her way, but he doesn't want her husband along so he doesn't have to witness the abuse again. 

I now know that it is really hard to make sense out of much my husband says but this has me wondering because it affects all of our relationships and anything from the past that gets discussed.

[dimples2]

My husband often makes some very extreme comments about his/our history. For example, he tells people he can't remember when our kids were babies and up crying in the night (well, he didn't do much but he was definitely there) and yesterday he was going on about how our kids have turned out so well because he was such an involved parent (not really; he's just  tried to improve his relationship with them as he sees the becoming independent and starting to lead their own lives). He becomes extremely hurt when I try to present a more realistic view (in a nice way of course).

I'm not sure if he's saying these things because this is how he truly remembers events or he wants to rewrite history to put himself in a good light and control me to some extent (now that I've changed and am setting up boundaries, detaching and not as involved in his world as I used to be).

A second example involves my best friend who lives about 3 hours away. I have known her for over 25 years and have spent a lot of time with her and her family. My husband happened to stay at their home once without me 2 years ago and came back with this story that she is verbally abusing her husband and completely controlling. While her husband is a lovely guy and I've mainly seen harmony and happiness in their lives, she does occasionally have to make direct comments (verging on orders) to get him to get off the couch - what a typical frazzled wife with 3 active kids will do when there's time pressure to get out the door. It's certainly a far cry from the verbal abuse I've taken from my husband over the years. So, again, is this him storing memories in black and white categories or an attempt to control me? I now feel very uncomfortable having her in our home and my husband says he will "tolerate" her by staying out of her way, but he doesn't want her husband along so he doesn't have to witness the abuse again. 

I now know that it is really hard to make sense out of much my husband says but this has me wondering because it affects all of our relationships and anything from the past that gets discussed.

[musicfan42]

he's just  tried to improve his relationship with them as he sees the becoming independent and starting to lead their own lives).

I'm not sure if he's saying these things because this is how he truly remembers events or he wants to rewrite history to put himself in a good light and control me to some extent (now that I've changed and am setting up boundaries, detaching and not as involved in his world as I used to be).

Your hubby reminds me of my father to be honest. He was never there for me as a child yet he'd want to hang out with me when I was becoming more independent, leading my own life. He wanted all the results-to say "look at my well-rounded, successful daughter" but not actually having to put in any work into parenting me. It is definitely about control so that's why I've highlighted that bit-my father is a compulsive liar and believes his own lies so it's easy for him to see himself as a perpetual victim of circumstance... . everyone had "wronged" him when in reality, it was the other way around. He was forever trying to put himself in a good light.

I would guess that your husband doesn't like your friend because she has a backbone-my father never wanted my mother to have family and/or friends in the house either. My mother was friends with a lot of strong women  so they represented a threat to my father's domineering personality. Controlling people like to isolate their partner so that they can have complete control over said person.

I think you're wasting your time trying to appeal to him with logic-i.e. trying to represent a more realistic assessment of his parenting of the kids. My father can argue and argue until he wears people down... . it's not about logic with those kinds of people... . it's just about winning-doing whatever it takes to get their own way. They will bulldoze anyone that tries to get in their way. One thing I would say is stay calm when you're around them as they will try to bait you all the time- i.e. making provocative statements to start an argument so when you stay calm, you're not taking the bait and they have to stop basically. You mention that your husband is making very extreme comments about his/your mutual history-that's baiting right there! I don't think the SET method is effective-plenty of people here seem to love it but personally, I think it's useless so I wouldn't advise you to use it! DEARMAN is much better-there's a thread in DBT on the DEARMAN skill... . DEARMAN works really well with aggressive people... . the SET method is too soft really.

To answer your question, yes they do view their own lives in black and white. For them, there's winners and losers. They typically see themselves as doing everything right and everyone else doing everything wrong. They see themselves as victims and anyone who says no to them as a nag and/or persecutor.

I hope I haven't been too blunt in my assessment here. It's great that you're setting boundaries, detaching and doing your own thing though

[overwhelmedandconfused]

Hey musicfan,

I feel that you were so honest and right in your appraisal. I am starting to distance myself from my BPD H and looking at things in a more honest appraisal. Reading your post made me understand his ideas, motives and motivation better. I will have to look at DEARMAN I am new to this site and just starting to reach out to others experiencing the same things I have been dealing with but with those who actually understand and not those confused by why I put up with so much crap.

[dimples2]

Hi Musicfan,

That's exactly what I needed to hear. I am "stuck" up at our summer place with him and he's been really wearing me down. He goes off road biking, golfing, fishing with a few new friends (who can't get over what an amazing guy he is as all people feel when they are getting to know him - he's on a complete high over the adulation of course). The isolation (our 3 kids are away for most of the summer) has been warping my perception of events both current and in the past, leaving me wondering if I'm the crazy one when 2 weeks ago I had contacted a lawyer and was planning to separate.

I had a girls' weekend here planned and my husband has now declared he will be here - just not in our way. That's the end of the girls' weekend. My strong friend had invited me up to spend the weekend with her and I declined - because I was just too stressed to tell my husband. But, I finally told him I'm going back home so I can do my own thing, see all my other friends etc. His first reaction was a nasty "Fine; good-bye then!" and now he's realizing I'm really leaving he's working so hard to keep me here - promising dinners out and even wanting to come to the spa today when he's done cycling/fishing/hitting golf balls. No way! I'm going home to get "centred" again. Now he's suddenly rented a cottage somewhere else (more isolating) that he tells me I'll like since it is right on a beach while our place is more of a ski chalet and a short drive to the lake.

I will definitely look into DEARMAN. My husband has kept me here for 22 years so that says something about how clever and persuasive he is (because I certainly don't consider myself stupid!). We went out for dinner the other night and he spent one hour pressuring me to move to a neighbourhood he likes to bike around (making one of our kids change schools in the middle of high school). Halfway through the meal, he changed his mind and started pressuring me to move to ANOTHER part of our city so he could walk to work. Both times, he used guilt tactics to persuade me. He didn't even realize I said nothing more than uhuh, ya, mmm, for over an hour.

But, nothing should surprise me or you. It's just who they are and I should stop reflexively trying to make sense out of it or talk sense into him.

[SadWifeofBPD]

"or he wants to rewrite history to put himself in a good light"


I think the high-functioning pwBPD (especially males) do this. They want to keep themselves WHITE, so they'll twist or change history to make themselves into the 'good guy." 

[musicfan42]

oh you're welcome guys

You are not crazy dimples2. I really can't stress this enough. Your feelings are understandable given the circumstances. 

It's really not about your husband being "clever"-it's just about his controlling behaviour and as you're not a controlling person yourself, it's hard to see through it and then even when you do, you're unsure of how to deal with it in an effective way. That's why assertiveness training is so important-to be able to deal with aggressive people. Assertiveness is a skill like anything else... . like riding a bike... . it can be learned so you can start learning now

The DEARMAN skill is an assertiveness technique and it's in the workshops section of this forum. There are other threads that I would recommend on boundaries too on this forum. There are books on assertiveness training too and they're definitely worth checking out too.

overwhelmedandconfused-yeah, I agree that it's hard listening to outsiders' opinions. Yes, the outsiders are being objective but at the same time, having someone understand where we're coming from is really soothing and supportive to have also.

SadWifeofBPD-yep, I agree... . there is that phrase of being "a house devil and a street angel"... . basically being awful at home but being great outside of the home eg at work, with strangers etc.

[SadWifeofBPD]

SadWifeofBPD-yep, I agree... . there is that phrase of being "a house devil and a street angel"... . basically being awful at home but being great outside of the home eg at work, with strangers etc.

Wow... . I've never heard that before.  I'll want to read more on that.  That describes my H almost perfectly.  He rarely lets others see his nasty side.  Which is why it took so long to get a dx. 

I've long thought that H's BPD was largely inherited. About 2 years ago, H told me that he hated his paternal grandfather because he was a phony... . nice to everyone outside the home, but horrible to his wife (H's grandmother).  H said that his grandfather would get drunk and begin raging. 

[dimples2]

Heading home now for 3 nights of space from my house devil before he comes back to the city too. H is upset I'm going but has decided I'm leaving for reasons completely unrelated to him (avoids a blow-up so I'm not going to correct him).

For my H, he was probably predisposed to inherit it. His father was very physically abusive with him, his sisters and his mother. Of course no one ever saw it outside the home (except the times neighbours called the police). We still run into people who says his dad was the best teacher they ever had and I believe it. My H is better because he's never been physically abusive and he tries to be "good" (and goes for months at a time when he feels in control of me without major incidents) and makes promises to "try harder" when he loses control. I don't think a day went by in 16 years where there wasn't a violent incident in the house he grew up in. H gave up alcohol 6 months ago but is now saying he's not an alcoholic; just better if he doesn't drink. He always comes back to the same place mentally (his "safe zone" I call it which is part fantasy, part lie, part forgetting, part self-forgiving and part blaming anything but himself). THis of course eventually leads back to raging, extreme emotional lability, splitting; mainly with me but our 3 kids have seen it enough too.

When we're together with other couples we know, he's been making a point of talking about how well he treats people (his staff, clients, children, strangers etc.) and how he can't understand how anyone can be mean or inappropriate with others. So sad and so strange.

[musicfan42]

Why are you focusing on your H's childhood?

[dimples2]

The previous poster had talked about a grandfather and the inheritance factor - sorry I didn't add a quote from that.

[musicfan42]

oh thanks for explaining dimples2-that makes more sense now! A lot of borderlines do seem to have had dysfunctional childhoods... . not them all of course but a lot of them.