How do you decide if it's worth it? Alimony?

[empower-me]

Filing for Divorce and not sure if I should try and get spousal support from him.

After 30 yrs of drama and just wanting it to be over, a big part of me say's to just walk away, but! the bills and my overhead say something different.

Is there a worksheet or a list somewhere to help you discern if you should walk away or try and get support? I mean, like based on past abuse, if it's safe?  should you just follow your gut?

So many 'what if's but that has been my life for all these years.  Sometime's you just don't know if you are making the right decision or not.

What are the statistics in this regard if anyone can shed light on this scenario?

Thank you in advance if you can help.

[empower-me]

After I posted this I thought about it and how personal this really is.

How are we to know if one should do this or not. There are so many variables to take into consideration that I really just have to weigh my decision based on what I'm dealing with at the time and then make my decision.

I just wanted to post that It is too convoluted of a question to really answer at this point so I thought I'd just answer it myself and say, it all depends really on way too many factors and is so individualized that I'll have to figure this out on my own.

But as the time does come closer I will ask for more clear cut questions regarding the in's and out's of the case and I'm sure there will be much wisdom shared with me at that point.

Thank you again for your time. e-m

[ForeverDad]

Thirty years is considered a long term marriage. 

In decades past the wife could always ask for alimony.  These days with professed gender equality it is a two-edged sword, sometimes the man can be the one asking for alimony if the woman earns more.  More and more states are moving away from the automatic alimony concept. It's being replaced with a shorter term, needs based format.  As an example, Texas generally limits support to about 3 years, from what I've heard.

One major factor to consider is your income disparity, if any.  Does he earn significantly more than you do?  If so, then there are several possibilities to consider.

If you earn less, haven't worked or don't have a career, then seek support for as long as possible with the purpose to have support while getting an education or career.  For example, at a bare minimum you can ask for support while you go to a reasonably priced college or university to get a career or diploma.  I doubt any judge would deny support for a two year course, a 4 year course might be iffy you you could try for it anyway and see what happens.  Do you have a specific career in mind?  Do you need training, refresher courses, etc?

What you do NOT do is blindly say, "Just go away, leave me alone, I don't even want to be reminded of you, I'll trade that peace for any money you would have been paying me in spousal support or alimony."  Please don't sell yourself short by just looking for peace.  You do have to be practical.

Check what the rules or guidelines are in your state.  Seek legal advice.  Keep in mind that seeking alimony is not being mean, it's the court's way to try to make the marriage's end somewhat equitable.  Trust peer support to help you view alimony - or not - in a balanced, objective, long-term perspective.

[empower-me]

Thank you so much for your advice on this.

I do realize that it would be very unwise to just allow him to walk away and not be responsible to help me get back on my feet.

He does have a very good job and I only work part time and have been struggling with a lot of health problems as well.

He can afford to help me monthly and I am pretty sure that is the route I will go when the time comes.

Thank you again forever dad

[ForeverDad]

The numbers are on your side, likely he will try to make you avoid that option, but present the information to the court and the court's standard calculations will almost surely be better than what he would ever offer.

Check what the rules or guidelines are in your state.  Seek legal advice.  Keep in mind that seeking alimony is not being mean, it's the court's way to try to make the marriage's end somewhat equitable.

[livednlearned]

After 30 years of living with a pwBPD, I would imagine that you are conflict avoidant. If so, you need to set that aside so that you get a good arrangement for yourself.

I feel awful about getting alimony from N/BPDx but you know what? My marriage was hell and I bet yours was no picnic. That alimony has made a huge difference in my standard of living and has given me enough money to continue going to school.

You earned it.

[empower-me]

Thank you both for the replies... .

Can I ask livednlearned, how difficult it was to become victorious with the award of alimony?

I have been in a living hell for the majority of the r/s and by nature am a very outspoken person and that has made this all kinds of fun... .   NOT>.

But now that we are apart, the last of several attempts, I am much more reserved with my outspokenness and how I conduct myself realizing that I have to be smart at this point.

Don't get me wrong, I never have went out of my way to make things more difficult but I would push the envelope more than was healthy that s for sure.

So now at this point, he has been supplementing my income with a measley 300 a month, which I am grateful for but has recently said he will be stopping the support in September.

That gives me just enough time to get the documents filed and do what I need to do.

I sure did not want to proceed with creating more drama since I know this will totally SET HIM OFF, but like you said, what a difference the money will make in my life and my level of anxiety.

But then again, if he starts creating a lot of misery for me i'll have a new anxiety to deal with and I don't want to go there.

I don't want to get ahead of myself but i'm just thinking out loud here and trying to weigh all the pro's and con's about this here.

He's a very snappy type of BPD person that can show his butt rather quickly when triggered so that makes me nervous.  but so does being homeless... .

[ForeverDad]

So now at this point, he has been supplementing my income with a measley 300 a month, which I am grateful for but has recently said he will be stopping the support in September.

That gives me just enough time to get the documents filed and do what I need to do.

Once you file for divorce, then the court steps in and makes the orders, at that point support is no longer conditional at your spouse's discretion.  Don't sell yourself short.  If you are 'too fair' then you may not get that extra help to put you through two (or more) years of college or other career training.

[livednlearned]

Can I ask livednlearned, how difficult it was to become victorious with the award of alimony?

It was a piece of cake. In my state, if you are married for more than 10 years, you are entitled to alimony, which in my case was 5 years worth. It was calculated based on my ex's income and my earnings. If you think you might sabotage your own efforts, get a good L and let him or her do the negotiating, and set aside your reasons for why you should or shouldn't get alimony.

Honestly, I don't understand why you would not go for alimony. Now that you're divorced, it's a good time to separate what you do and say with how he responds. You cannot appease your ex. You probably couldn't in the marriage, and you can't in the divorce. So take care of yourself and follow your state's guidelines for what you are entitled to. Especially if there is an income disparity.

[empower-me]

That's just it, livednlearned,

I'm not divorced yet and still need to file the papers and the papers for the support.

He just moved out almost 6 months ago so i'm just now ready to get busy.

Can I ask what state you are in?

I don't have a problem getting what I feel I should but I don't have the funds for an attorney either.

I'd have to do this myself and not sure how difficult that process would be but I can do it.  from past experience I've learned I can do whatever I need to when push comes to shove.

[ForeverDad]

Even if you can't afford to hire an attorney, you can and should seek a few legal consultations from local family law attorneys.  Consultation are either free or inexpensive, you're just buying an hour or two of their time and that's less expensive than a retainer.  They know the state's laws and are familiar with how your local family court works.  A reputable and good lawyer will give you an outline of what to expect and what not to expect.  You might even get some suggestions for strategies to put your best foot forward so you don't trip yourself up accidentally.

Our #1 problem?  Most of us here were too nice, too passive, too fair, too whatever for far too long.  Our ex-spouses took advantage of our good qualities.  That's who we are and in most facets of life those are wonderful qualities.  However, when dealing with an entitled, pressuring and manipulative pwBPD (or other PD) those good qualities are a distinct liability.  Believe me, you are not being mean or unfair by standing up for yourself!

[empower-me]

Thank you Foreverdad,

That is very encouraging to hear~  I am not being mean if I stand up for myself.  I'll keep reminding myself that.

I will make a few phone calls and see where it gets me.

I have an anxiety disorder that still creates a lot of nervousness whenever I get myself going on subject matters such as this so I have to really time these things well so I can take care of myself at the same time.

I have medication for the anxiety and also for panic attacks but try to not take that if I can help it.

The entire process has been very overwhelming at times.  I'm trying to stay healthy and give myself enough time to feel well stabilized before taking on another big task.  And this one is so important I really need to have my game face on bigtime.

Thanks again for your advice.  e-m

[livednlearned]

Thank you Foreverdad,

That is very encouraging to hear~  I am not being mean if I stand up for myself.  I'll keep reminding myself that.

I will make a few phone calls and see where it gets me.

I have an anxiety disorder that still creates a lot of nervousness whenever I get myself going on subject matters such as this so I have to really time these things well so I can take care of myself at the same time.

I have medication for the anxiety and also for panic attacks but try to not take that if I can help it.

The entire process has been very overwhelming at times.  I'm trying to stay healthy and give myself enough time to feel well stabilized before taking on another big task.  And this one is so important I really need to have my game face on bigtime.

Thanks again for your advice.  e-m

That's true for a lot of us! This is tough stuff to go through, no matter who you are. And after living for 30 years with your BPD husband, you have some reason to feel nervous. I think most of us probably suffer from higher than normal levels of anxiety. But it gets better. My stress is lower than its been in over a decade.

And ForeverDad is right -- you are not being mean if you stand up for yourself. We'll help remind you every day if you need 

Taking care of yourself is half the battle, and I like that you know you need to time things so you don't get overwhelmed. You're smart!

You may have to pay a small fee to consult with Ls, but it's worth it. A retainer is a different matter, and it sounds like you won't be going that route. However, it could be that a consultation with your L makes you realize what you're entitled to, in which case, maybe you are awarded enough to pay your L.

Anxiety is a form of imagination, so try to think of the unknown in positive ways. Your chances that things go your way are 50/50, so why not use your imagination to help you see good options?

[Kayci]

Hi Empower-Me!   

I'd like to share my personal experience with you. I was in Calif and divorced uBPDH 5 yrs ago. I had been a stay home mom and hadn't worked in 24 yrs. No college degree, either. (I had a career right out of hi school but quit to get married at 22.) The courts there consider a 30 yr marriage a long term marriage (like ForeverDad said), and if you have a financial need for support, it is permanent. The initial support amount is considered "temporary" and is based on a computerized court guideline. (Minimum wage will likely be imputed on you during this time.) It usually gives you a few years to get an education or a career, then the amount will be adjusted by the court - often downward. (In my case, the permanent amount was adjusted up because it took effect when child support ended.)

uBPDH has been kicking and screaming the entire time. He has lied in court (even had two separate employers lie about the amount of his income on court docs & pay him "under the table", and he has slandered and libeled me to every one of our friends and family (including our 5 grown kids) for 5 years.

He is FURIOUS that he has to pay support to me and uses every excuse to try to get out of it. But his income is too high for him to just deny that he works.

Here's my advice: 

1. File for divorce (or legal separation) QUICKLY. The courts will only allow you to ask for support retroactively for a couple of weeks when you file! Protect yourself!

2. Go online and fill out a FAFSA if you intend to take college classes. (This is your government financial aid).

3. Only communicate with him in writing (email, text, etc). If he calls, don't answer. Have him leave a VM. Save all correspondence in case you need them in court later. Do not reply to him if he leaves a belligerent message - ignore him (at least until you can reply (in writing) in a business-like and unemotional way).

4. View your divorce like a business. Don't confuse your emotions with your strategy for protecting yourself (financially, physically, emotionally, etc).

It's not fun, but neither is being married to a BPD for decades! You will find your peace. If you need help financially, the courts provide this for your protection. Be proactive and educate yourself. Take free classes offered by your court, especially if you can't afford a good family law attorney.

You will survive, but make it your goal to thrive!

Best of luck, Empower-Me!

[empower-me]

Thank you so much Kayci!

I can feel your enthusiasm over the board!  I appreciate the reminders and how to get started here.

I have been fighting off depression and other hormonal issues all week so I'm not on my game tonight for a normal response that's for sure but I had to say a BIG thank you and I will keep all of this in mind as I move forward.

Sincerely

e-m 

[livednlearned]

View your divorce like a business. Don't confuse your emotions with your strategy for protecting yourself (financially, physically, emotionally, etc).

It's not fun, but neither is being married to a BPD for decades! You will find your peace. If you need help financially, the courts provide this for your protection. Be proactive and educate yourself. Take free classes offered by your court, especially if you can't afford a good family law attorney.

Excellent advice from Kayci.

People here talk about codependence as an addiction. I think there's something to that, even though it's hard to admit. For example, in the early stages after you leave your ex, it's withdrawal. You have only yourself! It's not surprising that many of us feel depressed.

This advice from Kayci is particularly good because can be hard to disentangle what you need (financial support) from all the emotions connected to your marriage and divorce, especially when your whole way of being in the world is now completely different. So yes, treat your divorce like a business. Put as much emotional distance between you and your ex as possible so you can get this taken care of. It's worth it -- one day you'll realize what a huge hurdle you cleared, and you'll have the income to enjoy it 

[empower-me]

Amen Sister!

Thank you livednlearned.   

[fsoduck]

What about paying alimony to the BPD spouse?  My BPDw hasn't worked in 5 years, can probably make a claim that she can't work because she followed me around for my job.  However, since I live in Va., if I prove adultery (and it is there), she gets nothing! One of the reasons I am looking to divorce my BPDw is that I am tired of being tied to her financially.  I can get nothing done with regards to saving for retirement, getting kids through college, etc. without BPDw constantly pushing the budget envelope.  She will go beyond the budget and then go into a rage that there is not enough money for her needs or - and this is always the stock excuse - to buy something the kids need.  Big argument last night, as I deposited $3K into wife's account last month, which she duly spent and then claims I am exagerrating when I point this out.  Sorry dear, but in the real world, the numbers do not lie!

[livednlearned]

What about paying alimony to the BPD spouse?  My BPDw hasn't worked in 5 years, can probably make a claim that she can't work because she followed me around for my job.  However, since I live in Va., if I prove adultery (and it is there), she gets nothing! One of the reasons I am looking to divorce my BPDw is that I am tired of being tied to her financially.  I can get nothing done with regards to saving for retirement, getting kids through college, etc. without BPDw constantly pushing the budget envelope.  She will go beyond the budget and then go into a rage that there is not enough money for her needs or - and this is always the stock excuse - to buy something the kids need.  Big argument last night, as I deposited $3K into wife's account last month, which she duly spent and then claims I am exagerrating when I point this out.  Sorry dear, but in the real world, the numbers do not lie!

Where I live, "alienation of affection" laws apply too. I think you have to file first, and show evidence that an affair took place. Once you sign a consent order with alimony terms, I believe it may be too late. Go talk to an L and find out what you need to know so you know how it works where you live.

If I were in your shoes, I would play that card because high conflict divorces are expensive and you'll be paying her alimony, plus child support, plus you'll be paying legal expenses. For many of us, those legal expenses don't let up.

My ex pays me alimony, and averaged out, every penny he gives me has gone toward legal expenses. The judge just ruled that N/BPDx needs to pay my legal expenses, but getting that money is a whole other headache.

Protect yourself and your kids if you can.

[Evalon]

You should ask your local legal services attorneys about this, but in my state if you do not ask for alimony when you initially file for divorce, you forever give up your right to ask for it.  I am an attorney, and, ironically, before I had kids I did some legal services work in family law.  I always advised people to ask for alimony, even if it's just for $1.  Any amount can be adjusted later, but you if you don't ask initially, you cannot come back later and ask for it.

Hugs to you.