He read my mail and won't give it back

[motherof1yearold]

I feel extremely violated right now and very angry.

ex just informed me out of the blue today that he 'has a piece of my mail' . He said it was a 1500$ medical bill from the hospital.

Here's how the convo went from there:

Me: " so you opened my mail? you must have since you know the amount of the bill. When are you giving it to me?"

Him: I am not giving it to you... . and I read it because it came to MY HOUSE and had my last name on it!


Here's the weird part, there is NO LOGICAL reason why it would go to his parents house. I have never even known his parents address or zip code and it went straight there. I am legally divorced from him. Please tell me if I'm paranoid,  but I feel like he is the only one who would be going around giving HIS address for MY mail!

What really makes me angry, is that his mother is a mail carrier and they both apparently opened my mail together. This is a huge violation .

How do I go about filing a report on both him and his mother?

[motherof1yearold]

Oh, and I forgot to add that he also made several threats to me, called me an 'abusive bhit' (projection) then started crying.

I'm curious as to why he cried. I'd like some theories on that part.

[Waddams]

I thought it was a federal crime to open someone else's mail?  And who cares if it's his last name.  It's not for him and he apparently knew it!

I'd contact the hospital and verify your address on file with them, and if it has been changed at some point in time in the past.  I'm assuming you gave them your address.  Is there a chance he was able to call, say he's still married to you, and get them to change it?  They should have some record of when they changed the address in your file.

Do you have a way of recording his threatening calls?  My phone has a way to record calls.  Not all do, but is it an option for you?

ETA - sorry forgot to add... . no idea why he's crying other than he's nuts, and there's no making sense of that.

[motherof1yearold]

Not sure about the phone thing , as I'm not very technologically smart Lol.

It definitely is a federal offense to open someone else's mail. I have a gut feeling that he specifically had my address changed to his. His address is his parents and has never been on ANY record of mine in my entire life, ever. I don't even know the address nor have I ever known it.

I feel very violated, mostly confused though.

[Ishenuts]

I second the idea to check with the hospital. IF it has been changed, what other mail is being diverted to his house?

Are you sure the MIL mail carrier is not involved? Have you seen the piece of mail?  Maybe he went into your mailbox and it was never delivered to his house? Also, you could tell the hospital the bill was mangled by the PO and ask the hospital if you could come in and get a copy of the bill "for your records".

Getting a copy would tell you a lot. I like playing detective!

[motherof1yearold]

Thanks Ishenuts,

I have soo many suspicions about this dilemma. I also can't imagine what other mail he has re routed to his house... . the scary part is, I have not gotten any mail in 3 weeks. No bank statements, nothing. Even my family is wondering where my daily mail is.

This is scary.

[GaGrl]

Go to the local post office directly. Speak to the person with the highest position in that facility, and make sure you find out that person's supervisor at the regional level. Tell them exactly what has happened - no mail delivered to you in 3 weeks, no change of address requests initiated by you, an ex husband reporting he has opened mail addressed to you, a high conflict divorce situation, and an MIL who is a letter-carrier. Ask what should be done. Do it. It might involve filing a report or complaint. Then provide your lawyer the same info and a copy of any paperwork.  Give this info to the DV support group.

With the incident last week plus this, you might get an RO with some teeth in it. The mail situation is Federal.

[motherof1yearold]

Thank you very much Gagrl,

I hadn't had a game plan yet but I am confident in your plan and will go to the post office as soon as I get the chance. I am slightly afraid to file a complaint, as the whole family is vengeful . (Ex and MIL mail carrier)

At the same time I cannot let them get away with this. If the situation was reversed , I would already be in prison!

[GaGrl]

He is committing serious crimes with no consequences. You are the only one who can bring those crimes to the attention of authorities who can protect you.

What did you find out about the kidnapping? You were going to talk to a police officer friend.

I'm co cerned that you don't readily recognize how seriously he abuses you, and that you have little sense of urgency to report it quickly.

[motherof1yearold]

Thank you Gagrl,

I am also concerned about my timidness of reporting any crime he has committed against me. I believe I still share the same mindset and fear because of his conditioning me over a long period of time. I fear the repercussions . He is  a sadist and feels he HAS to punish me if I speak about his wrong doings.

I hate to be passive, but at the same time I want him and his mother held accountable for this. I just wish I could do it anonymously. Either way they would put 2 and 2 together and know I reported them.

This is very intimidating to me.

[ForeverDad]

I agree with gagrl, time to file some complaints.

First, though, gather some facts.  Find out from the post office whether your mail is flagged for forwarding or new address.  If so, get the documentation.  Same for the hospital.  Call their billing office and find out what address they're sending the bills to, probably good to call the hospital too to verify that both your address and your daughter's address are listed as you expect.

Sadly, today the lax enforcement of federal laws for mail tampering doesn't seem to scare people as they did in the past.  Still, if your mail has been forwarded or diverted, you MUST report it with a complaint.  If it is not forwarded but is apparently diverted by a worker such as MIL then perhaps the manager or inspector will monitor your incoming mail in a sting operation.  Could your MIL get access to your mail?  Does she work in the same PO or processing center?  She's not your mail carrier, is she?

Spend a few $ and buy yourself a voice recorder or MP3 player that can record sound files or a cell phone with speaker phone capabilities.  Make sure the recorders are models that can download files to a computer.  Hey, today's cameras can record video & sound both.

[charred]

Sounds like your mail is being held or forwarded, either of which takes someone putting in an order to hold or forward it, check with the post office in person, show them ID and you should be able to find out. Get a copy of the mail you say he won't give you, so you can pay with it, deal with it.

You need solid proof of any crimes to get them handled correctly... . pwBPD are good at twisting things back on you, so have some stuff that will nail them.

Good luck

[VeryFree]

Mine stole my mail when we were together.

After we split she wouldn't hand over mail that came to the house, neither would she participate in readdressing the mail by the postal service.

It's all about control.

[motherof1yearold]

ForeverDad,

MIL does work in the same PO that handles my mail. She is not my mail carrier,however.

Charred,

do you have any predictions about he could possibly 'twist ' this back onto me? I certainly expect him to do it, I just don't know how he will go about it. He always manages to surprise me.

VeryScared,

It certainly is all about control. He also felt totally entitled to opening my mail. which is pretty freakish! But of course if the roles were reversed right now, I would be sitting in a federal prison waiting on death row .

[Waddams]

MO1YO - honestly, I wouldn't engage your ex- and his family at all about this.  I'd just go do your investigating, if it turns out your mail is being forwarded to his address now, or if he's managed to get your billing addresses changed, etc., just go file the reports with the proper authorities.  Don't say a word to him or his family.  Hard for them to twist nothing around back at you.

[motherof1yearold]

Yeah I wasn't planning on speaking to him/them about it, I meant that he is likely to twist things around when I file a complaint/report and is questioned about it.

I've never had this happen so I'm not exactly sure what will happen when I report .

[charred]

How could they twist it... . never was great at predicting it, always under estimated her twisting of the facts. My exBPDgf kept a diary... . basically an ammunition bunker really, dates and what happened (that she could use against me.) Her exH was the main target I witnessed and the anger/hatred she expressed now makes me so glad I never was married to her or had kids... . I am luckier in love than I feel like I guess.

Maybe say you told them you did the hold/change of address, and now you are on a NPD witch hunt aimed at him?... . mine would have done that or worse. Each time I got weak and thought, whats the worst that could happen if I got back together... . it was easily 10x worse.

Changing his folks or his hold/forwarding and blaming it on you? No way to know... . all it takes is an email address and a phone number to change one and they don't do much to check it. I travel a lot and put holds on my mail all the time.

[motherof1yearold]

Wow, that is pretty scary. I thank god for these boards because no one else would understand how crazy my ex really is!

[charred]

Wow, that is pretty scary. I thank god for these boards because no one else would understand how crazy my ex really is!

To get back to my point... . you should check with the post office to see if your is held or forwarded, and if so get the information given... . if the email/phone number are yours... . you know what happened but proving it will be hard.

Even if the post office keeps the connectivity information (like IP address the person used to make the request)... . chances are it isn't going to prove that someone else put in the change... . as most ISP's give you a temporary lease on an IP address (DHCP)... . and cycle it through a pool of addresses, some even NAT the addresses, so it wouldn't match anything to the users machine anyway.

Keeping emails/texts/voice mails is a good idea... . when pwBPD get to bombarding you with them, they can cross the line in to harassment/stalking... . and that could be good proof of it. My exBPDgf sent me upwards of 300 texts/emails/voicemails after we broke up... . they were as nutty as she was. I chose to block her on my emails, change my phone number and let family friends know we were apart and check with me before giving out any info.

My sister has a mutual friend of my exBPDgf's... . and my pwBPD harassed the friend trying to get information via my sister to the point the mutual friend pushed the pwBPD away... . and then I got all kinds of crazygrams about how my sinister plan to run off her friends had worked... . the disorder really is something.

[motherof1yearold]

Haha, I love your term 'crazygrams' ! Did you coin that yourself? Hahaha!

Anyways, BPD X always knows to call when he is going to incriminate himself/ say something abusive. I always be sure to insist, several times, that he text or email me. He will make up some excuse that it is very important. He will then say it is very important and about our daughter, when in actuality it was just a way to bait me. He knows my motherly hormones are running high ( ) !

I'm learning more every day.

[charred]

I never heard crazygrams before... . but my exBPDgf made me think of them.

We were broke up, she sent emails, texts and a voicemail saying; I have great news.

I ignored it... . eventually she left a voicemail saying that she was tested and doesn't have Herpes... . isnt' that great,my new boyfriend is thrilled. (We were supposed to move in to start our life together about a month before... . she was a no show.)

Great gal there.

Karma intervened... . about 2 months later the great puffery about the new guy changed... . and she was going to have to have "a procedure"... . then she contacted me wanting my moral support... . the procedure was for an STD he gave her! 

Anyway, the endless array of nonsense seemed like crazy-grams to me.

[motherof1yearold]

Wow what a card!

Glad you didn't get burned in that whole Std mess!

[ForeverDad]

I believe the mail holding and forwarding is all electronic at the post office now.  How they document or verify the requests, I don't know.  The online link says they charge your credit card $1 so they can verify your identity.  I'm wondering if ex gave his and your identity together as though still married in order to sneak it underhanded.

Of course, there might not be any record if MIL walks past and snatches up your mail before your carrier loads up the truck... .

I agree, don't go to ex, MIL, etc.  Just treat it like an identity theft, get the information you need and file the appropriate complaint.

[momtara]

It's a federal crime.  If she opened it with him, she could get in big trouble.  The post office is very no nonsense about that type of thing.  They actually spy on their own mailrooms at times to make sure no one is opening anything.  I've seen the area of a post office where they have inspectors come in to observe from behind a wall.

That said, you may want to think about how far you want to go.  This may not be the case where you want to take a big stand.  I don't want to see him get back at you over something like this, and at least he didn't read anything personal.   I agree with the advice above to call the hospital first and see if your address was changed.

This guy is really bad news, from you past posts.  So you don't want to trip up and make yourself look paranoid.  There is plenty to document about him otherwise. 

I have seen weird things happen with the mail.  My mail has gone to my ex husband's place by accident.  And I have opened his credit card bills by accident.  Stuff like that DOES happen.

SO I think, in this case, try to really think about what to do, but don't jump to conclusions.  This guy is so nuts that he has you on edge about everything, and that's not your fault.  But this one may (MAY) be just a mistake.

If they are doing this as part of a pattern, or it makes you really feel violated, then you may want to report it, but think about it first.  She may get fired, or she may just say it was an accident and then they'll just be mad at you.

[motherof1yearold]

I know for a fact they did not 'accidentally open it' - as he specifically told me had 'had every right to' because it had his last name on it and came to his house.

I am debating on waiting until after my daughters birthday tomorrow to start making calls, as they are very vengeful.

[motherof1yearold]

Just called the hospital , now a wrench has been thrown in!

The hospital clearly stated that the only address they have had on file is my old address, not my ex's.

Now I'm wondering what the heck in really going on... .

I still haven't gotten any mail here in 3 weeks.

[charred]

Check with the post office... . it is very easy to hold or forward someone's mail... . bet that is what he did... . do it in person and have your ID with you. If his mother works in it try to avoid her or go to other post office.

[motherof1yearold]

I just can't understand why he would do this... . it is beyond my comprehension.

[ForeverDad]

That's the definition of a mental illness, it won't make normal, everyday sense.  Factor in all the entitlement, blaming, belittling, retaliation, etc and it sort of makes sense in a convoluted, distorted, twisted way.

The hospital clearly stated that the only address they have had on file is my old address, not my ex's.

Hospitals like many other professionals want to stay out of the contact issues.  We're talking about your hospital visits and not your daughter's visits, right?  While he may claim he has a right to get your daughter's bills, etc and you can debate that endlessly, he has no right to change yours.  I suggest you locate your recent bills from that hospital that have the correct expected address and bring them with you to show that something recently changed.

You may have to go to medical records and find someone knowledgeable to look up a timeline on changes.  (Many people will just tell you what it is currently and claim they don't know how to look up the history of contact changes.)

My ex and I were almost in a bidding war, each of us would change the address for our son back and forth on every visit.  I finally had to bring my court order stating I had legal custody to the hospital's medical records office and fill out a form requesting it to be corrected and then frozen from her future attempts to edit.

Do you have a forwarding address listed at the post office for that old address?  If not, then file one.

[motherof1yearold]

That's the definition of a mental illness, it won't make normal, everyday sense.  Factor in all the entitlement, blaming, belittling, retaliation, etc and it sort of makes sense in a convoluted, distorted, twisted way.

The hospital clearly stated that the only address they have had on file is my old address, not my ex's.

Hospitals like many other professionals want to stay out of the contact issues.  We're talking about your hospital visits and not your daughter's visits, right?  While he may claim he has a right to get your daughter's bills, etc and you can debate that endlessly, he has no right to change yours.  I suggest you locate your recent bills from that hospital that have the correct expected address and bring them with you to show that something recently changed.

You may have to go to medical records and find someone knowledgeable to look up a timeline on changes.  (Many people will just tell you what it is currently and claim they don't know how to look up the history of contact changes.)

My ex and I were almost in a bidding war, each of us would change the address for our son back and forth on every visit.  I finally had to bring my court order stating I had legal custody to the hospital's medical records office and fill out a form requesting it to be corrected and then frozen from her future attempts to edit.

Do you have a forwarding address listed at the post office for that old address?  If not, then file one.

I am speaking specifically of my own hospital bills only, ones that occurred a great deal after our divorce was finalized.

The woman I spoke to claimed she could only give me the address that is on file, which cannot be correct since it went to ex's house, not address on file (which is my old address that cannot receive mail)