Need advice soon before I give the ex an ear full

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

So d11 has been telling me lately that uBPD ex has told her that I'm a liar and my s18 and d20 are liars also.  He's told her that I tried to have him thrown in jail, he's told her that he will not let her turn out like me, that I'm ugly and he doesn't like me anymore, my s18 is a bully but I raised him that way so it's not really his fault, etc... .

The latest stunt has me seeing red.  I'm so ticked right now.  UBPD ex adopted 2 kittens a few months ago.  Don't know why because he ends up killing every animal he gets.  This male kitten was run over because "he didn't see it".  He took it to the vet, lied to d11 about why (told her it was sinus trouble) and it ended up dying the day after it came home from surgery.  So, I took the female kitten to keep it alive with the understanding that if our cat we already had didn't get along with the new cat, new cat had to go.  Well, new cat had to go today.  D11 has cried more today than when she found out that the other cat died. 

Speaking of the cat that died.  D11 confided with me that she witnessed her dad hit the cats because they peed on him.  D11 insists they were scared of him.  That's why I believe he did something to kill the cat.  He's so mean and he's turning on d11 now, yet she still defends him by saying that the male kitten was "just a cat".  In fact, she will make all kinds of excuses to cover him.

He told d11 last week that her and I were screwed in the head.  He threw a fit and snapped at her because I went shopping one day last week and wasn't home for her to get her swimsuit.  I told d11 they had to wait until I got home or her dad could buy a cheap one at Walmart.  According to d11, he lost his mind.

She told me today that she feels like she has to be mean to me or her dad won't love her.  I've known this for some time, but to hear her say those words... . I'm furious.  I'm so mad at him for doing this to her.  I am close to calling him and giving him an ear full.  I know how it will turn out. 

He just left a voicemail telling me that I had no business getting rid of new cat because it wasn't mine and that he isn't an indian giver like me.  WTH?

[Untouched]

So d11 has been telling me lately that uBPD ex has told her that I'm a liar and my s18 and d20 are liars also.  He's told her that I tried to have him thrown in jail, he's told her that he will not let her turn out like me, that I'm ugly and he doesn't like me anymore, my s18 is a bully but I raised him that way so it's not really his fault, etc... .

The latest stunt has me seeing red.  I'm so ticked right now.  UBPD ex adopted 2 kittens a few months ago.  Don't know why because he ends up killing every animal he gets.  This male kitten was run over because "he didn't see it".  He took it to the vet, lied to d11 about why (told her it was sinus trouble) and it ended up dying the day after it came home from surgery.  So, I took the female kitten to keep it alive with the understanding that if our cat we already had didn't get along with the new cat, new cat had to go.  Well, new cat had to go today.  D11 has cried more today than when she found out that the other cat died. 

Speaking of the cat that died.  D11 confided with me that she witnessed her dad hit the cats because they peed on him.  D11 insists they were scared of him.  That's why I believe he did something to kill the cat.  He's so mean and he's turning on d11 now, yet she still defends him by saying that the male kitten was "just a cat".  In fact, she will make all kinds of excuses to cover him.

He told d11 last week that her and I were screwed in the head.  He threw a fit and snapped at her because I went shopping one day last week and wasn't home for her to get her swimsuit.  I told d11 they had to wait until I got home or her dad could buy a cheap one at Walmart.  According to d11, he lost his mind.

She told me today that she feels like she has to be mean to me or her dad won't love her.  I've known this for some time, but to hear her say those words... . I'm furious.  I'm so mad at him for doing this to her.  I am close to calling him and giving him an ear full.  I know how it will turn out. 

He just left a voicemail telling me that I had no business getting rid of new cat because it wasn't mine and that he isn't an indian giver like me.  WTH?

[motherof1yearold]

Wow, sorry to hear all of this.

First of all, I understand he may have been experiencing rejection with the animals that may have caused him to run it over.  , Sociopaths and psychopaths are known to harm animals. Just a note.

Very sorry to hear about how he is relaying messages through the children. Have you ever read 'Why does he do that? inside the minds of angry and controlling men" - if not, I highly recommend you do.

[Untouched]

I have not, but will buy from Amazon tonight.  Thank you! 

I did buy Divorce Poison and am halfway through it.  I've tried completely ignoring the ex and focusing on d11.  It'd really hard to do when she rejects EVERYTHING I say.  It's like her father can do no wrong.

I'm so aggravated right now. 

[motherof1yearold]

I know how hard it is.

Right now, you are the only healthy parent the children have, no matter what false image they have of their father.

I do hope you have intentions of fighting for primary full custody of the children. At your children's ages, they can possibly be called into court to testify about their father (depending on the state)

I recently had a local friend win custody of his 3 children because the mother was bad mouthing the father and generally mentally un well and un fit. When the 2 older children (11 & 14) were supposed to testify , the mother threatened them. she threatened to have the 14 year old's braces 'snatched right out of her mouth' - but thank god she was strong enough to testify and tell the truth.

I also HIGHLY recommend buying the book 'splitting' by bill eddy and randi kreger. About a year ago when I was in your position, other members of this site recommended those books to me and I was mind blown. I actually believe splitting would be more imperative to you right now with the divorce and children situation. PS Randi Kreger is (i believe) one of the creators of this site.

Splitting is a wonderful resource!

[Untouched]

I will buy Splitting today.  I read the sample edition and can't wait to read the rest now!

I'm much more calm today.  Which is good, because I know calling/texting/emailing the ex and "letting him have it" will only further deteriorate the situation (if that's possible at this point).  I just hate what he's doing to d11.  The strain that he's put on my r/s with my daughter is not fair to either of us.  I'm fighting to protect that and her at this point. 

The poison that he's filling her head with is outrageous.  Things I NEVER thought he'd say... . he said.  It's crazy, too.  To scare her from public school, he told her that they won't help you with answers and the teachers and kids are very mean.  He went so far as to tell her that I was the only caucasian in my class at my high school.  I told d11 that we didn't attend the same school and didn't meet until after high school, so he couldn't have known anything about my class.  She still insists that she doesn't think he lies to her.

Thanks for listening. 

[GaGrl]

Your daughter is, at least, being honest with you when she says she feels she must be mean to you or her dad won't love her.  That's a place to start.

Is your daughter receiving counseling of any type?  A starting point could be a school counselor.  A third party who can be objective about what parents are saying is a tremendous resource to a conflicted child.

[mamachelle]

HI Untouched,

Glad you are getting those books motherof1yo suggested.

Why does he do that ? is a really good one I just read years after splitting with BPDexH. Another excellent book for learning validation skills is I Don't Have To Make Everything All Better - Gary Lundberg and Joy Lundberg

Yes, as Gagri says-- having your D in therapy is really important. I would try to do that right away but do your homework first and make sure it is a good fit. Talk to the therapist beforehand about Dad.

Also, try to do things with her like going to the store, cleaning up, boring stuff with structure and try to let her talk. I find being in the car or walking is a good time when the kids are able to look out the window.

How often do you have your D at your house now?  Is there a pattern where she is more agitated on certain days? Many of us find transition days the worst. If your D is going back and forth a lot that can cause more confusion.

Being as structured and consistent as you can is a good start as it sounds like she is getting little structure with Dad.


mamachelle

[Free One]

Have you ever read 'Why does he do that? inside the minds of angry and controlling men" - if not, I highly recommend you do.

This is a must read!

[Untouched]

Gagrl - I'm in the process of looking for a T.  The few I spoke with don't want to take my daughter if there is a chance we will end up in court.  Still looking though.  Also running into a roadblock with the insurance.  Since ex covers d11 through his employer, his insurance company won't tell me anything about coverage/copays/etc... .   The ex won't tell me if he suspects what I'm doing either.  He already fusses about the bills from the ER visit for stitches/ultrasound of her intestines. 

Mamachelle - We still have a non specific schedule.  Basically when ex is off work, he will have her.  Problem is, he's playing that up to d11 that every time he's off work - I have plans for her (making me the bad guy).  He doesn't give the notice that he is supposed to give, yet I get blamed for it. 

Of the books mentioned, is there a particular book that's better to start with?

[motherof1yearold]

I'd start with splitting, as it focuses on those in separation with children.

[slimmiller]

Sorry to hear what your child is having to endure :'(  Its so unfair to rob a child of their youth like that. They (BPDs) are such emotional mosters and when they project and use children to spew their poison, its even worse.

One thing that came to mind reading your story is how much they spew and produce hate and poison much like they do the love and affection when they are in the idealization stage. What I mean is like in your case, he is baiting you to retuen the poison back to him much like he probably did the love and affection when he was idealizing you in the beginning. They use us as mirrors. Thats great when its love they are mirroring but then in the end its their self loathing and hate that they mirror.

Its hard but I find the best thing to do (its hard because they have learned in the past how to provoke us) is to totally NOT allow them to do that at any cost. In other words letting them have 'an earfull' will only hurt you in the end which seems to be the intend subconscously

Focussing on being the one healthy parent for the children is sometimes the only thing we can do. Parenting is tough at times and doubly so when the other parent is acting like a disrespectful angry teenager and purposefull making it more difficult

[Untouched]

I must be looking for the wrong kind of counselor.  The last few I scared off after mentioning what goes on with the ex. 

Can someone give me some tips on who to look for or what to ask them? 

[david]

My ex still tries to get me to react to her nonsense. I have learned (through practice and patience) to ignore it. Eventually when she realizes it ain't working she tries something else. She cycles through several methods but since I have seen them already it is much easier to ignore. I stay focused on our kids. Listen and validate. All communication is through email. This helps document everything. It also gives me time to form a response when needed. I ignore the baiting. If there is one thing that relates to the boys I respond to that one thing. I have noticed that if I give her an "earful" she will repeat a similar behavior. I had a therapist a few years ago and she said negative engagement is still engagement.

[ForeverDad]

negative engagement is still engagement.

You can't reason with unreason.  In other words, he's not really listening productively to anything you might say.  And venting on him is generally just sabotaging yourself since it might give ammunition for more unfair counterattacks.

Your daughter is the one to be most concerned about.  You can't stop ex from being what he is, but you can help your daughter.  Seeking a trained and experienced counselor for her would be wise if she doesn't have one already.  Also, Richard Warshak's Divorce Poison is very helpful for dealing with the parental alienation attempts.

[Matt]

Yeah, trying to talk him into acting (and thinking) differently won't work.

You have basically two tools you can use:  Helping your daughter by dealing directly with her - and by finding the right counselor for her;  and changing the custody situation.  I would suggest both of those approaches, as others have said.

I found a counselor for my kids - then 8 and 10 - by first talking to their school counselor, who gave me a referral.  That worked very well.

At the same time, maybe you can find a good lawyer who has had success in cases like this, and find out what your legal options are.