DD in jail - how to be validating and hold her accountable for her choices

[qcarolr]

Some of you have read my other threads and know DD is in jail for 2nd harrassment/domestic violence charge plus violation of no-contact order with exbf M. She told me "I did not throw a cup of water on him. There were cups lying all around and he picked up an empty one." It will out come out in court eventually. Slow process if she fights the charges - each hearing is about 3 weeks from previous one.

Dh and I really need a break. Need to focus our attention on our own low mood and energy - both of us. And being able to restore balance with gd8. We have been too inattentive with her in our exhaustion. That is for another thread.

My need is to find the courage and strength to let the consequences fall 100% on DD. To let her stay in jail until this case is resolved. To be prepared for her anger and blaming of me for 'rejecting her'.

She has phone privileges to my cell phone - prepaid account is cheaper than collect calls. She has access to call a couple times a day. She expects me to be wearing my phone so I can answer immediately and spend 15 minutes on phone with her. She expects me to support her statements of innocence and being the victim. I have done this in the past - it is the easiest path in the moment to not be harrssed myself.

She called while I was getting gd into car for her weekly horse riding class. I heard phone and did not answer the first 2 times. I answered the 3rd time and let her know I was driving and could not talk long. She wanted to know if I had talked to lawyer, when she would be getting out. I reminded her it was the weekend, that I had called booking and her hearing is Monday at 2pm in jail court, and I am home alone with gd so will not be at court, and will call after 4 to check on results.

I also said I was very dissapointed in her choices to skip her probation class and hang out with her friends. Knowing the risk of exbf being too close by. She made excuses of missing her friends, not remembering the class (I had asked her as she left on Thursday afternoon).

How to validate her feelings of unfairness, lonliness, being abandoned by her family (esp. if we choose to not bail her out next week)... . ?

How to continue to maintain that she is there as a result of her choices -- it is hard to not say those things. Is there a way to convert these statements into questions that would feel less judgemental for her? or will any words feel judgemental for her? This is her problem. Eventually she will need to spend some time in jail for the 3 sets of charges she is facing - why not now? And this will also keep her from getting more charges because she will get lonely and bored and choose to be with her friends and risk being around exbf. She managed a month staying away -- that is her pattern of 4-6 weeks staying focused.

SHe has goals of getting job, place to live and POS car (piece of ___). Can I remind her that the first step is to work with treatment to learn some new skills to be organized and focused to make the job goal a success? That the first step is to make it weekly to a meeting with her case worker? Guess this is all pointless right now. Will keep these thoughts to myself - hard for me. Will work on discipline for self in this.

Why is it so hard for me to do what I know needs to be done? With myself. With dh. with gd. with dd. I have the toolbag of tools and skills to use them. Why do I let it sit on the ground next to me? In my reading the past couple weeks the message is LIVE IT, DO IT. THE TIME FOR STUDY IS DONE. I have gotten this mesaage in several places - bible, mom's mentoring group, reading Brene Brown books, talking with dh, talking with T's... .

Remind me please... .

qcr

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[pessim-optimist]

Oh, qcr,

I am SO with you on the not picking up the tools thing.   

I think that for intellectual people it is easier to intellectualize, think, and read, and learn, and on and on.

And when it comes to picking up the tools, and using them, it requires a bit of a different part of our brain - the relational/emotional part. And that is hard for some of us. It is much easier to exercise those muscles that are strong than to strengthen the muscles that are weak... . Does that make sense?   

On the validating part, I would say: "I am so sorry that this happened to you. Life often seems unfair. You might have to be in jail, because there was an order for you to stay away from M, and you were found where he was." (that way, you can validate her feelings, you can state the truth AND you don't have to make her feel judged for her poor choices)

On not bailing her out, I would say: "I am sorry, we will not be able to do that for you. We love you so much and wish you did not have to be in jail. It must feel terrible to be locked up. What can we do for you, so you feel better while you are in jail?"

On her job hunting, not sure if/when she will be able to hear what you have to say. Maybe if there is a learning opportunity for her, if she is sharing with you, you might gently explain to her that some goals that are worthy of pursuing take a while to accomplish. You might try to see (by asking questions) if she thinks the treatment and skills-learning would help in that process, or what she thinks would be a wise approach... .

She needs the warmth of a close compassionate connection. Knowing your situation a bit (her adoption, her being closed off and not open and vulnerable), it might be hard to accomplish. The walls that she put up are her prison... .   :'(

I pray that somehow, she will cooperate with therapy one day, and through the process, she will be able to take the walls down brick by brick. In the meantime, I hope for her and your family for a little peek over the wall here and there, or permanent windows in the wall here and there... .    

[lovesjazz]

Qcarol,

The best our BPDs did was when he was in jail. He received counseling and meds. We did not bail him out. I know how you feel... . this seems like a never ending road.  You are a remarkable person. Just keep thinking that you are doing whats best for her.

[qcarolr]

So hard to hear DD on the phone, esp. when she is tearful like this evening. Oh how she hates to have to repeat herself. Little by little I will get more of the story - her version anyway. I can easily validate her missing us and us missing her. She wrote gd a letter, and I will work with gd to do letter to her mom tomorrow. I also told her I would register to visit, and overcome my own issues with the visit format. Checking online I need to find a sitter for gd to make these visits. Need to reach out somewhere for this - the neighbors all say NO for past year or so. The summer teen sitter is gone for rest of summer. And I need to work too. Aghhhhhh.

It so quickly morphs from being there for DD to being here for me.

DD has accepted that we are not going to provide bail. She agreed when I said 'you are going to spend some time in jail, may as well be now",  Her fear is it will be 365 day sentence when all the 3 incidents are combined. I am encouraging her to talk openly with her public defender. To call her - it is a free call from the jail. To be assertive with her. That they do not want to talk to me -- she is an adult.

And then there is the tiny, newborn raccoon DD rescued yesterday that did not survive at the wildlife rehab center. I did not have the heart to tell her the babe died. Was euthanized after they left her overnight for the mom raccoon to find - got too cold and dehydrated. After DD had nursed from a glove with milk and kept this babe warm for 10 hours in a pouch at her waist. I am so sad that they did not feel they could give resources for the every half hour feedings, keep caged over the winter, and then face low chance for setting free next spring. Don't know where else I could have taken this little babe. I guess I believed in something that was not there.

How do I tell DD about this?

It is late. Gotta get gd out of tub to bed. Thanks for your thoughts and prayers, and just someone who gets how hard this is.

qcr

[JMK]

Qcarol, So sorry for you and your family.  You made the right decision not to bail her out.  I suspect you have done that on many occasions before.  Have you spoken to her attorney about a psych eval and getting her into resident treatment as part of her probation?  A Judge would look favorably on that, I believe.  I see she has a daughter.  Have you talked to an attorney about getting permanent custody?  She's only 8 and has her whole life ahead of her.  It doesn't need to be ruined by an extremely ill parent.  I know because I've seen it with my SD and gD.  We could get my hubby's ex to agree to take action and our gD has now lost her childhood. At the same time, family and abuse counselors were urging us to do so and even offered to go to court with us. 

My heart goes out to you. You are in my prayers.

[lovesjazz]

Qcarol,

You will find peace inknowing she is safe and you have a chance to put yourself back together... . taking care of yourself first.  God will do whats best for all. Have faith.   That time injail will provide some healing time for her too.

[lovesjazz]

It also saddens me that your neighbors wouldnt help you out with gd.  I dont understand that.

[qcarolr]

JMK - yes, we have bonded her out before. So I know to stay away from the arraignment hearing at the jail tomorrow. The time we did not bail her out, and got a restraining order in our fears of reprisal from her if a friend bonded her out, was such a painful time. She lived on the streets for almost 2 years (2009 - 2011) Guess there is pain and suffering in every direction during these low parts of her cycle.

We do have permanent custody of gd, who has always lived with dh and I. DD has been in and out of her life, as Dd has been in and out of our home. I do know that her love for gd keeps DD getting up every morning. One of my prayers is for DD to get mental health treatment - she has been close in the past month of distress from the loss of this bf - and be able to grow a more consistent, healthier r/s with her little girl. Accepting that she is always going to be the non-custodial parent is not in her realm of reality yet.

And there has been contact from gd's daddy. He is finally in a recovery program, and has been there for about a month, in another state. He left when GD was very young - he helped us get custody before he left knowing this was the best for his daughter. Gd is also his guiding light to get up each day. I have great fears about his desire to have contact with her if he makes it back to our state. And coping with DD's anger when we put restrictions and boundaries in place if this should happen. We do have support for gd with a T and pdoc (she has ADHD as both her parents do, plus lots of anxiety -- not sure what is the family situation and what may be genetic or neurological development).

Hard to find the balance with my compassion and desire for connection with all the parties involved here. The idea of suggesting to her lawyer a residential  dual-dx treatment  directly from jail is a good one. Not sure they will do this for misdemeanor charges. There is not such a program in our county, and this is a county level prosecution. She does have medicaid to help with some of the costs if it continues for her while she in the system. Outpatient care is just not there on a daily basis for her, and when she has a good day (or a vengeful one) she moves away from treatment options. Her denial is powerful.

lovesjazz - yes, I daily am giving DD up to God. It still is hard and painful, easier on some days than others. Have many others praying for our family too. I can see that the current jail outcome for DD is the path that she needs to be safe, for others triggering her BPD rage to be safe (ie bf and others that surround him) and for her to move toward participating in treatment. There is lots of support for her while in jail, if she chooses to ask for it. They often focus too much on the substance use issues and miss the underlying mental health. DD was in jail overnight only a month ago (first harassment/dv charge with bf) and was on suicide watch the whole time. Perhaps this history will give the jailers and court a different perspective. I did take her meds to jail - they will make her take them daily.

Our neighbors were there often for us when DD was homeless and not allowed at our house. They were there for us in the first year she returned - part of the safety plan for gd. DD cycled into a rage in 6-8 week pattern. Dh and I could not bring ourselves to turn her out homeless again as she was slowly making some progress during her calm cycles. I realize now that we have strong denial - mostly about the drug use going on under our noses. When the bf "G" from last year attacked DD in a meth induced rage (DD was trying to break up with him - she did provoke his actions in many ways) the neighbors withdrew. Including denynig Gd playing with their kids. Gd is so lonely in our neighborhood. Only in the past 2 months since we evicted DD again have they been more open to allowing gd some play time with their kids. No one is allowed to come to our home to play. This is so hard for a young child to understand.

The situation really deteriorated starting in Feb 2013 when her bf's mental state went into decline and they entered a breakup-makeup cycle. He was no longer allowed in our home. We have had trouble setting strong boundaries around her bf being in our home since she was 15. We enforced the boudnaries about bf in the house starting in Feb when bf"M" first broke up with her. We called police to have him leave once in March when they were on make-up phase. DD was not allowed back in our home starting May1st when I was just done with her threats against me. She and "M" were living in friends apt. Something bad went down there in June that pushed things more out of control -- and DD into a much more vulnerable, internalzing her pain place. I have never really seen her in this place for more than a few hours before. Then yesterday morning she had put her armour on again after a month of being more open to her vulnerable side. Then a confrontation with bf, and back into jail.

Very complex.

We are hoping for a respite. Will know more after court tomorrow. I will call when results get into system tomorrow evening.

Sharing my story here since 2009 -- this has saved me so many times. Thank you all for listening, sharing your stories, giving me encouragement. We are a story based people, needing connections with each other for our very survival. I strongly believe this as I understand more and more how intertwined our physical, intellectual, emotional and spiritual selves are.

qcr  

[qcarolr]

update:

DD has a bond and get it that we think she needs to stay and serve some time as this will be credited to her when she sees the judge for sentencing. Don't know when that will be. Her next hearing on the charges is set for Thursday,

Am encouraging her to ask for what she needs, though she perceives that jail staff 'do not care, will not answer'. She did call and leave message with public defender office for her lawyer to contact her. I repeated the phone number about 10 times to her during final minute of our call last night (1 minute warning given - 15 minute max per call). She really wanted me to call lawyer, which I said will not work as she is an adult.

She tried to call back last night after her angry call. I did not get to the phone in time, and dh doesn't get how my phone works with no labels on the buttons. (he is very smart but computer and cell phone resistant). Said she did not want to go to sleep with anger between us. I apologized for missing the phone assuring her it was not intentional. Understand she is under a lot of stress.

She is in dorm 'pod' that requires classes. These are mandatory. I think she gets to choose from a list. She is signing up for job skills and mental health program of some kid.     I suggested she keep an open mind and try to get something out of them. And besides, gives her something to do and think about the rest of the day.

During phone call today I was able to ask her questions about her life in jail - did pretty good with being validating for a change. Even though I was at work, had to delay a meeting, and had limited time so could make it ontime to meet gd's school bus. I was able to set aside these frustrations and really focus on her call.  Can visit tomorrow - gd has playdate set up for afternoon. Can't decide if I am up to a whole 1/2 hour of conversation with her talking via phone with glass wall between us. Thinking I will wait until next week for my first visit. We really cover all the details on the daily phone calls.

Her being in jail could be more costly than her living at home. Think her county benefits will be suspended if she is there more than 30 days. Each call is $2.35 on prepaid account linked to my cell phone. She has asked for commissary money for personal care items. I told her we can do $30 a week. Either as cash to her account, or a 'gift box' ordered online through approved vendor. I have to kindly stick to the budget we have set. Dh and I decided this was an appropriate way for us to support her while she is in jail - we are being there for her, not abandoning her. And it just plain feels good. She has been trying so hard this past month to stay connected with us even while struggling with such intensely overwhelming fears and emotions.

Remind myself daily - and dh reminds us too - we cannot predict the future. We can only live in today. There is a great potential for good to come out of all this pain that each of us are experiencing in our own ways. Keep those prayers coming - DD is being vulnerable as never before.

qcr  

[swampped]

qcr:  You continue to be in my thoughts and prayers, as are your dd, gd and dh.  Your wisdom and patience are an inspiration.  I hope you are able to get some good sleep while dd is safely housed and fed.          swampped

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, qcarolr   

You may be right; there really may be potential for good to come out of all of this. Maybe she needed to hit bottom to change her attitude, and maybe the classes she takes in jail will also turn on some sort of switch in her head to make changes... . I've told this story before that it was a crazy bunch of horrible things that caused my dBPDs36 to decide to consider suicide this past February, which set off the process that had him end up finally in the Dual Diagnosis Program that I've wanted him to be admitted to for the last more than 10 years or so. God did orchestrate this "comedy of errors" that seemed so tragic at the time that ended up as a blessing. I really feel this could be happening for your daughter; if you'd had control over her circumstances that ended her up in jail today, I bet you would've made sure none of it had happened. So, maybe God orchestrated it to happen without your knowing it... . Stay strong, be at peace, things are going the way the Universe wants it to. You and your family are still in my prayers... .

   Rapt Reader

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Fay]

Good for you... . I know I have had to set really strong boundaries with my dd.  It is hard but I figured I wasn't helping her any way.  Now, this time around.  I am going to let her stay with me awhile.  We couldn't do it last time and she found her way.  YOUR daughter will be alright and as Rapt Reader pointed out the universe is conspiring to make it happen perfectly for her.  However, it may turn out. 

I learn so much from all of you. 

Thanks you

Fay

[lovesjazz]

Qcarol,

When our son was in jail, we put money in the commisary for personal items,  and the phone. We supported him  that way. I believe it was set up that he could only call us and not a string of friends. He was in for a year. Honestly, I believe it was good for him and iknew he was safe.

[pessim-optimist]

... . Said she did not want to go to sleep with anger between us... .

... . Dh and I decided this was an appropriate way for us to support her while she is in jail - we are being there for her, not abandoning her. And it just plain feels good. She has been trying so hard this past month to stay connected with us even while struggling with such intensely overwhelming fears and emotions.

... . Remind myself daily - and dh reminds us too - we cannot predict the future. We can only live in today. There is a great potential for good to come out of all this pain that each of us are experiencing in our own ways. Keep those prayers coming - DD is being vulnerable as never before.

Those are all good signs!

You are right, qcr, there is no predicting the future; nurture this connection and vulnerability as long as possible. I believe it may be a giant step forward towards your dd getting on the right path toward healing. I wouldn't be surprised if this stage gets interrupted sooner or later by some event, however it might become a huge building block for the future!   

[qcarolr]

Thanks swampped, Rapt reader, fay, lovesjazz, and pesio for the encouragment.

Practicing patience to wait for court to proceed another step before I suspend her phone. Need to go get a replacement food stamp beneift card -- not in her stuff I got from police station. At least she signed an authorization recently for me to be able to do this. Gd can benefit from the food stamps left. Don't know how this is impacted if she is there more than 30 days. Will ask when she gets her sentence.

She called to thank me again for the gift package of food - she got it today even though I ordered late yesterday. Plus she got her personal hygiene stuff she requested. She struggles to do the math - did not know if she overspent on her order Sunday.

She also went to two classes today. Job skills and Living skills. She has more classes she signed up for on Thursday. She doesn't remember what they are exactly.

I know there will be trying times - she gets really bad PMS sometimes. But maybe things will be more stable since they are giving her meds. daily and she has to take them or suffer loss of privileges.

So this is her rtc experience. I actually hope she gets at least 90 days, and then probation if released at less than a year.

Thanks again. qcr  

[vivekananda]

qcr   

Thank you for keeping us up to date.

You started with:

Why is it so hard for me to do what I know needs to be done?

Me too.

sending you and yours Cheers,

Vivek        

[lovesjazz]

She is in Gods hands. Pray to accept his will in all of this for he knows best... . peace to you

[JulySky]

qcarolr:

Please listen to lovesjazz.  None of us ever thought we'd be relieved that our kids would one day be jailed. (We thought our biggest worry was  figuring out how to pay for Harvard or Juilliard.)  We never envisioned in a million years that we'd sleep soundly knowing they were incarcerated, only because our nightmares of a much worse fate for them would be put on hold, at least until they were released.

A terrible sickness has our formerly well-adjusted, happy, bright, laughing children in its grip.

You said you need a respite.  Take it.

[qcarolr]

Missed having time to be on boards past couple days. Need to catch up! An update on DD27.

She has done really well past week. In dorm pod required to take classes - I have looked up and think it is a jail/transistion program. She has been very open to the messages of the first 3 class session in life skills. She has called each day in more positive mood, accepting her stay there as a positive toward getting out and back on probation.

She got along with all 24 other women in her dorm. They supported her in giving different ways to look at exbf pressing charges against her last Friday. I think he pursued contact with her, and then calling police for violation of RO. I will get copy of police report next week for my own verification. This support from peers has allowed her anger to subisde and pondering her part vs. his part to begin. One of her comments was the 'this is mostly older women, my age, so there is less fighting and we are getting along."

Then she called yesterday evening that she had a new skin infection, and was not getting any treatment. The nurse had looked at it - 3 days after DD signed the slip for medical attention. Then she could not give her anything for it without doctor -- this has taken many days in past jail times. She was worried - knows how to treat this as has MRSA history and it can really bad really fast left untreated. I found her antibiotic rx that she keeps on hand and drove it to the jail last night. The night nurse would not accept it since the date was more than 30 days ago (her last infection was in April). I called the refill line to get a bottle for today with current date. Had suggested that DD put heat on it, even if just a paper towel sitting my the sink.

This morning she called - the pain, redness, swelling, hardness, etc was bad. There were limited paper towels, and no cloth towels for her use. The other women were ostrasizing her in fear of the infection being contagious (which it can be if MRSA). So dh and I chose to post bond and bring her home. With the meds and heat it has started draining tonight and will now heal. The pain is better also. She is very very appreciative for our care, and wants to work to continue on a positive path. This means finding support to keep moving, to stay away from her old friends, to be a part of our family. Gd8 was overjoyed to have her mom home. Maybe she will be able to sleep all night in her own bed again.

In waiting for DD's release today there was a woman on the phone talking about a women's transistions program for inmates. I asked her about it - she is a volunteer yoga instructor going into jail to do a class. SHe gave me a card for free yoga classes for released inmates. After 10 classes she gives certificate (and free yoga mat) that can be given to probation officer as part of compliance options if they are in a transistions program or female inmate program. She listed off all these acronyms that my mind did not hold onto. I believe she is an   giving me guidance in advocating for DD in court. To build on the confidence I see in her today.

I looked online and can see the JET transistion program as what DD was doing in jail. My concern is that by bailing her out, she will no longer qualify for this program? DD has given me permission to talk with her public defender on Monday to ask for this at her hearing on Tuesday. DD wants new friends - and can see that she is a good person that can make new friends. She made friends in jail that also want to find a better life.

We ncan benefit with DD here - for herself and for each of us and for the doggies. She can do this with a support network that she can be connected with. I cannot walk or bathe the dogs due to my back problems. And I really want them to be DD's responsibility -- and to teach gd to take responsibility. I need to step back from this as a first step in setting better personal care boundaries for myself. (I will do a new thread on the help reading "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend is giving me this time. I read it a few years ago and set it aside - could not process what they were saying. Now I can)

Hoping this positive week in jail will be enough for judge on the harassment charges, plus accepting her request to reinstate the DWAI probation. Hoping for probation in the transistion program outside the jail.

Thank you for all the thoughts and prayers. All things seem to be coming together for good - out of a very bad situation. I have to trust that this is the best path for now. The isolation that was happening from this infection would undo all the positives that I am seeing.

qcr  

[qcarolr]

And my desire for respite did not come. DD asked for our support with prepaid phone - she did not abuse this. And asked for food with protein as jail serves high carb diet that is hard for her (she is pre-diabetic with weight issues). This was going to cost us more than her being at home and we are so out of money. Just keep praying she can get the support network in place to keep moving forward and stay away from old friends.

qcr ?

[pessim-optimist]

Thanks for the update qcr,

It's too bad the jail system could not properly take care of your dd medically and diet-wise... . She seemed to be making real progress.

Let's hope she will not slip through the cracks now that she is out and that there is some program that will be  a good fit for her... .

It so good to hear that you are all getting along well and everyone is happy at the moment - I pray that you can keep the emotional connection while keeping peace and order in your house... .

Please tell about the Boundaries - will look for that thread (I loved that book, and wonder what others think of it. Just got my very own copy from a used book sale for $2 SO excited!)

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[vivekananda]

Hi qcr,

I am glad you brought her home. If they couldn't care for her, she shouldn't have been there. You are wise enough to be careful being a rescuer.

Boundaries is an excellent thing to revisit. And something I could read more about.

Glad also that gd was happy to see her mom 


Vivek

ps can you do yoga too? you do need some respite   

[qcarolr]

ps can you do yoga too? you do need some respite   

DD has been wanting to do yoga with me for a long time. I even got a DVD that has yet to enter the disc tray! Don't really know my resistance. Think it has to do with my desire for her to 1. be more independent of me 2. make new friends without me in the way 3. i am tired and fearful of increased pain.

And I also know these are all excuses to not take care of myself and to avoid building this new r/s with my DD. What is the willfulness really about? Im not worthy -- need to better focus on this in with my T. So easy to use up the whole time talking about events and avoiding painful issues within myself.  That 'time to quit studying and start doing' stuff.

qcr

[qcarolr]

DD infection doing better. We had one blow up, I was able to keep returning to calm and DD was able to tell me more directly some underlying issues with me that push her emotions. Have to ponder a bit to recall - not taking the time right now. Then we went our seperate ways. She apologized for yelling, I apologized for avoiding.

DD and gd are doing great together, and the doggies are happy to see her. Gd and DD gave them both baths tonight, and I don't have to clean up the mess 

I have been doing pretty good using better strategies with gd - requesting her to use questions instead of a statement or demand - and this really difusses her. I notice DD starting to follow this example. Also changed gd's med time from morning to noon with better self-control from her in evening. After a week changing to 3pm for 2 weeks before school. I need the Intuniv to work through bedtime, and for the drowsiness that has come midday to be at bedtime. I do think this has helped with us all being more calm -- gd less defiant. Just resistant now. Not running away, just walking very very slowly -- but she is coming.

A little anxious about the several appts. need to get DD to this week. have to work that there is not more than one place to call or go per day. She gets overwhelmed then angry. And she is more fatigued with the healing of this infection.

Better be getting to bed now.

qcr    

[vivekananda]

DD has been wanting to do yoga with me for a long time. I even got a DVD that has yet to enter the disc tray! Don't really know my resistance.

I struggle with this too. I avoid doing the things that I know will bring rewards... . eg get up and go for a walk in the morning. Instead I loll about in bed, even when I have had enough sleep.

For me, I think it's a combination of things. 1) I want someone to come along and save me from myself. If I get up and get going, than I am acting responsibly, taking care of myself and enjoying life - it's much easier for me to wallow in self pity. 2) I do not have a life routine of caring for myself. My default is to look to doing things for others rather than myself. So, taking care of myself is not a part of how I think.

Both these reasons add up to the fact that I am not yet meeting my own emotional needs sufficiently. I need to grow up and take care of myself. Stop waiting for someone to rescue me, stop expecting someone else to meet my emotional needs. Be brave and face the world... . blah blah blah.

I wish my dd and I could do yoga together - but only in a class with a teacher. To do it with a dvd would not be productive for us... . too much judgemental thinking ... .

Good news on dd's more responsible behaviour. Good results with gd too. Enjoy the good times 

Vivek    

[qcarolr]

When DD was pregnant with gd I signed us up for a pre-natal swim class in next town. It was at warm therapy pool in rehab center at hospital. I really did not want to go at all, yet knew DD would not go without me. It was good for her - she was battling too much weight. It was good for me to get excercise that warmed my body. After gd born, set up to do local swim class. There was thunderstorm 1st session - cancelled after we were all ready to get in pool. I didnot  go back with her, even though she wanted to go. She was unable to go on her own. It was too much work in the evening for me -- that was my excuse anyway.

Feel like I let DD down this way over and over. Offer her something she wants - feel overwhelmed by one more obligation to plan - say no after I said yes. I still do this with everyone, including myself, almost daily. Even though I know this inconsistency is harmful, I still do it. Then I get twisted thinking - personalize and blame mostly. Then have to find ways to untwist that thinking. This takes extra effort too.

Seems I am mostly just worn out.

DD was overwhelmed this afternoon after being OK this morning. We walked doggies in the rain with gd running along. [dh went nuts tonight - super hyper, distractible, impulsive -- realized it was that 30 hour mark coming off her Intuniv that I forgot at noon. shut off alarm and went on with my day. Also took her to horse riding class that doesn't start until tomorrow. YIKES]

Turns out she had UA - the center told her she will most likely have to take DV classes (domestic violence) that her medicaid will not pay for, added to the alchol/drug treatment classes. And she wants to take life skills and job skills classes. plus yoga classes. And she struggles to get there on the bus. expects me to drive her. So i get overwhelmed too. Not a good time in the car on way home from UA.

She is also worrying about court tomorrow. Not sure what this hearing at jail is called, but don't think it is the pleading or sentencing hearing. That has always been at the courthouse in the past. I will go with her tomorrow - I am the driver. By bus this is 3 connections and extra 2 hours journey. She would do it if she had too, be so hot and stressed by the time she got there, no thinking ability left at that point. I get it why she needs my driving support to make appts. but takes so much from my other responsibilities. If Dh can take on some, he does after work or before work. Will be better when gd gets back to school in 3 weeks.

We stopped in a parking lot, I went into store, then we were able to talk about all this being overwhelmed. Decided we need bigger family calendar by the week, with a 4 lines of boxes. One for each family members needs. Being overwhelmed 'at a glance' (the brand of calendar I usually buy!) And if she fails - off to jail again.

So being able to be somewhat validating and both of us attempting to hold each other accountable after the yelling. Doing the repairs to our r/s on a daily basis -- away from gd too.  Told DD that I am looking for the good to come from all this bad. She just raised her eyebrows. Romans 8:28 is one of my prayers for this belief. It can often work out this way. Hitting bottom motivates to do the work to move in new direction. So my goal is to support, not enable, DD to keep movitated.

Thanks for listening to my story tonight.  

qcr  

[vivekananda]

I just had a thought qcr... . it may not be helpful, but I hope it is. I was just thinking about you juggling your dd's schedule and acting as her taxi etc. That's hard enough but then trying to remind her of what is her next appt and getting her ready to get there by bus or with you, must be a right royal pain.

I have a sometimes busy schedule that I need to keep track of. I use my phone. I have a calendar on my phone that I use and I put everything onto my calendar. If I have an appointment, my phone sends me a message an hour before the time, so I can make sure I get there ok and on time. If I need to I can make the appointment alarm shorter, eg 10 mins before an appointment. Maybe your dd doesn't have that feature, but if she does - that could be a solution to her beginning to keep better record of her appointments. The phone displays my appointments for the day on the face of my phone too, so I can see what I am doing ahead of time, easily.

cheers,

Vivek    

ps Using Google, my diary and dh's can be synchronised to avoid any clashes.

[qcarolr]

DD has the only smartphone in the house. Technically, DD could learn to use her calendar feature. I would be lost without my phone calendar reminders -- well still get lost but that distractibility is another matter

My intuition is that DD wants someone to go with her as a support person. It can be me or a friend. Right now there are no friends - they are all with exbf that has RO against her. She also invites me into some meetings so I can 'ask the right questions' and listen in case she doesn't get something. I can clarify later.

Sounds manipulative - sometimes it probably is part of her denial or avoidance. Other times it is real due to her NLD. I cannot get inside her mind to know. This is one of hardest parts in my r/s with her. What is she able to do, how to step back for her to do it, and what does she really need support with.

On my side - what is my rescuer instinct, what is my need to feel needed. What is that case manager inside me that can advocate for her and validate her. How to be a guide and not a servant? My need for her to just get on with it - to magically be independent overnight.

I have been trying to get her to connect with a case manager for years. How to get her to work with someone enough to build a trusting r/s - or is that possible for her yet? How to support her 'motivation of the moment' to get her connected with the people in the programs that can help her get a job, and place to live and then a car (she loves to drive - gives her a sense of power and control in her life - attracts people to her side that need a ride though these are not true friends - no license until next March due to DWAI).

In these areas she is so much like an adolescent of about 13, maybe even 11 at times. Wanting to be independent without the mental and emotional skills and stability to do it. At age 27, it seems a slow tedious process for all of us.

This is so about relationships, and the true limits on ability to acquire the stability and skills to have stable r/s with BPD. I need to find ways to refill my tank so I can walk with her through this time. Her attitude of wanting to do the work is here now - I can nuture it like a seed in hard soil. Need to tend it, fertilize it, water it, cut away the weeds so the sun can shine in. Breathe on the plant that starts to grow - breathe in a fresh scent as it blooms.

Going to do the flower meditation as soon as dh gone to work while gd still sleeping.

qcr  

[hoping4hope]

"I struggle with this too. I avoid doing the things that I know will bring rewards... . eg get up and go for a walk in the morning. Instead I loll about in bed, even when I have had enough sleep.

For me, I think it's a combination of things. 1) I want someone to come along and save me from myself. If I get up and get going, than I am acting responsibly, taking care of myself and enjoying life - it's much easier for me to wallow in self pity. 2) I do not have a life routine of caring for myself. My default is to look to doing things for others rather than myself. So, taking care of myself is not a part of how I think.

Both these reasons add up to the fact that I am not yet meeting my own emotional needs sufficiently. I need to grow up and take care of myself. Stop waiting for someone to rescue me, stop expecting someone else to meet my emotional needs. Be brave and face the world... . blah blah blah."

Dear Vivek ... . get out of my head!  Just said all this to myself this morning. I too enjoy sleeping and curling up with a cool pillow in the morning.  It is also very peaceful. But it is time to grow up and take better care of myself.

[vivekananda]

Hi h4h, sorry about the head business... . I know, I know, and I promise to stop this mental telepathy ... . but it is fun isn't it? 

I slept in until 7.30am this morn (well I am on hols), and extra 40 mins dozing. Mmnnn so nice. But I did still get up and walk and do all the things I should do to start the day.

I bought an 'essential oil' called motivation. It's very expensive. I do feel more energised when I dab it on. I don't care if it's a placebo effect or what. I allowed myself to fall into a slump ... . all part of the process of grieving I think. Now I hope I am coming out the other side. Gee I hope so.

qcr... . do you think that allowing herself to be 'in charge' of the appointment diary will help her begin to accept responsibility? That doesn't mean you don't accompany her, just that she has to consciously ask you if you can when the appointments are made. And then she has to follow up to see if you are ready beforehand... . ? I understand that this would be hard for her. Perhaps you could start by 'holding her hand' while she inputs the info into the calendar for a couple of weeks, a gradual transition to a more independent way of operating.

Sounds manipulative - sometimes it probably is part of her denial or avoidance. Other times it is real due to her NLD. I cannot get inside her mind to know. This is one of hardest parts in my r/s with her. What is she able to do, how to step back for her to do it, and what does she really need support with.

My intuition is that it is supportive to accompany your dd. But that it is enabling to accept responsibility for when and how it happens and it is of course enabling to speak for her. This can be a learning opportunity each time can't it? An opportunity to learn how to negotiate the system and work with people. Do you discuss beforehand what the meeting is for etc? Do you discuss it afterwards? These are learning opportunities. This legal/justice system is a complex thing, so is the medical one etc. If she can learn how to use the systems to manage them herself, to accept responsibility for making appointments, getting their, arranging your company, discussing what will occur and what has happened, then that has to be good.

Make sense?

Going to do the flower meditation as soon as dh gone to work while gd still sleeping.

So good  . I am going to build regular meditation into my day. Just have to figure out how... . it needs to be on a regular schedule for my mind to stick to doing it... .

lotsa best wishes,

Vivek