Now whats going on?

[heronbird]

Things keep changing every day at the moment. For the last three weeks its like dds been asleep. She has been distant from her baby and seeming to just want her old life back, going out drinking with bad girl friends from the past.

Her dh is suffering, trying to work everything out, he too seems to live by his emotions only. He has no experience of BPD although he met dd and she was showing signs of BPD, that was about a year ago now, for the last 9 months dd had been extremely well and he thought she would always be like this. So its a shock to him.

Today, dd suddenly gets a lot better, for the first time in 4 weeks she fed the baby this morning, then later she came round to my house to see me and the baby, she was much better in her mood, maybe a bit too happy if you know what I mean.

Thing is she keeps telling me what to do, she says it in a bossy way. Thats fine, I dont mind but I told her that I think its time we upped the bottle so instead of 5 oz it would be 6, that means we need 6 scoops of milk. Also I told her I dont like to disturb baby if he is feeding or asleep, I told her that her dh sometimes wants baby back home at 7 pm, but I feel bad because baby is asleep or feeding. Dd said to me that I must not disturb baby and wait until it is a good time to bring him home, never mind what dh says, she is saying it so she will tell her dh and he wont mind.

Thing was, I told her we were bringing baby home at 7pm, at 6.30 she rang me, she was bossing me about again, remember milk is giong up, and dont bring him home if he is asleep or having a feed. Then I can hear her dh in background getting a bit cross, she covers the phone and says if it wasnt for my mum the baby would be in care, you need to be more grateful.

Why do you think she is doing that?

Then we dropped baby home at 7, I got a text from her at 7.30, she said why is one of the bottle lids a bit yellow? I had texted her about that 3 weeks ago telling her it discoloured because I put it in dishwasher   she  obviously didnt remember and at the time didnt seem to care.

She then told me that I didnt refill the bottles I gave her back to the exact 6oz mark, it must be exact and exactly 6 scoops, we have to get it right, but we had been through all this before.

Its ok, I will just validate but Im just a bit unsure why she is repeating this all the time and yet I have the baby for 12 hours a day and all weekend with no texts asking how he is or anything, they never used to ask what feeds he has or nappy changes and all normal stuff that people ask.

Anyway, I did reply to her text, and she ignored me so it cant have been that important. I could have got really upset and taken it personally.

Yesterday she was saying to me that she has just realised how good I have been, I never moan and she really wants to buy me a lovely pressie, she said if I see anything I want just tell her and she wants to get it for me.

Sshe asked her brother in secret if I leave the baby to cry at all. He said no, but I should sometimes it wont hurt, he told her that I do a fantastic job and I am always cuddling him. I have told her this all the time, I tell her I look after the baby just like you would, I know what you want for him and I am doing it exactly like you would. I never leave him to cry, you cant hes too young.

Sorry Im going on now, babble babble.

Its a hard time right now and really need more insight to everything. I thought it was hard before, but now there is a beautiful baby involved so its harder.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

heronbird

Are you finding time to rest? I can hear how tired you are in your post... . please take care of yourself... .

Do you think all the questions is your dd's way of feeling more involved? I see this as a good thing... . is there a way for her to take more responsibility? Have the baby more? even if it is one of two days a week? Is there a plan going forward?

[pessim-optimist]

Hi heronbird,   

You have it tough! Yet, it is also wonderful - you get to cuddle the baby all the time - they are so precious!

I am not an expert on this, but here's my two cents (what do you say in UK? I think Ausies say two bob... . ?):

So here goes:

I think your dd is happy that you care for the baby - otherwise it might have been taken away and she knows it.

I also think that the overly perfectionistic demands/suggestions come from the fact that:

1. she wants everything to be done right for her baby (and this is her first, so she has no experience),

2. add the fact that pwBPD are sensitive. She probably doesn't understand that a little more or little less than exactly 6 oz doesn't make any difference (what if she was breast-feeding? haha - cannot imagine how that could be measured - maybe timed? Just kidding  )

3. also, she probably wants to start feeling like she is in charge (it IS her baby after all)... .

4. Also, she might want to feel competent (regardless of her insecurity)

  What do you think?

It is all new for her and her dh. For you too - as a grandma I mean.   

[heronbird]

Hi yes thats true, well jellibeans, I have not had a proper nights sleep in 4 weeks dont forget, I am busy during the day, a baby is unpredictable and demanding, yet I have other pressures too with BPD worry etc. Yes I am tired, today, I had the first normal sleep. I am also useless at sleeping in the day.

Not sure of a plan to move forward, this is a challenge for social services, because as you know with BPD, they get better, then what happends? unpredictable and no good for baby.

They are having a meeting next Tuesday to discuss what happens from here, at the moment dd does not want baby full time. She is not allowed him on her own either.

Pesim, yes good insight, I forget she is a perfectionist, because to look at her you would never know it. Yes all new for us, very true.

I understand she wants everything right for baby, but I guess what I didnt say clearly was, she had told me about an hour before when it was just me and her. Now she is phoning me to say it on the phone all over again in front of dh.

She is saying, dont bring baby back if in middle of feed or sleep, well I had told her its not fair on baby when her dh wants baby at 7pm, I have to take bottle out of his mouth seems mean etc etc. She said to me I must not do that, and dh can wait until baby has finished feed.

So she is telling me all this again an hour later while dh is there. I can hear him sounding like he is cross. Then at one point he shouted "Ill make all the decisions" She starts saying, no, I can as well its not just up to you.

She had covered the phone but he sounded nasty, yet he is so quiet normally I was surprised the way he spoke to her.

You know he finds it hard that I am having the baby, he sees me as a threat I guess.

DD  wants me to have the baby the whole time but her dh insists he has him at night. dd wants me to have baby once a week over night dh said its up to him not her.

She is just trying to be sensible because she thinks she may not be able to do the night feeds with her medication, he gets really upset that she wont help him, I think she is trying so hard to please him.

Gosh, Im like the third person in their relationship now. I always said Id never be like this.

Are you tired of reading my posts haha


Yeah, I had a break for 9 months, everything in this house was non BPD for 9 months. Remission, dd called it rescission, so funny.

Im off shopping today with my older dd, yeah. got no money mind you but still a few hours me time, we will get lunch.

Also grandaddy is brilliant and as he works shifts he is here in the week to help and he is really loving gs

Thanks for your replies, they always lift me

[js friend]

oh Heron

These are tough times you are having with your dd   

You really do seem caught in the middle.

I guess your SIL just wants to see more of his son. i bet he never imagined in a million years things would turn out like this.

It must be so hard for him so I can understand why he reacts the way he does.I bet he doesnt mean it. my guess it is just down to frustration. He works all day and  then only sees his son at night, and probably up quite a few times to feed him... . think how tired and frustrated he must be feeling.

Lets hope they come up with a plan to move forward at the meeting next week.

Even parenting classes would be a good idea for your dd right now.

... . And im definitley not tired of reading your posts.    

[griz]

HB:  You are simply amazing at how much you are doing, but you also need some you time and time to get some rest.  I am glad you are going out shopping with your other D today.  Is it possible that social services might give you someone to come and help you during the day with the baby?  If they could that might make it a little easier for you and give you a little break.

Your SIL is in a no win situation and he must be very frustrated.  Not the life he envisioned and certainly after seeing things going so well for 9 months and then have it turn around.  Do you ever have time alone with him?  Maybe when he comes to pick up the baby you could spend a little bit talking and see what is going on with him. 

I hope you have a restful day today and kiss the baby for  me   

Griz

[heronbird]

Thanks, no, I dont want another person looking after baby, and my dh helps a lot now, hes bathing him now.

So, the deal today was I went out for the day, dd was bringing baby to me at 6. I was having lunch with my older dd at the shops when my mobile rang, it was sil, he asked me what time I would be home, he didnt say why, I said 4 ish, im out at the moment. Have to get train back. He said dd just had a massive breakdown at the shops and he cant find her.

I just validated him and said Id see him later.

About half an hour later he texted me saying its all ok now.

Phew!

Half an hour later I get text from dd saying , is anyone at home, someone really needs to take baby, dh is freaking out so badly everythings got on top of him and he cant cope not even for one more second.

I said no, you have to wait, Im just getting on train now. She asked if her brother was home I didnt know.

Anyway, so urgent and panicked me.

when I got home, baby was here, daddy had dropped him to my son. i dont think he was supposed to, now Im worried social services will make a fuss and threaten me.

Cut a long story short, dd told me that her dh cant sleep,  been awake every night. Hes not being nice to her just like I thought, when I heard him last night. To my face he is so calm you would think he was placid and nice.

She was so upset saying that he is so horrible to her, she tries to do her coping strategies and he wont let her. I said I want the baby for two nights not one, she said she thought that was so brilliant and thanked me, But I think that will be another row, he wont like that.

So I know whats going on now.

Poor baby being shoved around when his parents emotions run high.

[jellibeans]

heronbird

here is the problem I see... . who is telling the truth here? SIL or dd? Seems there is a real problem with their relationship... . Is he who you think he is? I feel somewhat afraid for your dd. Does your SIL have mental problems as well? It might be good for all concerned if you talked with social services and expressed your concerns. You paint a very unstable picture of your SIL... . What do you think?

[pessim-optimist]

Hi heronbird,   

I wonder if we are seeing some    with your SIL... . (of course could be just him being tired - he hasn't slept properly; stressed that if they do not keep the baby all nights, the social services will take him; and not coping with dd's being overwhelmed). That being said, I would keep an eye on things, if I were in your shoes - to try to discern if it is just the stress, or real 

Your dd talking on the phone in front of her dh - that is a typical strategy that our sd uses with her dh, when she wants to tell him things that she knows he would not like... .

Do the social services need to know every detail of where your gs has been? Are you obligated to keep a log or something like that? (just wondering if there is a way to not involve them in the fact that gs was dropped off at your son's - that sometimes happens in "non-bp" families also, if there is a conflict of schedules... .

Take care of yourself!   

[heronbird]

Hi,

Well, you know the type of people pwBPD chose   when we first met him we were really upset going by looks, then as he is a local guy my son did some research and heard that he was drugging dd up and tattooing her, he has had a bad past but nothing too serious, maybe you may think of him as adhd type.

So no, he is not stable.

However, social services say they have to give him a chance, he has nothing much on his files anywhere to say he would be a danger to the baby. Also, yes I think maybe slight mental health issues but never hospitalised, he did however go to to the mental health unit that my dd is under a few years ago, they would not pass the information on to social services because of confidentiality   issues

So, we dont have anything concrete.

First of all, I believe my dd, I can weigh up situation and I know she is not lying. She broke down when she was telling me how horrible he is being to her. Yes I worry for my dd, last time she was in this situation she had a massive breakdown. She is really well in her thoughts at the moment, its like she is fine but he isnt.

The situation with social services is that I really want to tell them so they can see what position I was put in and also that its not just dd who is unstable.

Last time, I let dd go round the block with baby, social services started threatening me to put baby in care, said I am obviously incapable of saying no to dd so I can not do the job. I dont even know why I did it, I think I thought it was ok. They thought I was collaborating with dd. Anyway, it was ok in the end I said I was sorry I wouldnt ever do it again.

I think I am going to tell them this... .

"I am not giving them the baby back, why, because they are treating him like an object... . They want him, they dont and so on, its not fair on the baby. At the weekend I wasnt supposed to have him, Id agreed for him to come at 6 pm, I was out shopping and I got text from dd in a panic. I couldnt get home quick enough, she said it was urgent and couldnt wait a minute. So my son was going to their house to assess the situation, make sure baby was safe. Then about 5 minutes later sil dropped baby, didnt ask any questions, I got home about 10 minutes later. Im going to leave my son out of it as much as I can.

Thing is, we didnt even know where they were, they werent at home anyway. I need social services to know that sil breeched the deal, and that he is struggling a lot now.

Pessim, thats interesting your dd does that on the phone, so horrible. Gosh I wouldnt put up with that with my dh. This is all so weird.

Anyway, they are probably all ok now they dont have baby, feelings are facts to them.

Oh by the way, where did sil go after he dropped baby? Skate park, then dd flew in with her dad, she met him at train st from work asking for cash, quite a lot of cash, she had it in her bank, lost her card as usual so she transferred it to his account. No time to talk, off to meet her dh, then they are going out for the evening.

Im tired just thinking about it.

Pessim, I am not obliged to keep log, I do just for me in case. Social services only want to know if I am worried about baby in anyway. I am not really, apart from they want him, they dont.

I mean, if sil has said he wants baby at 7pm, it has to be 7 even if bottle is in mouth or hes asleep. Yet dd is saying thats too unsettling its not fair, so keep him etc

[js friend]

oh Heron Things just seem to be going from bad to worse here.  

Im not suprised you dont want to think about it anymore. You must be emotional drained.

no way can the situation carry on like that. your poor gs needs stabilty.

So your dd is saying her dh is horrible to her... . treating her badly, making her upset, and she is feeling overwhelmed.

... . so would she consider coming back home with the baby if things are so bad, would it be something she would consider, or do you think they both just want their freedom?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[pessim-optimist]

Oy oy oy, Heronbird, now I understand better about your sil... .    

Dd is in for some struggles with him for sure... .

Sounds a bit like children raising children, doesn't it?

I also understand better about you wanting the social services to know about the situation with dropping off the baby unexpectedly... .

Even though I am still trying to put together why it was such a no no with the social services to let your dd go around the block with him (I mean, in regular situations, it would be ok to let a 12 year old relative do that, so why not dd   )... . Are you the only one authorized to "have him"? Who has custody of the child at the moment (is it the state)?

Maybe I am missing some details, but to me it seems the social services are too involved in some aspects and not involved enough in some others... .  

[heronbird]

Pessim, Parents still have custody but dd is not allowed him alone, mainly because she thinks she cant cope so she asked me to have him. Its quite unofficial but it isnt. Sorry Im not used to all this, Ive just become an expert in mental health services now all new with social services.

I am being assessed all the time I believe by ss, they often think grandparents are overbearing and controlling so I have to be careful they dont think that, I dont really think I am, but I probably think I know more than them as I done it 4 times and work with under 3s for the last 17 years. But they are the parents and I believe they should do it their way too. I mean, Ive worked with all sorts of different parents with all different ideas, you just let them get on with it, dont say much, so not too different in some ways.

Its not the state that has custody, Im not sure, I guess its me and sil, but Im sure its my dd too, they have not taken that away from her, sorry, Im not too sure am I

Js friend,

I keep thinking of that, Im wondering where this will all end up and it seems a really good idea at some point for dd to move back here, maybe temporary though, as I dont think she will like that, but it does seem like a solution if things get worse.

Im not sure if she would consider it actually. Ive kind of made a commitment that baby what ever happens will always see daddy and obviously mummy.

You wouldnt believe what a cute and content baby he is, he is so lovely. He does seem unsettled when they first bring him in the morning, but now Ive had him since yesterday, he is just a model baby. Smiles so so much, looks so perfect. Hes just been awake for the last hour, just happy looking at his toys and loves me and my older dd talking to him, he is so happy, now I just put him to bed, he was awake but he will just fall asleep now.

Ill let you know what happens tomorrow when I phone ss, Im dreading it, so worried they will take him away from me, they seem to keep saying about putting him in care. I feel blackmailed by them now. I feel I owe it to dd to help her with baby, dont know why, just do.

Thanks for your support though

[pessim-optimist]

I am being assessed all the time I believe by ss, they often think grandparents are overbearing and controlling so I have to be careful they dont think that... .

Ill let you know what happens tomorrow when I phone ss, Im dreading it, so worried they will take him away from me, they seem to keep saying about putting him in care. I feel blackmailed by them now. I feel I owe it to dd to help her with baby, dont know why, just do.

That's the thing, I would feel confused by them - thinking grandparents are overbearing, then, they were upset you were not "strong enough" to say no to dd (not being overbearing)... .    

Do they have any guidelines or clear rules that are explicit and measurable, that they could share with you, so you don't have to keep guessing what would please them?

It must be so frustrating for you... .    

[heronbird]

Yes thats right Pessim, If I say too much they call it controlling, I call it caring.

I have not spoken to them yet.

When I told my mum about the weekend she said maybe I should let the baby go to foster parent, its all a bit much, they are using me too, well abusing me really arent they and I am being so so good.

I cant bear to think of any stranger looking after him :'( either way, I cant win.

If I keep him Im stressed and abused, if I dont, I will cry every day, plus knowing that my poor dd would be devastated, could even trigger a crisis for dd.

[qcarolr]

Heronbird -   it seems so impossible to balance life when there is so much uncertainty. Espcially who is really 'in charge' of the baby.

I have been in this place with my DD and my gd. Please please get some breaks to keep yourself healthy. I got very very sick in that first 2 years with gd. We pursued custody privately -- it is hard to get without support of social services, though we were lucky with the daddy convincing DD to agree. We could not cope with her constant threats to take gd away, knowing DD could not care for her properly. (daddy was in jail at that time, and DD was lost and alone and off doing drugs with her friends).

Social services should be able to say who has legal custody of baby. IMHO it should be the court, and there should be some formal agreement made. Sounds to me like they do have some agreement since they are placing him with you, and threatening to take him away if you do not have good boundaries with your DD, and now seems some with SIL as well. They need to know of the early drop off by SIL, and the panic there. And that you did your best to get home as quickly as possible. And that the baby was totally safe and cared for with your son. Keep that diary going.

Please DO NOT have your DD move into your home. This really really complicates your having care of the baby. There need to be clear limits for the best interests of the child always. And this is so hard when we love our grown child too, and worry about their safety and health. Your DD is making sound choices for her child by wanting you to provide the care. She knows who SIL is better than any of you, and it seems there is some angry stuff going on there. He sounds very controlling to me - and is using this child to manipulate all of you to get his needs met. IMHO

The relationship between your DD and her dh is not your problem! Do your best to encourage her to find the support she needs to work through the marital difficulties. The only way they can be involved with their child is to use good strategies. It is awesome that you DD knows she has strategies and is trying to use them. What can you do to validate this as a good choice for her, and to encourage her to find support to use them. Is there another place she can go to get some space away from SIL?

THis is all so painful and confusing. My best was when I could really focus my attention on my gd and step out of the way for DD to figure herself out. And I have not been very good with this many times. Especially when I am tired. Yet, things are getting better between DD and all of us, at least for now.

Hang in there - keep us posted. I am keeping you in my thoughts and prayers daily.

qcr    

[heronbird]

Thanks qcarolr, very interesting and nice to know others have been through similar things.

I find my case a bit different in that SIL wants to be in charge and wants my help but moans about me being overbearing or what ever he calls it. He said I was trying to take over because I kept a few clothes here, well, thats what people do when they have babies living with them most of the time.

Social services tried to get him to sign baby over to me or something, he was angry said it was all my fault, he told my dd that I had said he is a rubbish dad and cant look after the baby. Obviously not true. I never said that. My poor dd had to try to stick up for me and she was going through a crisis at the time.

I have heard that what I might have to do is go to court to apply for a residency order so baby can live with me, they would still have him as much as was agreed, same as now I believe. How awful would that be? SIL would hate me and then Id loose any small relationship I keep trying to keep.

I told social services what happened, she didnt seem too bothered, she said my son is allowed to have baby, so I worried all weekend about that for nothing.

She said do I think it was a real emergency or just abusing me   I said real emergency.

She said we have to see if they are capable of bringing up the baby/parenting the child Thats a joke. They cant even have him for a weekend, what the hells going on here.

You were lucky, your case was black and white at the end of the day. At the moment my case is complicated by the fact the dad wont let go, yes he has issues, some are serious but not on paper so social services say they have to give him a chance, but I would have thought he has proved he cant cope haha

Im off on a little holiday in two weeks, if baby comes too, thats fine, if sil says no, then Im switching my mobile off.

Im scared I will miss him, Im all confused, I need the break when he goes but Ive had him nearly 5 weeks now, its not like normal granma is it.

At the end of the day, Ive figured out Im the only one who genuinely cares about him and his long term future.  Hes just a commodity to them. Bring him round when it suits them.

I wont have dd move back qcarolr, thanks for reminding me of that, you are right. I dont want to be the third person in the marriage, its her choice she chose him she needs to get on with it. The thing that  is hard is that all the things I have learnt to support my dd is not happening with her dh . I cant protect dd for all her life.

I dont feel as blackmailed as I used to at beginning, so thats a relief.

[js friend]

I dont feel as blackmailed as I used to at beginning, so thats a relief.

Well its good that you are feeling more positive Heron.

I only suggested your dd come back home if she was really ready to leave her DH... . but in hindesight and not thinking,if she is anything like my dd she would probably just go on seeing him behind your back anyway. One of my own boundries with dd is that she doesnt involve me in any of dramas she has going on with ex/bf. I just want to be here for gd and thats it. I have had enough of it... I dont want to be involved in their ins and outs and be the peacemaker anymore.

In an ideal world your dd could come home and you could all just concentrate on bringing up gs, but as qcarolr story reminds us the reality and the absolute turmoil it would bring gs and your home would be too much to bare so she is right to advise against it... .

Is the residency order be permanent or temporary? It sounds like a good idea if you are the one to be in control of when they pick up g's and drop him off.Did your  dd and sil have anything to say about it?  In the meantime why isnt the sw more concerned about gs being shuffled aroound like this. This kind of thing really makes me sad.

When Iam with my gd bys myself  I just know she appreciates everything iam doing for her, and your gs does too Heron. We love them with all our    and they know we do.

Stay strong Heron, and try to get some rest if you can  

[heronbird]

Js friend,   I forgot you mentioned dd move back, I had that thought myself you see. I thought if dd breaks up with sil then that might be an option. But as qcarolr said no, not a good idea, Ill stick to that.

Its very strange, I seem to have a good relationship with dd, I guess its from years of experience with her BPD behaviours, just like everyone on here has too, we take it for granted how good we get with time, (experts by experience)

Shes been texting me a lot today, asking me to help her out with stuff, well I though sil should be doing that for her, she said he would never offer to do it for her. Its just she is so ill at the moment, she cant cope with even sorting out a prescription or something like that.

Dd said that she would like me to have residency thing, but her dh wont allow it. I actually asked how she sees the way forward, she says she thinks its going to stay like this long term. Im sure it wont, Im not sure what outcome there will be.

She is saying she really wants therapy, she is just being so good right now. She tells me that her dh insists on having the baby over night yet when she cant help him he gets so angry with her, he just wants his baby home with them all the time. Yet look what happened last weekend     

I dont know if residency order is permanent and I dont really see much difference, although maybe Id have baby over night, do I want that. I quite like a break, Im getting the best of both worlds right now, good night sleep.

Yes, the poor baby. Its so unfair for him. Social services dont seem to care,  I dont understand that. I told them at the beginning that its unfair on the baby and she said hes the dad he has to have a say, they have to give him a chance. What about listening to my dd.

Yes, I dont want to get involved with their marriage, its not ok to do that.

qcarolr, how old is your granchild now, how is she, how do pwBPD children end up? could he have BPD? Will he end up with mental health problems from this mess?

In my house its calm, not noisy, well balanced calm people like me and dh look after baby, we would never get cross with him but gently have rules. I know all these things help.

I wonder a lot about that.

[qcarolr]

Heronbird,

Gd just turned 8 and will be going into 3rd grade soon. She is very excited. She has quiet temperament anyway, and chaos of life with mom in/out in/out has not helped. She also has dx of ADHD and is on some meds that do help with hyperactivity and impulsiveness. Attention piece is hard to sort out as is worse when I am giving more attention to DD needs and less to gd needs. Dh has stepped up a lot with gd when he is home from work. Though he is very tired from his new boss - talk talk talk - and of course all the stress of DD legal situation etc.

You situation has me pondering the 'if I could do it over what would I do different'. Well I would have better tools for boundaries around friends living in our home so I could avoid dealing with DD. Better self-care boundaries. Be more consistent and less emotional/over-reacting -- ie. self care again. it would go all the way back to when dd was 2 and I sought counseling with her the first time and walked away because it was too threatening to me as a parent feeling blamed. I realize now that much good advice was given that I could not take in over the years with dd. Am trying to do it different with gd.

Always trying to nuture r/s between gd and dd. Would have found more support to help DD focus on being the non-custodial parent from beginning. ie. me having attitude that this is permanent situation regardless of what future held. This would have provided more consistency for gd. I have tended to dance the dance with DD visits as DD wanted. needed to say, here is schedule when you can see her, take it or leave it. Still struggle with this.

Don't know if any of this is helpful. As you can see, I struggle with getting dd and gd all mixed up in my mind. And they are such different personalities.

Wish I had money to do neurofeedback T with gd for her ADHD. Maybe this would limit tendency to move toward BPD. Have to ponder this deeply. Wonder if any family would help with this as a gift for gd. maybe need one of those facebook fundrainsing pages, huh

Lots of hard decisions. I may be worth the risk to r/s with SIL to pursue at least temporary residency order. This little boy needs to not be tossed back and forth so - consistency is so important at the delicate brain development stage. have you read Brain BAsed Parenting yet. It is book reviews.

qcr  

[heronbird]

Hi qcarolr,

How sad, I look at this lovely little perfect looking baby, smiling away and I wonder, I really wonder :'(

The problem you have and me too now, I love my dd more than gs. So how can I not help her. Recently she has been phoning me up with her problems, does she not realise I had her tiny baby here, who didnt ask to be born actually. So I just played the game with her, I validated her while she was on speaker phone, her or baby didnt even realise there was any problems, its a nightmare though when wanting to concentrate on baby, he has rights too I think.

Dd is always asking me to do things for her, she says she cant do it, get meds from doctor things like that. Docs keep on and on getting her meds wrong its so bad, dd notices, and cant cope. I thought dh was supposed to be doing that.

In UK, when you have serious long term mental health issues, they have something called a personal budget for these people, the limit is 6 thousand pounds, it could be more but that is it. So out of that she could get gym membership, lap top for college course, pay for college courses, or any courses. She could do horse riding lessons, driving lessons, things like that, its a social fund, they wont pay for private therapy though. So dd wants gym membership, she has asked a lot for this in the last 6 months and nothing much has been done, so i emailed the worker that dd has to ask her to sort it for dd, I said to dd that she should do it really.

Sorry, gone off subject now.

I know I could really help this little baby if I had him, I think sil has adhd, what hope does baby have?

so sad :'(

Also, they did  mention paying me to have baby, I said to dd if ss pay me, then I will be able to afford private therapy for dd.

By the way, what do you think about this. I said to dd how would she feel if baby lived here, she said she would like it, I said you can come over anytime to see him, she said I dont like coming to your house because it has too many traumatic memories. Haaa What, I mean, she had a lovely life. She came the other day and said how nice it was to be here sitting in my lovely garden etc, she was so happy to be here. Her bed room reminds her of taking ODs and crying for 3 years in there.

She has been asking for trauma therapy recently. Weird really when you think, I think we all need trauma therapy for what we went through with her

You see, I work with children, preschool mainly, I have had a couple of families from ss, one boy was 4 when he started, they didnt tell me anything about him, it soon became obvious that he had complicated problems, when I found out what his problems were, I worked with him and changed him in 3 months, they were shocked how he became just like a normal child. I love working with these sort of children, they are a challenge, they get so excited just when you read them a story, its so satisfying for me.

Then you get the children who get everything, completely spoilt in everyway, sure they are nice and fun but I love the challenge of helping children who have been, well, neglected basically.

I recently had a family, mum was in her 30s, she had 6 children, oldest were twins age 17 I think, one of them had beaten her up and lived in assisted housing. I think maybe the mum had BPD in the end. She was lovely though. One day she brought one of them to me, he was 3 so cute, he had wet himself and trainers were wet, I said I will put them in washing machine, she said no dont, they will disintegrate they are so old and worn out. I really wanted to buy him some new ones, but then I remembered, she just got back from Florida, she took all her kids there   She bought UGGs, smokes mind you she did try to give up. Stupid boyfriend etc.

Anyway, she had to leave because her life was so chaotic she couldnt stay with me. Such a shame, but everyone said when they saw me out with three of her kids, how different they were when they were with me, than when they saw her with them.

So I think I may be able to help this little baby, maybe. Oh dear so heart breaking,

So you worry that it was bad enough going through BPD with your dd, now you may have to go through another complicated thing with gd.

Sorry, that was long winded message

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

Heronbird,

Keep up encouragement for your DD to do as much as possible for herself. I am really trying to come up with better boundaries about what I will do for my DD27. I will  not always be here to do FOR her. Trying to connect her more directly with case workers - but they do let her down. And I think this is a training issue for them, and lack of understanding how hard it is for her 1. know what she needs 2. how to find the right words to ask for what she needs.

DD often asks me to go into meetings with her so I can 'ask the right questions'. So I see her starting to gain awareness of what her needs are, and one of them is her struggle to the 'how' to get these needs met.

Yet when she is out with friends, she seems to manage fine without me.

So hard to step out of her way. The consequences are so hard and so real. Well, guess she does not always do so good with friends. BPD impulsive and emotional intensity has her in so much legal trouble with latest breakup. exbf being very vengeful.

It is tough love. And with the sweet gs in the picture, makes it even harder.

My computer is messing up. I will check back tomorrow evening to see how things are going for you.

qcr  

[js friend]

Dd is always asking me to do things for her, So dd wants gym membership, she has asked a lot for this in the last 6 months and nothing much has been done, so i emailed the worker that dd has to ask her to sort it for dd, I said to dd that she should do it really.

I think you are right to leave it to your dd's worker to sort out Heron.

You have got enough on your plate at the moment and your dd's worker may be able to find yourr dd a reputable gym and get her free gym membership based on a drs referal, and your dd will be able to have a trial to see if she likes it or not.

I thnk it would be better to do it that way rather than your dd pay out all that money like my dd did when she was pregnant   and then go only about twice. I never thought it was a good idea when she was pregnant but we know what they are liked once their minds are made up.I used to encourage my dd to come swimming with me, have a nice massage, buy some new clothes... . anything else... . but nope it had to be the gym... . The peraon who even signed her up knew she was pregnant because I saw the paperwork, but they still took her money signing up her for a year, which annoyed me quite a bit. she could have got referred to antenatal, and relaxation classes with proper guidance for free,but thats my dd for ya. So impulsive and all that money down the drain !

I know she joined up with a friend she no longer is intouch with and maybe there is someone there that she fancied,because weve been down that road before. It could have been because she was so adamant about joining, even though not practial at the time.

Anyway she gave up on it then and then mentioned it again the other day. Dont know who is supposed to have gd though   

[heronbird]

oh no, HELP  

So, two days dd didnt want him, now today, she came round and completely smothered him, poor baby, she changed his outfit 4 times, kept feeding him milk, woke him up, wouldnt let him sleep. I cant bear it, its so sad to watch, Iwent into kitchen and did stuff. Then she came in saying he needs more milk. She wants to feed him all day long. I have him in such a routine, he gets fed every 3 to 5 hours here. She couldnt even dress him properly.

She is talking about coming round every day now, she has asked social services if she can take him out for an hour every day.

She was paranoid about him seeing her face, she kept on saying he needs to know who she is. Its all extreme and excessive.

I got a bit cross with her, and told her this is not going to work like this, i fed him at 3, then she came home at 4.30 said she didnt wake him up but made more milk for him. I explained he wont always be crying because he wants milk. She said she knew and she does not do that anyway.

She hated me telling her, oh no, this is so hard.

Validate her, well I tried. I dont know what to do now.

Will she be here every day all day doing her own thing with him, I dont want to watch.

Now she bought him a new baby gro, she had to put it on him and its the hottest day of the year 33. She kept saying she was going home but she wouldnt go.

She finally just left. She kept saying to me, please let me take him home, Ill make sure no one sees me. Uh. so hard

Any ideas? :'(

[griz]

HB:  This is so hard on you.  Wanting to help your DD and also take care of gs.  Would she sit down with you and plan out a routine?  Even if she came during the day, not all day.  Maybe if you suggested that she needs time to rest also and take care of herself also.  You have to remember to take care of you and set boundaries that allows you to do that.  If not you won't be able to help anyone, not even that darling little baby. 

Maybe when she comes over she could make bottles for the day.  This would help you and make her feel like she is caring for him.  I wish I had more suggestions for you but I am sending you hugs and keeping you in my thoughts   

Griz

[peaceplease]

Heronbird,

Oh my, this so hard for you!  One day she doesn't want him then she is smothering.  That would be tough.  No matter what you do, it will be rough.  In my opinion, it would be better, if you had residency. It sounds like neither of them are stable.  It sounds like the father wants him part time, when it is convenient for him.   Like my sister tells me that my dd is a part time mom.  She has 50/50 custody, but I had gs 50% of her 50%.  And, the same is to be said of my gs paternal grandma.  For the first time ever,  my dd  is not allowing me to have my gs.   She had a major blow up the other night.  First, she wants my gs to stay, I say that it wasn't a good night for me.  I was not feeling good.   then, after I saw her blow up, I told her that my gs could stay.  Then, she said that he was not allowed to stay with us because were f'd up in the head.  I know that her keeping him from me won't last, as she has nobody else.  She is doing it to spite me.  I don't see your dd doing that, but I can see your SIL doing it.  So, I would go for the residency, then you have legal rights.  You  can allow them to take him quite often.  You get to be the final judge when it is better that he is not with them.

It is really hard when grandchildren are involved.    I can empathize with you.  I have no legal rights, with the exception of grandparent visitation.  I don't think that my dd would keep him from me that long, that I would have to resort to that route. 

You say that you work with small children.  Do you have a daycare?

Regarding your dd wanting to take your gs, I would say no.  Tell her that social services may find out, then she will not have a lenient visitation schedule.  that it is for her protection as well, and you would all lose out.  

peaceplease

[pessim-optimist]

Hang in there HB!   

It sounds like dd is shifting to a phase where she wants to "catch up" and assert her momship with her son (so he knows she loves him, and knows who she is)... .

Her behavior is not very helpful or logical, but understandable for a pwBPD given this is her baby... .

Ironically, her son does not need her to 'overdo it' in order to know who she is - (according to the "Primal Wound" book about adopted children, it seems babies KNOW their mother and can recognize her (by smell, hearing her voice and heartbeat, intuitive bonding due to the hormonal surges in her etc.) Do you think it would help calm her down, if you told her that?

[heronbird]

Hi and thank you all for the support, I find it so essential at the moment. I felt terrible last night, just when I thought Id cracked BPD then this strikes and I find it  hard. I tried to talk to my older dd about it last night she just upset me so we fell out a bit, now Im really annoyed with her I wont talk to her about BPDD again, ha Ive said that loads of times.

She works in mental health.

First of all I have to say, dd texted me to say sorry, she said she will do things my way from now on because I have a good system and doing really well with him. She will come over and watch me. Dont forget I wasnt expecting this, because 5 weeks she hasnt come over once so it was a shock.

What can I do about this? she confided in me yesterday that she is addicted to prescription painkillers and she has resorted to getting them on line now, she said if she does not take them she starts shaking, she said she knows they are giving her depression so she needs to stop taking them. She made me promise not to tell her dh. She had also taken diazipam, she was very drowsy really. If I tell ss, Im worried they will tell her I told them. I cant loose my relationship with her.

Pessim, I did tell her that, yes I run daycare, have done it for 17 years now. I tell her I have some children more than the parents but they always know their parents and their home. I keep telling her all the time.

She said the baby was smiling at her dh then he gave baby to her and he was grizzly she took that baby hates her.

Peaceplease

Even if I have residency she can still come over when she likes cant she. I like 50  50 though. So she can do what she likes on her 50%

I have tried to prepare myself for NC one day, I think it will happen. I only have to upset her and that will be it.

I think her dh seems more comfortable with me now, he does not think I am trying to steel the baby anymore. He told my dd that when I registered the baby at the doctors I put my home address down, so stupid, why would I do that.    She asked me how did I know her address, I dont but the surgery have my dd registered dont they.

When sil came to pick baby up yesterday I told him it was quite hard and that she was smothering the baby, he said yes she does that every night now, holds him all night long, she is better now, but he still wants her to go to a mother and baby unit, it cant be too far away because he is thinking of himself there.

Will a mother and baby unit help her? BPD will keep coming back wont it.

[Thursday]

heronbird,

I've read this thread and your last post is of such great concern... . your DD admits she is addicted to RX pain killers which I assume are opiates (such as oxycodone, oxycontin, hydrocodone (not sure if the names are the same in the UK) and you also mention that she took diazepam, (Valium) which is a benzo. These two class of drugs are very, very dangerous to mix.

It is typical for users of the opiates to take more and more and more, greater quantities to get high as time goes on. Mix in the diazepam and it can be easily be fatal.

I hope you will check this out on the internet so that you aren't just taking my word for it. This mixture of drugs, your DD's mental illness, the stress of the baby, it is a recipe for disaster. Once you have read about the combination (alone these are also very addictive and dangerous) I feel like you will know what to do. This is nothing to mess around with.

Keeping you in my thoughts,

Thursday

[heronbird]

Hi,

Thank you, I just got a bit of time to google it, I couldnt find anything serious, only that the side effects can cause dizziness, confusion and other things.

If you find anything else I would appreciate the link so I can research it properly.