Insanity

[Verbena]

My son who is 23 went to visit his sister (DD28 with BPD) two nights ago.  He is home briefly and will be leaving for China soon for two years.  They had about 30 minutes of normal conversation and visiting, and then DD went off on him.  She is still obsessing over our current situation (I discussed her BPD behavior with her best friend because the friend came to me with concerns), and she cannot get me or her father to say what she needs to hear--that I am the one with BPD, that her behavior is completely normal, that her friend is evil, etc... .   We had been having some communication through e-mail and text that was calm and civil after months of mostly NC.  And this this blow up with her brother three days ago. 

My son told her he had said all he could say (they talked for hours last time he was home) and that he was leaving.  He was really offended by some of things she said to him.  He's not usually the target of her rages so he's not used to that.  While he's telling me and his father what happened at DD's house, my son-in-law just walks right into our house.  The last time we saw him was the night of the May 8 ambush when he and DD presented phone records to prove that I had spoken to DD's best friend after DD found out we had communicated. 

Long story short, SIL apologized for his behavior that night but then proceded to tell us how we needed to deal with his wife.  A lot of what he said made no sense or was just plain not true.  Her logic and reasoning is starting to rub off on him, I'm afraid.  He left and the next morning I sent my daughter a simple text (thanked her for giving my number to a woman who I ended up doing a decorating job for, told her I hoped she had a good day) and then a few hours later, I got an e-mail from DD. I think it was written during a fit of rage.  She's a good writer, but this e-mail was poorly spelled, had crazy sentence structure, tons of repetition, and made no sense in lots of places. 

She accused me of all sorts of things, lashed out at her father, made several WAY below -the -belt comments, did a lot of projecting, and so on.  It was absolutely one of the most scathing rants I've ever heard.  We've been talking about how to respond to it the past couple of days but haven't so far.  I wouldn't even know where to start.  Then... . today we get a normal, friendly text from her saying she's sorry she can't come over for lunch with her cousin who is in town this weekend and staying with her.  The cousin plans to eat lunch with us while DD goes to a bridesmaid thing.  We were just dumbfounded at this turn around in behavior.  We didn't respond to the text right away. 

Then SIL calls me and says daughter is upset at not getting a response to her friendly text.  I told him we were still reeling from the e-mail and didn't know how to proceed with her.  He said the e-mail was just her way of telling how she felt, that she's never gotten the chance to say how she felt (really?), and that the text was just her being friendly.  I told him I needed to talk to her dad and that we would be in touch. 

I feel like I'm living in the Twilight Zone.  SIL called again a half hour later but I didn't pick up the phone.  I really don't know if I can take much more of this.  Now my neice is here and getting to see my DD in action.  My husband is not happy about that.  He has never shared any of the craziness with our daughter with his sister.  And he doesn't want to.  His neice lives at home and will tell, I'm sure, what all went on.  Who knows what will happen tomorrow. 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[js friend]

Hi Verbena,



I read your post and something occured to me... . I maybe be wrong... . but I just  I wonder if your SIL sent the email  

Im not saying it couldnt have come from your dd but your SIL seems to know and awful lot and immersed himself into this situation.

Usually when my dd is angry she goes silent on me and she is angry at me for days. which makes me wonder.

Would it be possible to just call your dd just to find out how this bridesmaid thing went and take it from there... .

... . assuming your dd did write the email what i would say is try not to take the scathing comments personally. If you havent replied yet but do intend to, I would validate based on your dd's feelings and not hurtful comments she has made. To her feelings are facts. so to her if she feels that you and your dh have betrayed and are low lives then to her then you are, even though you may have supported her and done so many great things for her. Those would be the facts but to her they wouldnt matter... . so you would just end up cirular arguments. you poinitn out facts, while her facts are based on feelings.No point arguing the facts. Remember with pwBPD evrything is black and white and there are no grey areas.

As you have stated your dd's email was written kind of in a way that it was out of character for your dd. Anger and dysregulation will do that for you.It shows the state of mind they are in. When my dd is angry her writing becomes almost unreadable,lots of mistakes,underlines points and rambles on and on.what I have had to accept is that my dd is mentally ill and sees things in a different way than most people do. You have apologised to your dd for sharing information with her friend how is it possible to move forward at this point.

Your dd is probably feelings angry about by her brother leaving too.Abandonment fears and her desperation to  make him see that she is normal before he leaves for overseas probably triggered her rage.

[Verbena]

I definitely think my daughter wrote the e-mail and do agree that to her feelings are facts.  I also agree that going line by line and answering each accusation will not help.  However, my husband (her father) plans on writing the response, and I'm not sure how much validating he is going to do.  He is fed up and plans on saying some things to her that will make it clear what our boundaries are.  We both know this is not going to stop with her, but we've been on this roller coaster with her for years, and we are both ready to get off of it.  We can only control whether or not we play her games, not what she does. 

I will post an update after he sends the e-mail. 

[Verbena]

Oh, and on a positive note... . my neice came over yesterday and did not bring up any of the craziness or ask any questions about what is going on.  I know she's been told my daughter's version and there's no telling what she thinks about all this, but she acted normal and we acted normal. 

[pessim-optimist]

Hi Verbena,

I feel your frustration, pain and bewilderment... .    

We were in a very similar situation with our d32 (my sd) last year. The e-mail you describe could be an exact description of the several e-mails we received during her period of n/c... . (I think it is just a sign of her inability to think logically and concentrate when she is emotionally dysregulated). However, the emotions in her e-mail are probably very accurate even if they are not based in reality (feelings = facts).

In our situation, d suddenly (we could not figure out why - although there must have been some trigger) turned on her dad and she split him into all bad (she had grown up with him after a divorce), first she was ranting on the phone and when he told her on several occasions that he was willing to talk to her as long as the communication was done with mutual respect (and had to hang up on her several times); she went n/c with sending the occasional e-mail attack.

Our response was to briefly validate her pain and to uphold our boundaries (communication with mutual respect, no attacks) several times. Eventually she called and left a message about a "dire medical emergency" she had (her typical MO for getting the other party to respond), and gradually the communication between us came back to normal.

If I were in your situation, I would weigh if it is important for me to address the e-mail. If not, you can just ignore it and move on, since she was "trying to be friendly". If you feel it is important to address it, I agree with you that it does not make sense arguing with her emotional arguments.

What we have done in the past was: we validated her upset feelings, told her that she has a right to have her opinion, that we respect it. Then we told her that even though we may not always agree with her, we love her and are open to an r/s with mutual respect, no attacks. (It did not immediately work, she kept being upset, but I think that in time she realized we were not going to take the bait, and were going to uphold our boundaries). It may or may not work for you, just an idea... .

Regarding your niece - so sorry she had to witness what has happened and that the cat is out of the bag... . If you keep being your calm and rational selves, your relatives will eventually figure out where the 'problems' are coming from.

[Kate4queen]

The ranting hate filled email followed by the "hi, can you fix 'x' for me? thanks have a nice day'" test or email within a day or two is perfectly normal behavior for my BPD son. It really is like living in the Twilight zone. Well, it is to someone who doesn't have BPD. That's when you realize you're not dealing with someone who's playing the same game as you.

Usually, when my son sends a conciliatory email it's because he a) is vaguely attempting to pretend that the previous rage filled hate fest didn't actually happen or b) he realizes he wants something from us and thinks he has to be nice to soften us up.

Harsh maybe, but unfortunately true.

And there is no point of even bringing up the old email because he'll deny it or explain it away or get angry again.

I've learned to treat all communication with extreme caution.

We flat out told our son that we are not going to reply to hate-filled emails but will reply if he can be polite and we stick to this.

I'm sorry they are ganging up on you.

I've had the same thing with some of my son's 'associates' who think they have to tell us what awful people we are. I don't listen to them anymore either.

I think you need to keep doing what you're doing, and take another step back and see how you can stop these two thinking it's okay to walk all over your feelings and into your house.

Short emails, no emotional discussions no defending yourselves or reacting to the attacks, just to the point, polite and turning the problems back onto them.

hugs.

[Verbena]

I'm taking in all the comments here.  Normally, I do ignore rage texts and e-mails.  I read them and then delete them but don't react to them.  However, this last one was an attack on both of us (it's almost always just me),  and my husband intends to respond.  Our thinking is (and I know we're probably wrong) that since we have been saying the same things for so long now, we need to try something different. We both know it won't change anything, but my husband is completely fed up.

He hasn't written anything yet, but these are the points he plans to make:

*her behavior is at the root of what happened back in March when DD found out I had spoken to her best friend because without the out-of-control behavior, no discussion would have occurred

*it's not about me talking to the friend , it's about her behavior and always has been

*I have apologized for talking to the friend and can't change what happened

*he distanced himself from her drama and chaos years ago (he did) and that ever since then their relationship has been superficial at best; they haven't had a good relationship in years (they haven't) because he has stepped back due to her behavior

* he is done with the back-and-forth and the games

* if she wants to keep this going and then complain that I/we keep bringing up the past, then she needs to understand that the past is the reason it all happened

I am hoping he keeps it fairly brief and doesn't get into the specifics of her e-mail attack. 

[pessim-optimist]

Your husband's feelings are perfectly understandable, and for his own sanity and peace of mind, it seems like he needs to put some words on paper... . And the points that you have written down make sense.

That being said, the underlying implication is that dd is someone who will be able to read those words and understand the logic of it (which she most likely will not be able to due to her emotional issues)... .

Is your husband interested in learning some of the skills (values based boundaries being an important one) to feel like he can protrect himself from your dd's attacks and irrational behaviors?

[Verbena]

Pessi,

My husband knows our daughter has BPD but doesn't like to talk about it.  He'll talk about her behavior, but he won't relate it to BPD.  I don't know if that makes any sense, but that's how it is.  No, I don't think he is interested in values based boundaries or any other technique that I could tell him about--not that I really understnd the techniques myself. He realizes she isn't logical enough to make sense of anything he says, but he is planning on responding and setting some limits on what he will and won't put up with anymore.  So if he does that, isn't he really using values based boundaries anyway?

I'm just so confused.  I read about techniques on here that make sense in theory, but if the pwBPD can't reason and logically look at their behavior, then what difference can it even make anyway?  We just know that we're getting off this roller coaster she has had on us for the better part of fifteen years. 

[vivekananda]

Hi Verbena,

It has been a roller coaster hasn't it? Please be patient with yourself, you are learning how to change some of your thinking and how you would respond and it is a hard journey. Of course values based boundaries takes a while to come to grips with, as does validation. And then you learn that there are deeper levels to these techniques and ultimately we don't stop learning.

One thing I wanted to draw your attention to is: like attracts like. Your SIL and your daughter probably have a lot in common. We are attracted to those who are like us, we feel good in the company of those who understand us. Your SIL may not be BPD, but he may have 

Do you know what   are?

BPD has a definite genetic predisposition. Have you looked at others in the family who have had behaviours that have been difficult?

You cannot change your dh. You cannot change your dd. Be patient on yourself and continue to work on what you can change.

Lots of love to you,

Vivek  

[pessim-optimist]

He realizes she isn't logical enough to make sense of anything he says, but he is planning on responding and setting some limits on what he will and won't put up with anymore.  So if he does that, isn't he really using values based boundaries anyway?

I'm just so confused.  I read about techniques on here that make sense in theory, but if the pwBPD can't reason and logically look at their behavior, then what difference can it even make anyway?  We just know that we're getting off this roller coaster she has had on us for the better part of fifteen years.

Hi Verbena,

Those are good points. Taking care of ourselves, "getting off the roller coaster", and putting some boundaries in place to protect ourselves (however we have to do it) are the important first steps... .

It may take a while to get on with the next steps, but it's ok. We are not obligated to put our lives on hold and sacrifice them in favor of our kids... .

All the best, and keep posting,

PessiO

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Verbena]

Well, he sent the e-mail.  There are a lot of things I would have said that he didn't or I would have said them differently, but it's done.  He let her know that we are done with this (not done with her) and that when she lets this go, it will be over. He put the ball back in her court so to speak. 

Do I think she will understand what he said or get from it what we want her to?  No, I don't.  But if she won't let it go, then we aren't going to have a relationship with her anyway because we aren't going to keep going over it with her. 

My husband did ask me after the e-mail was sent if I was serious about dealing with her differently in the future, assuming that we have a future with her.  I assured him that I am done with trying to make her see, feel, and react differently than she always has.  I told her husband the other night that no good has ever come from that or ever will, and I meant it. 

I want no part of her drama with other people; I don't even want to know about it anymore.  And I don't want drama with her myself.  I had begun detaching myself from her when all of this happened, and if we can get back to some sort of civil relationship, I will be very careful not to let her suck me back in.  She as always insisted that I be involved in activities with her and her friends.  No more.  I want nothing to do with her friends because she always manages to use it against me. 

We'll see if she responds and how. 

[vivekananda]

Powerful words Verbena, you sound strong and determined. Good on you!

I assured him that I am done with trying to make her see, feel, and react differently than she always has.

I think you have come to the crux of the matter. They say to continue to do the same things and expect different results is a definition of insanity. So, what will you do differently? Do you have an idea of what your goals in this are?

When I first joined the boards here, I was slow to realise that I could actually do things differently. Since then I have learnt so much and I believe my relationship with my dd, as difficult as it is, is possible now where it wasn't before.

what do you think Verbena?

Vivek      

[Verbena]

This is my plan:

*Accept the fact that DD is not really interested in anything concerning me b/c she's not. She is too wrapped up in her own drama and trying to feel better about herself.  Do not share anything about myself beyond very simple information so it can't be used against me. 

* Compliment DD more (she thrives on compliments) and tell her I love her more.  If I have any criticism of anything she does, keep it to myself.  Even if she asks what I think, turn it back to her with something like, "How do you feel about it?" 

*Do not get sucked into doing things with her if her friends are present because she manipulates situations and turns it against me. 

*Avoid being around her with her in-laws present whenever possible.  She has involved them in this whole mess and uses them as weapons against us (they're her rock now that we have wronged her, at least they love her, etc.) and being around them now makes me uncomfortable. 

*Stay away from her Facebook. Several months before all this mess happened in late March, I had stopped commenting on any of her numerous posts because I was sick of her being offended by the simplest comment I made and sick of how she used FB to represent a fake closeness between us.   She has also created turmoil over my own posts on my own page which had nothing to do with her.  She gets upset if I don't comment and upset if I do.  After deleting my FB for several months, I have now reinstated it but use it only to post pics and information about my decorating projects.  I tried just using my FB business page for that, but it doesn't work (or at least I couldn't make it work) without a personal page also. 

*Stay away from situations where her enemies are present.  I'm either too friendly to them or not friendly enough, and she thinks I am disloyal to her and gets hysterical.   

*Do not take her bait when she tries to start a conflict with me.  Change the subject, tell her I have to go, tell her I will talk later when she's calmer, walk away, or whatever I need to do. 

*When she screams and cusses at me, tell her we will talk later when she's calmer and then hang up or leave.

*Refuse to keep going over the same ground with her regarding my talking to her friend about her behavior.  She thinks her behavior is just fine, I've apologized, and I'm done with it.  I will not discuss it with her anymore, period. 

Some of these things I was already doing to some degree, and I think she was aware that I was reacting differently.  I may have saved myself some drama initially by, for example, not going to a party when I knew one of her enemies would there or cutting a conversation short when I knew she was itching to start something.  The  consequences were, though, that I saw less and less of her.  That may not be a bad thing.

[pessim-optimist]

Hi Verbena,

It sounds like you are taking a few steps back from all the drama and have a plan going forward.

[js friend]

Verbena, I would say that you have some very good boundries there.

Many of them are the same I have with my own dd18.

[Verbena]

Thank you all for your comments, insight, and support.  If I knew how to properly do the quote boxes, I would. 

My son thought the e-mail his dad sent was just fine.  Maybe I as overly critical of it.  I just felt that he wrote it in a hurry and didn't say some of the things we talked about him saying.  In the end, it probably won't matter.  She will most likely fixate on one or two comments and twist his words anyway.  At least that's our past experience. 

I do feel better knowing we have set some boundaries.  My son reminded me last night that I have to stick to those boundaries long term because DD is not going to change without a miracle.  He shared his thoughts with me about DD's future, especially if children come into the picture.  He is wise for his 23 years and amazes me with his insight. 

[vivekananda]

Good stuff Verbena,

You have some excellent well thought out strategies. Have you had a look at the workshop on boundaries on this site? I'd send you the link but my computer is refusing to work for me to let me do that... . you can find it yourself or I can get it for you next time.

After I had studied the info about boundaries, it caused me to rethink what I wanted and I sorted out what I was doing so it made more sense. It helped put my boundaries in perspective. There is also a book that is highly recommended called: "Boundaries - when to say yes, how to say no to take control of your life" by H. Cloud and J. Townsend

Are you familiar with our other highly valued tool to help us with our relationships with our people with BPD, validation? This is a great video but it goes for 51 mins, so you need to set time aside.

Understanding Validation in Families


Vivek    

[angeldust1]

Just read your original text sent.

  First of all:  It appears to me,  that your sil has some real issues as well.  He sounds    and Way to protective of his very disorder wife.  A BPD, will do just what she did,  go off on you, and then act as though nothing is wrong,  or that a rage didn't happen. To them this is normal.   They have vented and they feel better,  you do not.  Your are hurt,  perplexed,  and are left with a big hole of hurt,  but they cannot understand that,  or be expected to understand that.  They are disorder!   I believe no replying is the absolutely correct way to handle it,  if she or her husband don't think it is appropriate... . so be it.  Her going off on you for nothing was not exactly fun for you... . nor appropriate.

As for your dh,  he will have to understand that sooner or later people will find out about the craziness,  if they don't already know.  It is not his or your fault,  it just the way it is.  No one would blame you if your child had cancer and call it crazy,   would they?

It just what it is,  a disorder,  just like an illness if you will,   it is a cross wiring in the brain,  and you or your husband had nothing to do with it.  God formed her brain as it is,  is it Gods fault?,  I don't think so.  Life is not fair,  and this is something that has to be accepted,  not understood.

If she chooses not to come for lunch,  it is her choice,  not yours.  If she chooses,  and it is a choice,  it is her decision,  not yours. 

Once you learn to put her and her behavior on the back burner,  live your life as it is normal,  and her abnormal behavior is unacceptable,  but she is still loved,  you will be able to deal and handle it  better,  and acceptance will come.  Good luck,  and stay here,  this is the place to be.  

[Kate4queen]

I do feel better knowing we have set some boundaries.  My son reminded me last night that I have to stick to those boundaries long term because DD is not going to change without a miracle.  He shared his thoughts with me about DD's future, especially if children come into the picture.  He is wise for his 23 years and amazes me with his insight. 

My 24 yr old oldest son has given us, (his parents) some great and thoughtful insight into how he sees his 22 yr old brother with BPD. Oldest has mild Aspergers and his brother crucified him throughout his adolescence. He's come out of it with an interesting mind set and that clearness of viewpoint that Aspies sometimes have which for us emotional wrecks is sometimes useful to hear. I am so proud of him as well for not letting younger bro defeat him or break him.

Your boundaries sound excellent. Good for you. I know its hard but it does get easier when you realize you can't change that person, you can only love them and stand back a bit.

[Verbena]

angeldust1,

I have known my SIL for three years and have always thought of him as one of the most common-sense, practical, down-to-earth, non dramatic, calm people I know.  His behavior lately has just appalled us.  Yes, he is way too protective of her and is in deep denial.  Her logic seems to now be his logic, and I never thought that would happen.  My son feels  his brother-in-law needs to take control of the situation and set some boundaries for his wife and insist she get some help.  With all dd's energy being focused on what a victim she is due to my "sick and crazy behavior", I actually think my SIL may be enjoying a respite from her rages at HIM right now.

I never intended to respond to her crazy, ranting e-mail, but my husband insisted that he was going to.  And he did.  So far we've gotten no response. I'm sure she was furious because my husband laid it out for her.  My husband and I both can hardly believe that so many of her friends and acquaintances don't see that something is really wrong with her behavior.  I know a couple of them do, but the vast majority (and she has TONS of friends) seem to be in the dark completely. 

I am slowly coming to grips with her problems and actually am starting to feel a weight lifted from me knowing that I can carry on and not feel the need to "fix" her as I have tried to do in the past.

As far as coming over for lunch is concerned, I never expected her to come in the first place.  In fact, I never invited her.  She had just sent that horrible e-mail two days before, so I was shocked when she texted me that she would come for lunch with her cousin if she didn't already have plans.  It was like I had asked her to come and she was cheerfully and politely telling me why she couldn't. That's why I didn't respond to the text.  I didn't even know what to say given the venom she was spewing 48 hours earlier. 

Kate4queen,

God bless your older son for his wisdom about his younger brother.  I know it is a blessing for me to be able to talk about my daughter's issues with someone who really gets it.  There are really only three of us who truly know what it's been like dealing with DD--myself, my husband, and my son.  No one else has a clue. 

Vivek ,

I haven't done any workshops.  I know I need to and I will eventually.  Thank you for all your input on my posts regarding my DD.  I'm so glad I found this site. 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[vivekananda]

With all dd's energy being focused on what a victim she is due to my "sick and crazy behavior", I actually think my SIL may be enjoying a respite from her rages at HIM right now. 

I think you have it in a nutshell. Your dd in order to explain her behaviour has to find fault with you... . and I bet you haven't always been the logical calm mom you would want to be either. Who is in the face of an onslaught from BPD? ... . especially when you haven't the understanding or resources to deal with it! And your SIL would be feeling relief at not being the focus of her anger. Really when you think about it, it's understandable.

It's a complex situation we find ourselves in.

Here's a link to NEA family connections, a course they offer for families of people with BPD. You might find the info interesting:

Program for Family Members

keep in touch, ok?

cheers,

Vivek    

[FaithfulHope]

Excellent post and awesome comments.  I can soo relate.   My dd21 is so much the same with us.   She will lash out usually at me and then shortly thereafter does a 180 and sends something nice.  I, too, am no longer trying to change her so that she lives a more 'normal' life.  I am learning to accept her for who she is and the choices she makes (as awful as they are) and just LOVE her with boundaries in place.   

Sadly our conversations are very superficial but I keep lines of communication open and it seems to be better this way.   I don't ask about jobs or money or friendships anymore.   She either lies to tell me what I want to hear or tries to drag me into whatever new drama is going on.   

In your original post you talked about her 'enemies'.  I was wondering if you see the same thing I do with my dd... .    my dd tends to have cycling 'friendships'.  She is bestfriends with someone and then shortly thereafter is mortal enemies.  But then at some point later they become friends again.  Over and over it goes.  So I no longer allow her to bring anyone over to our house when she visits.   She is good about it but does still ask... . can I bring so and so with me?   I always say this 'When you are friends with so and so for 6 months, then I will meet them'.   She handles that pretty well usually because she knows her friendships tend to end quick.   

Everyday I am so thankful for finding this site!   

[Verbena]

FaithfulHope,

Yet again another post that I could have written myself!  My daughter goes back and forth with friends.  She loves them, she hates them, she loves them again, she hates them again.  I would not be AT ALL surprised if she ends up being friends again with her now former best friend, the one I shared my concerns with about the BPD behavior--the friend who is now the devil. 

I think it is wise of you to have the 6-month rule for your DD bringing friends over. I don't intend ever again to spend time with my daughter in the presence of her friends.  I did that a lot before because she wanted me there. 

It is sad that your conversations are superficial, but I know that is how it will have to be with my DD here on out.  My goal is to steer clear of drama, and I can only do that if I have limited contact with her.  Of course, she will make an issue out of that, too, but I already know I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.  I choose to do what's best for me. 

[Verbena]

UPDATE:  An Interesting Turn of Events

Last night (the night before my son's college graduation this morning) I received a text from my daughter.  It was actually just a picture--one of the two of us.  I took this to mean she was waving the white flag so I responded by saying it was a good picture and that I would see her at the graduation this morning.  We texted back and forth for awhile about the upcoming trip for the graduation.  Just a very, normal, ordinary conversation.

  Judging from today, you would have never guessed the last 4.5 months had happened.  I'm guessing she got the point that her daddy made in his last e-mail--that he is done with the drama, that I am done with it, and that when she is ready to let go of what happened (me talking to her best friend about her behavior) and let it be over, that it will be over. 

Even though everything felt very normal, I was keenly aware of her behavior today and how nearly everything she said and did played into her BPD--

   making a big deal of the fact that I arrived after they did and texting me three times that I might need help finding them in the auditorium and that she could guide me to the right area (I don't text while driving like she does so I couldn't respond)

   bossing around my son's friend who was taking pictures of us all after the ceremony

   monopolizing the conversation at the restaurant afterward and making it all about her

   telling me that I needed to be sure to attend an upcoming wedding of one of her friends because the friend thinks I am wonderful and admires me so much (I don't plan on attending but just agreed with her for now)

   showing me lots of pictures on her phone of craft projects she is making and selling (I was interested in what she is doing and showed it; when I shared a picture or two of a recent decorating project I did, she had little to say)

   telling me that she, her MIL, and I really need to go to a local painting/pottery place together and make something

   taking a jab at her brother by telling me that she and her husband don't think what he's doing (going to China to teach English for two years) is "realistic."  Then she said that she is afraid they will have a baby during that time (yeah, I'm VERY afraid for her to start a family), and her brother won't be here when she gives birth. 

I was very careful what I said to her today.  I know she was slightly offended at least once by something very minor that I said, but overall things went well.  I prayed that today would go well and it did.  I sense, though, that she is ready to do a complete 180 and go back to the way we were.  I can't ever go back to the way it was because I can't do the roller coaster anymore.  So I'm praying now that I can stay strong with my boundaries. 

[FaithfulHope]

Verbena,

Our dd's are so similar.   Important family events are hard when you have a pwBPD.   Mine has causes scenes any many events when they are events that are not in her honor.   Either that or she finds a way to not show up.   Usually says she has to 'work'.   So when we are all together, I now tread lightly also so that we can have these memories of being a united family.   I try to just keep it in the moment.   I am so glad you had this good day!  Congratulations on your son's graduation!   For so long, my other two children have always been on the back burner... . but no longer.   

My older son, the middle child, is leaving in 18 days for college.   He is the first one going to college.   I have so many emotions about it because at his age was when we had to make our dd move out the first time.  For the sanity and safety of our family, under a therapists guidance we set her up in an apt.  Since then she has been in and out of our home 5 times.   Everytime she moves out I swear I will never let her back in.   But now that he is leaving, I am having such a hard time.   The 4 of us have been such a support to each other through these last horrible years with my dd.   My 2 sons have been through so much esp in the past 4 years.   I will miss him terribly.

Great job at keeping strong with your boundaries.   For me it is what keeps me sane.   

[pessim-optimist]

My older son, the middle child, is leaving in 18 days for college... .    

... . I am having such a hard time.   The 4 of us have been such a support to each other through these last horrible years with my dd.   My 2 sons have been through so much esp in the past 4 years. I will miss him terribly.

Hi FaithfulHope,

Of course you are having a hard time... .    

In addition to the regular happy-sad, the child-leaving-the-nest type miss him, there's the missing of such a close soul in your family plight... . Sending you   


Hi Verbena,

Yes - Congratulations! I'm sure you're proud of your son... .    

Thank you for your update. It does sound like your dd is starting to accept your boundary (it was similar with ours).

Judging from today, you would have never guessed the last 4.5 months had happened.

It does feel awkward, doesn't it? Like they hit a reset button and are on a brand new cycle (except we are planning how to deal with the next repeat... . )   

The good news is: you have some skills to deal with it now, and it gets better with practice (don't worry about not being perfect, we all make mistakes on the way, and there are plenty of opportunities for do-overs).

Even though everything felt very normal, I was keenly aware of her behavior today and how nearly everything she said and did played into her BPD... .

... . I sense, though, that she is ready to do a complete 180 and go back to the way we were.  I can't ever go back to the way it was because I can't do the roller coaster anymore.  So I'm praying now that I can stay strong with my boundaries. 

You have already gotten off the roller coaster... . You are educating yourself, you are learning new skills and so, your 50% of the communication with your dd will be different. You also understand your dd's behaviors better, so it will not be as emotionally taxing on you... .

And yes - you are right being on alert for her probable future repeated testing of that boundary. So, if you think it through ahead of time, you will be better equipped to deal with it when it comes.

  I am happy for you! It went well, enjoy the sunshine of the moment!

[Verbena]

Faithful Hope,

It sounds like we do have similar situations.  How old is your DD?  Mine lived with us until she was 26 except for a couple of months when she moved out and into an apartment with friends.  That was a complete disaster and she came crawling back and was better--for awhile.  I still regret that we allowed her to create so much chaos in our home and were  unwilling to make her leave. 

I can so clearly see now that everything my DD does is to compensate for what's wrong in her head.  It breaks my heart for her but makes me want to stay away from her at the same time--even though yesterday went well--because (as pessim-optimist said) I am already "planning on how to deal with the next repeat."  But still, I am thankful yesterday went smoothly, especially for my son's sake.  He graduated yesterday morning and should touch down in Beijing about four hours from now. 

I felt the same in the days before my son left home for college five years ago.  It sounds like your son was a comfort to you as mine was to me with DD's BPD behavior.  It will probably be a relief for your son to distance himself from your daughter's behavior, but that doesn't mean you won't miss him.  Skype as often as you need to.  It really helps. 

Pessi,

I think I have gotten off the roller coaster, so thanks for saying that.  I know I have a long road in front of me, but I am hoping it will be easier now that I'm closer to just accepting that my child has a mental illness that I can't fix.  I've known that for years, but things have changed for me. I struggle with trying not to worry about what tomorrow will bring but at the same time planning on my responses to potential future situations.  Lots of prayer. 

[FaithfulHope]

Hi Pessi,

You hit the nail on the head... . a close soul in our family's plight.   That is exactly it.   The four of us have been in this together.   I know for me I no longer look at life the same way.   I have definitely pulled away from people socially because I just don't enjoy it as I used to.  I listen to other people talk about what's going on with them and I think to myself 'Big deal, that's all you got?'   I spend each day wondering if my dd is going to be alive or arrested.   So, our little foursome is my strength and for him to leave is tough.  But it is good for him to start to live his own life.   And he won't be too far away, about an hour from home.

And Verbena,

My dd is 21 and not doing very well.   Just won't be responsible.  Never has been her whole entire life.   But I just can't take her back in here.   It never works, but at the same time I am worried sick that she will die.   She has the capability of doing just fine.   She is bright and funny and can be so charming.  But she won't apply herself.  Keeps sponging off of people until they reach their limit.   Then she gets dramatic and plays the victim.   She loves being in arguments with people.   Loves posting nasty things about people on Facebook.   Loves to shock people, I guess for the attention it brings.  I don't think she is working although she tells me she is.   I don't know where she gets the little money she has.   All I know is that I love her  and I am always sick with worry over her but I just cannot live with her chaos anymore.   So, to have this group is priceless for me.   Thank you for the support you all have shown me.

[Verbena]

FaithfulHope,

You daughter is young still.  Maybe the sponging off others and the Facebook antics will pass with time as she sees others around her who are her age behaving differently.  Does she have any solid "normal" friends? My daughter is extremely charming, too, so she's able to fool people.   I am a worrier, too, so I know how you feel.  It does absolutely no good, though.

I guess my daughter is a higher-functioning BPD.  She has a job, a home, does normal things  and appears okay--on the surface.  She actually just called me a few minutes ago, and we had a routine conversation.  I believe this is the first time there has been an actual phone conversation in almost five months.  It was very superficial on my part.  She talked about herself the whole time, never asked anything about me, and managed to give her dad a compliment and a dig at the same time.  I was thinking throughout the entire 20 minutes we were on the phone that my best bet was to keep it very neutral and let it be all about her, so that's what I did.  My goal is to not piss her off, so for this phone call: Mission Accomplished