Bipolar and BPD diagnosis daughter

[Iloveljj]

My daughter is bipolar and BPD narcissist.  She is in treatment with very good doctors and is compliant with her treatments.  She is an MD so understands she must take her meds.  My  daughter blew up at me in May when I asked her why it was so hard for her to talk to me.  We live states apart so phone or email.  She rarely called and never returned my messages or emails.  So, while I had her on the phone I asked why?

She has sent two written letters saying that I had emotionally abandoned her three times in her life, but I don't know what those times are she is referring to, and no one in the family understands it either.  Her husband tells me she imagines things that are not true frequently.   IF I don't admit to being abusive she will not have any contact with me. 

My boundary is not to say I did something to her I did not do, but just say I am sorry she is feeling so badly and I love her.  I have never heard a word since then so I guess that wasn't what she needed from me.

I grieve everyday and it just gets worse not better.  My therapist tells me my boundary is right and the only thing I can say.  I must say my truth, but that means I may never see her again.  I feel like I am spiraling down the drain and will not be able to endure.  I am seeing a Psychiatrist and a psychologist , on lots of drugs and talk therapy every week.  They both say it will feed her BPD to pretend she is a victim of mine.  I feel like the victim with no relief forever.    I think of her hundreds of times a day and worry that she is crying or angry with me.  I just wish she could be content and at ease with her life and me.

It there any hope at the end of my tunnel?  It feels to me that nothing can change, I predict she will never admit her problems or take responsibility for her part.  I know her better than anyone.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

Ilovejj   

There are many moms here that can share your pain and distress. You have done a really good thing validating the valid, her feelings - and not the invalid, the abuse. Doing the right thing is often the hardest. There is a huge grieving process in the loss of our relationship with our grown child that we love.

There are many who care here, and lots of resources to understand your D's internal pain. There is hope. As we learn how to take care of our needs, and you are doing this with all the support resources in your life, things can get better. There is hope in your D's accepting her treatment and being highly functional in her lie. So many of our BPD grown children refuse any kind of treatment - like my DD27. And even if your DD does not change, and only she can choose that - we can only change ourselves - things can get better. There are mom's here that are slowly creating healthier relationships.

Have you read "Overcoming BPD" by Valerie Porr? It is a good resource about BPD focused on families - parents and their children of all ages. The book has a very positive focus on creating better lives for everyone involved.

Others will be here to give you understanding and encouragement. Hang in there. We care.

qcr  

PS. DD stands for dear-daughter.

[LynnieRe]

I can only relate what I know from other family members.  I'm still wrapping my head around my own ":)D" diagnosis.  Validate what is true, don't admit to what isn't.  Stick to facts.  I often find when I approach a "sensitive" subject with my family members with BPD, they get very angry, accuse me of all types of behavior that isn't true, but then they eventually return to the truth.  And the fact that even though they may accuse you, falsely, of various behaviors, they still want and need you in their life.  Stand your ground. 

[Iloveljj]

Thank you for the support.  I am so alone in this grief, everyone else in the family thinks I should just put it out of my mind and I can't. So, thanks again. 

I would love to hear from someone in my situation that had a good result from keeping my boundaries.

[MindfulLove]

I'm not sure it's even possible for a mother to know or meet all of the emotional holding needs of a BPD child. So, they end up feeling abandoned, even though it's not our intention. Her interpretation of these desires as realistic and necessary could explain her (undescribed) feelings of abandonment. I don't know if that helps, but maybe helps that somebody understands?

 

[vivekananda]

Hi Iloveljj   

It is so sad hurtful to love your daughter so much and to be unable to express your love and care. I know. My dd is 32. She has very infrequent contact with me and I have been working on rebuilding my relationship with her since her big breakdown of more than 18mths ago. She lives 30 mins from me and I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen her in that time ... . and that hasn't been easy... . but the experts assure me that this is a hopeful situation when I describe the situation. Most important for me, I now do not have the level of pain and hurt that I hear in your voice. It has been the people here who have given me the best support and guidance. I have learnt much. I am a part of a face to face support group of parents, I am doing a course for 'carers' at the moment. I have spent more than 18 mths learning what I can about BPD and learning what I can do. So, in all this there is hope  . One thing I have learnt is how to hold that pain in my heart and still be happy in my life... . at least most of the time 

qcr gave you the reference for a great book to read. I also recommend it to you. I would like to suggest to you the general parenting book by G & J Lundberg called "I don't have to make everything all better". It is a book about how to validate. See, with validation there are levels of understanding, it is not as simple as it at first seems. While your communication with your dd isn't great at the moment, when/if she does contact you, you would want to be ready, right?

There's is lots I could suggest for you, but that's heaps for the moment. 

Oh, and my dd believes she was subjected to a lifetime of abuse... . she needs a reason to feel the way she does and that is the easiest to come up with. And of course, it's not true.

thinking of you Cheers,

Vivek      

[Iloveljj]

Thank you all so much, I am reading and talking to the doctors, but real people like  you understand my pain in a way no one else can.

[vivekananda]

keep on posting Iloveljj! We are here for you. We are all here for each other. The easiest way to learn is by posting our stories and concerns, asking questions and responding to others. I highly recommend it.

Our journey here is continual and we all learn from each other. Explore the site and check out the resources available to us just here. Read the other threads too.

And let us know how we can help you,

Vivek      

[LynnieRe]

My daughter has a new bipolar diagnosis.  She has borderline issues.  Her father does too.  He has just left our lives again, this time with my blessing.  He met someone a week ago, and has been with her ever since.  Wednesday was the last time he saw our D.  My child attempted suicide in July, they put her on high levels of antidepressants, they made her manic. He has not really reached out to her, and any attempts he has made have been disastrous.   Friday she threatened to kill me at the therapists office, and was taken for my safety out of my home.  We found a family friend who works in mental health willing to take her.  She is since back after her medication levels are dropping, and we are pleasant to each other, but I have my guard up.  As in, I don't sleep.  I can't eat, I'm physically ill because I'm afraid of my child. Long term hospitalization has been brought up to her by her therapist as a way to get her leveled without the stress of me?  However, she wants her home and her room.  So she is here.  I do not engage when attacked, I do the proper things like make dinner and make sure she is calm and taking her antianxiety meds until she sees the therapist on Monday and a new med regime is begun, but I feel very much a prisoner here. 

[six]

Iloveljj

Hello and welcome.  I wanted to share my experience with you of being called an abusive mother. 

When my DSBPD26 was 18 he began telling me and my husband that we had abused him.  According to him we "beat" him about once a week for years.  Every conversation with him involved him hurling at me that I was an abusive mother.  I could not tolerate this as I know myself to have been a loving and non-abusive parent for him and his siblings.  I have practically never lifted a hand to him, and even then this was a light slap when he was a very little child and doing something dangerous.  By the time he was 10, I had decided that hitting didn't work and also felt wrong to me, and I essentially stopped doing it.

After about two  years of hearing that I was abusive, I went to a therapist who explained to me that in his eyes, I had been an abuser.  even though every logical rational view of my parenting would agree that there was no abuse, to him it was true that he had been abused.  that's because he looks at the world differently than other people.   So I went home and said to him "I understand that you were abused  and I  apologize to you for behaving in a way that was abusive to you."  I never agreed that he was beaten once a week bec that is a flat-out lie.  But I took responsibility for the fact that he feels that he was abused and of course there were instances of him being hit that in his mind today feels like abuse.  Also the idea that he was beaten once a week I think is because  the emotional pain he lived with that I did not understand and did not have the skills to address in those days felt to him that he was being beaten.

the end of the story is that he has never used the word abuse with me in the past 5 years.  he got what he needed which was a validation that what he went thru was abusive to him.  he never hurls that word at me. 

if you look at what has happened in our home, nobody rational would call it abuse.  but to my DS who is not rational, it was abuse.  if it comforts him to feel that I acknowledge his interpretation that he was abused, who does this hurt?  I feel like my relationship with him improved when I accepted that he felt he was abused.  it cost me so little to give this to him.  I hope this helps you

[vivekananda]

Hi LynnieRe   

It would feel terrible to be a prisoner in your own home. I think many here have felt that way.

I think it would be a good idea if you started your own thread on that topic. Perhaps you could introduce yourself a little and allow the parents here to welcome and give you their insight based on their own experience. If you need any help, just ask me, ok?

Hi Ilovejj, I wanted to add my 2 bob's worth on 'abuse'. My dd started to accuse me of abusing her when she was encouraged to report it by a social worker, so she could claim a student's allowance ... .with the acknowledgement to me that it wasn't at all true. Now my dd believes it. Over the years she has vacillated from believing it and not. However, she now has a diagnosis of PTSD based upon this allegation. She believes that this abuse is the cause of her mental illness which is not BPD but PTSD. So this abuse is firmly cemented in her head.

Last year I wrote her a sorry letter, apologising. I said "D, I never understood how you could have so much pain. I knew you were sensitive but I failed to understand exactly how that felt for you. I know I must have said and done things that hurt you because I did not properly understand. It was never my intention to cause you pain. I am so sorry. What can I do now to improve our relationship? What can I do to make things better?"

I felt better for having written it. She sent a text saying thank you for the letter. We have met 3 times since then (apart form seeing her at the family Xmas dinner). Two of those meetings were not productive. There is no real improvement in the relationship but there is nothing really bad happening either. We went from n/c to l/c ... .currently I am not initiating contact and neither is she. And that's ok too.

You ask is there any hope at the end of the tunnel? Yes, there is. The hope is gained by focussing on us developing our skills to help us with our relationship with our children and ultimately to learn how to be happy within ourselves. This involves a sort of personal transformation and the skills we focus on here help us on this journey.

I hope this makes sense,

cheers,

Vivek    

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Iloveljj]

My daughter has progressed to stating to her father that she wants no further relationship with me, only me.  Although she does want her children 3 and 6 years old to know me and see me.  I am relieved about that, up till now I was not allowed to even talk to them unless I had her permission.  Since she never returned any of my requests, it became impossible to arrange even a phone call.  I have not been able to see them yet and don't know how to arrange it, but hope she will let my husband or her husband be the intermediary.

I have apologized by letter and validated everything she accused me of ( all untrue), but it did not make any difference to her.  The only way she will correspond is by letter and she must initiate the letter.  I am beyond drained and hurt and feel like a zombie at this point.  My therapist says I have done all I can and this may be how the rest of my life will be with her.  Now, I have to accept that hard truth and live again, but it is very hard to just give up on my beloved first child. I am told it will take time, time heals all, etc.  I don't believe any of those things.

I cling to this saying:

Everything will be all right in the end.

If it is not all right now, it is not the end.

I have it framed in my house and look at it everyday and pray it is true.

[Bonus mom]

Iloveljj,

 

Please stop beating yourself up over this, and let me tell you why:

You can believe me that you will feel better, once you accept wholeheartedly that her problems are not about you, but about her.  This might sound ironic, and even a little bit harsh, but I don't mean it to I promise... .But by wanting to prove to her that you love her, or that you didn't abuse her or that you were a good mom, you have actually made this about yourself as far as she's concerned.  Let me explain:

I write this to you as a child of a BPD mom.  For years I tried to convince her that I was loving of her and supportive of her etc. etc. etc... .But the more I tried, the worse she treated me. I truly believe that because I was trying to prove it to her, she resisted even more. She didn't want proof of my love, she wanted me to admit that I caused her pain and misery.

The moment I stepped away from it and started to take care solely of myself, everything changed.  I came to realize that I didn't need her to validate me, or my worth. I know my value and my worth.  And her opinion of me does not matter. 

As soon as I began to live my life believing that her opinion of me did not matter, everything changed.  It makes having a relationship, no matter how limited it might be, with the person with BPD so much easier when you know the truth of who you are and don't look to them to validate you - they can't do it!  That's the key really, isn't it? They cannot validate us. 

I hope I've explained this clearly enough, because I really do empathize with your situation.  There are some pretty articulate people on the site, offering excellent advice. I hope that you'll find all the help that you need right here amongst friends.

Sincerely,

Bonus mom

[vivekananda]

Hi Ilovejj,

It is devastating to think that the girl we love so much doesn't want us or our love.   We feel so hurt and in such deep pain.   It is incomprehensible. You do have hope though. That your dh (dear husband) is able to talk with your dd means you will be able to learn of how she is, you will have a way of staying in touch.

Your T suggests this is how it just may be from now on. And yes, this is true. Nevertheless you should not spend your life clinging to the hope that it will, that she will change. Instead you will find it is easier and better for you if you take control of your life and set about being the sort of person your dd would want to have as a mother. Obviously the things you have done in the past did not work and the things you are doing now are not working. I would like to invite you to join the rest of us here who are working on being more skilled with building our relationships especially with our people with BPD and more skilled in the practices and techniques that lead us to change.

When I began to learn about validation, I read so much and bit by bit began to see that there is so much more to the concept that I first encountered. Today I would describe a deeper level of validation as being able to identify my own emotional needs and learn how to meet them. Validation has become a practice of mindfulness. It is this illusive concept of mindfulness that underlies all that helps us with our children with BPD. It is in fact, what our children need to learn if they are to recover from BPD.

I would like to encourage you to immerse yourself also in this learning, because with it you can recover the joy that there is in life. Then you would be able to easily read the words that Bonus mom offers you and see the truth in them.

I recently read an article in a book that touched on the subject so sensitive to me - and I think to you too. In it the idea that pwBPD were abused as children was discussed. It said that the most likely explanation is that the person with BPD is genetically predisposed and is hypersensitive to and feels more intensely the normal slights, criticisms and punishments endured by most children growing up. That parents raising an exceptionally difficult child may criticise and punish more frequently and this would generate a tension in family dynamics and is later recalled as abusive.

I am sure you are not that different to me. I did not care for my dd in a way that she needed. She needed my constant validation and instead I tried to tell her what to do. And the boundaries in our house were too loose and she learnt early on how to successfully manipulate me. Now she is 32 and I am learning from my mistakes finally.

On this board here are many wonderful parents who can support you and even guide you. We are here for you... .and here's one reason why: it is through discussing our own situations and difficulties that we all learn from each other. And, as you will see in time, this has positive effects on our relationships with our children and on ourselves too.

Please tell me what you think of this idea Ilovejj,

Vivek    

[Winifred]

My heart goes out to you. BPD, the disorder, will destroy the caretakers if we let it. Less than two months ago we were certain we would never hear from our daughter and granddaughter again. The day after she hung up on us, I lived a full day in a flat world. I'd never experienced such despair in my life. Gradually over the next week I came out of it, but I only got back to the new normal, which was low-level depression, lack of energy, and a general disinterest in life. Then out of the blue she phoned us as if nothing had happened. Last week she obtained a protection order against her abusive boyfriend, and yesterday we had lunch with her and the baby. Now I'm at pre-new normal, full of energy and hope. This is the whiplash effect of BPD. All you can do is the right thing. In our case, in recent years, we've taken her to court over physical abuse of my husband and opened four CPS investigations into the welfare of our granddaughter. Every action has gotten her attention and improved our relationship with her, despite our worst fears that she would never contact us again. Hold strong against your daughter's efforts to make you agree to an untruth. Continue with therapy and meds. Make a life for yourself and your husband; live as if your daughter is living on the other side of the world and you know that you won't see her for a few years. You cannot control her behavior, only yours. I pray that one day soon you'll get a call from your daughter as if nothing has happened. Stay strong for yourself and for her. She needs you, the authentic you, not the you she has constructed. Thinking about you, Winifred

[qcarolr]

BPD, the disorder, will destroy the caretakers if we let it... .

This is the whiplash effect of BPD... .

All you can do is the right thing. In our case, in recent years, we've taken her to court over physical abuse of my husband and opened four CPS investigations into the welfare of our granddaughter. Every action has gotten her attention and improved our relationship with her, despite our worst fears that she would never contact us again. Hold strong against your daughter's efforts to make you agree to an untruth. Continue with therapy and meds. Make a life for yourself and your husband; live as if your daughter is living on the other side of the world and you know that you won't see her for a few years. You cannot control her behavior, only yours. I pray that one day soon you'll get a call from your daughter as if nothing has happened. Stay strong for yourself and for her. She needs you, the authentic you, not the you she has constructed.

These statements are so helpful for me today.

qcr