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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Don't know where I stand with him  (Read 495 times)
Littleopener
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 73


« on: August 04, 2013, 07:10:51 AM »

Hi :-)

So my (ex?) SO is playing his BPD games with me and I'm very very confused.

Basically, we haven't seen each other since April (not through lack of trying on my part- he just always has an excuse, lies to get out of it or just ignores my requests) because I said something that made him "lose his trust" in me - Before I knew his condition (though I should have seen warning signs- abandonment issues, trust issues, self esteem issues, idealization, mirroring, trying to impress me), I asked whether he actually wanted to be in a relationship (because he was being so distant) and if he just wanted me for sex then I would walk away (I realise not the best thing to say but I didn't know about BPD then and I believe in honesty). He just raged at me and told me he couldn't trust me any more, started ignoring me or just talking in one word sentences to me. If I tried to apologise or explain myself, he'd twist the words and I have NEVER said one bad thing about him. I've always reassured him that I love him, but he started belittling my feelings and telling me that I had a problem.

So anyways, I have no idea where we are now in terms of our relationship. If I compliment him, he says I'm being "inappropriate", if I try to tell him ill always be there for him,  he says I'm being "dramatic", he says everything that is wrong in our relationship is my fault and my fault only and we're not close anymore and I should "deal with that or stop talking to me". But he WILL NOT say the words to officially break up. It's like he's trying to push me into it, or put words into my mouth.

If I ask him "is that what you want? Me to stop talking to you?" Which I have done a few times, he will not reply. If I ask him if he wants me to stop asking him to meet up, he won't reply.

When I even suggest he is throwing me away he gets so defensive.

It's hell because I can't get closure. He clearly doesn't want to see me, or really talk to me. But when I try to gauge whether he wants to be with me, he clams up, like he doesn't want to end it at all but he's just trying to drive me away for some reason.

Should I just try to ask him outright? I want to stick around and be there for him, even though he hurts me, but if he doesn't want me to, I don't want to be clinging on, I would want to move on and try to get over this. But I can't move on with this hanging over me.
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Scout99
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 298



« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2013, 08:06:37 AM »

Excerpt
Should I just try to ask him outright? I want to stick around and be there for him, even though he hurts me, but if he doesn't want me to, I don't want to be clinging on, I would want to move on and try to get over this. But I can't move on with this hanging over me.

Hi Littleopener!

I am sorry to hear about the turmoil you are going through and can so relate to the feeling of getting stuck yearning for closure, and of course mostly some confirmation of being meaningful to this guy and signs of love not to say the least... .

It seems so many of us find ourselves at one time or another in that particular place where we also loose all focus on ourselves and sort of get into the mode of just being, existing and living for them... . And that is a truly bad place to get stuck in... .

The sad truth is that most of it all is not about us or even the small crumbs or left overs from what once seemed like such a vivid and promising relationship that we tend to get ourselves so attached to... . But instead it is all about them and their inner turmoils and needs... .

The truth is you don't really need closure from him or from anyone really to be able to detach or move on, even though it sounds like something impossible. In all likelihood he will not either be able to provide you with anything that to you will feel like closure anyway, because he is probably at a place where he can't even sort out his own thoughts let alone feelings... .

Intimacy and trust are at the core of their inadequacy and fear of abandonment and separation at the core of their being. And gaining understanding of those things in them are probably the closest thing to a closure you will be able to get... .

Actions also usually speak louder than words, and when a ow BPD starts to act the way your bf is now, it usually means that the idealization face is over for them and devaluation and discard has taken it's place... . Usually not because that is really what they necessarily want, but mostly because that is the pattern they have taught themselves to live by. And at the same time separation anxiety prevents many of them from acting on it, unless something else or someone else have entered the scene that makes it possible for them to unplug and plug into another person who awakens their idealization behavior and for the moment "makes them feel good"

It is time for you to start shifting the focus back to you that of course feels weird and hard when so much time has been invested in him and making him feel good about himself so he can be good to you... . And start asking yourself these tough questions... .

What do you really want, if he now is the way he is and chooses to act the way he has since April?

In a way, and I know this may sound difficult to hear, you are in a pretty good place right now, where it at least seems he has not yet started to see or look for another source to idealize... . To end the relationship can therefore also be your decision, when he perhaps can't manage to say the words... .

Painful yes, but not as painful as finding out being replaced... .

Important is also to ask yourself what price you are willing to pay to try to "salvage" the relationship? He is who he is, and has the problems with relationships that he has. And it is him not you who has problems with trust... .

If saving it is what you in your heart wants, you will need to engage and dare to face him with what you want and also to stop walking on eggshells and be sensitive to his every need. If it is going to work you also have to not only be allowed but also to choose to engage and step up for your boundaries and your needs win or loose so to speak. Then he can not be allowed to make all the rules. Are you up for that? And in asking so, also up for the consequence of him maybe choosing not to continue the relationship?

The hardest part of being where you are now, and I speak from my own experience, is that when I was in your shoes, I was so afraid of loosing him, that I froze and didn't dare to stand my ground. And got totally stuck in eggshell land... . And ended up loosing him anyway... . Today I have worked hard on myself, therapy, learning, gotten to know myself in a way I never did before. But still being in yet another r/s with a man w BPD, I still find it hard sometimes to maintain myself grounded when things get shaky... . So like so many others here, I know how you feel!

Yet the only way we can stop ourselves from clinging on to a sinking ship is to let go of it... . Or wait for it to let go of us... . Or start fighting for what we need within or without the r/s, and regardless of whether it will survive it or not... .

I know much of this is not what you might want to hear right now. But keep venting and keep posting and reading what other people write and have experienced. It is the best help there is!

And start turning the perspective over to you too, which is the only way to get out of being stuck... .

In that I wish you the very best there is, because you are worth som much more than this!

Scout99
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Littleopener
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Posts: 73


« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2013, 04:34:39 PM »

How do you do it? How do you stand your ground when you know you're going to upset the person you love?
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Scout99
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« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2013, 07:09:31 PM »

It takes a bit of time to learn... .

The thing is it is not all about them and their disorder... . It is also a lot about us and the reasons why we tend to think just the way you think right now too, that is feeling fearful to hurt them tot the point where we become silenced shells of ourselves... .

If we turn the perspective just a little and look at your guy... . he constantly stands his ground and says and behaves any way he wants towards you, and doesn't think twice about whether or not it hurts you... .

I am not saying going to the mattresses is what you should do, and pick fights and stuff... . Not at all! What I am saying, is that you need to start doing things that are good for you and important to you, since you can not do or say anything that will change him... . That's the thing with us people we can only change ourselves, and that goes for your bf too... . BPD or not so to speak... . We do however affect each other, so if you change you, maybe he will choose to follow... . ?

But regardless of that, you write that you feel like you are in (an emotional) "h*ll" right now, where you don't get any closure and not even any clear sign of whether or not the two of you are having a relationship or not... . And that is not a good place for you to be in... . regardless of where he wants to be, it is not a good place for you!

So the first step towards standing your ground would be to shift focus from him that makes you ask questions like; What does he want, does he love me or not, does he want me or not, how can I be or behave so he will want me/take me back?

And instead turn focus on you and ask yourself:

What do I want? What is ok or not for me when it comes to how people treat me? How do I want a relationship to be, for me to feel comfortable, happy and with a peace of mind? Is this r/s giving me what I want or does it not? What are my boundaries? (That is what limits do I have for myself that he nor anybody else is allowed to step all over, without it affecting my wellbeing. Limits that are personal, not necessarily things you need to share with your SO, but boundaries that if they are broken or start to become threatened, must lead to you taking actions to protect you from getting yourself hurt by other peoples actions... . ).

The thing is, they hurt us with their seemingly thoughtless behaviors, but we also to an extent allow them to... . Usually due to how we were brought up and what we learned or didn't learn about what love and relationships should look like... . You will find many posts here about the stuff people here figure out about themselves once they start shifting the focus from them to ourselves... . There is a lot of hope in that too... .

The second step is to start living and doing things that are important to you, whether or not it involves him... . It feels awkward at first, but important, so that you can easier begin to view your situations with him without being overly enmeshed in him and his situations and his problems... . To create a healthy distance, really. If you want to help him, you need to be able to lead by example, not by asking him to change... . And leave it to him to decide if he will choose to follow, (or not).

Bottom line is that you don't change him by trying to say and do things that don't upset him or disturb him, in short by diminishing you! Lost you, who feels like you have been thrown into an endless purgatory, does not help matters at all... .

The truth is you may not be able to change him at all... . It is up to him... . But you can change you, and by changing you, at least the chance is that he might choose to want to follow... .

That is the big picture... . on the smaller scale or in the moments where usually the familiar eggshells start to emerge... . How do I stand my ground without upsetting the person you love?

By reading on this goldmine of a site for instance... . Learn about the disorder. What it is about, how it operates. Read what other members give witness of and learn from their experiences. There is a lot to be found both on the staying board, and the undecided board, and the board advisors have a lot to give you and want to help.

Learn tools to communicate without pushing unnecessary buttons or triggers, and still be able to say what you want. Validation techniques like SET or DEARMAN are helpful once you start to master them... .

And tools that help you create rules for yourself, like when to engage and when to walk away from a potential fight or what to do when your boundaries are being violated and so on... .

Tools are not miracle workers, but they help you not to loose control and remain centered in you and focused even in a heated or emotional situation.

But also a good way to remind you not to loos yourself and be able to ask yourself at all times; what do I want, need and feel is the right thing for me!

I understand this may feel not even a little bit overwhelming, but a lot... . I dare say, that most if not everybody here has at one point or another been where you are right now. So you are not alone! And people here want to help and share with you about their experiences and solutions to their situations. Make use of that! And remember above all that You are important too in this relationship, not just him!

Best wishes

scout99

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Validation78
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: divorced
Posts: 1398



« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2013, 06:52:13 AM »

Hi Little!

I second the advice that Scout has given you here.

The more you chase, the harder he'll push (you away).

The best thing you can do is go out and live your life.  He needs to learn how to self soothe, you can't do it for him.

Take care of yourself. Reach out to friends and family, those who love you and can help you through a tough time.

Best wishes,

Val78
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