He walks on eggshells around me?

[Saffron2]

I have been trying to back off for a few weeks now, looking to not only keep the peace, but to give myself some space (without gaslighting, lies, or twisted perceptions of things) to think clearly.  Despite that, a little discussion came up, and I'll admit that I did get sucked in and engaged for a minute there, but anyway, he told me that this is so hard for him because he feels like he has to walk on eggshells around me. 

I was speechless for a moment - I could not believe that he felt that, much less said it to me. No one has to tip toe around me -  I am laid-back, reasonable, very logical, and don't have mood swings. I do have a temper, but it takes a whole lot to get me there.

After the shock subsided, I started thinking, and I think I can see our pattern.  He does stupid, reckless, hurtful things, then he comes home tip toeing or "walking on eggshells", basically waiting to see if I found out what he did and want to make an issue of it.  Whenever I call him on his crap, he gives me some b.s. excuse or starts with the gaslighting, and I get angry.  Usually after that, the fight is on.

After all that he has done, and is still doing, it p*sses me off to no end that he has somehow turned himself into the victim once again.  Anything is better than taking accountability for his repulsive behavior I guess.

Has anyone heard this from their SO before? If so, how did you respond?  I thought that walking on eggshells referred to navigating a minefield where the other person would go off for their bad mood or for no reason at all - that is what it actually is, isn't it?

[Edelweiss]

Yes, I have had the exact same thing said to me. It is indeed ludicrous. I haven't known how to respond, so I haven't directly responded to that statement. I have remained silent, while she continues on the full rant. At the end, I try to acknowledge her feelings and apologize for whatever I feel I honestly can. Then I leave the rest alone. I know it probably bothers her, but things like that are simply full-blown projections of her own behaviors onto me. Like you, I am the last person anyone needs to be worried about "walking on eggshells" around.

You have the correct idea of what the phrase actually means. I think in their world of reaching and grabbing for anything they can use to keep themselves the victims instead of the abusers (that they actually are), they become very adept at twisting the meaning into whatever they need it to be, so they feel it matches their situation. So, "walking on eggshells" is transformed into "you disagreed on something" or "you were upset by something" (even though your display of disagreement or disappointment was presented in a mature manner, well within normal, acceptable ranges, and came about due to something that anyone would have been upset or disagreeable about).

[O.Hi]

Sounds pretty familiar to me, too. I'm really laid back person. Very easy going. I almost never have conflict in life with anyone other than my partner. Is there something about a laid back personality that made us attracted to people with BPD? Is it the other way around?

My girlfriend started saying she felt like she was "walking on eggshells" after we had a few drawn out fights (5+ hours) that ended with me saying something like "I can't keep fighting like this. We have to break up". After saying that it was like a switch was flipped. She dropped the offensive and actually apologized for a few things. Said we had to stay together. Since then, those mini breakups have been a constant source of additional fights.

To her, "walking on eggshells" means that she has to be careful not to get upset with me or I will break up with her. She said in couples counseling multiple times that she feels like I expect her to be a "stepford wife". By that she means showing no emotion, being subservient to a man and being "perfect". I honestly don't think I expect anything like that. I just want the vicious fights over seemingly small issues, naming calling, throwing objects, etc. to end.

To me, "walking on eggshells" mean always being anxious that saying or doing the "wrong" thing will ignite her temper. Once her temper is triggered, it leads to long, circular fights where she blames most or all of the problems in our relationship on me.

[Validation78]

Hi Saffron!

Yes, I heard this many times, and yes, your definition is correct. One thing we have to bear in mind when dealing with pwBPD is that in their minds, feelings=facts. So they may feel like they are walking on eggshells around us even though that feeling may be derived from something that is not quite factual. That doesn't negate their feelings. That's when we, the emotional leaders in the relationship, have to use the appropriate tool to address our loved one's feelings. In this case, it would be validation. For example, (a very simplistic one)

Him: I feel like I have to walk on egg shells around you.

You: Oh honey, if you feel that way, it's no wonder you're upset. Can you tell me more about why you feel this way?

Staying silent when someone expresses their feelings, however unsubstantiated, isn't giving them what they need, which is to know that you hear them, and understand their feelings. It takes empathy and validation to get them to talk about what the real problem is. Sometimes there's even a nugget of truth in what they say, and we have to acknowledge our part too.

Hope this helps a bit!

Best Wishes,

Val78

[Edelweiss]

SET and most of the other tools for BPD don't work much of the time in my situation, especially when she has already totally gone into rage mode (which she can do rather rapidly all by herself). I have unfortunately concluded (and it has proven effective for me) that silence during the rant is generally better. If I try to step in too early, she gets more upset. She has to get some things out (even the ridiculous stuff based on virtually zero reality). She views anything I say in those moments as patronizing. Just recently, in fact, I had said something as nice a possible to show empathy. She blew up over it, and when I told her I was sorry to have upset her, that I was just trying to show empathy, she said that it wasn't showing empathy, it was patronizing her. So, I asked very calmly and nicely, "How should I show empathy?" She thought for a moment and replied, "I don't know."

Did it get her thinking? Sure. I have no doubt that it did. Will it help her to not view everything with suspicion? Very doubtful. We've been doing this dance a long time. And I've gotten pretty good at my side of the dance. But until she begins to work on her stuff and tries to whittle away on some of these difficult, relationship battering traits, there will be no real peace.

So, I must disagree. Sometimes silence is necessary. Sometimes "no-win" situation literally means "no-win". At those times, absolutely nothing will help, and anything said will be rejected, twisted, and cause the rage to go on longer. Once it's out and I can tell she is calming down a bit? Sure. Saying those kinds of things might help then. So, I do. And it helps in that moment. Doesn't help long-term, though. That's still going to be on her--owning her stuff and seriously making strides to learn and consistently apply better life skills.

[Validation78]

Hi Edelweiss!

When we talk about using communication tools, we are referring to times when our loved one is not enraged. Once they get to the point where a rage begins, you are absolutely correct, there is no room for reason. The only tool at that point is setting a boundary, which is basically not sticking around to be raged at. When one rages against another, it is abusive, and will lead to no good. The best thing to do is to leave the room or leave the house saying simply, I will be back in 1 hour (or so) when things calm down. There is no need for further discussion until then. If we stick around for abuse, we are saying it's alright. We have choices to engage or not, and we who have been raged at all know, they cannot hear you. We actually are contributing to the mania by sticking around. pwBPD do not know how to self soothe, and leaving them to do so is for their benefit. I know what you're thinking. She won't like it. That's right, she won't, especially if you've not imposed that boundary before. That's not a reason for us to subject ourselves to unacceptable behavior. Later, you can talk, and use the other tools, and hopefully resolve some issues when both of you can be calm!

For the record, I was scared to death the first time I did this. I mean shaking. I did it anyway, and after a few times, he knew what to expect, and the rages didn't stop, but they did become less frequent.

Best Wishes,

Val78

   

[Edelweiss]

Absolutely, I've done the walk thing plenty of times, too. However, I feel I must be careful of when I choose to "take a walk" for an hour. If I were to do that too often, I fear that it may be something that could possibly be used against me in a potential future custody battle--even though I am still quite certain of how that would eventually turn out (in my favor), but still, I would like to minimize her ammunition in that eventuality. So, while I do employ that important technique, I don't want to overuse it, either.

Anyway, I certainly appreciate the reminders. All these tools are important and can often be helpful. Though, none of them can really improve things all that much long-term (if at all) until the pwBPD starts working on behaviors from his/her end. The next shoe will drop, and the next, and the next. Hey, maybe I've just got an especially tough case. Dunno. But, there doesn't seem to be a formula that works all the time. That's for sure.

[Saffron2]

Not that I'm happy that any of you are dealing with this crap, but I'm kind of relieved not to be alone.   

Him: I feel like I have to walk on egg shells around you.

You: Oh honey, if you feel that way, it's no wonder you're upset. Can you tell me more about why you feel this way?

This sounds great... . doing it might be a little harder - seems like it would take an awful lot of control to say something like this and sound even remotely sincere.

How this whole thing came up was the fact that he had carried on with his mistress in a very public and humiliating way. This goes against what we'd talked about previously, so I was angry.  After talking to him and getting nothing but lies and b.s. excuses, I got even angrier. He then decided to tell me that he felt like he was walking on eggshells around me, never knowing when I would explode. 

Given the circumstances, I'd have to have the patience of a saint or be on an IV drip of Xanax to validate him and ask him to tell me more about how he's feeling. 

Is this what everyone else here is doing in order to keep the peace?  If so, I'm impressed with all of you who have mastered this in order to better your relationship.

[123Phoebe]

Is this what everyone else here is doing in order to keep the peace?  If so, I'm impressed with all of you who have mastered this in order to better your relationship.

It depends on what's being said, their particular reason for having to 'walk on eggshells'.  We don't validate the invalid, meaning b.s. nonsense; boundaries are used instead.

Validating is a form of empathizing.  If we can really imagine how they might feel about something, we can validate it; validate the feeling/emotion, even if we don't necessarily agree with it, we can imagine what it might feel like, right?

pwBPD can be mighty intuitive to our own b.s. and it could start a battle of sorts.  If it does, we can validate that also;  "I can see this is upsetting you and might feel all off?  I'm trying a new way of communicating on for size and I'm a little clunky at it.  I want to better understand your ideas about _____.  Can you help me understand this better?"

[Saffron2]

Okay, I see where you are coming from.  I think I misunderstood the validating part.

Is there any way you can explain the boundary part? I get that blowing up wasn't helpful at all, so if this was you in the example I gave and your husband started in with the lying and the b.s., what would you have done?

[123Phoebe]

It depends on what your boundary is and what it means to you.  He carried on with his mistress in a very public and humiliating way.  It obviously bothers you.  How much does it bother you?  Are there consequences (actions, not words) he faces for carrying on the way he has?  Other than blowing up at him, which he turns around on you, what kind of 'penalty' is there for busting through your boundary?

Boundaries are ours, they're our limits.   

[wishfulthinking]

Get this... . my uBPDh likened me to an abusive spouse. Because he gets hurt over and over and I keep doing it and then apologizing! Lol! I thought... . you a$$, you cornered me naked in the shower one night to scream at me for 2 hours during a rage and I'M abusive? Wow

[Saffron2]

Get this... . my uBPDh likened me to an abusive spouse. Because he gets hurt over and over and I keep doing it and then apologizing! Lol! I thought... . you a$$, you cornered me naked in the shower one night to scream at me for 2 hours during a rage and I'M abusive? Wow

I don't know about you, but the crazy part is that I would actually sit there and think about this, wondering if there's any validity to what he was saying.  Being around a disordered partner really has far reaching effects! 

It obviously bothers you.  How much does it bother you?  Are there consequences (actions, not words) he faces for carrying on the way he has?  Other than blowing up at him, which he turns around on you, what kind of 'penalty' is there for busting through your boundary?

No, I can't say there have been any real consequences for this behavior.  All I had been doing was talking, trying hard to explain how hurtful the behavior was, which I now know was a total waste of time - that only makes sense with people who can empathize... . I have no idea of what an acceptable penalty for a grown man would be. A few weeks back, I stopped actively participating in the marriage (no sex, cooking, unnecessary conversation ect), telling him that I refused to participate in a marriage that included more than two people. Was that the boundary?

[wishfulthinking]

I'll be the first to admit I've made mistakes, but he's made many more and won't apologize for any of them. He did once... . 3 hours later he turned it on me about how I was overly sensitive and he's not wrong. Ugh. Whatever. I'm getting to the point where I don't care. My heart is broken right now, tho

[123Phoebe]

I have no idea of what an acceptable penalty for a grown man would be. A few weeks back, I stopped actively participating in the marriage (no sex, cooking, unnecessary conversation ect), telling him that I refused to participate in a marriage that included more than two people. Was that the boundary?

Do you feel better about it?  :)oes this arrangement make you feel like you took part of yourself back?  Would you imagine this feels to him like a consequence or a relief?  

[Saffron2]

I'll be the first to admit I've made mistakes, but he's made many more and won't apologize for any of them. He did once... . 3 hours later he turned it on me about how I was overly sensitive and he's not wrong. Ugh. Whatever. I'm getting to the point where I don't care. My heart is broken right now, tho

You're in good company here.  I understand. 

Do you feel better about it?  Does this arrangement make you feel like you took part of yourself back?  Would you imagine this feels to him like a consequence or a relief?

In a way I feel better because I, in a sense, feel like I have somewhat taken control of the situation (the part I can control anyway).  At first this probably felt like a relief because it got quiet, but there's something shifting now - I think he's beginning to worry that he will lose me... . I got a phone call from him today and he was being very, very nice, saying things like, "I know I haven't done right by you", "I want my family back together", "I'm going to do better".  I'm trying to treat this as words only because that's all they are.  I can not get sucked back into this.

[123Phoebe]

In a way I feel better because I, in a sense, feel like I have somewhat taken control of the situation (the part I can control anyway).  At first this probably felt like a relief because it got quiet, but there's something shifting now - I think he's beginning to worry that he will lose me... . I got a phone call from him today and he was being very, very nice, saying things like, "I know I haven't done right by you", "I want my family back together", "I'm going to do better".  I'm trying to treat this as words only because that's all they are.  I can not get sucked back into this.

Then stick to your boundary

Stick to it until you feel it down to your toes that he's taking the necessary steps to walk his talk.

When we get comfy with our newfound self-confidence, the harder decisions become even easier.

[Saffron2]

Then stick to your boundary

Stick to it until you feel it down to your toes that he's taking the necessary steps to walk his talk.

Have you found that these consequences actually get them to change their behavior?  I'm thinking that mine might "behave" long enough to suck me back in, then go right back to his normal behavior... . Maybe I'm thinking too much and should just enjoy his niceness while it lasts.

Thanks for your help. 

[123Phoebe]

Have you found that these consequences actually get them to change their behavior?  

It's anybody's guess, each person and relationship dynamic is different along with the circumstances blah blah... .

We don't enact boundaries to punish another person; boundaries are to protect ourselves.  But, unless they feel the natural consequences of their behavior, not much will change.

What I have found, is that when I got fed up and was willing to walk away from the relationship as a whole, gone, outta here... . my guy stepped up.  I hate that it's gotten to that point, I am not one for ultimatums and drama, therefore, I meant it.  I would rather walk away with my head held high, honoring myself and what's important to me, than put up with his twisted b.s.

We're not married, we don't live together, for clarification; it's easier for me to walk.

When he knows that something is super important to me, he steps up... so far.  It's very slow going as I have intimacy issues also.

[georgew]

Sounds pretty familiar to me, too. I'm really laid back person. Very easy going. I almost never have conflict in life with anyone other than my partner. Is there something about a laid back personality that made us attracted to people with BPD? Is it the other way around?

I've been wondering the same thing, and I recently came across a book which I think is right on target with some things, but is also gratuitously gendered.  Still, worth skimming, "No More Mr Nice Guys".  It talks about how we nice guys[sic] (I think I'm one) among other things, never heard at the right time in our lives that we were ok just as we were.  When I read that I almost cried, so I think it fits me.  Anyway some of the predictable consequences are being needy for external validation for our self esteem, which predictably usually leads to people pleasing as a strategy.

I had been fighting for a long time to develop solid self esteem, outside of any relationship, and was doing better than I ever had.  Then I met uB/NPDgf and her idealization of me swept me off my feet, and unfortunately I also stopped doing the things which were good for my self esteem, aside from being with her.  When the idealization period was over I was sunk.

A part of me sort-of has this feeling, that if I had a decent support system and reliable self esteem which did not depend on her, that I could laugh off the behaviors which now paralyze and frighten me and set healthy boundaries.  I'm in CoDA in part to work with the "higher power" spiritual source of self esteem (and more), but I notice I don't do my work as seriously as I could be doing it for two reasons:

1. I am afraid that if I succeed in taking care of my self and getting stronger, that I'll set boundaries and have to deal with horrible horrible unbearable behaviors from my partner

2. If I get strong enough, I might stop playing the victim myself (I am clearly NOT any sort of victim in her eyes!  but I am somewhat attached to being a victim of her PD), and that scares me too

[O.Hi]

... . being needy for external validation for our self esteem, which predictably usually leads to people pleasing as a strategy.

... . her idealization of me swept me off my feet, and unfortunately I also stopped doing the things which were good for my self esteem, aside from being with her.  When the idealization period was over I was sunk.

Yeah, I think those are the factors that got me into the FOG, too.

When I first starting reading up on BPD, I started waking up the outlandish behavior that I was accepting as normal. I was blown away by how abusive she was/is. Now I'm trying to figure out my side of the equation.

It has taken a year of therapy on my own to build up my confidence. I know that when she is disregulated she will say untrue things about my character. No one else in my life has ever felt like they are "walking on eggshells around me". It doesn't even make sense to claim that controlling your temper over small issues is "walking on eggshells".

The realization that she often isn't being rational has made a big difference. When she tells me how wonderful I am, I take it with a grain of salt. I'm good, but not the greatest of all time. When she tells me how terrible I am, I mostly disregard what she says. I have flaws, but I'm kind and caring.

I'm getting more effective at managing her emotions. I don't know how to stay in a situation like this, though. How do you feel intimate with someone who you have to keep so many important thoughts and motives hidden from?

[Edelweiss]

It doesn't even make sense to claim that controlling your temper over small issues is "walking on eggshells".

I loved this. Right on!

[PhoenixRising15]

Thank you for this enlightening post.  THIS is my problem.  I've seen it.  I've seen my ex's anxiety. 

It started after our first blow up and her perceived "abandonment".  She was always walking on eggshells with me, and I knew it.  I would press her for it, and she gaslighted me the whole time.  I think she was so afraid the whole time, I actually feel bad for her.  And I think she was afraid that I tried to help soothe her anxiety.  The more I did that, the more vulnerable she became, and then she'd do little self-sabotaging things to try to get me to abandon her.  I actually had the sense to call her on it (in an affirming supportive way). 

Wow... . this was truly an enlightening post.  So much insight for me.  I thought I was the only one.  Thank you.  Thank you.  Thank you

[blurry]

Yes Saffron, I know exactly what you mean, I would call mine out on her bizarre behavior, and it always leads to her saying she has to walk on eggshells around me. My reply would usually be "well, if you feel that way maybe you should look on the inside and see if your projecting on me, because if you hadn't abruptly dumped me 6 times, been promiscuous during those brief breakups, maybe these little things wouldn't bother me nearly as much". Then usually ill get a "f you" and shell end things again as usual. But yes I definitely have heard her say that many times. Meanwhile I know its me walking on eggshells till my patience runs out and call her out on her selfish behavior.