HURT. He is blaming all of his problems on our relationship.

[Newkate]

It boggles my mind, how their minds work... . or don't work... . or whatever the f*** it is they are doing. SORRY, this may be long. But its really really important to me.

We had a beautiful relationship. Loving, caring, understanding. We were best friends. I cannot see anything bad about our relationship except the times that he would rage, dysregulate, push me away, give me the silent treatment, and then break up with me, painting me black. These would always seemingly come out of nowhere to me, and had nothing to do with our relationship.

I know I am not a perfect person and I have my issues (anxiety, codependency). But I KNOW and BELIEVE after working in therapy that this is NOT my fault. I know I was such a good girlfriend to him. I would let him have his space when he needed it, I was constantly thoughtful and romantic, I would want to work out any issues, I never ONCE picked a fight. I realize that I treated him a million times better than he ever treated me. Still when he would hurt me and paint me black, I would remind him of my unconditional love for him. I told him I will be here for him through thick and thin. His heart is safe with me.

He has been asking to see me and telling me he loves me. I told him I can't go through a cycle of hurt like this again. Not only does HE deserve to not run away from someone who loves him unconditionally, but I don't deserve that kind of treatment either. For a day or so he played the "You're right. You do deserve better. I have never been good at relationships that take that promise."

He mentioned something about me tugging at his heart strings and I told him, "I wish I could tug at them so tight that they would wrap around mine, and you could never run away." He said, "Whatre we going to do?" I told him that I don't know because I don't know how else to convince him that his heart is safe with me, that he can trust me with anything. I said I don't know how to stop him from leaving me when times get hard. I said I wanted to be the one who's there during those times, hold you, laugh with you, make you realize we can get through anything together. He said, "I'm not sure what capacity I can be in a relationship right now." I told him. "I understand. I'm here for you. I'm sorry you are going through such tough times. I wish there was something I could do."

Today he came back with this very hurtful statement:

"You've done enough. Protecting yourself with the veil of me having the problems is one of the big issues. I didn't break up with you because I was sad.

I was tired of you.

Stop treating me like that. This is case-in-point what I said yesterday. This isn't a soap opera. You were a cause, not a solution. You're talking to me as if I'm going to prison for life or I have aids.

Reality is: I love you. More than anything. We're just toxic for me. Our relationship changed me into a person I never want to be."

I know that these things aren't the truth. He would always tell me I was the best thing that ever happened to him. He would always tell me how happy I made him.

My question is, Does he really believe these things? Just a few days ago he told me he cant trust anyone and cant make the promise of commitment. I've never run away. I've never threatened to leave him. I've never picked a fight. I've done nothing but be loving and understanding, unconditionally. Does he really believe that I am toxic?  I

I don't think there is anything left to say to him. :'(

[wishfulthinking]

Just 2 days ago, my uBPDh told me he was "sick of you".  "unhappy".  "trapped".  I stayed silent for the rest of the night and yesterday because I had nothing else to say.  He has screamed mean things at me before in a rage, but he said those things calmly and it made me wonder if he really meant them that way since he was so calm about it.

Yesterday I went home and gave him a list of things I love about him since he chief complaint is I don't love him enough.  Then I told him that since he is sick of me and unhappy, I will let him go if that's what he wants.  He told me he wasn't sick of me, but sick of other things.  Finances, stuff with our kids, his work, he takes some of my prefessions of love as though I'm faking them to make him feel better instead of seeing that I truly love him.

I think yours is just projecting and is hurt, also.  From what I'm seeing on here, BPD's are pros at put downs and knowing exactly what to say that will hurt the person most and will say anything horrible out of anger and dejection.

I'm interested to see what others feel.  Keep us informed.

[seektruth]

I'm sorry you're hurting, NewKate.

It just sounds like typical BPD stuff - he probably felt attacked last night - and not saying at all that you did attack him, but as we know pwBPD are VERY sensitive to any perceived slight about them.  I think he's just doing what he does - puts the blame on someone else, you in particular this time.  It sounds like he's projecting.  I wouldn't take it personal as it's just his way of protecting himself and he's doing all he has ever known to survive.  I know it doesn't take away the hurt, but their disease is not about us, but their own triggers and faulty thinking.  Please take care of yourself.

[123Phoebe]

I know I am not a perfect person and I have my issues (anxiety, codependency). But I KNOW and BELIEVE after working in therapy that this is NOT my fault. I know I was such a good girlfriend to him. I would let him have his space when he needed it, I was constantly thoughtful and romantic, I would want to work out any issues, I never ONCE picked a fight. I realize that I treated him a million times better than he ever treated me. Still when he would hurt me and paint me black, I would remind him of my unconditional love for him. I told him I will be here for him through thick and thin. His heart is safe with me.

NewKate, I'm curious... . ?  Why would you remind him of your unconditional love when he would hurt you?

[Newkate]

NewKate, I'm curious... . ?  Why would you remind him of your unconditional love when he would hurt you?

Because I will always love him, regardless of the circumstances. Even if we are not together romantically, I will always "have his back" as they say. He honestly doesn't have anyone in this world that loves him unconditionally as his family abandoned him, and he has no truly close friends. But I do love him unconditionally and always will, even when I find that person who I can trust to keep my heart safe. Even though he hurts me, I know deep down he does not do it intentionally.

[patientandclear]

***

He mentioned something about me tugging at his heart strings and I told him, "I wish I could tug at them so tight that they would wrap around mine, and you could never run away." He said, "Whatre we going to do?" I told him that I don't know because I don't know how else to convince him that his heart is safe with me, that he can trust me with anything. I said I don't know how to stop him from leaving me when times get hard. I said I wanted to be the one who's there during those times, hold you, laugh with you, make you realize we can get through anything together. He said, "I'm not sure what capacity I can be in a relationship right now." I told him. "I understand. I'm here for you. I'm sorry you are going through such tough times. I wish there was something I could do."

Today he came back with this very hurtful statement:

"You've done enough. Protecting yourself with the veil of me having the problems is one of the big issues. I didn't break up with you because I was sad.

I was tired of you.

Stop treating me like that. This is case-in-point what I said yesterday. This isn't a soap opera. You were a cause, not a solution. You're talking to me as if I'm going to prison for life or I have aids.

Reality is: I love you. More than anything. We're just toxic for me. Our relationship changed me into a person I never want to be."

I know that these things aren't the truth. He would always tell me I was the best thing that ever happened to him. He would always tell me how happy I made him.

My question is, Does he really believe these things? Just a few days ago he told me he cant trust anyone and cant make the promise of commitment. I've never run away. I've never threatened to leave him. I've never picked a fight. I've done nothing but be loving and understanding, unconditionally. Does he really believe that I am toxic?

Kate ... .

Ugh.  That is a classic BPD stew, for sure.

He said he loves you, more than anything, but "we [not you] are toxic for" him, and the r/s turned him into a person he would never want to be.

It seems like you think this is antithetical somehow to the fact that you were loving and kind and your r/s was warm and great most of the time ... . but it isn't.

The more carefully I listen to my own pwBPD and the more carefully I read the stories around here, the more I see the pattern of pwBPD not liking the feeling of needing or being needed.  So the more you get entwined and enmeshed -- the more he feels lost without you, that he needs you, that nothing could ever take the place of you -- ironically (or maybe not), the more he feels the r/s is turning him into someone he doesn't want to be.

My ex makes lots of comments I didn't register at first as being significant, but that keep showing up here over & over: he doesn't want to be dependent on me, not in any way.  He is acutely uncomfortable that I paid for a cup of coffee for him.  Really.  He doesn't want me to take care of him -- even though, he says, it would be easy to get used to that and to like it too much.  "But that wouldn't be good for either of us." Do you see the pattern?  Too much good = bad.  He needs not to be so enmeshed.  And frankly, there is probably a kernel of truth in there, though seeing that in my own r/s took a long time (I liked being worshipped!  Realizing that it wasn't good for him or for me that he worshipped me -- that took a while.)

Also ... . the inability to hear that there is anything wrong with how they are processing their feelings is both a classic BPD defense mechanism and a huge barrier for the way you are trying to address things.  You are explaining to him that he is messed up.  His defense mechanism is to explain to you that you are the flawed one.  My usually very reserved and disciplined ex lost his ___ briefly & attacked me for my "hubris" when I commented that I didn't think we should try our romantic r/s again unless he took some steps he had not chosen to take yet.  It is essential to his storyline that he rejected me, he chose not to be with me.  You are challenging that -- you are saying YOU have requirements for the r/s that involve him acknowledging he has issues, and that is going to be very difficult for him to process.

Even apart from BPD, no one wants to be the "sick" one in any r/s.  The whole "I am a perfect loving being, even going so far as to love you completely despite how F'd up you are" is actually kind of alienating ... . it was my stance, at least in my mind, for a long time, but I can see how it actually is kind of hard for them to work with.

Saying "your feelings seem to change quickly & if we are going to stay together, I'd appreciate it if you could work on sticking around long enough to give us a chance to stabilize" is more fact-based.  Saying what you need and are suggesting or asking for, rather than quasi-diagnosing the situation, may make the conversation go better, if it continues.  Sharing this because I've learned it the hard way ... .

[Newkate]

Saying "your feelings seem to change quickly & if we are going to stay together, I'd appreciate it if you could work on sticking around long enough to give us a chance to stabilize" is more fact-based.  Saying what you need and are suggesting or asking for, rather than quasi-diagnosing the situation, may make the conversation go better, if it continues.  Sharing this because I've learned it the hard way ... .

Thank you, Patientandclear. You always seem to have such great insight and I truly appreciate that.

I am stuck not know how or if to act next. My gut feeling tells me I should not reply to him. I am known for always automatically replying, no matter what. My therapist told me I should not speak with him right now, and focus on me. I feel like if I say something, it will just bring more hurt. I don't know what to do.

[123Phoebe]

My therapist told me I should not speak with him right now, and focus on me. I feel like if I say something, it will just bring more hurt. I don't know what to do.

Your feelings are telling you something Newkate, please try to really listen to them. 

Sitting with our feelings can get mighty uncomfortable, painful even-- all of that anxiety... .   It's no fun at all.  It is absolutely necessary though, for real growth.  I call them growing pains, and every single one of them builds up our strength  

Your therapist has given you very sound advice... .   Focus on you.

[patientandclear]

I always accuse Phoebe of being cryptic when she says "focus on you!"  I hope she'll spell it out, because she's wise and it helps.

(Phoebe BTW, your recent guidance has been extraordinarily helpful in my own situation.  We are in process, it is what it is, it has goodness, you get what you give, and so on.  Thank you, as ever!)

Kate, I did want to say that, while I suggest you move away from telling him how he feels and focus more on what you concretely need and want -- that doesn't mean stating what you need or want will result in it happening.  I spelled out for my ex what I needed or wanted, pretty much along the lines of what I said above.  He decided he didn't want to be in a r/s in the face of that.  I just mean that the conversation itself may not end up making you feel quite as de-centered as one in which you tell  him you understand he is afraid of you hurting him, and you would never do that; and then he says "I don't know what you're talking about, Crazy Kate, I'm not worried about you hurting me, things have just shifted in my feelings toward you and I don't know why" or "I'm tired of you" or "we'd be great if you just hadn't fallen asleep while I was talking to you last week" or "if you weren't so naive and gullible," or whatever the chosen thing is that he will point to in you that explains the problem.

That doesn't mean you are wrong that he is afraid you will hurt him.  I'm sure you're right.  But that is not a narrative he is likely to participate in for more than a moment, and the rejection of it may take some really painful forms.

So -- if you are going to talk about the r/s, I urge not trying to get in his head for him.  Focus what you want, need and are able to do, assuming he is and will be just as he is now.  What, if anything, do you want to do with that person, the actual him in the here and now?  The one who dysregulates and leaves from time to time, and occasionally says things like "I'm tired of you?"  Because that's who he is, and for the foreseeable future, will be.

Honestly, I am not sure about the advice of not speaking to him, unless you are deciding on a long term no contact approach.  I know I've been haunted by how little my ex and I talked about what to do.  I think you can focus on you (as hopefully to be explained by Phoebe) without necessarily ending the communication.  Perhaps it would change the communication though.

But I also agree that if your body is telling you to draw back and stay out of communication, it makes sense to listen to it.  My body gave me all kinds of warnings that proved to be accurate.

[123Phoebe]

if your body is telling you to draw back and stay out of communication, it makes sense to listen to it.  

Our bodies don't lie.  And I'm not suggesting never speaking to him again, Newkate, it's not a matter of no contact no matter what.  It's listening to your gut feelings!  It's great that you've come as far as recognizing what your feelings are saying  That you'll feel more hurt by saying something right now, by responding.

When I focus on myself, I'm getting in touch with my wants and needs.  Sometimes, what I want is to feel loved and appreciated.  Would it make sense for me to chase after that from someone I know has the power to hurt me?  What message am I conveying by doing that, by chasing their love in the face of hurt and disappointment?  

That I equate love with hurt and disappointment, perhaps?  That I expect to be hurt and that's okay?  Hurt me, I love you anyway?  

Our own intimacy patterns are deeply ingrained, much like our partners who we suspect of having serious issues.  Heck, we don't suspect, we tell them flat out, 'Hey, you have issues, man!'  And we feel all hurt and shocked when they throw it right back at us.

Nobody likes to hear that they're effed up.  And our natural defense mechanisms kick in to counter such an attack to our psyche.  It's being human, a survival mechanism.

What I am suggesting you think about, are ways to love yourself and appreciate yourself, with no input or actions needed by him.  

He does not hold the keys to your happiness, you do

Loving and having compassion for someone who has hurt you is one thing.  Setting out to hurt yourself, in the name of love, is another.  It's called Codependency and there is nothing lovely about it.  It's an addiction, an addiction to another person and it keeps everybody stuck.

Change your perceptions and you change your life... .  Put the focus on you... .  Nothing changes without change... .

[VeryFree]

Don't take it personally Kate.

My stbx came from an abusive FOG.

Encountered a lot of problems before we met.

We were together for ten years and she visited a lot of T.

Problems grew bigger (her own problems and our problems).

At the end she told me I have ruined her beautiful life... .

Yes, they tend to put the blame on others, mostly on the closest person.

[123Phoebe]

Yes, they tend to put the blame on others, mostly on the closest person.

Agreed.  Would it be fair to say that we place blame on them, too?  Or blame on the closest people to them = their original abusers?  Do we blame ourselves sometimes?

We want to get away from the blame game and start living productively and healthily.

[VeryFree]

Agreed.  Would it be fair to say that we place blame on them, too? 

I definitely did. I knew she had mental issues (didn't know about BPD, she never told me she was diagnosedd PD) and focused on that too much. I should have kept my distance and should have looked more at my own issues. Maybe it would have helped the r/s. I'll never know.

Or blame on the closest people to them = their original abusers? 

I still do. Reason: she blames me for everything wrong in her life. She doesn't blame her parents. Right now she and her parents are clinging together against me.

Gives a strange feeling: the core of her problem is supporting her to bring down one of the victims of her problems... . (don't feel like a victim though, I'm over that, but I don't know how to put it else).

Do we blame ourselves sometimes?

Partly I did. I should have done things diferently and so on. Looking back I wish I had done things differently, but I don't think it had been different at the end. Maybe for me, but not for the r/s.

We want to get away from the blame game and start living productively and healthily.

Absolutely!

[tayana]

Yes they push blame to other people, and I think they do believe these things. 

My BPD told me that I was her best friend and the love of her life and in the same conversation told me that she could never be in love with someone like me because she needs more from a relationship.  She wants me to touch, hold, and comfort and reassure her every moment of the day.  She was jealous of our baby when I was breastfeeding because he got all the attention.  She just told me a few days ago that our relationship was toxic for her and that her doctor didn't want her to come back to the house after her last hospitalization.  She's told me over and over that she feels trapped because she has nothing in her name.  She says that I control everything, but not once have I told her she can't leave.  Not once have I ever hinted that she is my prisoner, that I would deny her access to our kids, that she can't spend money or she can't leave.  All I have asked is that she keep our kids together and they stay in their current home.

I have offered to help her find someplace else to live.  I even offered to figure out how to pay for another residence.  The only threat I ever made was to call the police if she took the baby and left which she threatened to do multiple times.  Her response was that if she couldn't have the kids, she would make sure I would never see either of them again.  She would call family services and have me declared unfit because she would rather they be in foster care than with me.  If I confronted her with this today, she would deny it.

If your gut is saying you need to stop contact for a while, then you should.  See how you feel without contact. 

[momtara]

You can do everything right, be the best person for them, etc., and they will still say this because it's a disease.  Unfortunately it puts us on the defensive, trying to prove things that would be obvious to anyone else.

Just know that he will say the same negative things in any relationship, no matter how good anyone treats him, and probably has.  It's not that WE'RE toxic, or you're toxic.  It's that he has BPD. 

Sometimes you can just keep protesting until he comes out of a cycle.  And don't respond with anything mean.  But it hurts to be the one always giving, doesn't it?

I am codependent and I know I liked letting hubby lean on me.  I think it's fine to be codependent, fine to give and give and give, but don't feel bad when it's never enough.  It's not you. 

ALSO:  I believe they DO  know the truth, but they can't always deal with it up front.  They have a disease, and it helps them feel better or make sense of it by saying those hurtful things. 

How do I know this?  When I finally left my husband, he went to counseling, and eventually admitted to everything and said I was a great wife, brought up specific examples of good things I did that he was mean to me about, etc.  So deep inside, they KNOW.  But the circular conversations you have with them may not convince them.  At least, not immediately.  They may remember later when they are in a normal stage.

[123Phoebe]

I am codependent and I know I liked letting hubby lean on me.  I think it's fine to be codependent, fine to give and give and give, but don't feel bad when it's never enough.  It's not you.  

[Newkate]

Loving and having compassion for someone who has hurt you is one thing.  Setting out to hurt yourself, in the name of love, is another.  It's called Codependency and there is nothing lovely about it.  It's an addiction, an addiction to another person and it keeps everybody stuck.

Change your perceptions and you change your life... .  Put the focus on you... .  Nothing changes without change... .

Thank you,  Phoebe. I definitely know I have issues with codependency.  I just received Codependent No More from Amazon and plan on taking that camping with me this weekend.

I did decide to respond back to my BPD SO. He ended things with, "I love you. More than anything. We're just toxic for me. Our relationship changed me into a person I never want to be." I wrote him, "I am sad and sorry you feel that way. I love you more than anything too." I told myself I will not expect a reply, and just go on with my life and spending some quality time with myself and my family this weekend. Let's hope my brain can stick to it. 

[believeimagoodhusband]

Wait, I don't get it?  You're not married right?  No kids?  I would run!  Too many fish in the sea.  I've been married to my uBPDw for 12 yrs now w kids.  Things are tough.