When my son doesn't get what he wants.

[Kate4queen]

5 days of emails because he wants to abandon his AA community college courses in favor of an online legal qualification that costs $350 an hour tuition.

I tried to be neutral and helpful and stick to our boundary of 1 more year of community college tuition and books paid for. or the cash equivalent to be put against an educational qualification of your choice.

Then he tried to get me to co-sign a $20K student loan.

I said no and reiterated above boundary and this is what I got today.

I hope that when you're reflecting upon your life in the upcoming golden years you look back on this period with the most profound embarrassment and shame. You are a vapid, greedy, shameful, and dare I say evil individual. I really mean that. It is the truth, has been for a long time, and you consistently renew the truthfulness of my assessment through your evil actions. You are the worst kind of human being on the planet. Shame on you.

It's interesting he uses shame twice.

I don't even get angry with these emails anymore, I was expecting it when I didn't instantly jump on board with his new crazy plan. I just feel so sorry for him. All that rage.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[twojaybirds]

  for not getting angry and not jumping on board.

That's all we can do is to control our actions and know the difference between what is best and what is perceived as best.

[lovesjazz]

Good for you to sticking to your boundaries.  $20k loan?   Who knows what that would be used for. If it were my ds, id end up paying the loan... . good for you!

[Kate4queen]

Good for you to sticking to your boundaries.  $20k loan?   Who knows what that would be used for. If it were my ds, id end up paying the loan... . good for you!

I can guarantee you, so would I. So not happening... .

[vivekananda]

It is so sad, and I do feel sorry for him that he has to interpret things in this way. Of course I feel for you and your family, I am pleased that you are able to 'accept' this. I am proud that you are sticking to your boundaries.

I read this to my dh he said, that could be our dd... . but I reckon while she might think that, I don't think she would write it.

Do you feel a reply saying something like, "I am sorry you feel that way." appropriate? I am not sure, but will a non response let him think he has been successful in hurting you, making you feel guilty or something? I would be interested in what you thought.

He also uses evil twice... . so, given that what people often tell us about ourselves, is more like what they think about themselves, that doesn't look so good.

He feels hurt, resentful, angry, fearful (he isn't going to have any 'golden years', frustrated, embarrassed that he asked. He feels shamed, perhaps he feels 'evil'. I think he has deliberately tried to be hurtful and this, as he writes, he recognises. How terribly mixed up he is. It's easy to see those personality traits of self righteousness and self entitlement and superiority in this, isn't it?

Thank you Kate for sharing this. I would be interested to know if you think it would be good to respond. To validate his feelings and reiterate your value based boundary - spell it out... . ? I don't know what I would do... .

Vivek    

 

[jellibeans]

I agree with vive... . I think your son is projecting on to you. He must have a lot of pain right now to rage at you like this.

[Kate4queen]

Actually as this is a recognizable pattern  from 'hey can I have this? love your son" to where we are above, we've already had a discussion about how we deal with this. When it gets to this level of abuse where I used to feel physically sick because of what he writes and says to me, we told him in an email that we had a right to discontinue the conversation if we felt we were being attacked and all I replied was. "I think this conversation is done."

Trust me, if I said "I'm sorry" at this point -which I tried many times in the past to validate him-I'd get 15 more emails ranting at me getting worse and worse.

As it is, after my last email I got 2 more, one wishing I'd burn in hell.

I totally get that he is reflecting his own rage and shame on me, but there is no way at present that I or his dad are allowed to try and help with that. It's pretty damn sad, but that's how it is.

[MammaMia]

Kate4Queen

I believe that e-mail was meant for me.  According to my dBPDs, I am EVIL personified, Spawn of the Devil.  I have ruined his life, and he hates me. I am a Wicked Witch.  He just wishes I would die so I would leave him alone.

This is the person who calls ME multiple times day and night just to chat, but gets angry when I run out of things to say or if I talk about "superficial" things.  He says I never learned how to have a conversation with anyone, and he might as well be talking to a rock then he abruptly ends the conversation. 

Then, like tonight, he showed up and brought me Chinese take-out.  A very sweet and kind thing to do.  On the other hand, maybe it is laced with poison ?  (Just kidding)... .

This is BPD.  Sometimes, I want to laugh out loud.  But it is ok ... . He will hate me again tomorrow.

Just wanted you to know you are not alone, my friend.

[Thursday]

Kate4Queen,

I think the way you deal with this situation is top notch... . you know he is sick, know when to hold back on deserved vitriol and you have exhausted validation... . or have you? Would it be validating to tell him,

"Yes, it really sucks to be you... . "

More seriously, I don't know what I would do or how I would feel exactly to receive a communique such as this. SD may spew some of this behind our backs but never directly. And she would never take the effort to put so many words together.

Seems like you are in a healthy place and hope my stab at humor isn't hurtful...

xoxo

Thursday

[suchsadness]

Hi Kate4queen   

Thank you for posting this - I thought I was the only one who got such AWFUL emails, and raging phone calls where our loved ones say such horrible things to us... . to this degree!  I am still trying to deal with the last rages from my dd35 who posted on FB that I am a huge piece of  sh#!, emailed me telling me I'm dead to her, I'm a sociopath, she hopes I die a slow painful death and rot in hell, amongst many many other terrible things.  This is what I got from not sending her money when she told me that she was homeless and sleeping in her car 1200 miles away.  We have been NC since that time (May 29th) at which time I blocked her from my cell phone.  You did well to let your ds know that you were ending the conversation... . even though he (like my dd did as well) continued to try to provoke you. 

I have been reading posts daily on this site and trying to keep up with everyone's situations and praying for all of us who are going through these daily trials.  I have just not had the emotional strength to respond to people's posts for quite some time.  My heart goes out to all who are struggling and hope that we can all reach a place in our lives that we have peace with how we have supported our pwBPD and endured the times that we have been the target of this horrific disorder.      to all.

[FaithfulHope]

I, too, get these kinds of messages when I don't jump on board with whatever my dd wants at the moment.   I am so sad so many of us get such horrible messages but I am so glad we can support each other through it.   

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[MammaMia]

We need to recognize these outbursts for what they are.  PwBPD cannot control their emotions, they feel entitled, and everything is our fault. They are like 2 year olds throwing a temper tantrum, only their verbal skills are better and they know every cuss word ever invented.

When they cross this boundary, I have found the best reaction is no reaction.  Just end the conversation.  Going NC following that sends a message as well:  that this behavior is not acceptable.   

Above all else DO NOT engage them in an argument, and do not take these outbursts personally.  It is all part of their BPD.  With time, you can learn to disregard their tantrums, as you would with a very small child.  It is a tool they use to hurt us and it needs to be made ineffective. Are they frustrated?  Yes... . can we "fix" everything for them... . No.  They need to develop coping skills just like we do.

[Kate4queen]

Kate4Queen,

I think the way you deal with this situation is top notch... . you know he is sick, know when to hold back on deserved vitriol and you have exhausted validation... . or have you? Would it be validating to tell him,

"Yes, it really sucks to be you... . "

More seriously, I don't know what I would do or how I would feel exactly to receive a communique such as this. SD may spew some of this behind our backs but never directly. And she would never take the effort to put so many words together.

Seems like you are in a healthy place and hope my stab at humor isn't hurtful...

xoxo

Thursday

I wish I could say that, but he has no ability to take a joke although he ridicules everyone and he wouldn't believe I was being sincere, he's incredibly perceptive and sensitive to emotions in others.

He'll probably feel better now he's vented his rage on me and the cycle will start again. He'll go NC for a week or 2 until he wants something and then he'll carry on as if nothing happened. It's his coping mechanism. I just don't have to play the game anymore.

Words are his weapons of choice and he uses them very well and knows just how to hurt me. But when it comes down to it, it's not actually about me at all, is it?

Poor kid.

[vivekananda]

... . But when it comes down to it, it's not actually about me at all, is it?

Poor kid.

More wisdom from you Kate! Go you girl!

Vivek    

[six]

You know, Kate, when I read your posts, I always feel like I wrote them.  your son sounds a lot like mine.  I applaud your keeping boundaries.  i am working hard on that too

I have been on the recieving end of countelss emails, texts and voice messages wishing me death and accusing me of the worst atrocities.  When I look back on these outbusts I realize that they generally have nothing to do with me.  it is my son's way of letting me know that he is really angry that the dry cleaner lost his shirt, and if it wasnt for me choosing to live in this stupid neighborhood, he would never have brought the shirt to that *$%* dry cleaner. 

what I have been trying to do lately is to help him get to the issue that he is really angry about and this involves me completely taking my "self" out of the conversation.  I ignore his barbs at me and try to help him to focus on what he is really angry about.  Once a few weeks ago, he actually apologized for how vitriolic his email was and said that he wouldnt have written it so harshly except that it was late at night.

I have also adopted the policy of never responding to these emails or texts by email or text.  meaning that instead, i have a converstaion with him when i think he is ready to do that.  i also try to mimic his emotional state like when he calls me seething about the lost shirt, i show him with my voice how upsetting it is to me to think that his shirt was lost.  i used to say, "no big deal, calm down" but that enrages him more.  so i try to validate his pain at the shirt being lost.

hope this helps

[Kate4queen]

You know, Kate, when I read your posts, I always feel like I wrote them.  your son sounds a lot like mine.  I applaud your keeping boundaries.  i am working hard on that too

I have been on the recieving end of countelss emails, texts and voice messages wishing me death and accusing me of the worst atrocities.  When I look back on these outbusts I realize that they generally have nothing to do with me.  it is my son's way of letting me know that he is really angry that the dry cleaner lost his shirt, and if it wasnt for me choosing to live in this stupid neighborhood, he would never have brought the shirt to that *$%* dry cleaner. 

what I have been trying to do lately is to help him get to the issue that he is really angry about and this involves me completely taking my "self" out of the conversation.  I ignore his barbs at me and try to help him to focus on what he is really angry about.  Once a few weeks ago, he actually apologized for how vitriolic his email was and said that he wouldnt have written it so harshly except that it was late at night.

I have also adopted the policy of never responding to these emails or texts by email or text.  meaning that instead, i have a converstaion with him when i think he is ready to do that.  i also try to mimic his emotional state like when he calls me seething about the lost shirt, i show him with my voice how upsetting it is to me to think that his shirt was lost.  i used to say, "no big deal, calm down" but that enrages him more.  so i try to validate his pain at the shirt being lost.

hope this helps

I always appreciate hearing about other people's son's with BPD, it makes you feel less alone somehow doesn't it?

I'm afraid I no longer have the kind of relationship with my son where I can give him advice about anything without it backfiring, or him using it as an excuse for venting his rage on me. My dh and I were always his primary targets, and so we had to take steps to save ourselves and our marriage and step back. (Also, my son walked out and went to live with another family claiming they loved and understood him way better than we ever had, and he also barred us from the hospital when he had surgery that we paid for.) Those 2 things brought home to us how much he blamed and hated us for everything that was wrong with his life and also made us realize that nothing we did would make things better and that we had to stop being sucked into his void of rage and negativity and pain.

We offer him what he wants, $, a place to live-nothing that we can't afford never to see again, and those things come with no demands for behavior modification or changes in his behavior. We believe those changes have to come from him and will support him if he makes those decisions to the best of our ability.

I admire you for still being there for your son. He doesn't know how lucky he is.

[Dibdob59]

Kate4queen

I can hear your pain through your words.  You are doing what is right for you and and your son and there are times when I have felt exactly the same way, ie. the need to enforce clear and realistic boundaries and expectations.

From your posts it is evident that you have made repeated attempts to reach your son and support him in a loving and appropriate way.  Unfortunately your son is apparently unable to accept your boundaries and you have therefore made a united stand with your husband in order to protect the rest of your family. 

I admire your strength and know that I will soon be tested to make similar choices, which in truth I am dreading.  My H is BPD also and only inflames the situation with my son which is a further complication I need to work through.

The depth of love you have for your son is made clear by your desire to do the right thing for him and all of your family.  He is blessed, but does not yet know this. I pray the time will come when he sees more clearly just how hard you have fought for him to be saved from himself.

D

[Kate4queen]

Thank you D. and right back at you.