I couldn't do it... again

[eternity75]

I tried again to break things off with my bf who has uBPD.

Again, I failed miserably.

Somehow he always knows just what to say and do. At one point it was like he was finally ready to let me go... . but then he said a bunch of things that created doubt in my mind.

Is this normal? He went from calm "Oh here we go again. Ok this time I will not stop you. You don't want to be with me... . ok. You never think before you say things. But this time if you don't want to be with me then I will let you go". To angry sounding "I don't want to speak to you ever again if you end this. If you want to finish with me ok. I don't want to be your friend. It is not good for me. I will not want to talk to you anymore if this is the choice you make. Why would I want that? I don't believe you love me". To crying "Thank you for everything. Thank you for _____. Thank you for _____. Thank you for  _____. Sorry for everything. Sorry for not making you happy. Sorry for not being enough for you. Sorry for... . sorry for... . sorry for... . " To calm again... . "I love you and I don't want to lose you. I call you every day because I love you. I am spending all this time on the phone talking to you about this right now because I love you. I try to be patient with how you are feeling. I try to understand you and what you need because I love you. If I didn't love you I would just say 'I don't care' and be done with you"

The guilt card seems to work with me every time. And never before has he said he would not speak to me ever again if I end things with him and that it would be bad for him.

I asked him to try to think about things from my perspective. To try to understand how I feel knowing in the past he has cheated and said many sexual things to many other women. And now he plans to go to Mexico and see those other women and expects me to just trust and be ok with that. I asked him to think about it from my perspective how he would feel if I had sexual chats with other guys... . ex boyfriends or new guys... . and he found out about this... . and then I told him I am taking a trip that I do not want him to come on... . and he knew those guys would be there and chances were good that I would see one or all of them while there. I asked him to think how he would feel if after 8 months of being together (10 months by the time he takes his trip) I was taking a trip to go visit my family whom he had never met and as much as I had always said I love him and he is important to me, I did not want him to come along on this trip with me to meet my family and friends.

His response? He couldn't think about that because he and I think very very differently about things. At one point he said he would let me go alone and he would not spend every day thinking about what am I doing and who am I with. He is completely unable to understand my perspective. On anything.

I then asked him if he sees a future with me. If he can imagine being married to me, having kids. He replied that he can't think about the future. He says he can't because he doesn't know what will happen. He is in my country on a work visa and he doesn't know for sure if he will be able to get citizenship here so he couldn't answer that. He doesn't like to think about the future, he doesn't like to think about the past. I apparently think too much but don't think enough before I speak. He calls me crazy because of the rollercoaster of emotions I ride.

Am I crazy? Is all of this me?

[Aussie0zborn]

I read the first 5/8ths of your post and then skimmed through because I have been through it all and i know that story word for word. I could have written that myself and so could many others here because the same thing happened to us.

The interesting thing is that they can always turn it around to blame you hand put doubts in your mind, making you feel guilty. Feeling guilty is not a good enough reason to stay as you will one day regret it, they will pick up on it and then your life will really be hell.

If he seriously has BPD, your situation will only change when you decide to find someone else. Good luck.

[Scout99]

No You are not crazy! But he is projecting on you the things he knows about himself to be true.

I am sorry for all the confusion you must feel you are in. It is so easy to loose sight of the objective and start to doubt ourselves when trying to have a heart to heart conversation with a BPD, because they create a lot of confusion by sometimes responding in a normal way, and sometimes in a way we just never would have expected... .

This about not being able to see things your way as he puts it and being ok with you doing the things you were trying to tell him would hurt you if he continued to do them is such a great example of the ways they warp things around for us to make us doubt both reality and often also our own morals and boundaries... .

And all of a sudden we find ourselves accepting of things that just ten minutes ago were completely out of line and above all something we don't want anyone else to have to go through... .

And it is in times like these it is so important to take a step back and think things through, and like you drop a line here and do some reflecting... .

From my perspective, even if he says he doesn't think the way you do, if he is in love with you, and wants to be with you he could still choose to honor your opinions and your wishes and simply not go to Mexico to be with other girls. If he still chooses to do so, then face the consequences of loosing you... .

About the "future" spin... . I think this is a very common perception among pwBPD, at least in what they say... . On the inside however they are hardly what you would call mindfulness people, , that is truly being in the moment is not really their thing, but instead in their minds they seem either overwhelmed with some guilt trip from the past or making pain relieving plans for the future... . So I thought they are hardly ever here and now... . However in feeling they react according to the spur of the moment... . Long term planning with a partner however is a whole different ball game... . That is not planning for pain relief, but to the contrary would be planning for trying to play normal for... . Like forever... . And awareness of future pain for sure when they fail, which they always perceive they will... . So that type of planning is difficult to say the least for most of pw BPD.

I think you did very well here! You stayed true to your boundaries and stood your ground. And he has to make the choice. That is all you really can do... .

Now if he doesn't choose to honor your requests, what do you see yourself doing then?

Best wishes

Scout99

[max101]

Ouch! The whole Mexico thing is just disgusting, it is amazing what we endure for our BPD loved ones but I hope you get out of this relationship with all my heart because he is obviously making you look like the crazy one and this projection technique will work with some but don't let it work on you.

[123Phoebe]

He calls me crazy because of the rollercoaster of emotions I ride.

Am I crazy? Is all of this me?

No no no no no, you are not crazy

However, riding the waves of 'his' emotions and trying to follow along with 'his' train of thought will drive you a little nutsy.

That's why detachment is very necessary whether staying in or getting out of the relationship.  And learning how to get super duper comfy with yourself is imperative  

From the sound of the beginning of your post, you were trying to break up.

He said that if you want to finish with him, okay, but he will not be your friend.  Makes sense to me!

Were you telling him this in the hopes that he would 'see the light'?

Something being in a relationship with a pwBPD has taught me is to say what I mean and mean what I say.  There is no room for wobbly.  Trying to get them to see our point of view (force our point of view on them) is JADEing (justify, argue, defend and explain), which goes nowhere fast other than in circles which is crazy-making.

If you want to break up, break up.  Be strong and do it.  Believe in your own experience and reasons for doing so.  Be kind and polite and tell him that it's over, it simply didn't work out.  If you don't want to break up, then don't make threats that you're going to, because you will get a lot more of this stuff and he will know that your word can't be trusted.  Hence, because of the rollercoaster of emotions you ride.

Yea, it sounds twisted, but is it?

We are responsible for ourselves.  If we find that we're in a situation that is harmful to our well-being, it is up to us to protect ourselves.  We do that using our own boundaries and value system.

We are not victims held captive in these relationships.  We choose to stay and put up with stuff for our very own reasons... .

Do you know what yours are?

[eternity75]

Max it's been working on me now for 8 months.  I have tried so many times to break things off with him and in the end the guilt always gets me.

Scout you make some excellent points that really help me logically understand what I'm dealing with here. It was like pulling teeth but he finally said he could see his fuiture with me... . but I feel like that is all just words... . empty words to keep me hooked longer. The problem is, I didn't stay true to my boundaries. I gave in like I always do. I have ignored all of the red flags... . I have ignored all of the lies staring me in the face. I HAVE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE of his lies so what am I doing trying to fool myself? Here's the real kicker... . after an hour and a half conversation on the phone with me in which I was finally guilted enough and feeling crazy enough to stay again... . he went online and began searching for "Escorts in Guadalajara". This is RIGHT AFTER all these things I told him about how I feel. He made a big speech about how we talked about starting over and giving him one last chance last time. He kept saying ":)o you know what starting over means?" I said yes but it doesn't mean completely forgetting everything that happened in the past. And he said "but starting over doesn't mean bringing it up all the time either. All you do is think... . you're always thinking, thinking, thinking... . what am I doing? Where am I going? Who am I with? That's all you do is think about those things. You need to just trust that it is not going to happen again". Then after saying all this he searches online for escorts in Mexico... . what the heck.

I wish I could make sense of his behaviour. I wish I could know if he really loved me. I wish I understood what the last 8 months was all about. Ironically he told me I need to learn to love myself more... and said he is sure that he loves himself.

I sent my final text just now to say the final goodbye. I saw the escorts in Guadalajar search once before a few weeks ago and fooled myself into thinking maybe he's just curious. Ha! It's amazing the lies we begin to tell ourselves as well. But after a lengthy conversation about how much he loves me, and convincing me through many of his methods (guilt, manipulation, etc) that he really does love me... . and then seeing him looking for prosititutes to pick up while on his trip... . I have to be honest with myself and say "I deserve better than this" even if the weakest part of me doesn't believe it. God give me strength.

[eternity75]

Thank you Phoebe. I do know what mine are. Being idealized... . told you are the best person in the world, beautiful, loving, and soo loved... . is addictive... . it's like a drug. I do love him... . he made me feel special... . at least some of the time. And we had a lot of fun, laughter, first experiences together. All that has kept me hanging on and hoping. And I have never had the experience so early on of feeling so loved. Especially when my past was one of feeling so discarded.

But this relationship makes me feel more and more discarded now too. Only the actions and the words don't match. The actions make me feel discarded... . the words make me feel loved and special. And all of this has confused me to no end. Add to that the lies that I literally have had to play Private Investigator to unveil... . and we have a recipe for disaster.

I haven't been breaking up with him hoping he would see the light. I say what I need to say and each time the responses are different from him. Keeping me in a mix of confusion. The first time was after I found out he cheated. We were a month into our relationship... . he had declared his love to me over and over and encouraged me to open up more and more until I declared mine. And I found out he cheated. He literally cried, clung to me for hours and begged me not to leave. He kept repeating I was the best thing that ever happened to him. I have never been so thrown off balance. A guy who cries and begs and clings? Completely foreign to me... . it took hours for him to convince me to stay... . but I stayed. Biggest mistake was staying. I have never accepted cheating in the past. Times after that have been... . me breaking up with him and mostly his responses were crying and begging, or guilt... . but a lot of "you are crazy and this is all in your head". He calls me crazy every day... . it's starting to feel like a nickname.

But the bottom line is... . you are right. I did not do what I said I would do. I told him one chance... . and one chance turned into 2 and 3 and for and then one last chance... . and it's gotten out of control and ridiculous. He doesn't respect me. He doesn't take me seriously. I am just a crazy girl in his mind. And now I have to be strong... . and stick to it. This... . I know. Nothing will change without taking action. And I can't live with things staying the same. He literally has his cake and eats it too. He gets to live on both sides of the fence where the grass is greener. He has a wonderful girl who loves him, gives him attention and the closest thing to a secure and stable relationship that he could probably ever find... . and at the same time she stays and puts up with him constantly texting other girls, making plans to hook up with other women... . it's crazy. It needs to stop. And I know the only way to stop it is to take myself out of the equation.

Thank you everyone for your responses. You have really helped me.

[Scout99]

I sent my final text just now to say the final goodbye. I saw the escorts in Guadalajar search once before a few weeks ago and fooled myself into thinking maybe he's just curious. Ha! It's amazing the lies we begin to tell ourselves as well. But after a lengthy conversation about how much he loves me, and convincing me through many of his methods (guilt, manipulation, etc) that he really does love me... . and then seeing him looking for prosititutes to pick up while on his trip... . I have to be honest with myself and say "I deserve better than this" even if the weakest part of me doesn't believe it. God give me strength.

Sounds like a very good course of action!

He sounds really way out of line and being manipulated like that is devastating to say the least! Being honest with yourself and trusting in the truth that indeed you deserve way better than this is something to hold on to! Even though I know how hard it is, when those memories of good times and kind words start to play tricks on us... .

But when all is said and done, it is the meaning of those loving words that we wish for... . Not the words in themselves. But breaking free from that addiction, is hard so it is also important to acknowledge that and be kind to ourselves for not being able to stay strong all the time... .  

The Guadalajara thing is a good memory to stick to in such times. That crosses all the lines and boundaries, and puts anyone doing such a thing minutes after professing undying love for someone into the ___hole bracket... . Nobody should have to put up with that, no matter how much understanding we might have about them suffering from a personality disorder. That is just over the top!

If you haven't checked it out yet here is a link that might be of help for you in the process of breaking free from your r/s to this guy:

Ten Beliefs That Can Get You Stuck - Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder

Remember also that we are here for you and using this site by learning, posting and venting does help.

Let us know too how we best can be of help to you at this time.

It can be said again... . you deserve way better than this!

Best wishes

Scout99

[eternity75]

I am so blown away. His response to my last text that ended it and told him flat out that I know he is searching for prostitutes in Guadalajara for his trip and I cannot and will not accept this treatment any longer is this: to leave his profile picture on FB as a picture of us together, to leave his relationship status as in a relationship, and to send me this email:

"the only thing I know is I do not know what you really want

just hope you do not regret your decision

I just think and tell myself I do not want this to end I have not decided what to do

so please if you really think this is what you want I love you and do not want to lose you ok

I love you Have a great day my love, I love you"

I mean, I really shouldn't be surprised... . but for some reason I am. If the situation were reversed and I was caught looking for male hookers to sleep with and my bf broke up with me because of that... . I would feel so ashamed... . that tidbit of information alone would probably be the main focus of any interaction I had. I would probably try to apologize, admit I have a problem... . something... . OR I would get angry that I was "Spied on". Those would have been the 2 reactions I would have expected. But instead he ignores the piece of information completely, tells me he loves me, and goes about his time on FB liking pictures and commenting on posts.

It's almost laughable it's so ridiculously strange!

Yes, I regret losing him in my life. But I regret losing the "good side" of him, not the bad. And if nothing else before was a dealbreaker... . the prostitute thing is. I actually believe I've finally come to terms with my decision and the importance of finally following through. I have cried more tears over this relationship than anyone should ever have to cry... . and today there are no tears... . only firm resolve in my mind that I am doing the right thing. Maybe it will hit me again in a week or so... . or maybe a day... . I don't know.

I guess I just can't believe he's pretending like nothing happened. It's like "Ho hum, another breakup". Is this normal for pwBPD? Or is it because he's become accustomed to me breaking up and then coming right back?

[seektruth]

I understand how easy it is to fall under the spell of their words, but I strongly, STRONGLY urge you to basically dismiss anything he says and you have to focus on his actions because well it says it all really. He is a master manipulator and his greatest weapon is his words - he's willing to SAY anything to get his way.  At this point, he already knows that all he has to do is come up with the right things to say and you'll eventually forgive him or give it another go around... . and around and around you'll go.  

Honestly given everything you've written (I also skimmed through your other post with the list of his behaviors), you deserve so much better than this!  I know how hard it is leave the "good" side of him, but you must know that his "bad" side is just a much of him too.  My ex constantly cheated like yours and no matter how much I tried to "control" his cheating, the only thing that changed was that he got better at hiding it and my self-esteem got squelched to nothing (I constantly felt inferior to other woman and constantly compared myself to other woman - not fun!).  I always wondered what was wrong with me, but I realized for my ex, it wasn't about me.  This was about him and his issues. HOWEVER, my "stuff" was about me.  The fact that I was willing to put up with just crap behavior basically.  Why did I tolerate that?  That's where you need to start when trying to climb out of this rabbit hole from Wonderland.  There is nothing you can do to change, cure or control your bf, but you can do all of those things in your own life... .

A couple good reads is "Co-dependent no more" and "Stop Walking on Eggshless".

[eternity75]

Seek truth, thank you for reminding me that I'm not alone in this. It helps to know there are others out there who have gone or are going through the exact same things as me... . only with different men.

I hate that anyone has to go through this. I realize I have huge co-dependency issues and I know I need to work on myself to change this and stop attracting these kinds of men into my life. I have started reading the Betrayal Bond and a lot of it is hitting home. I will check out the Co-Dependency one you recommend as well.

I finally realize that this stuff really is about him and not me. As much as it feels like it was about me or my inadequacies, I realize I loved him the best I could, I gave him everything I could, and it is not me who was inadequate. Regardless of who he replaces me with. It's frustrating that all these women think he's "such a doll" and so sweet. Little do they know what they are up against if they hook up with him. I have excellent skills with computers and that is the only way I was able to know what was going on even from a distance. If it weren't for that, he could have snowballed me for years instead of only 8 months.

[eternity75]

He is now trying to convince me that his search for escorts was only to expose me because he was so sure that I was somehow watching his activities on the internet. So he claims it was just a way to make me admit it. Funny thing is I told him long ago "Yes I AM watching... . until I see evidence that shows me you are telling the truth and have stopped these sex chats with women online, I am watching" This was like 6 months ago and since then there have been multiple times that I have busted him with his online activities... . being that we were long distance, the only way possible for me to know those things was if I was watching... . it's no news to him. And the thing is he knew I was watching and he did it anyways... . he just tried to be more "careful" about it.

So I find myself constantly having to remind myself... . I was never ok with the cheating... . I was never ok with the emotional affairs... . I was never ok with the lying... . and I am NOT ok with him seeking out prostitutes! I guess I need to remind myself regularly so I don't get sucked back into the lies he tells that I want to believe. He is still texting today telling me he loves me.

Originally he said he wanted nothing to do with me if I stuck to my decision... . my response to that was "Why? You have contact with all your other exes". Yes a bit sarcastic. He seeks attention and validation from every one of them... . why would I be any different?

*sigh*

[123Phoebe]

I'm wondering if it would be helpful for you to block him from being able to text you for a couple of days at least, to give you space to clear your head?  Being bombarded with messages from him, I would imagine feels pretty confusing.  Blocking him would help you to detach a bit and you could always unblock him later if you wanted to.  Just a thought.

When I was doing things like spying on my guy, I knew it had to stop.  I had to stop and regroup and think about what in the world was going on inside of me to warrant invading someone's space and privacy like that.  In the moment(s), I felt justified.  In reality, my needs weren't being met.  It didn't make it right for me to behave the way I was though because of that.  There are other ways to go about expressing my needs (whether or not someone's willing to meet them) that don't clash strongly with my own value system.  As a result, I was actually harming myself and couldn't blame him for it.  A double-whammy to my psyche.  I had let myself become someone I didn't want to be and actually despised.  Yuck.

Detaching and recovering from this relationship is going to be hard; that's the reality of it, eternity

Be sure to get lots of rest, exercise and eat wholesome foods.  Take things one day at a time, maybe even one hour at a time   Knowing that on the other side of all these confusing and yucky feelings, there's a brighter future that awaits

You are not walking this path alone... .

[eternity75]

Thank you Phoebe. I haven't gone no contact with him. I feel like doing so is like abandoning a child. He seems so lost and hurt right now and despite the hurt he caused me, I feel like going no contact would be kind of cruel. Today is day 2 since I ended it. He keeps saying he loves me. And every once in awhile keeps asking if I am sure this is what I've decided. I am not cruel, blunt or mean in my responses... . I just keep repeating that yes I am sure this time and that I can't keep feeling like I am inadequate or not enough for him because of his continual interest and attention to other women. Repeat, repeat, repeat. He still has our photo as his profile picture and his status as "in a relationship" despite me changing mine. It's kind of like a child who isn't giving up hope.

I was never proud of the spying. But I do think it saved me a lot more grief down the road, because as I said, I would have bought into his lies for much longer and he would have cheated for much longer. I could have ended up waiting 3 years for him to get permanent residency, marrying him, and then finding out about his affairs. Who knows. I continued it after agreeing to 2nd, 3rd chances etc because I wanted to see evidence of change. If he had ceased his activities I would have felt more ability to trust in him and felt able to stop checking his every move. I realize my justifications don't make it right. Women who feel secure in themselves would not need physical evidence to leave a relationship that doesn't feel right. Unfortunately I questioned myself so much that I felt I had to prove it to myself because "What if I am wrong? What if I end something with someone that really could be 'the one' and find out I was wrong? Or end up regretting my decision forever because I didn't know... . for sure?" That is the problem with not trusting enough in yourself to trust your own instincts... . my instincts were VERY sharp... . but I didn't trust enough in them.

I feel very sad and alone and missing him. Missing his phone calls every day and hearing his voiceMissing chatting on cam with him and laughing about silly things. But I have to keep reminding myself that I have never felt completely wanted by him or like I was enough. Now he wants again what he can't have... . it was always about the chase, never the catch. Yes we had many great moments together, but feeling sad and anxious every day was not what I wanted or expected from a relationship with someone who claimed to love me with all his heart and soul.

The day I decided to break it off, I sat down and wrote a list of ways I will show love for myself. It is helping me to refocus on myself and begin to feel better about me. I am doing affirmations again, telling myself I love myself, trying to eat better, taking Champix to quit smoking again (I had quit when I met him but the night I found out he cheated I started again, taking vitamins, trying to eat better, and drinking more water. I really need to shift my focus back to myself and what I want and need and start giving that to myself. I have spent so long focused on him, what he is doing, who he is with, and anxiously wondering what women he is texting, emailing, calling etc that I have had no time to focus on loving me.

[seektruth]

I agree with Phoebe that NC for now is a good idea as it will give you time to clear your head and think more clearly.  NC is NOT meant as a form of punishment to our pwBPD, but it is more about protecting ourselves.  Just something to consider... .

The sadness and loneliness you feel is totally normal.  Detachment is a process not an event.  Give yourself lots of time.  It sounds like you've taken some very important steps in self-care just keep going!