To forgive infidelity or not after a somewhat voluntary disclosure

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Whether or not to forgive infidelity is a personal decision, but there is one thing in my case I could use some other opinions on.

I found out that my wife was cheating when I read her messages. That was the first time in 8 years I had every done something like that, and only because I had gotten very suspicious. Most of the messages were somewhat harmless flirting. Even reading those hurt at the time, but now I have dealt with much more. The one that confirmed my suspicion was one from her telling the affair partner that it feels wrong at so many levels.

When I confronted my wife, she initially denied it, then in many stages over many days, she told the truth a bit by bit :-

1. just friends

2. he made a pass at me once, but nothing happened

3. we have been kissing

4. we were physical - had oral sex, but the other guy refused to go any further

This took around 3 months. Before 4, I was still digging for truth. After that, I just didn't care whether they went further or not. It didn't matter. I just went numb to finding out more... decided to wait 3 more months before I made any decision.

The thing is she could have stopped at any moment and insisted that that is all that happened, and I am trusting enough to have believed it. It might have left some doubt in my mind, I don't know. So I told myself that this bit of honesty means something. I should not punish her for that.

Now after finding out about BPD, I question that. Was she telling me the whole (?) truth because she knows how much I value honesty, and she figured out this will work with me? Was she telling me more because she was hoping that I will decide to end the marriage instead of her and so making her feel less guilty?

Any insight on what I should make of this kind of voluntary disclosure?

[A Dad]

Whether or not to forgive infidelity is a personal decision, but there is one thing in my case I could use some other opinions on.

I found out that my wife was cheating when I read her messages. That was the first time in 8 years I had every done something like that, and only because I had gotten very suspicious. Most of the messages were somewhat harmless flirting. Even reading those hurt at the time, but now I have dealt with much more. The one that confirmed my suspicion was one from her telling the affair partner that it feels wrong at so many levels.

When I confronted my wife, she initially denied it, then in many stages over many days, she told the truth a bit by bit :-

1. just friends

2. he made a pass at me once, but nothing happened

3. we have been kissing

4. we were physical - had oral sex, but the other guy refused to go any further

This took around 3 months. Before 4, I was still digging for truth. After that, I just didn't care whether they went further or not. It didn't matter. I just went numb to finding out more... decided to wait 3 more months before I made any decision.

The thing is she could have stopped at any moment and insisted that that is all that happened, and I am trusting enough to have believed it. It might have left some doubt in my mind, I don't know. So I told myself that this bit of honesty means something. I should not punish her for that.

Now after finding out about BPD, I question that. Was she telling me the whole (?) truth because she knows how much I value honesty, and she figured out this will work with me? Was she telling me more because she was hoping that I will decide to end the marriage instead of her and so making her feel less guilty?

Any insight on what I should make of this kind of voluntary disclosure?

[A Dad]

Just to add a little bit. Infidelity was always a deal-breaker for me. Until it happened! When faced with making that decision with two young children involved, I think I just might have been able to get past it.

What pushed me more to the "leaving" end was that her words and actions showed that she clearly was not "in love" with me. And she was clearly missing the other guy. She was sorry for causing me pain, but I didn't think she was sorry for what she did. It felt like she almost felt entitled to this "relief" because she was in so much pain. And then she told me to stop moping and be happy. I didn't get time or freedom to process my grief. After weeks/months of living like that, I slowly started to give up my love for her too. Now I am at a stage where I could walk away if I wanted, but thinking about staying together for the sake of the kids and honestly so I don't have to go looking for someone new again, and treating this as a new relationship/arrangement even if my marriage as I knew it is dead.

[waverider]

It comes down to how you feel deep down. The only truth you have is that you will never know the real truth. Even if you did you would never real know whether to believe it or not.

Either way these are just the nuts and bots of it. It may take a while before you really know how deep the scars run. A pwBPD who confesses to this sort of thing will put it behind them far quicker than you will, and this may cause you resentment. Infidelity is also a barrier once crossed that is more readily crossed in the future, especially for someone with low levels of empathy

[A Dad]

A pwBPD who confesses to this sort of thing will put it behind them far quicker than you will, and this may cause you resentment.

OMG this is very insightful of you.

This has already happened. She cried, felt guilty and terrible for a couple of days, and then a few days later is wondering why I am not over it already! How can she not see what a big deal it was? It made no sense to me until I found out about (B)PD.

[A Dad]

Infidelity is also a barrier once crossed that is more readily crossed in the future, especially for someone with low levels of empathy

This is something I wonder about too.

She says that she will never hurt me so badly ever again. But not that she will never do it ever again because it is just plain wrong.

And I am really starting to question the empathy part too. She is very kind to people, her family, cousins, nephews and nieces. And I took that as a sign that she is very caring deep inside. But being caring, and having empathy are not the same things. More and more I feel that she just doesn't get what I am going through, how I am feeling, and to me that indicates a distinct lack of empathy.

In contrast, when I found out about her affair, in addition to my hurt, the first thought in my head was that I must have really hurt her for her to do this? and I tried really hard to put myself in her shoes, and almost forgave her for a while.

[Scout99]

Infidelity is also a barrier once crossed that is more readily crossed in the future, especially for someone with low levels of empathy

This is something I wonder about too.

She says that she will never hurt me so badly ever again. But not that she will never do it ever again because it is just plain wrong.

And I am really starting to question the empathy part too. She is very kind to people, her family, cousins, nephews and nieces. And I took that as a sign that she is very caring deep inside. But being caring, and having empathy are not the same things. More and more I feel that she just doesn't get what I am going through, how I am feeling, and to me that indicates a distinct lack of empathy.

In contrast, when I found out about her affair, in addition to my hurt, the first thought in my head was that I must have really hurt her for her to do this? and I tried really hard to put myself in her shoes, and almost forgave her for a while.

True showing care does not necessarily equal empathy... .

When caring for family members or friends there is usually some kind of reward in the other end... . That pople may think well of you or grant you favors because of it... . In short caring brings validation... .

However showing empathy for you when she is the cause of your pain is not validating her... . That would instead make her feel bad, and being BPD she will by all means necessary try to avoid getting to that place... .

I am so sorry for you having to go through all this, and especially for the many conflicting emotions that comes with it... . But like others have said... . Give it some time and allow yourself to look at the situation from different perspectives... . You will get to the point where you will know what to do... .  

Best Wishes

Scout99

[Saffron2]

In contrast, when I found out about her affair, in addition to my hurt, the first thought in my head was that I must have really hurt her for her to do this? and I tried really hard to put myself in her shoes, and almost forgave her for a while.

I can tell you with almost 100% certainty that her affair has nothing to do with you.  You could be the best looking, most successful, most loving guy who happens to be all but a porn star in bed, and she would still cheat. She did it because of what is missing within her, nothing more, nothing less.

This has already happened. She cried, felt guilty and terrible for a couple of days, and then a few days later is wondering why I am not over it already! How can she not see what a big deal it was? It made no sense to me until I found out about (B)PD.

Same here.  My H did all of these above, then really sits here wondering why I can't "get over it". Maybe I would if he'd ever stop having affairs!

And by the way, on the surface, this is one of the nicest guys one could ever hope to meet.  He is extraordinarily kind to others, going out of his way to do nice things for people... . He will occasionally become wracked with guilt because of the way he treats me, and for a while can be nice to me as well, but this is more of the exception than the rule.

[A Dad]

Thanks guys.

I will be trying to see a therapist for myself soon. Hopefully that will help me further in coming to terms with this, and do the right thing for my family and children.

[MaybeSo]

In an otherwise more normal relationship, with no PD, an affair can be healed with lots of work and maturity.

If you have an immature partner (pwBPD) I think the prognosis is not good.

In my case,

There's been a lack of emotional memory ( can't take past mistakes and learn from them going forward into the future, though there is short lived remorse)

There was a horrific lack of empathy about how this affects a partner; this was worse than the hurt of the initial betrayal

Repetition compulsion; in my case, ex repeats the behavior over and over and over again, no matter how many epiphanies or how much hurt it causes. He needs validation and attention (romantic) from additional sources and can't stop even when he appears to try, it feels similar to an addiction.

For these reasons, I think it's very difficult to move forward, unless the partner is willing to accept that this will happen if they stay in the relationship, and just detach from it when it does.

[nevaeh]

In contrast, when I found out about her affair, in addition to my hurt, the first thought in my head was that I must have really hurt her for her to do this? and I tried really hard to put myself in her shoes, and almost forgave her for a while.

I can tell you with almost 100% certainty that her affair has nothing to do with you.  You could be the best looking, most successful, most loving guy who happens to be all but a porn star in bed, and she would still cheat. She did it because of what is missing within her, nothing more, nothing less.

This has already happened. She cried, felt guilty and terrible for a couple of days, and then a few days later is wondering why I am not over it already! How can she not see what a big deal it was? It made no sense to me until I found out about (B)PD.

Same here.  My H did all of these above, then really sits here wondering why I can't "get over it". Maybe I would if he'd ever stop having affairs!

And by the way, on the surface, this is one of the nicest guys one could ever hope to meet.  He is extraordinarily kind to others, going out of his way to do nice things for people... . He will occasionally become wracked with guilt because of the way he treats me, and for a while can be nice to me as well, but this is more of the exception than the rule.

Ditto... . ditto... . ditto

My uBPDh has had several affairs as well, although the last I knew about was 8 years ago and he knows that if he ever crosses that line again I am gone with no questions asked.

When I found out about the affair, H did not disclose, I busted him.  He was apologetic and horrified and guilt-ridden and crying for several days probably because I told him I was leaving.  Seeing those antics I guess "tricked" me into thinking he loved me that much that he didn't want me to leave.  However, he DID get over his affair much quicker than I did.  I actually remember him saying to me that maybe one day he and I and his mistress and her husband could all be friends.  I was dumbfounded by that comment and I'm sure an argument resulted from that comment.  During my recovery from his affair he also made comments about the fact that I needed to just "get past it". 

It took me a long time to realize that H's affair really didn't have anything to do with me.  He was deployed to Iraq with the Air Force and had the affair with his commanding officer (he was a major at the time, she was a Lt Colonel).  I realized, especially after reading about BPD, that he NEEDED to have someone to be close to and since I wasn't there she was the next best thing.  He thought he loved her because she filled a deep need that he had.  It didn't take the hurt away to understand all of this, but it at least made me realize that the affair wasn't a result of my own deficiencies.

The comment regarding resentment applies to me, especially in regards to his BPD traits.  H may give me the silent treatment after one of his rages for 2-3 weeks and then come home one day and be fine.  I feel like a normal couple, after a fight, would step away for a few hours at most then discuss the disagreement and both apologize for their behavior.  With my H, we have the fight (usually the result of him starting a rage over something stupid) and then he implements the silent treatment for days.  I am left waiting for resolution.  I actually get MORE mad the longer the silent treatment goes on and then the day he decides to get over it he pretends like nothing ever happened.  There is RARELY an apology or acknowledgement that he reacted poorly.  This has caused what I consider to be an unhealthy amount of resentment towards him... . so much so that it has caused considerably more damage to our marriage than his affairs ever did.

My H is a "great" guy to anyone outside of our home. He is friendly and funny and helpful.  No one would probably guess that he is such an a$$ at home.  I have actually seen him rage at home then immediately go out in public and act like he is the greatest guy in the world.  It is kind of scary how he can change his persona like that.

[Whichwayisup]

Hi Adad,

Just wanted to let you know how eerily similar my situation is to yours, I sensed things were getting stranger and a dysregulation continued longer than in the past... . unbeknown to me she was already sleeping with someone else(which she inexplicably denied for 7 weeks and swore on the lives of our family).  I checked her phone (for the one occasion in our 13 year relationship and had suspicions confirmed- it was also, I had thought, a deal breaker for me) and we separated after I told her not to come back to the house... . the trust is gone four months down the line and we are tryin to co-parent and both going through counselling.

On the positive side, she has since divulged everything and I know deep down she hadn't done it before - but I cannot get images out of my mind no matter what - the only thing I can do is give it time until I decide a longer term strategy, it's hard, make no mistake, I want to believe she is capable of change and she has started well by going to counselling, but other little behaviours remind me what I couldn’t see in the past... . Love is there, but love is (realistically) not enough (I used to think it was).

She has reasoned that she needed emotional support as I wasn't there for her... . I kept a log during that time and could recite the instances I asked her if he wanted to talk and every morning wished her to have a good day - It doesn't make sense to us cos it doesn't make sense in reality.  Resentment comes and goes through me, as do good and bad emotions, ride the waves until it settles I guess... .

Stay strong mate and know you are not going crazy, not on your own and as you already point out, not to blame.

Whichwayisup

[A Dad]

In an otherwise more normal relationship, with no PD, an affair can be healed with lots of work and maturity.

If you have an immature partner (pwBPD) I think the prognosis is not good.

In my case,

There's been a lack of emotional memory ( can't take past mistakes and learn from them going forward into the future, though there is short lived remorse)

There was a horrific lack of empathy about how this affects a partner; this was worse than the hurt of the initial betrayal

Maybe so,

All of that sounds so familiar.

My SO promises that she will never hurt me like this again, but I can only believe she can keep that promise as long as I am making constant efforts to keep her happy. Any time I am not able to do so, maybe because I am going through a bad time myself or focussing on some other goal or going through a crisis, I believe she will do it again if there is another shoulder to cry on within reach. The question I ask myself is do I want to live like that? Do I not deserve better? How much more I can do with my life if I had somebody I can really rely on to be and adult?

[A Dad]

My uBPDh has had several affairs as well, although the last I knew about was 8 years ago and he knows that if he ever crosses that line again I am gone with no questions asked.

... . 

It took me a long time to realize that H's affair really didn't have anything to do with me.

Me too, nevaeh. Accepting this has gone way past the boundaries that I believe in. If it happens another time, I am definitely going. My kids who are now 1.5 and 3.5 y will be older... if we didn't have any children, I would have been gone now.

I also was wrecked with guilt... first considering it all my fault, then thinking ok may be not all, but a lot of it was my fault. Thinking about all the things I could have done better or right, and they would have served as an investment in the relationship, and would have kept this from happening during this difficult phase in our marriage (finding out our child is autistic).

But after learning about (B)PD, I realized that, sure I could have done things better, but this was not caused by me. Thankfully, I was able to reach this place within a few months. The downside is that I realize that all last 8 years of my relationship were not what I thought they were ... I see effects of PD going all the way back .

[A Dad]

Hi Adad,

Just wanted to let you know how eerily similar my situation is to yours, I sensed things were getting stranger and a dysregulation continued longer than in the past... . unbeknown to me she was already sleeping with someone else(which she inexplicably denied for 7 weeks and swore on the lives of our family).  I checked her phone (for the one occasion in our 13 year relationship and had suspicions confirmed- it was also, I had thought, a deal breaker for me) and we separated after I told her not to come back to the house... . the trust is gone four months down the line and we are tryin to co-parent and both going through counselling.

On the positive side, she has since divulged everything and I know deep down she hadn't done it before - but I cannot get images out of my mind no matter what - the only thing I can do is give it time until I decide a longer term strategy, it's hard, make no mistake, I want to believe she is capable of change and she has started well by going to counselling, but other little behaviours remind me what I couldn’t see in the past... . Love is there, but love is (realistically) not enough (I used to think it was).

She has reasoned that she needed emotional support as I wasn't there for her... . I kept a log during that time and could recite the instances I asked her if he wanted to talk and every morning wished her to have a good day - It doesn't make sense to us cos it doesn't make sense in reality.  Resentment comes and goes through me, as do good and bad emotions, ride the waves until it settles I guess... .

Stay strong mate and know you are not going crazy, not on your own and as you already point out, not to blame.

Whichwayisup

Oh wow! We are in exactly the same relationship.

Perhaps the only difference is that I am guilty of having been cutting her off emotionally because I had my hands full dealing with my son's autism diagnosis, and I just didn't have more to give to an adult acting like a child at times. But for me that was a temporary phase, and we were going to get past it...

We haven't separated yet... but in my mind, my marriage, my life time commitment is definitely over. I still love her dearly but I am looking at our relationship with new eyes and realizing that it wasn't as great as I had made myself believe.

I guess one good thing that came out of her having an affair is that I learned about PDs. Otherwise, I would have gone through life believing this is all there is. Never knowing why things were the way they were in spite of all the good intentions. Now, either she goes to therapy and start fixing herself (same for me) and we can be happier and have a more fulfilling relationship for however long we stay together. Or I will be able to leave and live my life again, try to find love again knowing in my heart that it wasn't me who abandoned her.

The other good thing that came out of this for me personally was a wake up call - marriage is not forever, family can go away at any time. I had put my life on hold thinking that is what I needed to do the best for my family and my children. But now I am reclaiming parts of my life from before this relationship. My biggest passion in life was martial arts. I am going back to gym and training again. Two times a week at the moment, and plan to do more over the next years. If we stay together, that is one thing she will have to accept and let me do. Until now, my marriage had made me feel special because I believed she trusted me as much as I did (100%). Now I know I was wrong to have trusted her so much, and she has told me that she never trusted me that way. So I go back to the other things that made me special ... I will not have an ordinary life!

[A Dad]

On the positive side, she has since divulged everything and I know deep down she hadn't done it before

This is actually the reason I started this thread.

The messages I found on her phone showed something was going on, but I didn't know the details.

Over the next few weeks, she disclosed everything but she could have stopped at any time and said that is all that happened, and I would have believed it.

What do you make of this kind of honesty?

In the past, I would have thought that being honest should be rewarded and it is a sign of goodness in her heart. But now looking at it through BPD lenses, I really wonder why she was honest? Because she knows how much value I put on it (mirroring)?

or was she trying to get me to decide to leave so that she won't have to feel guilty? I feel certain that she would have left me if we didn't have kids together. One thing I appreciate is that she did support me in the first few days when I was really really broken, but soon after she started to make me feel bad about myself... she said that she is just being honest and telling me what she thinks, but I wonder if she was just manipulating me into saying that I want to end it.

[slimmiller]

Just to add a little bit. Infidelity was always a deal-breaker for me. Until it happened! When faced with making that decision with two young children involved, I think I just might have been able to get past it.

What pushed me more to the "leaving" end was that her words and actions showed that she clearly was not "in love" with me. And she was clearly missing the other guy. She was sorry for causing me pain, but I didn't think she was sorry for what she did. It felt like she almost felt entitled to this "relief" because she was in so much pain. And then she told me to stop moping and be happy. I didn't get time or freedom to process my grief. After weeks/months of living like that, I slowly started to give up my love for her too. Now I am at a stage where I could walk away if I wanted, but thinking about staying together for the sake of the kids and honestly so I don't have to go looking for someone new again, and treating this as a new relationship/arrangement even if my marriage as I knew it is dead.

This sounds exactly like me. :'(

Your story in and of itself sounds like mine. I went a step further and bugged our computer and saw all the sordid chats and lies and then she continued to lie and does to this day because she has no idea what all I know.

Another thing you pointed out is her promise to 'never hurt you' again or like that. Words are basically just 'mental masturbation' coming from a BPD. They completely lack any core values and therefore are kind of like a computer thats not actually linked to other computers. The computer has a virus but dont know it because theres no anti-virus on it. So therefor there is no base line with them to reason with.

I have found that remorse, or an attempt at it, is only her trying to avoid pain. Most folks can have to ability to be genuinely sorry but PDs are generally just sorry if their behaviour is challanged and they are facing a loss. Like you leaving her and she will no longer have the security that she had before. Mine balled her eyes out for 10 minutes when I told her I wanted a divorce. I asked why and she said,' I dont have a job, how will I support myself.' Guess that was irrevelant when she decided to drive two hours and flop down in a college dorm room with a foreign exchange student half my age

I actually gave up on the marriage only once I learned about BPD. I decided then that her actions and behaviours are too much of a choice since she refused (and to this day) to get help and counseling. Its still all my fault.  The fact that theres no real ownership on her part, there is nothing to work with

Sorry for what you are going through especially with kids involved. Mine are a few years older but its still hard.

Also the counseling will help you to kind of clear your head

[Whichwayisup]

On the positive side, she has since divulged everything and I know deep down she hadn't done it before

What do you make of this kind of honesty?

I defer to anyone else who has been in similar straits?  I have gone from the extreme of her introducing the new fella to my three kids to being told by her that she didn't know what she was thinking and should never have done that to a completely unexpected  breakdown and admitting severe personal childhood physical and mental trauma and that she has felt this way all he life.

This kind of honesty (I was led to believe such admissions weren't possible)  - I do not believe this is manipulation in my situation, but a severely deep rooted inability to hold a sense of self, in those moments, she wanted to tell me everything, and did... . the issue as I perceive it means the condition see-saws her emotions and reality. 

For example for the last few days she has been distant and non-communicative with me.  I have in turn been recognising that she is filling her time with contact with her friends and keeping busy - not undertaking self-help in the way I have done and thought she might.  I feel somewhat in limbo given that she is undertaking counselling through Occ. Health at work but still awaiting formal medical referral (I'm banking on this providing access to DBT, anything less will not satisfy my needs for the future but this is taking much longer than I had hoped due to non-emergency and threadbare support.

At the risk of getting slightly off topic, I’m struggling with the enlightened honesty because it’s surely easier to continue living the other life in denial? – in facing up to this, she has acknowledged her lies to friends, family, even the children as she had told our 16yr old son (who blamed me for asking her to leave) that she made a huge mistake.  She has even told me that there was absolutely nothing I could have done to change things from happening, I too cannot fathom how the turnaround has come about, and can’t it switch just as quickly? – my wife is adamant that she will live apart at my request for us both to get help as long as it takes, even if it’s years… I can’t understand, much less think past the trust issues… she has started wearing a commitment ring I gave her from before our engagement as a sign that she wants us to work out.

The perverse thing for me, is that the only two behaviours she hadn’t exhibited when I found out about BPD was suicide idealisation and infidelity, in a weird way I can understand better than her why she was unfaithful – doesn’t make it hurt any less cos deep down I didn’t expect it but saw it on the periphery… had I not known about BPD, I don’t think I would be even willing to try… I know it’s not something she consciously chose to do… it was a self-fulfilling subconscious destructive act to force me away. Buit she also knows that for me, once is a mistake, any more is  a pattern I will not accept.

You are indeed right that we can learn from this, I am so much more aware of PD’s, appropriate responses, my own neediness and recognition that I don’t actually “need” anyone to be happy.  This hurts and I have given myself a timeframe of the end of the year to make a decision on whether I have the energy to continue.   I’ve enjoyed changing my perception of other women, I too had allowed myself to be a bit of a wet blanket and people pleased too much, seeing that not all women are the same is a revelation –can I get my emotional needs met elsewhere if not by my wife…we’ll see… I’m also trying to make baby steps in removing myself from upsetting scenarios rather than attempt to justify from a pent up-position…  and recognising lots of the unhealthy traits in so many other people.

As many others can’t face up to this kind of honesty (from other posts), it’s a positive sign, but in my mind, I need to protect myself much more than I ever thought in the past, yes I was complacent thinking we had something which didn’t require as much effort.  Some days I think it can never work out, other good days I think we at least have deep rooted love/connection, living apart is helping that therapeutic separation element.  I guess in any relationship there’s no guarantees, can we get enough out of the relationship to keep us meaningful?

I’m just as unsure as anyone at the moment – time is my friend at the moment, no hurry to determine anything and be ok with it.

Honestly feel alone at times, great to compare notes to keep my sane! 

Whichwayisup

[Whichwayisup]

I actually gave up on the marriage only once I learned about BPD. I decided then that her actions and behaviours are too much of a choice since she refused (and to this day) to get help and counselling. Its still all my fault.  The fact that there’s no real ownership on her part, there is nothing to work with

Thanks Slimmiller,

I really appreciate your feedback,

To be clear, if my wife had not acknowledged her symptoms and sought help, there's no chance I would even leave the door open to reconciliation.  I have postponed mediation and the divorce (she has already been served papers) but the only reason is that she has provided an option that wasn't previously on my radar, that she might be able to face up to things - if she's not or I decide it's no longer for me either, we continue with divorce... .

My wife is high functioning and earns a good wage, extremely rarely misses a day’s work and tells me that she cannot go on living with the thoughts she has, she has started CBT.   I honestly think it will be too much for her to face but we do have something to work with – I’m just not sure if it’s enough combined.  It’s a lot of individual and combined change… I am merely trying to recharge my batteries and didn't realise how low they had become.

Whichwayisup

[Validation78]

Hey adad and all!

Sounds like you are getting some great words of wisdom here, and much food for thought. I especially liked Scout's comments about the difference between empathy and being a caring person. That really makes perfect sense!

I do want to add something, since your question is about forgiveness. It's an issue I have worked very hard on, and slowly am coming to terms with. We can forgive, actually, IMHO, must forgive others for the wrongs done. The simple fact is, forgiveness is a gift to ourselves. We do not have to get anything from the other person. We don't need their permission, approval, acceptance. It's totally personal, and totally freeing. It doesn't come all at once either. It is a process that if you work on, you can achieve. That being said, it doesn't mean you have to forget the matter, and stay around if you choose not to. It really takes a weight off of your shoulders. Whether or not you will be able to trust her again is a whole other matter, and a very personal choice!

Best Wishes,

Val78

[A Dad]

This sounds exactly like me. :'(

Your story in and of itself sounds like mine. I went a step further and bugged our computer and saw all the sordid chats and lies and then she continued to lie and does to this day because she has no idea what all I know.

... .

Mine balled her eyes out for 10 minutes when I told her I wanted a divorce. I asked why and she said,' I dont have a job, how will I support myself.'

...

I actually gave up on the marriage only once I learned about BPD. I decided then that her actions and behaviours are too much of a choice since she refused (and to this day) to get help and counseling. Its still all my fault.  The fact that theres no real ownership on her part, there is nothing to work with

Yes I am also keeping tabs on everything now. I can't keep doing that forever, but for now I am not able to let my guard down. But so far, I have found her to be truthful about where she has been during the day, who she spoke with etc. For me, this was one of my biggest losses. From being completely trusting, never questioning where she had been or who with, I have gone to the opposite extreme. I don't think I will ever be able to trust anyone that completely again. I console myself that this is like growing up, the trust I had before was the trust of a child who for example believes that her parents will never hurt her. Any trust I develop going forward will be that of an adult. A loss of innocence, but that is life.

The second part is so true... when I brought up the possibility of separation, her question was how are we going to manage? where is she going to stay? etc. And of course she doesn't think she can handle both our little ones by herself. I can and I was the bad dad, go figure.

For me too, learning about BPD was a turning point. One the one hand, it made easier to forgive her. On the other hand, I have to be realistic about what our marriage will be like if we stayed together. Before that I had only been reading about how to recover from affairs etc., and coming to the conclusion that if we can fix ourselves and be happier together than we have ever been before, then I could finally get over the affair and accept it as a bump in the road. But now with awareness of PDs, that future does not look so certain.

[A Dad]

Honestly feel alone at times, great to compare notes to keep my sane! 

Whichwayisup

Hang in there mate. At least we have our eyes open now. It could have been much worse.

See if you can find someone in real life to talk to as well. I have been talking to a colleague of mine who found out his wife was having an affair when their child was only a few months old, and they subsequently divorced. The first time I talked with him was like a weight lifting from me. Feeling that somebody knows what I am going through. Feel free to send me a message anytime you want to compare notes 

[A Dad]

I do want to add something, since your question is about forgiveness. It's an issue I have worked very hard on, and slowly am coming to terms with. We can forgive, actually, IMHO, must forgive others for the wrongs done. The simple fact is, forgiveness is a gift to ourselves. We do not have to get anything from the other person. We don't need their permission, approval, acceptance. It's totally personal, and totally freeing. It doesn't come all at once either. It is a process that if you work on, you can achieve. That being said, it doesn't mean you have to forget the matter, and stay around if you choose not to. It really takes a weight off of your shoulders. Whether or not you will be able to trust her again is a whole other matter, and a very personal choice!

Best Wishes,

Val78

Thanks Val78.

I think I am pretty far along on the way to forgiveness.

Just yesterday, she was in blues because the affair partner has a new girlfriend and there goes her one hope of fixing her life Never mind that she has had same hopes every time she entered a relationship in the past. I let her be, and even tried to comfort her. She is in her own private hell. I don't hate her or want her to hurt.

The big question in front of me is to decide how I want to live the rest of my life and what is the best thing I can do for my kids. Along the way, if I can help her heal, I will be happy to.

Already have an appointment with a psychologist in two weeks time. Hope to have some clarity in the coming months.

[popeye6031]

Hi adad,

Tough decsions there, hope it works out for you whatever decisions you take.  I have recently found out that (through others) that my fiance cheated many times on me, including sleeping with a number of guys (saw a picture of her kissing a guy 4 weeks after got engaged).  Once I confronted her about it she completely denied everything and insisted she was just dancnig closely with the guy in the picture.  But she showed so much remorse for what she claimed was just a dance.  In my gut I know what the people said is true and withing a day of confronting her I decided to forgive her but really I this is the start of the end for me.  One of the first things I did was change my FB password since she checked it 24 hours a day and quizzed about every activity I do there, controls who I add, blocks people, changes my profile pics, adds pics etc etc. 

So changing the password was something she agreed to straight away when I found out about her infidelities.  But 24 hours had not even past before she wanted to know my new password.  I point blank refused and stuck to my guns until she shut up.  Again last night she demanded the password and again I have said no and this is how things are from now, that I am not letting her control my life anymore.  My point of telling you this was to agree with you on how easily they move on, while you sit mulling over it.  No empathy at all.

Now after finding out about BPD, I question that. Was she telling me the whole (?) truth because she knows how much I value honesty, and she figured out this will work with me? Was she telling me more because she was hoping that I will decide to end the marriage instead of her and so making her feel less guilty?

To give an answer to this question adad you could be right or else she was divulging the information to see how much she could tell you and still have you forgive and stay with her.  So, if you can hear all this and still accept her then you validate her and her failures. Also means that she thinks she will be able to get away with anything else she might get up to.

Can anyone tellme how you take snippets from previous postings like you all have done in the little blue boxes?

[popeye6031]

l

[A Dad]

... .

or else she was divulging the information to see how much she could tell you and still have you forgive and stay with her.  So, if you can hear all this and still accept her then you validate her and her failures. Also means that she thinks she will be able to get away with anything else she might get up to.

Can anyone tellme how you take snippets from previous postings like you all have done in the little blue boxes?

Good point, popeye.

I hadn't thought of that as an attempt to test the boundaries. It is possible, although I think she did it to lessen her own guilt.

Later she did say how foolish she is to tell the truth, and her friends always told her that she doesn't have to tell everything. I didn't pick on it at that time, but remembered it later and was thinking... so that is the kind of friends you had, with that kind of morals!

btw My SO used to jokingly call me popeye because back then I was quite athletic with pretty big forearms for my size, ouch!

[A Dad]

Can anyone tellme how you take snippets from previous postings like you all have done in the little blue boxes?

Use the Quote button at the top right, just right to the message subject Best place to find out how the various features work is Questions About How the Message Board Works board - https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=3.0

[MaybeSo]

Adad

Yes, the questions come down to what you can live with.

Do you deserve better?

Well yes, of course. But I try to steer away from those kinds of questions.

Our partners have a disorder. They deserve better, too. But life dealt them this hand, and now life has dealt you a difficult hand, too.

Can you live within the contraints and limitations of this disorder, and find ways within it, to be satisfied and get needs met and make meaning of your life?

If the answer is no that's very valid.

For some, it's yes. A rocky path for sure, but also valid.

[popeye6031]

... .

It is possible, although I think she did it to lessen her own guilt.

Later she did say how foolish she is to tell the truth, and her friends always told her that she doesn't have to tell everything. I didn't pick on it at that time, but remembered it later and was thinking... so that is the kind of friends you had, with that kind of morals!

btw My SO used to jokingly call me popeye because back then I was quite athletic with pretty big forearms for my size, ouch!

I must say I am surprised yrou wife felt guilty for so long. That guilt my gf feels last exactly to the point where I decide to let things go.  After that, completely forgotten about from her side.

And snap on the nickname. I workout out quite a lot and got called it by rugby mates for having big arms.

Many thanks for the info on the quoting, tho now I am quoting everything. Have to read the link.

[Whichwayisup]

Later she did say how foolish she is to tell the truth,

Simply too many similarities!  I had to prise the information out of my wife, she wouldn’t admit the affair for 10 weeks and it made me look paranoid and over-reactive (to the point that her parents won't have anything to do with me-even tho she has since confessed to them! I will not be seeking their company in future-lesson learned).  She told me bits, then when I questioned by telling her my gut didn't believe it, she opened up further, told me a little more until she broke down and confessed all, I told her I don't care how bad it was but I need to know the truth.  eg. she said she initially met him for coffee- but knowing about the use of sex, I thought it odd... . only later did she confess to sleeping with him from the outset - difficult to hear, but it perversely made more sense to me and I could understand.  Leaves the bitter aftertaste of no longer knowing when she will mislead me now - seems to be choosing not to tell me things rather than outright lie to me; my response is now to ask questions first rather than assume but I don’t know how much awareness she has –that’s our next topic of discussion.

and her friends always told her that she doesn't have to tell everything. I didn't pick on it at that time, but remembered it later and was thinking... so that is the kind of friends you had, with that kind of morals!

One of my main issues at the moment is the company she keeps, a "best friend" who actively encouraged her affair and wrecking her marriage and is a good time girl who loves drama; I have told my wife I don't wanna hear her name being spoken never mind see photos of them together, yet can I control who she sees? Isn’t that the co-dependent traits I'm trying to break - where's the balance to be had... . my wife meets her on an almost daily basis and I cannot understand that she can’t see this other side (this friend is supposedly a childhood best friend and they have grown up together yet she was not mentioned during the first 12 years of our relationship… I predict she’ll be painted black within a few months from now… (do I sit on the sidelines until healthier ways are learned?)

I suspect they are drawn to similarly troubled and erratic friends and move on from others – one word of warning tho, I came to realise that she had dysregulated so much that some innocuous instances were forgotten; seemingly harmless things, like me going to get a haircut the weekend I found out had been forgotten and details that were in the lurid messages; she had literally no recollection of… almost schizophrenic in nature.  I do not blame her for the frustration I came to feel, she simply had no awareness and a lack of control. As for forgiveness, I pointed out that she hasn’t sought forgiveness from me, she reasoned that she knows she doesn’t deserve to be forgiven for what she has done, I don’ feel ready to contemplate what it is and what it involves.  I’m trying to balance being supportive with not taking on the issues myself.  Whilst I am speaking with a general counsellor – I think there’s intricacies in BPD that others simply don’t understand… that’s why I’m fortunate to have found this site… heaven knows what I would have done without all your support…

Whichwayisup

[Chunk Palumbo]

Though all other unfaithful girlfriends were kicked to the curb immediately, I forgave mine. I felt that she was mature enough to work it out, and I really, really loved her.

Initially, she didn't want to accept my forgiveness and showed signs of remorse, saying that she ruined everything and couldn't understand why I still loved her. As a weeks went by, she said that too much damage had been done to repair it.

I took that and found someone else. Then she started going between wanting me back and showing me pictures of her kissing another guy (the guy after the guy she cheated on me with). She now hates both of these men and the relationship she has with me is still topsy-turvy.

To this day, I'm not sure if I should've walked away as soon as finding out. I guess I have my own abandonment issues concerning her.