The Wild One

[Chunk Palumbo]

On the internet for as long as I can recall, long posts have the tendency to go unanswered. So for the sake of time and length, I'll present my story in its grossly edited form.

I was a man with a lot of women in my life; of varying ages, occupations, personalities, and proportions. Though always possessing a healthy balance of male and female friends, during the latest of my teens and the earliest of my twenties, the number of females I began to date and form relationships with - be them romantic or purely sexual - began to multiply at an alarming rate.

Somewhere along that golden twenty-something road, however, I was struck by an abrupt and rather poignant change of heart; the Game was stale and unfulfilling. You see, by this time in my life I'd been involved with so many women, in such a steady succession, that though I still loved the opposite sex, I nearly burned out on extra-platonical relationships altogether.

Always one to self-medicate, I set about the arduous task of rebuilding myself. Not only emotionally, but concerning my lifestyle, ambitions, and overall philosophy. And while it wasn't the simplest of walks in the park, my standing and stability in life saw a clear and dramatic improvement. All of a sudden, my smile was back. My mind was lively and sharp. I excuded the very confidence I was convinced I'd lost forever. It was time to re-enter the Relationship Arena.

I had fun with five women - proceeding the aforementioned decision - in the space of one-and-a-half years. Each one of these women were beautiful and attractive in their own individual rights. But is was during this time that I became friends with someone who stood heads and shoulders above the rest. The uniqueness of her persona didn't immediately capture me, but it was right off the bat that I knew something was different about her.

The woman and I began to talk, and I enjoyed we enjoyed each other's conversation. Both being involved with other people at the time, though we inevitably grew closer, our interactions never once strayed into any form of romanticism. On my side, aside her being too young for my tastes initially, I was far too busy with other women to pay her regard in that fashion. And I assumed the same of her, in the sense of being involved with another. We spoke for three hours, twice a week.

One week, she disappears. A week turned into a month, which became three months, which transformed into a year. Throughout the entire disappearance, I maybe contacted her once via email. It was probably six montths-in, short and funny, and wondering what happened to her, to which there was no reply. I completely forget about it.

Three months later, I receive an email from her explaining that she was going through old emails and came across mine. My prior relationship experience permitted me to be wary of this kind of happenstance, but I played along anyway and accepted the humour.

From then on, the friendship was re-ignited and it blossomed into something even brighter and more colourful than before. We flirted, shared our lives, hopes, dreams, and time. In was within this time she confessed that the reason for her previous disappearance was due to the feelings she was beginning to develop toward me. Again, due to my experience, I didn't really believe she was telling the truth, inwardly.

Soon after this, though things were continuing rather swimmingly, she made the confession that she was falling for me. Again, in my mind, I couldn't see the logic behind reappearing after a lengthy disappearance, only to fall for someone after such a limited amount of time. I shared this idea with her - without telling her I had experienced such red flags before - and she broke down crying, saying she didn't understand. She did this for a solid two weeks.

I saw this as potential victim role-playing, but in all honesty, by this time I'd began to care about her and her life, just not enough to fall for her.

The conversations and contact continued, to my surprise. I was so certain she'd up and leave after the rejection as many women did, but she stuck at being a friend to me. It really elevated my alreadly ascending opinion of her. And soon, I did begin to actually fall for her. I made her aware of this, and we began a relationship.

[insert the normal BPD stage-by-stage relationship process for the sake of length].

She kissed another man. And though it rocked the relationship and rocked the hell out of me, we eventually stopped fighting to talk it through maturely and, after she apologised, decided to put it behind us.

Things were going well. But three weeks or so later, she says the man she kissed (I'll call him George henceforth), will be in her town to see his relatives. I go against it, totally and with no wavering. And typically, she attempted to turn it into being about me trying to control who she can and cannot be friends with.

So, I tell her I can't stand for it - that the best thing to do is to give each other a few days space.  And though she disagrees, I enforce the space anyway.

A few days later, I'm contacted by her. The news she bares is that her and George slept together. I'm fractured by a level of anguish I don't believe I've ever felt before in any of the relationships I'd had. My hands shake. My heart races. My skin boils and feels frozen all at the same time. But remarkably even for me, I somehow manage to let none of this bubble to the surface.

She tried to break me, giving me the details of the sexual liason, pouring out further venom about how good it felt to feel his hands all over her - how good it felt to be loved. Still, I expressed disappointment, but visibly remained unbroken.

We fought and fought. With her pencilling-in me being supposedly distant and not loving enough as the cause behind her infidelity. I turned to alcohol to ease the piercing burden of pain ravaging my innards. And when she confided in an ex of mine, saying "I just want to break him", I said that was enough. She began a relationship with George, and called him "one of the good ones"

I sank into a place I hadn't been in for years. No, it wasn't depression, but I began travelling the country, visiting the female friends I had - ones who I knew had wanted a piece of me. Needless to say that when now ex caught wind of this, she suddenly began conversing with me again.

During one of these exchanges, she made it clear that she wanted to meet face-to-face. The intention - to soothe over and remedy the relationship/friendship her and I were now struggling to keep. My mind being fried and my emotions being numb by this time, I accepted the request and met her the following evening.

She came over to mine, bearing DVDs. And that night we watched while sitting on the sitting room floor in close proximity to one another. I can't remember what exactly brought it up, but we were talking about each other and I started to kiss her.

Her moans were moans of arousal, but she asked me to stop. I did and promptly apologised. If there's anything I remember about sitting beside her then it's the response she gave when I asked "You can see in my eyes how much I'm totally in love with you, can't you?" She nodded with her big, bright hazel eyes. And I knew her mind was ticking in over-time.

A thunderstorm began to pass over the apartment. She'd previously told me she loved storms, so she said wanted to go outside on the balcony and stand in the rain. I took her there and we kissed (one of her alleged fantasies) and got soaked.

I won't list the entire evening's events, but suffice it to say that she ended up, despite me giving her the sofa, making her way into my bed in the dark. After the intimacy of which, she did not sleep, but sat awake until the morning with my head across her lap. I woke with her looking down into my eyes.

She reeked with guilt for what she had done to George for the majority of the morning and her journey to the station. Holding her hand, I advised that since she'd already started a relationship with him, the best course of action would to be to try and salvage it. She sorrowfully agreed and I saw her on her way. I didn't want to let her go, but didn't want to wreck her hew relationship.

That very night, thinking the ex would return to George and try again with him, I ventured out-of-city to a have dinner with a woman I barely knew. Still heartbroken over the ex, I slept with this very attractive woman to ease the pain and try to forget it all, but despite the amazing sex, it didn't work.

I receive contact from my ex the day after and she asks if I slept with this new woman. I tell her what happened, and she tells me that it makes her feel dirty. I explain the hypocrisy, but she doesn't want to hear it.

From here onward, I had a new plan to make things work with the new woman. And it was then that the ex began to chase me harder than she ever had before, culminating with her wanting to see me again on New Years Eve.

Blinded by my feelings, but still having a head on my shoulders, I realise that this probably means things aren't working out well with George. So I ask, and sure enough, they had split up.

I check it over with my then-new GF if meeting my ex on New Years Eve would bother her. After saying it was fine, I agree to see the ex the evening, but she flakes. I pursue it for a bit, because I missed her. But ultimately, I don't chase it up too much and let it go.

I spend the next two years with the new GF, and contact with the ex (who I suspect of having BPD) is sporadic, but solid. Meanwhile, I discover that the new GF has actually been clinically diagnosed with BPD! (she'd even told me she was in love with me the day after I met her). And things begin to fall apart with her.

It's a long story in itself, but I'll say that the new GF contacted the ex behind my back and threatened her to leave me alone. I was furious, and the jealousy/hidden power-game between them, combined with my residual feelings for the ex, destroyed the relationship.

In this time, I let my ex know I still felt strange things for her. She was on her second post-Me boyfriend and did a hell of a lot to make me jealous at the time. All of which worked. This is where she began to react to my remaining affections toward her with a mixture of mutuality and great, great anger.

I move back to my old city. And after months of mutual NC, the old ex and I get back in touch. We're flirty, very flirty, and again arrage to meet for lunch. But she flakes again, goes cold, and we fight.

Sometime after, I find out she's engaged to her now THIRD post-Me SO and I thought "this is it, I've lost her for real this time". But a year later, it falls apart.

It gets difficult here, because it's the present. She's now on her fourth post-Me SO, and herbehaviour seems to be becoming stranger and stranger to me. It's been seven years now, and throughout - especially as of late - I've striven through so much to show her I'm here for her, and that I truly care about her.

I've struggled to put aside my feelings for her in order to be the best friend I can be. But it seems as though as we've aged, her symptoms have become more frequent and more pronounced.

She readily admits to having no close friends, and alludes to the relationship her and I have as being one of the only constants in her life. But one moment, as she has many times over the years, she'll come on strongly and seek out my company - rueing, even when I can't be around when she wants it - to lashing out at me for expressing any emotional attachment to her. 

The other day, she twice initiated contact only to ignore my responses over the course of two days (probably because I was slow to respond on the first), and when I told I that I envied whoever it was she was spending time with, she became extremely angry with me.

Things can be going superbly with contact being fluid and marvellous between us - to the point where we're making allusions to spend time with each other. Then all it takes is for me to not be around for a week, and she'll just go cold. Just like that. Then reappear as though nothing has happened.

I've even tried the other way; maintaining good rapport and being around more often. But the exact same thing happens. We've fought about it so many times, gone over and over it. And though she promises to be more open about her feelings if she's down, she hardly ever is, all while claiming that I'm one of the only men who can tolerate her without abandoning her.

I've fed her when she's been hungry and poor. I've remembered her. I've treated her, and been there for her. I've taken an interest in everything she does and is interested in, and I've loved her so much. But even recently she accused me to hurting her and making her out to be cold-hearted. All this, in the face of the fact that she's probably heard and been shown "I love you" from me more than all the men she's ever been with combined.

I'm the bad guy and her fresh flavour-of-the-month boyfriend is always the good guy (until they leave), even if they're flashes in the pans who never stick around. That's not to say that I'm incapable of finding other women or being with them. I currently have a very loving SO that I've known for many years.

Sometimes it feels as though the ex knows I won't roll over for the silent treatment stuff, so she does it to pick a fight and get my attention. I say this, because most of the time, she'll be really one-worded and rude, until I verbally beat a confession out of her., until I hound her (we'll either fight and stop talking) or I apologise. Then she opens right up to me about everything she's been feeling. The only drawback being that she ends up resenting me for it.

How can she hate me for getting her to open up, if opening her up ends up making things clearer and easier between us? Why do I have to call her names to get her out of her silent treatment? I don't want to do that.

There's so much more that's happened recently, but this is already too long.

Please share your opinions. I'm sorry about the depth.

[GreenMango]

Are you on a relationship with her?  Do you have another gf still?

Here's the deal we attract mates with complimentary emotional maturity and skills. It sounds like you may not be available and she's equally unavailable.  That's not to say if you were available she would be but you'd might be able to find some answers to why you two aren't working out.

You mentioned she was young.  Maybe its that?  Can you got into some detail regarding why you believe its BPD?  Is this a longstanding pattern?  Were there intimacy, identity, self direction and empathy concerns that are surfacing with some regularity?  Hostility, quickly fluctuating mood, over emotional responses to perceived or real criticism/abandonment?

What would you like from her?  Is there a goal for this relationship?

[Chunk Palumbo]

First and foremost, thank you for responding to my long *** thread. I was tired when I wrote it.

Ever since I've known her, she's always been in with a new man, and I've had another woman (women) in my life. When whatever strange form of romance blossomed between her and I, we were both single.

Currently, she's in a new relationship. But for lack of direct asking, is unaware that I have a girlfriend. And to be honest, I'm fairly certain that if she'd try to cut me off if she knew I had one; it doesn't take much for her to become jealous of other females I spend time with, despite saying she has no feelings for me beyond friendship anymore.

As far as availiability, I've made myself such, in regard to her, as much as I humanly can.  I've put myself in her presence, I've sparingly called, I've verbally repeated the extent to which my time is available if she requires it. And she has responded positively at times. We'll have pleasant conversations that lead to her initiating contact with me out of nowhere a few days later.

She's a few years younger than I am, and she's twenty-six. I see accelerated maturity in almost all other areas of her personality, except intimacy.

I believe it's BPD, because she possesses traits and behavioural patterns that another exBPD (diagnosed) of mine did, except they're far more prominent. All the regular symptoms, which've grown throughout the years.

I actually remember a conversation with her that took place after her and I became close. She called me up, sobbing. The exact story she gave eludes me, but she confessed to having deep abandonment fears due to an incident in which someone close to her disappeared and ended up dying in an accident when she was young. I've not heard her talk about it ever again, and I've not enquired.

She's also mentioned that her mother suffered from deep postpartum depression. And practically did not want to know her when she was very young. Her relationship with her father (whom her mother has cheated on), seems vague to me. She seems to love him, and calls him a very kind, loving man. But when I've asked about their closeness lately, she changes the subject or is very curt.

What do I want from her? Ironically, I'd like her to at least partially come to terms that someone is her friend and cares about her, without necessarily wanting to take advantage of her physically. I'd like her to know she won't be abandoned, but also that her issues with intimacy cannot be ignored into extinction.

I want her to know why it eats me up when she's with other men. And I want her to know why I had to temporarily turn my back on her. I want her to be happy. I want to hold her and tell her how much I understand her fight. I want her to be there for her when we're old and grey (if I don't die of a heart-attack first!) I want her to know that the feelings I've had for her were not the result of her deceiving me into believing she's something that she's not, and so much more.

I'm not sure if there's a goal for the relationship. A goal would, to me, be something that requires the shared ambition of both parties. I don't know what she wants from me, apart from suspected validation, ego-stroking, and an arm to pick her up when she's down. But there're times she'll contact me just to talk.

Would you mind sharing your theory on why, during her silent treatment and cold-shouldering, she'll complain and ask why I can't just be quiet and accept the treatment, yet if I *do not* call her out on it or get agitated, she never opens up?

Variation of these stages:

*Very talkative, affectionate. Getting on like a house on fire again;

*She'll contact me a few days later to talk again. I respond promptly.

*Suddenly, she'll just go cold.

*I enquire, politely if she's alright.

*She denies anything is wrong. I accept and desist.

*It continues for week after week, and I get frustrated.

*I confront her. And she fights back, but confesses everything.

*She resents me for pushing.

But if I don't push, she hardly ever snaps out of the depressed mode to confide in me. I get jealous that she confides in her boyfriends and her one other friend (maybe), but not me.

If she contacts me and I'm busy enough to not respond promptly, the exact same thing happens, except sooner.

[GreenMango]

Would you mind sharing your theory on why, during her silent treatment and cold-shouldering, she'll complain and ask why I can't just be quiet and accept the treatment, yet if I *do not* call her out on it or get agitated, she never opens up?

Usually when people pull the silent treatment, if its not a timeout because they need to get their emotions under control, its about punishment or a tantrum.  The hmpfff I didn't get my way. 

It's not advisable to chase someone down to force them talk.  You want to talk about it wait until they come back to talk and address it then.

What are your boundaries to this relationship?  It sounds like neither one of you is willing to let go of the other partners.  Do you think you need to have a talk with her about what kind of relationship you'd like?  Do you want a committed monogamous relationship with her?

[Chunk Palumbo]

I have to thank you again for replying.

In the past - bearing in mind I've known this woman for some time now - I've managed to stay silent and faithful during her periods of discontent, especially on the very first occasion that she did it many years ago.

The very first time, which was years ago now, she was being unfaithful. I knew she was up to something, but as she gave a reason (her dog was being put down, and she was on her period, no less) I remained understanding.

In a way, the consequences of this created a fear within myself. I do fear losing her permenantly, as I felt I did after the very first instance of her cold-shoulder phase.

Chasing, or "pushing" as her and I call it, isn't something I intend to do. But it eats me up inside like an unholy maggot, and I start to think two things: "She's confiding in him, why not me?" and "I'm not taking this ****!" I'm not confrontational, but letting her get away with repeatedly ignoring me feels as though I'm being submissive, which goes against everything I am. That's a problem I have, I'll admit to you and to her.

We've spoken in-depth about the bumps in the road we have many times, including how it makes her feel, why she does it, and how I feel when she does. We come to an understanding, and promise to be more patient and empathy with each other. And I can feel the love starting to eb through like pinholes of light. Then months later it'll happen again.

The longest period of silent treatment came after a Christmas where I was going insane with jealousy that another man was spending the holiday with her and her family. We argued via text and everything just exploded.

It was five months of the cold-shoulder. And every month, I wrote her a letter, which she ignored. Finally, I had enough of it and I called her one evening. She shouted at me and slammed the phone down before I could say much. But the next morning, she called. She was calm down and pleasant. And we got on as though nothing had even happened. We started talking regularly again.

If I hadn't pursued here, I'm certain I would've lost her for good.

My boundaries? She'll tell me that other people (her one other friend and her internet contacts, I imagine) take the unspoken hints she'll give or that when she treats them with one-wordedness, they'll say "okay." and back right off. But as said, I find it hard tolerating it from her after we've come such a long way; I expect a special place with her.

I don't tolerate any unwarranted - that is, unprovoked - disrespect from her. At one point, when I was even deeper in love with her, I made the mistake of not fighting back, and I think it ruined part of the relationship. These days, though, I exercise zero tolerance for any type of verbal disrespect. We do rip on each other jokingly at times, though.

As far as talking about what kind of relationship her and I have, we've done this at least once every year over the last five years. She's gone from wanting me back badly, to being unsure, to being angry that I still felt for her, to being unsure again, to feigning indifference, to being unsure, to being angry that I still feel for her.

I've asked her "What the hell am I to you?" and she's refused to label it. It's as though we're close enough to be more than friends historically and for it to feel "inappropriate" to her to spend time with me, then we're good enough friends to hang out and have coffee, and then suddenly we're not even close enough to express the desire to want to be around each other. Such as the other day when I unemotionally mentioned being envious of whomever she was with at that weekend, and she got really, really angry at me and sad it made her feel bad.

She also blames herself for chasing me destroying my relationship with the other BPD ex, if that means anything. I've told her it wasn't her fault.

Do you think it's possible that a part of her resents/mistrusts me and thinks I abandoned her when I tried to move on with another woman? I've suspected it, but I can't be sure. If I ask her, I'm sure she'll deny it, unless she's in the right frame of emotion.

I remember when I contacted her, still with the other BPD ex, and she accused me of disappearing and trying to swan back into her life.

[GreenMango]

We've spoken in-depth about the bumps in the road we have many times, including how it makes her feel, why she does it, and how I feel when she does. We come to an understanding, and promise to be more patient and empathy with each other. And I can feel the love starting to eb through like pinholes of light. Then months later it'll happen again.

The longest period of silent treatment came after a Christmas where I was going insane with jealousy that another man was spending the holiday with her and her family. We argued via text and everything just exploded.

It was five months of the cold-shoulder. And every month, I wrote her a letter, which she ignored. Finally, I had enough of it and I called her one evening. She shouted at me and slammed the phone down before I could say much. But the next morning, she called. She was calm down and pleasant. And we got on as though nothing had even happened. We started talking regularly again.

If I hadn't pursued here, I'm certain I would've lost her for good.

My boundaries? She'll tell me that other people (her one other friend and her internet contacts, I imagine) take the unspoken hints she'll give or that when she treats them with one-wordedness, they'll say "okay." and back right off. But as said, I find it hard tolerating it from her after we've come such a long way; I expect a special place with her.

It sounds like this is her pattern of handling things.  You don't sound okay with it.

Are you okay with a relationship that she's stated this will he how it is? 

[eyvindr]

With all due respect -- I think you really need to ask yourself just what kind of relationship you want to have with her, and then consider whether or not it is feasible, possible or likely, and then determine whether you can live with it. It's certainly been long enough to make a decision one way or another. Are you expecting or waiting for her to change? It doesn't sound like she has any desire to do so.

[Chunk Palumbo]

It sounds like this is her pattern of handling things.  You don't sound okay with it.

Are you okay with a relationship that she's stated this will he how it is? 

Handling what, specifically, though? I'm going back and forth attempting to wonder whether I've been too distant or too close, but've come to the realisation that it may not be about me or anything I've done at all.

I'm not necessarily okay with the treatment, no, you're right. But then if I was, I wouldn't be here; I assume everything'd be fine and I'd be going along haply with whatever she demands. But if not being able to handle her mood swings means kicking her out of my life completely, then, as weak as it sounds, I'm not sure I'll ever be able to do it. I've experienced enough in life to know that I love this woman more than I have any other.

She once asked if I'd be willing to fight for her; I have and I am.

In regard to being happy with what she states the relationship is, she hasn't really stated what it is. It changes all the time. In a twisted way, one could call that an unwritten statement in itself. But for me to conclude such a thing as her ultimate desire concerning me, without her spoken confirmation, would be presumptious. And presuming to know what she feels has often lead me to be wrong.

I was once called her rubik's cube. But it's -her- I can't seem to figure out anymore.

With all due respect -- I think you really need to ask yourself just what kind of relationship you want to have with her, and then consider whether or not it is feasible, possible or likely, and then determine whether you can live with it. It's certainly been long enough to make a decision one way or another. Are you expecting or waiting for her to change? It doesn't sound like she has any desire to do so.

Thanks for reading and responding. The sheer volume of the number of times I've questioned and doubted the relationship her and I have is - for lack of a better word - astronomical. Depending on our interactions, I go from thinking it's hopeless, to being convinced that things're improving.

I want to be a good friend to her, and to be there for her. But it seems that no matter what method I proscribe to in order to prevent it, I often end up feeling for her again; not even falling in love, but wanting to be around and with her.  Are any of these likely? I can't answer that. It's why I'm undecided. For a few months, it looks so close to becoming something, then I don't know what happens.  If I leave, she contacts me. If she leaves, I contact her.

It's as though we both have -some- idea of how I feel about her. But neither of us - not I, nor even her - knows how she feels about me. I can only lay out her behaviour and ask of your opinions on that, rather than what I feel about those behaviours. I obviously I love her to bits. And things that we love, we're very much often willing to fight tooth and nail for.

Waiting for her to change sounds passive. However, I do take an active role in trying to negotiate the treacherous course of helping her with her emotions and her personal life struggles. I'd never be able to just sit back and wait for her to change, nor, as I've told her many times, would I forcibly attempt to change her.

Intermittently, a wish to change her ways has been a thing she has expressed to me as a goal, but she has a lot of growing to do. I'd like to grow with her, if I'm honest; she means that much to me. And I'm sure jumping from one man's parts to the next is going to heal her or make her feel whole.

That's not to say I'm sticking out my chest and deeming myself some sort of arrogant saviour; far from it. But I'd love to be able to help her.

Is it possible that she resents me (or ever resented me) for getting involved with another woman when she cheated? Or resents me for some other reason, such as sticking around even though she has 'been difficult', as she puts it? Does she feel guilty about something? - does she feel as though she's lead me on?

[Chunk Palumbo]

And I'm sure jumping from one man's parts to the next is going to heal her or make her feel whole.

I'm not sure*

[eyvindr]

No prob, Chuck.

Thanks for reading and responding. The sheer volume of the number of times I've questioned and doubted the relationship her and I have is - for lack of a better word - astronomical. Depending on our interactions, I go from thinking it's hopeless, to being convinced that things're improving.

Sounds so familiar – after my ex and I broke up the first time about a year ago, after we’d started seeing a T together, I continued with the T. One of the observations that he made over the course of sessions was that he didn’t hear that my ex was doing anything really to change her behaviors. And he’d ask me, based on that, what made me think anything would change?

I want to be a good friend to her, and to be there for her. But it seems that no matter what method I proscribe to in order to prevent it, I often end up feeling for her again; not even falling in love, but wanting to be around and with her.  Are any of these likely? I can't answer that. It's why I'm undecided. For a few months, it looks so close to becoming something, then I don't know what happens.  If I leave, she contacts me. If she leaves, I contact her.

It's as though we both have -some- idea of how I feel about her. But neither of us - not I, nor even her - knows how she feels about me. I can only lay out her behaviour and ask of your opinions on that, rather than what I feel about those behaviours. I obviously I love her to bits. And things that we love, we're very much often willing to fight tooth and nail for.

Sure we are. Maybe I’m wrong, or have unrealistic expectations of a primary relationship (my ex often argued that I did), but – isn’t love, in a healthy r-ship, consistently reciprocal? Shouldn’t we be able to expect it to be constant, lasting – in short, reliable? Shouldn’t we be able to exist in love without feeling required to continually prove that we have love for and deserve love from our partners?

Do you get that from this r-ship? Consistently, or sporadically? Is it what you want from her, from this r-ship with her?

As GM wrote:

It sounds like this is her pattern of handling things.  You don't sound okay with it.

Are you okay with a relationship that she's stated this will he how it is?

I totally relate to what you say about wanting to be there for her, wanting to be her friend. I’ve tried to do the same – which was why two months into the break-up last year, after two steady months of being painted monstrously black, my ex reached out to me, and I agreed to speak with her. And she went from “I’m not trying to reconcile” to “I’m really hoping we can reconcile” in the span of about 3 txt msgs. And I tried vigilantly to impress upon her how I didn’t have any confidence that we could be involved again as anything other than friends, and that – regardless of where things led – we first had to work on the friendship…blah blah blah. I fell immediately back into the whole thing, and within a month she was exhibiting all the familiar old behaviors that she’d just identified as being problems and had vowed to  handle differently.

To clarify – I don’t blame her. She believed what she told me, and I let myself believe it, too. At no point do I believe I was “forced” into anything – I’m aware of my free choice. And I chose to be in the r-ship I was in, because I loved her. I still do. But I’m not equipped to handle the roller coaster ride that characterizes this kind of r-ship. It’s something I still struggle to accept in myself – my inability to do this. Because I really wanted it to work with her, for us.

[Chunk Palumbo]

Sounds so familiar – after my ex and I broke up the first time about a year ago, after we’d started seeing a T together, I continued with the T. One of the observations that he made over the course of sessions was that he didn’t hear that my ex was doing anything really to change her behaviors. And he’d ask me, based on that, what made me think anything would change?

And with what did you respond?

If a T posed the very same question, I'd answer that seeing and being around her again would change things, but I'm not certain as to the duration for which they would.

Sure we are. Maybe I’m wrong, or have unrealistic expectations of a primary relationship (my ex often argued that I did), but – isn’t love, in a healthy r-ship, consistently reciprocal? Shouldn’t we be able to expect it to be constant, lasting – in short, reliable? Shouldn’t we be able to exist in love without feeling required to continually prove that we have love for and deserve love from our partners? Do you get that from this r-ship? Consistently, or sporadically? Is it what you want from her, from this r-ship with her?

Concerning our pwBPD, it'll likely never be a 100% healthy case of give and receive, and I can accept that. But even a small amount of improvement would be progress. I can handle anything she throws at me by way of scolding remarks (my skin is probably the thickest she's encountered), the unreliability, the put-downs, and the "you always try to pick out my flaws, you don't love me"'s. However, it's the giving of her normally closed-off heart to other people/men that gets to me. Anything, but her heart. Tragic, really.

I even could tolerate sporadic, sparsely separated contact with her if I knew she'd be more open. Normally, I'm not one to cling during relationships anyway. The only circumstances under which I may contact her relentlessly is when I think something's wrong (after a week or so of the cold shoulder). And I'm beginning to think that, contrary to the resentment and disdain that follows she expresses, this is one of the reasons she does it.

I've been a 'something' in her life for years now. These days she never admits it, but I know she worries about losing me - whether that be as a person or a source.

As far as proving my love for her, I'll never tire of that; I could quite possibly tell and show her that I love her until I die. But from this arises two two conundrums: 1. it bugs me when I know for a fact that other men do not have to prove a thing to her, except sex. 2. From me, she'll accept acts of love willingly, openly, and gratefully, but words of love anger her -- even push her away (sometimes).

As formentioned, I recently - when she twice contacted by text me and ignored both responses - said that I was SLIGHTLY envious of whomever it was she was in the company of. She turned on me. But a week or so before that, she's lamenting that I have to leave the conversation and be with someone else.

I totally relate to what you say about wanting to be there for her, wanting to be her friend. I’ve tried to do the same – which was why two months into the break-up last year, after two steady months of being painted monstrously black, my ex reached out to me, and I agreed to speak with her. And she went from “I’m not trying to reconcile” to “I’m really hoping we can reconcile” in the span of about 3 txt msgs. And I tried vigilantly to impress upon her how I didn’t have any confidence that we could be involved again as anything other than friends, and that – regardless of where things led – we first had to work on the friendship…blah blah blah. I fell immediately back into the whole thing, and within a month she was exhibiting all the familiar old behaviors that she’d just identified as being problems and had vowed to  handle differently

To clarify – I don’t blame her. She believed what she told me, and I let myself believe it, too. At no point do I believe I was “forced” into anything – I’m aware of my free choice. And I chose to be in the r-ship I was in, because I loved her. I still do. But I’m not equipped to handle the roller coaster ride that characterizes this kind of r-ship. It’s something I still struggle to accept in myself – my inability to do this. Because I really wanted it to work with her, for us.

You're not alone. For me, I'm aware that her decisions, even though she claims to be one of the most logical women ever, are governed-oft by her tumultuous feelings; she'll say a lot without meaning it when angry.  Due to the almost steely objectivity she displays in other areas of life, it took me a long time to realise this, even if there were clear signs that this was the case, early on.

I know I'm strong enough to handle her now; I accept her Thorns as part of the Rose. But it's the distance (texting, emails, rare phonecalls, Skype) that I just don't know how to deal with anymore. With these, I lose my cool, because it's not real; it's not close enough for me, and I feel stunted.

In her presence, I know that unlike the past, I'd maintain full control over where things go. My armour would be inpenetrable. But it's as though she'll use these forms of E-communication as a prophylactic against becoming too emotionally invested in me. Commmunicating this way actually helps her to hide and pull away from me when things get too touchy, I've found. And I have trouble with it.

I call her, sure. But I'm not the kind of man who'll constantly call a woman who's involved with another man. Especially when, deep down, I know her and I are more than normal, hey-lets-go-shopping-darling! friends. I hold back in the phone department, even though she's dropped hints that she'd like it if I called more often, and even though I know that if we regularly heard each other's voices, it'd likely re-strengthen our bond.

Would you do something that felt wrong, if it meant you could be closer to her?

I'm still puzzled about whether or not she resents me for leaving, but I guess I'll never know unless I probe her deeply.