Fighting just to fight?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

We have been in a long drawn out custody battle with BPD mom.  They came to an agreement at one point, but then BPD mom wanted money to take care of DSD (she quit her job so now was having difficulty supporting DSD while DH was supporting the two boys), and it has gone downhill ever since.  

Anyway, we are at a point where we went to court-ordered mediation with a GAL's recommendations.  We would have been fine with the GAL recommendations, but still, she wanted money and she wanted us to pay her attorney.  The GAL is seeing this as being a "money grab" (and he used to be on "her" side).

The thing is, she is not going to get any support while we have the two boys so now she is fighting for the two boys... . sort of.  She is filing in her paperwork that the boys want to live with her, but they have told their counselor that they do not want to live with her (and they are older, and we are way more stable, etc. etc. etc).  So there is no way that she will "win" custody of the two boys.  Yet she keeps fighting... .

It is almost like she is fighting just to fight at this point.  Is it possible that she is just trying to get back at dh?  Or does she actually think she will win?  I feel like I am watching a circus, and she is the clown.

[sanemom]

We have been in a long drawn out custody battle with BPD mom.  They came to an agreement at one point, but then BPD mom wanted money to take care of DSD (she quit her job so now was having difficulty supporting DSD while DH was supporting the two boys), and it has gone downhill ever since.  

Anyway, we are at a point where we went to court-ordered mediation with a GAL's recommendations.  We would have been fine with the GAL recommendations, but still, she wanted money and she wanted us to pay her attorney.  The GAL is seeing this as being a "money grab" (and he used to be on "her" side).

The thing is, she is not going to get any support while we have the two boys so now she is fighting for the two boys... . sort of.  She is filing in her paperwork that the boys want to live with her, but they have told their counselor that they do not want to live with her (and they are older, and we are way more stable, etc. etc. etc).  So there is no way that she will "win" custody of the two boys.  Yet she keeps fighting... .

It is almost like she is fighting just to fight at this point.  Is it possible that she is just trying to get back at dh?  Or does she actually think she will win?  I feel like I am watching a circus, and she is the clown.

[ForeverDad]

It is almost like she is fighting just to fight at this point.  Is it possible that she is just trying to get back at dh?  Or does she actually think she will win?  I feel like I am watching a circus, and she is the clown.

Probably.  Could be.  Could Be.  Yeah.

In the old days he would have given in by now, he would have lost in the "irresistible force versus immoveable object" game.  Now he just digs in and weathers the storm.  I don't know if she'll ever figure out he's changed.

[Deb]

Don't try and figure it out, it will just make your head spin.   My dBPDsister demanded a divirce, demanded that BIL file and moved in with a new guy. She claimed she didn't want custody of her youngest because child was "loud and bossy like her father." So when BIL filed for divorce and custody, she then fought tooth and nail not to be divorced. She fought for custody. She boo hooed to any and all that he had filed for divorce. The one she said she wanted. There is nothing you can make sense of out of disordered people. I once had an argument with a probable BPD and I started to agree with her just to shut her up. She switched sides. DId that several more times before she stomped off. It's like, whatever you want, they want the opposite, even if it's not in their best interests, or what they really want.

[sanemom]

Don't try and figure it out, it will just make your head spin.   My dBPDsister demanded a divirce, demanded that BIL file and moved in with a new guy. She claimed she didn't want custody of her youngest because child was "loud and bossy like her father." So when BIL filed for divorce and custody, she then fought tooth and nail not to be divorced. She fought for custody. She boo hooed to any and all that he had filed for divorce. The one she said she wanted. There is nothing you can make sense of out of disordered people. I once had an argument with a probable BPD and I started to agree with her just to shut her up. She switched sides. DId that several more times before she stomped off. It's like, whatever you want, they want the opposite, even if it's not in their best interests, or what they really want.

No... . not going to try to figure it out.  I will just grab some popcorn and watch the comedy.   

We are finally in a good place legally--the GAL is sort of starting to see what a disaster he created by recommending the kids suddenly (after 9 years of being raised by DH) go live with BPD mom (although I am sure he will never 100% own it); the new judge gets BPD AND PA: and we have some good counselors who get what is going on (including one who is monitoring the therapy).  The boys' counselor, who heard from the boys that BPD mom is telling them all about the case (against the CO), told DH "I am glad I can help."  She can now testify to the manipulation because she is appalled by it all, too.

All BPD mom is doing is saying, "I want money because my ex makes more than I do"  WAH.  We are raising two of the three kids... . she is so entitled.

DH made a chart of her history of not paying child support in the 10 years since the divorce; every month that she did not pay is a red dot--the red dots are about 75% of the chart. 

I am open to the judge deciding what is best.  I am not even sure I know what is best anymore because it is so convoluted after these three years.  Her legal motions are seriously wacko, but whatever... .

[DreamGirl]

 I feel like I am watching a circus, and she is the clown.

A circus and it's clown. Do we laugh at the clown? Or with the clown? Are you laughing at her because you're taking comfort in that she's making a fool of herself?

I feel like you're finally getting what you wanted - with the professionals finally able to see what's going on. That's good, I'm really happy for you. It also wouldn't be so uncommon that a pwBPD start to dysregulate with all of this starting to come to the surface. I see fear in her actions (i.e. manic motion filing). A lot of fear actually. 

She suffers from BPD and with that comes a certain emotion-based decision making.

She's not seeing the situation the way you are, she's simply trying to get what it is that she thinks she needs by the ways the she thinks she needs to get them. You wouldn't be in your current situation if she was a logical thinker. 

When my husband's ex wife tells the hubs that he "needs to buy school supplies for the girls"... . and he says "it's your turn, I bought them last year and you said you'd do it this year"... . and she replies "you never pay for anything!"... . and he busts out a box of receipts to show that he pays for most things... . and she responds with "you don't pay enough child support!"... . It's an example of when my husband attempts to apply logic to her acting on her emotions. Emotions aren't always logical.

Fact of the matter is mom's broke, can't afford school supplies and she's using her BPD toolbox to find a means to an end. Same with your husband's ex-wife. Yes, she's entitled. It's a clown's mask that soothes a pretty low self worth.

So your confusion is because you are comparing your logic-based decision making to her emotion-based decision making. You'd be able to assess the situation and perhaps resolve the issues at hand. Where she's upping the ante with her current methods of getting what she wants.

She suffers from BPD, and you're pretty well read on the disorder, so from what you know - do you believe she's fighting just to fight? is it revenge? is it fear? is it a desperate grasp? a coping skill?

What is it?

[sanemom]

 I feel like I am watching a circus, and she is the clown.

A circus and it's clown. Do we laugh at the clown? Or with the clown? Are you laughing at her because you're taking comfort in that she's making a fool of herself?

I don't really think I am laughing at her at all... . nor do I really laugh at clowns.  It is more of a bemusement.  Like asking myself "why is that clown jumping into the car with 20 other clowns" and "why is that clown jumping up and down in front of a lion", but, at the same time, it is not a real question in my head because I also know that there is no logical reason to why the clown is doing what he is doing. 

She suffers from BPD, and you're pretty well read on the disorder, so from what you know - do you believe she's fighting just to fight? is it revenge? is it fear? is it a desperate grasp? a coping skill?

Hard to know... . probably a mixture of all of these.

I know if she wasn't continually hurting my DH and skids, I would actually have quite a bit of sympathy for her.  I know people like her who are NOT hurting my family, and I DO feel for them.  My ex also had a mental illness and did some horrific things to me and my children; I am now able to sympathize with him more because he is not still doing those things.  I told my DH the other day that in a few years when the kids are off in college and there is no more reason for contact, I am sure we will both be able to pity her more... . it just is difficult when the daggers keep flying.

[david]

I was told, "negative engagement is still engagement." The longer this goes on the more I understand what that means. Our boys are 14 and 10 so I still have a while before it stops.

[sanemom]

I was told, "negative engagement is still engagement." The longer this goes on the more I understand what that means. Our boys are 14 and 10 so I still have a while before it stops.

Yeah... . I wonder if that includes when she never hears about our reaction to her stuff.  I mean, everything goes through our attorney, and he tends to ignore her attorney's goofy letters.  So I am not sure what she is getting from it, other than imagined... .

[david]

"I wonder if that includes when she never hears about our reaction to her stuff."  I came to the conclusion that is part of an extinction burst or intermittant reinforcement. Eventually, and it is on her time scale, it will lessen.                                                                                             My ex left 6 plus years ago. The first two years I received about 40 emails a month mostly telling me what is wrong with me. That gradually lessened. Today I receive about 5 a month. I rarely have to reply since most don't pertain to our kids. In the beginning I was physically, verbally, and emotionally abusive towards her and our boys. I only communicate through email and never go near her. I am now only emotionally abusive towards our two boys. So I guess I am getting better.