Suicide thoughts do they lead to suicide?

[heronbird]

So if someone is having suicidal thoughts, does that mean they will end attempting suicide. Apparently not I have been told.

Id like to know what you all think of that.

So my dd is really low at the moment she has been feeling like this for a while now, but its getting worse and worse everyday, now thinking about suicide, how seriously should I take that, I  am worried.

Her husband is seriously worried, he wont leave her alone.

Everything we try to offer her she has a childish excuse why she wont go or ask for help. She just wants to sit at home feeling terrible and crying day and night.

What shall I do? I feel so sad for her just want to help her so much :'( :'( :'(

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[swampped]

Dear Heronbird:  You have been through so much with your dd!  She has come close to seriously harming herself in the past as I recall, and for that reason I would take her statements very seriously.  It sounds as if she is severely depressed (?postpartum related?), and perhaps acknowledging her pain might lead her to accept some help.  Psychic pain hurts so much, and yet there is often shame involved in asking for help.  I know she is no longer under your care, but wonder if her dh would take steps to see that she is evaluated and treated, at the Emergency Room, if nothing else.  At this point, I would not be fearful of making her angry or setting her off or not being validating---the stakes are too high, IMO.   If she is at the point of thinking the world, including her dear baby, would be better off without her, she may be losing touch with reality.  I have been there.  It hurts.  And it is so important for someone to take charge and help until the thoughts are better controlled.

You have done so much good for so many of us with your writing, sharing and organizing for the cause of BPD.  I pray that your dd will heal enough to think more logically about this.  YOu will be in my thoughts and prayers.      Swampped

[crazedncrazymom]

That's a tough call.  I can't say for sure.  I do know that both times my daughter made an attempt she never said she felt suicidal.  However, I would take the statements very seriously as she may be asking for help.  You must be so exhausted.  How is that beautiful grandbaby of yours?

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, heronbird   

Sorry that I don't know the exact answer to this question, but does she have some sort of Dr. or Therapist who is working with her regularly? Is there some professional who is familiar with her situation and diagnoses that can give you/her guidance? I do believe she should see someone in the field regarding this.

I know that when my son used to talk about suicide (and he actually never did attempt it) we contacted his Out Patient Therapist and Psychiatrist, and decided whether he needed to be admitted to the ER (he was admitted 2 times in the last 15 years; the first time he only had a Psych). The last ideation was only this past February, and the admittance to the ER & Psych Ward led to his treatment at the Dual Diagnosis Program that resulted in his BPD diagnosis and subsequent treatment for it. A good thing... .

I know how hard this all is, and how much we as parents want to hope it is "just talk" and that it will go away without harm to our child. I wasn't sure that this last time he had to be admitted to the Psych Ward (my experience with him was that it would pass without him harming himself), but now we all have to admit that it was the best outcome for him. Even he admits it... .

Please know that my prayers are with you and your daughter; her pain is so sad and continuous that I really think now is a good time to have her get help for it. It may open the door to further treatments... .

[Tightrope walker]

heronbird,

    I am sorry that you are grappling with the suicide issue.  My D is constantly trying to end it.  She just recently drank some cleaner, but not enough to harm her insides.  She is in an adult residential facility and I talked to the counselors.  Everyone has the same worry that she may eventually try something that will be permanent or fatal.   I have been advised by the counselors and my T to take any talk of suicide, ending it, etc. seriously.  What I am to do is to call someone  (911, her counselor, etc.) and get her help.  It is a catch 22: you don't want to reinforce negative attention seeking but you can't ignore an attempt to kill themselves.  Good luck.

                       Tightrope Walker

[vivekananda]

Hi HB   

I can confirm from what I understand that suicide thoughts do not lead to suicide. ... . but they can and do.

"The range of suicidal ideation varies greatly from fleeting to detailed planning, role playing, and unsuccessful attempts, which may be deliberately constructed to fail or be discovered, or may be fully intended to result in death. Although most people who undergo suicidal ideation do not go on to make suicide attempts, a significant proportion do." Wikipedia

It is difficult for we parents to have a balanced view of this question because we are faced with all sorts of trauma in relation to the children we love so much. As in all things, informing ourselves helps us understand that which is so challenging. It is essential for our loved ones that we understand validation and boundary setting and become skilled practitioners. If our children are adults, then we need to work extra hard on acceptance.


Vivek    

[jellibeans]

heronbird

I am sorry your dd is still struggling... . I have not been on the board in a while so I am not sure how things are going with her. Last I heard she was in a baby and mom treatment center and thought she was doing good.

My dd16 is younger but when she has said anything involving suicide we take it very seriously... . her attempts have not been serious but still she has tried and that is a cry for help one that can't be ignored. some action must take place.

[HiddenHorseCreek]

Hi, I am new to this site but not to BPD. We have an adult D who is also a single mom(no father in picture). She has a 14 year old daughter and at this point I feel like we have 2 separate problems. I am so sorry you are having this suicide problem with your D. Our D has been hurting and trying overdoses for several years now. She always calls for help in time. I am told that these are not true suicide attemps but attention drawing. The problem is they don't always know how far they can go and then accei  dently succeed suicide. So while the attemps aren't true, the danger is. Her 14  year old  daughter has taken on the responsibility of caregiver for her mom. She home schools so she can be there. All but one friend has dropped her. Their parents didn't want their children around her mom. I understand  but it hurts just the same.  Our D is in therapy called Dialectical Behavior Therapy. Have you heard of this? It hasn't stopped all the bad behavior but I think it is helping because they make her stop and think about what she has done. I have every hope that she can beat this BPD if we can just keep her alive long enough. If  you want to now more about this therapy try Googling it or if I can help answer any question let me know. I have high hopes this site will give me a place to talk to someone who knows what I am going through. I hope you do too.

[qcarolr]

Heronbird --

I always take talk of suicide seriously. I always tell my D that I am worried and will call for a wellness check or will drive her to the ER.

Can you SIL do this for her? What would be holding him back from taking her for professinal help ASAP?

I fought against suicidal thinking for many years -- I attempted only once when my DD was age 5. I beleived in my deep depression, and I was in treatment at the time, that she would be better off without me. There were many ways I unconsiously was crying out for help, and even the professinals at that time did not take it seriously.  My belief now, looking back, is not that I wanted to die. I wanted someone to believe how much pain I was in, how I was unable to make any decisions for myself, and to give me comfort, care and direction.  I only got what I needed after nearly dying of an overdose of tranquilizers.

It very well could be post-partum depression pushing this up to the surface for your D. If so, anti-depressants could well help with this. THis is NOT PART OF HER BPD. My DD27 had depression with both her babies. Please, please reach out and get her help. She does not have to suffer so right now.


My prayers are with your D, and with all those around her that care for courage, strength and guidance.

qcr    

[heronbird]

Wow, what a lot of support on here, thank you so much everyone.

Well you all sound like you think the same as me about the question.

Thing is, I rang her care coordinator, thats like a care key worker person, she does not do that much, just meet up for coffee with dd if dd wants it and maybe she will assess her a bit. She is like a mental health social worker or occupational health worker.

She rang my dd and my dd told her she is only thinking about suicide, she does not have a plan. So the care coordinator told me  she would not call the police, as my dd does  not have any plans of suicide. They would not be able to detain dd if she has no plans.

Yes, she has lost touch with some reality. She has lost her short term memory.

She took some stuff from her sister, silly stuff that she didnt need, underwear that wouldnt fit anyway and she didnt need. She didnt remember taking it yet when she got home it was in her bag, she told dh that her sis gave it to her.  

Anyway, in the end sil told her if she dont go to hospital he is divorcing her. He came round here to drop some stuff off for the baby as he was here she came round, she was in such a state, she gave me the biggest hug ever, it was so nice.

Anyway, I could see that sil was making her worse. All the things I have learnt helped me to help her. In the end he left because they were having circular arguments.

I got her from really upset and angry and saying things like Im not going to hospital, its horrid in there you dont know how it feels I hate it in there Im never going.

To... . Ok Ill go to hospital, it might be nice actually, my friends might come and visit me too. Oh, I wont have to worry about house work and washing. What can I do to make it nicer in there, will you bring scrabble up and we will play that.

She rang her dh and asked him if he would come with her, I think she was hoping he would be happy but he is selfish and said he was at a friend s house and would but a lot later. Id never treat her like that.

So she is in there now. She said no visitors, she is not coming out of her room. I said I understand and if she wants anything Im here for her.

Then dh rang her and told her that social services dont want him to have baby and its all my fault, hes blaming me so then dd texts me a really rude text, then puts it on fb that she is going to loose baby for good, huh 

She dont want to see me, yet today sil came to get baby to take him to see dd to tell her its over for good.

We have just worked out that sil has OCD. So that means I understand some behaviours, he is controlling, he tries to control me in some ways, I thought he just didnt like me or women.

I dont know much about OCD. He is a complete messy person in the home I know that.

Anyway, now he is saying he is splitting up from dd and keeping the baby on his own so that social services wont take the baby away from him.

Sorry all confusing, and confusing for me, I never know where I stand.

[qcarolr]

So did he just ask to take gs, or did he actually come a get him? Seems SS wants you to have baby as best interest of the child for now. I would encourage you to find the courage to set a boundary with SIL for a set period of time. A time-out kind of while he figures out what her wants without any distractions.

It has to be triggering for SIL to feel his son is being taken from him. He needs to feel in control of everything in his life with OCD. This calms his fear and distress. Yet he cannot use gs to be a part of this 'solution'. Can SS set a limit for say 6 weeks, then evaluate the situation? Also, if he is threatening to keep baby, he needs to only see gs with supervision of SS worker. Not sure how you do it in UK. This is a common plan in US.

Thanks for the update. You are daily in my prayers. Hang in there. The confusion you feel is common. Do you have any mindfulness practices to turn to right now? I often avoid mine, but they really help if I just schedule it in my day.

qcr  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[LoneWolf768]

Heronbird, I agree with everyone here. Any threat of suicide has to be taken seriously. My thinking is if you call the police and/or a crisis hotline, I would hope she'd see that you're taking her threats seriously. On the other hand, would she find some type of enjoyment out of the attention? That's what I'd be grappling with. Not doing anything would probably worry you sick, though. You sound like you have a big heart and won't let her hurt herself. I hope she doesn't, either.

[heronbird]

Lonewoolf, that was my query, she was not threatening suicide. She was just feeling suicidal  

If Police are called they wont take anyone to hospital if they are just feeling suicidal. They have to have a plan or an idea of what they are going to do.

Thanks qcarolr.

Thing is, we do need to remember if baby is with me for another 3 months then he will be 6 months, they wont want him uprooted for good probably, but they will have contact with him it will just be more rigid.

So today for example, he wanted baby from 11am to 7pm, but hes just rang to say hes bringing him back now 3pm. He wont be able to do that, he will have to keep him, I need that.

How can i ever go out if he does that, so he needs to make a plan and stick to it what ever happens.

Dd is a lot better now, still in hospital and I think she feels safe in there, she has a lot of anger towards him, she realises he was trying to control her and is very unforgiving.

She drives these guys mad

I offered to try to help him but he just says he knows everything and there is no point.

They say they have broken up and he wants divorce, now theres going to be all problems with property etc home.

She just wants a normal life, such a shame she cant have it

BTW

have you heard of Lithium? what do you know about it, she asked to go on that.

[qcarolr]

lithium is for bipolar disorder - a mood stabilizer. There are many newer meds. now. I took lithium when first dx bipolar in 1989. My dd took it as a child for several years. SHe had lots of side effects - it must be monitored to keep out of toxic range. I gained a lot of weight and it did not really work for my moods. What reason is given to try this med?

qcr

[heronbird]

Thanks, reason is we heard it was one of the stronger ones, and dd is desperate. She does have mood swings but not bipolar type. She has more depression and her anti depressants are not working

[LoneWolf768]

Heron, I was never offered Lithium. I was put on Celexa, 10mg a day, for bi polar depression. That was July of 1012. My PCP at that time was leaving his practice and moving to another state. I found another PCP in May and he felt I was misdiagnosed. He didn't see any of the manic ups/downs that go with being bi polar. In his opinion, he told me I suffer from good, old-fashioned depression and switch me to Wellbutrin. Not sure if it's helping, to be honest. Some days are better than others. I may need to do more on my end to see consistent results i.e. maybe a special diet, getting out more often, being around people more often, better sleep schedule, etc. and then make a better judgment call. Lithium probably wouldn't do a thing for me.

[lbjnltx]

Ask about adding abilify to her medication regiment.  It can help the anti depressants be more effective.

[heronbird]

I didnt know Lithium was a mood stabiliser,  Dd is on quitipine, so ablify is not necessary.

but she used to be on lamotragine, I think maybe she could go on that again.

[sunshineplease]

One of my NAMI Family-to-Family facilitators had two mentally ill children; one committed suicide. She is adamant that nothing (nothing!) we can do can prevent an adult child from going down that horrible path. And every time someone in the group would say, "But if I draw a boundary, he says he'll kill himself," she reminded us about detachment with love. Even with the worst possible outcome, and with another sick child, she believes all parents can do, really, is take care of ourselves and hope our children take the help we can offer.

Sobering, but it resonated with me. Because the weight of that impossible responsibility not only ruins my life, but (ironically) makes me a less effective parent. And it ruins any chance we have of real connection.

This means that I allow myself, on occasion, to consider the various negative possibilities. I don't know what roads DD will walk down; I do know that no matter how much I love her, I can't stop her from choosing a dangerous path. It's radical acceptance, and it's total suckitude, but one with a silver lining.

What I find encouraging in your posts, Heronbird, is knowing your DD is accepting and getting treatment, that you are respecting her boundaries, and that -- despite the tough situation with her H and SIL -- things are shifting in her life in a way that may make it easier, in the long run, to be healthy. (I can't imagine a more difficult spouse for a pwBPD than someone with OCD!)

Horrible conundrum for us all, and no easy answers. Big hugs... .

[heronbird]

Hi Sunshine

I really agree.

Yesterday when the Police came here looking for her, I wasnt worried about her, I felt I would understand if she did do something drastic.

She did chose the dh, I warned her, we all did. She knew and was aware.

dd is not getting any treatment or help. Thats why her prognosis is not good.

I just texted and offered help or a visit. she just said no. I said Im here for her if she wants me, I love her and always here for her.

She has a horrible future ahead it must be so hard for her. What is she going to do when she comes out of hospital, go out drinking and drugs again like before she was married. What a life.

I had a funny feeling when she was pregnant, she was doing well, so well. I kept thinking, maybe this is my last bit of time with her before I have a terrible time and maybe loose her. Cant believe how well she was when she was pregnant, 8 months of normality for her.

[sunshineplease]

Wow, heronbird, that sure does speak to a hormonal element, doesn't it?

By getting help, I was referring to being in the hospital. Sorry for the confusion. I hope she'll take one of the helping hands being extended her way!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[heronbird]

sunshine,

Haha, I can see the confusion, but in our hospital there is no help. Its just supposed to be a safe place.

Now you can see why I said that, its funny but its so bad there is no help in hospital.

Having said that, I am going to see her doctor in hospital on Monday and nag for her to get a transfer at some point to a BPD day patient hospital or something with therapy for her.

Do you know, they say she has to have 6 good months before they will consider therapy. Is that true?

[sunshineplease]

Do you know, they say she has to have 6 good months before they will consider therapy. Is that true?

That makes no sense to me at all. I hope you can get her the hope she needs and deserves.

[heronbird]

Really, Im going to investigate that now, thank you