guardian at litem

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I think BPD wife is being interviewed Sunday after she visits the kids.   I assume I will be interviewed soon.

Reading the book "splitting" and it says to never mention they suffer from PD.   Is it a good idea to keep this information from the guardian also?

Hoping she just comes across crazy anyways.   Sometimes she can hold it together, but not often.

[suffering_parent]

I think BPD wife is being interviewed Sunday after she visits the kids.   I assume I will be interviewed soon.

Reading the book "splitting" and it says to never mention they suffer from PD.   Is it a good idea to keep this information from the guardian also?

Hoping she just comes across crazy anyways.   Sometimes she can hold it together, but not often.

[sanemom]

Yeah, I wouldn't mention that your ex has a PD.  Focus on describing the behaviors.  Describe how she CAN hold it together at times.

[Matt]

Say what you know.  Don't speculate.  Even if you have a Ph.D. in psychology you couldn't ethically diagnose someone you know personally.

So if she has been diagnosed, you could say, ":)r. Such-And-Such diagnosed her - I read his report - I remember it said she has BPD."  Or, "She told me that she had been diagnosed with BPD."

If she hasn't been diagnosed, say what you know:  "She has done X quite a bit, and Y, and Z.  A friend told me to read about BPD, and from what I've read it lines up pretty well.  Maybe she has BPD."

But if this is a custody issue, spend 90% of your focus on the kids' needs and how you can meet them, and only 10% on your stbX's problems.

[ForeverDad]

It should have explained why.  There are several reasons.  

For one, you're not a doctor and only kids can get away with "playing doctor".  And even if you were a doctor then you'd have to recuse yourself because the individual is a member of your family.

Another reason is that a diagnosis or lack of one is not the most important thing, though it can help.  (For example, a person can be diagnosed an alcoholic yet that may not block parenting since it also depends upon how the person is dealing with his or her alcohol issues.)  Most important are the behaviors and behavior patterns as well as sufficient documentation of incidents to be credible.

That's where you come in.  You're the best eye witness to your spouse's behaviors since often pwBPD don't let loose as much in public as they do at home behind closed doors or other private scenarios such as when driving in a vehicle.  :)ocument the behaviors and patterns and support it with dates, times, locations etc of various incidents.  Saying "he always... . " or "she always... . " without supporting details is mostly disregarded as 'unsubstantiated' allegations or hearsay.  :)ocumentation rules the day.  Yes, you may not have written it all down but do try to give sufficient details that lend credibility to what you say.

As noted above, it is not always bad to mention something about PDs, just be careful not to wave it around like a red flag hoping to get the GAL to chase it like a bull in a bull ring.  That would give the wrong impression.  It's never as simple as one thing, it's an accumulation of information that helps the most.

So what CAN you say or do to give as much help, emphasis and information?  You can shed light on the behaviors, also the behavior patterns.  Have you read up on the 'traits' of PDs such as Borderline, Narcissistic, Antisocial, Histrionic or Paranoid?  Make a list of the ones that fit the most and then go down the list one by one describing HER behaviors and patterns and focus most on the impact to the children.  You're an adult and the court doesn't care much about the impact on you, they focus most on the parenting behaviors of both of you.  Sure, tell them what your spouse does with/to you to fill out the picture but they'll focus most on the kids and so you should too.  I know it sounds crazy, but they really do think that an 'okay' parent can also be blacklisting and framing and doing whatever to the other parent and not see the mismatch.

Depending on your GAL's background, experience and perceptiveness, the GAL may recognize the patterns you describe and thus you can lay all the pieces out and make it easier for the GAL to connect the dots.

My custody evaluator said right at the beginning, "Your spouse's history of majority parenting means a lot, however so does her parenting and yours."  By the way he said it, it was almost like parenting and parenting time had equal importance.  But by the time the report was ready a few months later he had seen enough to rate her past history of Stay At Home Mother (SAHM) parenting as almost a footnote.

Many GALs are lawyers, though some are social workers, etc.  So expect them to have some experience with children and their needs but don't assume too much.  I recall one member who lamented several yeas ago that his GAL was a new inexperienced lawyer just out of law school because more experienced lawyers didn't want to work that cheap.  Can you find out what sort of reputation the GAL has?  Likely it's too late to change to another, but it's nice to have an idea of who you'll be working with for many months to come.

If your GAL is inexpereienced, then there is real risk my spouse could bamboozle the GAL with stories, claims, manipulative tactics and "emotional facts" - claims phrased in such a convincing way that the GAL falls for it.  After all, as disordered as our ex's were and are, they're masters at manipulation.

My son's GAL was said to be one of the best around, but looking back on the past work and I think that with a lawyer background the GAL was too interested in making a recommendation (deal) that didn't go far enough but managed get both sides to agree to it without going forward with the trial.  My lawyer said that if we didn't agree and it went to trial then the judge would likely choose the GAL's middle-of-the-road recommendation anyway.

[suffering_parent]

Thanks for the info.   The GAL is 70 years old and been doing it for a very long time.   She was appointed by the court.   Lawyer says she is indepth and good, but very rigid in her thinking.

I do have a lot of details written down about parenting etc.   Wife was a stay at home mom, but I also worked from home.   She tried, but really struggled with the kids.   I was basically helping non-stop all day.

This worst part of any marriage breaking down with kids is the fact you will begin to miss moments in their lives.   Working at home I have been at their side for everything.   It is really rough thinking about not having them around at times.

[Matt]

This worst part of any marriage breaking down with kids is the fact you will begin to miss moments in their lives.   Working at home I have been at their side for everything.   It is really rough thinking about not having them around at times.

... . and this is one of the toughest things to work through during the custody process:  separating your own needs (like having them around all the time and being there for all those special moments) from the kids' needs.  Focusing on what is best for the kids, which may not always be what is best for you.  You'll need to talk with the GAL and the judge in terms of the kids' needs not yours, and find ways to handle that - maybe with other people and activities, or some other changes to help you manage this - it's hard for me too!

[ForeverDad]

I do have a lot of details written down about parenting etc.   Wife was a stay at home mom, but I also worked from home.   She tried, but really struggled with the kids.   I was basically helping non-stop all day.

This worst part of any marriage breaking down with kids is the fact you will begin to miss moments in their lives.   Working at home I have been at their side for everything.

Then you were a Stay At Home Dad (SAHD) too.  Remember, even SAHMs ae expected to be working in the home too, housework, part time jobs, errands, appointments, etc.  So work is work.  Whether she worked or parented is debatable and I'm sure you'll debate at the right time but don't sell yourself short - just because you 'worked' doesn't mean you weren't SAHD and parenting too.

[suffering_parent]

So she came to visit the kids this weekend.  She RAGED at me worst then I have ever seen.   I recorded the whole thing.   Lawyer suggested it.

She said some really crazy stuff all in front of the kids.   Claimed hells angels were going to put a hit on me.   Told her she had an anger problem and she agreed.   Veins were poppin and she was screaming so loud.   I think she was close to hitting me.

Would a guardien at litem listen to a recording of something like that?

The kids were clearly stressed out by it.   They are used to her meltdowns, but still it was bad.

[Matt]

Was she in your home when she went into this rage?

My concern is that if this continues, she will either get violent - with you or with the kids - or she will call the police and accuse you of violence.  And if that happens, you'll go to jail, and things will get much worse for you and for the kids.

Is it possible to keep her out of your home, so this risk will be lower?

I have not allowed my ex in my home since she accused me of violence, almost 7 years ago.  I don't want any risk that she might do it again.

[livednlearned]

So she came to visit the kids this weekend.  She RAGED at me worst then I have ever seen.   I recorded the whole thing.   Lawyer suggested it.

She said some really crazy stuff all in front of the kids.   Claimed hells angels were going to put a hit on me.   Told her she had an anger problem and she agreed.   Veins were poppin and she was screaming so loud.   I think she was close to hitting me.

Would a guardien at litem listen to a recording of something like that?

The kids were clearly stressed out by it.   They are used to her meltdowns, but still it was bad.

Court doesn't always care so much about behaviors between the adults. Court may think that divorce is good because she will stop raging at you once the two of you no longer live together. A judge or GAL may find concern with a parent who rages in front of the kids, but you can't testify on your kids' behalf. If they felt stressed, you have to describe what you saw, not what the kids said or felt. Speculating how the kids were affected won't be admissible.

Does she rage at the kids? If so, explain to the GAL that you are concerned about your wife's temper. She rages at the kids, and at you -- and at your L's request, you recorded one of these rages. Make it clear that you understand in this incident that her anger is directed at you, but you worry about the impact that rage has on the kids when it is directed at them. If they have been targets of that rage, tell the GAL that.

[suffering_parent]

She does rage at the kids.    She has no patience and screams at all of us

I had to bring her money to pay for their lunch and she told me she hit my son on the hand with a spatula.   I guess he threw a rock at one of our chickens.   I have that recorded also.

She came to our church after her interview to gloat.  She thinks she is going to win custody back and just charmed the guardian into it.   It is a bummer she got interviewed first and of course she can be very charming.

[ForeverDad]

You do need to describe these incidents to the GAL.  Ask your lawyer about the recordings of course, but I think the GAL needs to hear them in order to properly protect the children's interests.  Don't give the GAL an opportunity to claim "no one told me".

I recall the two times I called my local CPS in the year prior to our separation reporting my spouse's rages and how our son was affected (cowering).  The one question both asked was, "Was she raging at your son?"  I had to admit it was all toward me.  I was told to call back if she changed and started raging at him.  One lady added that divorce was probably my solution.

So what was said above, that CPS limits 'concerns' to rages directed toward children, is more or less accurate in most places.  However, now that you are in the divorce process, a GAL has been assigned to represent the children.  It is not in their best interests to be witnesses to the parental conflict, much less being the targets.  Depending on the laws in your area, the GAL may be a MANDATED REPORTER of child abuse.  Upon hearing that the GAL may be required to take prompt action of some sort.  So get a copy of the recording to your lawyer ASAP and follow your lawyer's instructions.  Also, make multiple copies and keep them in safe places ex positively cannot access.

Meanwhile, do not tell your spouse or the children about the recordings.  While telling your spouse may sound like you're being fair, it gives her time to turn the tables on you somehow and weaken the impact of the evidence.  While telling the children you are recording might make you think they'll feel better, they could easily inform on you to their mother.  Many children of BLD/NPD/etc parents are conditioned to comply under interrogations.  Best not to put them in the middle.