How to know when to go?

[ApChagi1]

Lately I really have been struggling with what is the point of being in a relationship with a person with BPD? 

I do all the working, all the housework, leave sweet notes, flowers, presents all the time and it is never ever enough for my dBPDw. 

I know I can never fill the neediness hole inside her, but what is the point if my needs are rarely met?

I feel like she has gotten worse since we've been married, and as much as I think about wanting to separate or divorce, I feel it would be like leaving someone because they have diabetes. 

[eeyore]

The difference is a person with diabetes would take medicine, do their blood work, exercise.  Other illnesses get addressed.  Many Bpd don't try to get help.  What is your wife doing to help herself?

[Aussie0zborn]

Why do we feel guilty when we're innocent?

You'll know when it's time to go - you will ask yourself questions like this... .

I know I can never fill the neediness hole inside her, but what is the point if my needs are rarely met?

But you need to work on yourself beforehand and build yourself up to have the strength, courage and conviction to do what's in your best interests and not waste your life,  if that's what you decide to do. I didn't do enough work on myself and failed so I am paying dearly for it now, like so many others here. You might notice in many posts here that the pwBPD gets worse when the wedding ring goes on. Mine did too so you're not alone there.

People with diabetes lead happy and productive lives, don't suck the life out of you or create misery for the innocent victim. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

[SeekerofTruth]

Aussie:  Right on.

Premarriage:  numerous recyles; back and forth.

Just Before Marriage:  I lay down an ultimatum, in the context of my needs/expectations as it pertains to being on same page, similar goals.  Says she'll do her best.  I subsequently forget about the strength with which i presented the ultimatum prior marriage, that strength from which i came from erodes to weakness.

Upon Marriage:  Tenfold change.  Drama and surrealism ensues.  My intensity escalates, yet rather than walk away i try to make things better (the hook that keeps hooking) which translates into make things better for her, worse for me.   Somehow, she's working against me, i loose sight of self-interests, in essence also working against myself  (self-sabotage, sacrifice).  It just keeps getting deeper and deeper, inch by inch, foot by foot.

Divorce Process:  I want it to end as amicable and as friends... .(idealistic) continue to get kicked before I know another what happend one notch closer to rock bottom.

Interpretation:  married to high functioning NPD/BPD - Black Widow subset.  (sophisticated yet primitive defenses of denial and especially projection... .as the next line of attack.  (note by "next line of attacK" usually means the undermining and damage has been going on for some time unbeknownst to you while waiting for the other shoe to drop, not realizing you've been dangling in the web for some time (or your the mouse whose still ALIVE, but the kitty kat is just playing with you until its time to eat)

Conclusion:  TBD

[heartachedenver]

I have been married for 11 years and my wife's symptoms continue to get worse everytime we have a fight.  Used to be onece a year or so I had to tell someone off (usually my family) for things they didn't do (that my wife manufactured in her head).  Now, it seems like it is every four months or so that the "dooms day" fight comes and the problem is that I would have thought I would be more aware of what will trigger it.  We can go from pure marital bliss and happiness to me moving out in less than 24 hours.  She has anxieity that the entire world is against her and that my family in particular is out to get her anyway that they can.  I wish that leaving was much easier.  Not she wants me to come back or "prove" to her that I love her and that she is No.1 in my life.  Problem is, that in my heart I don't feel like I should have to prove to her I love her and that even if I did, I would fail because she will never accept what I do.  This site is great, the more I reply or post my own comments that more strength I feel emerging deep inside of me to finallly leave or at a very minimum force a stand.  Thank you all.

[SweetCharlotte]

HeartacheD:

Having to tell off relatives on her behalf sounds like something around which you could build a boundary. "I am not your sock puppet." You may get an extinction burst, but this is such an unreasonable expectation on her part that you should be able to free yourself of it.

[Aussie0zborn]

  ... .she wants me to come back or "prove" to her that I love her and that she is No.1 in my life.  Problem is, that in my heart I don't feel like I should have to prove to her I love her and that even if I did, I would fail because she will never accept what I do. 

Very well said. It's like banging your head against a brick wall, only more painful and soul destroying.

[Makeupbykc]

I often wonder why it is so hard to wrap my head around the fact that it's not selfish to take care of you first but I feel awful if I do. I know how you feel.

[suffering_parent]

Usually they will leave.

It is very hard not to be recycled though.   I have been through it a few times in 12 years.   My line is adultery.   Some how my wife has managed not to cross it yet.   I think she is close now though.   I give it a few more weeks.

So draw a line, when its crossed run like hell and don't look back.

[Cipher13]

Mine is physical abuse. But thats eve been an issue thankfully. She hits me once I will be out the door before I even feel the stinging.

[SweetCharlotte]

Infidelity/physical abuse/name-calling/bankrupting me.

Somehow he manages to avoid these by a smidgen and still put me through hell several months per year. We're getting into the part of the year when he behaves himself because he wants a home for the holidays. After Easter there's certain to be some new and unimagined horror.

[Cipher13]

If I added name calling then I would haev only been married for about 6 months not going on 12 years. I have taken the name calling for a long time. I don't even notice it as much. Oh don't get me wrong its as common as can be its just i filter it out as usless background noise.  It makes her even mor eupset that it hasn't triggered a reaction in years.

[eeyore]

Lately I really have been struggling with what is the point of being in a relationship with a person with BPD? 

 

How are you feeling today?

[hurtbyboderline]

When do you leave? When the pain of leaving is less than the pain of staying... .  zzz

[Learning_curve74]

Lately I really have been struggling with what is the point of being in a relationship with a person with BPD? 

I do all the working, all the housework, leave sweet notes, flowers, presents all the time and it is never ever enough for my dBPDw. 

I know I can never fill the neediness hole inside her, but what is the point if my needs are rarely met?

ApChagi1, I'm unfamiliar with your story, what kind of needs do you feel are not being met in your marriage? Are there specific things that you require from your wife to stay in the marriage? Also another way to look at it, in all relationships, we unconsciously run a cost/benefits analysis; we put in a lot of time, effort, and interest into close friends because we feel the benefit of their friendship is worth it, whereas we may only put in a cursory amount of time, effort, and interests into acquaintances because we do not benefit much from them. You can examine what you put into your relationship and what you get out of it. Is the cost to benefit ratio too high or is it acceptable?

This is not to say that couples have to reciprocate equally. Most couples don't earn the same amount of money, so it would be normal that they wouldn't necessarily contribute the same amount monetarily to shared expenses. Also, one person may be more affectionate or more enthusiastic or more social or more what-have-you than the other in a relationship. And sometimes one person may put in more effort than the other. What is fair and what is unfair is up to each person to decide. I guess that for me, it doesn't have to be 50/50, but I'd draw the line at the point where I feel like I'm being used.

I also realized that I have "dealbreakers". For me these are infidelity (I am only interested in a monagamous relationship) and physical violence. There are probably others but I've just never been pushed that far. 

I feel like she has gotten worse since we've been married, and as much as I think about wanting to separate or divorce, I feel it would be like leaving someone because they have diabetes. 

As some others have noted, the analogy between diabetes and BPD doesn't necessarily hold up. Most people with diabetes will try to manage it and are often successful. Many people with BPD deny it and do not do anything to manage it or choose ineffective ways of managing it.

[Holliday]

So draw a line, when its crossed run like hell and don't look back.

My real problem is that when the line gets crossed, I inevitably step back and make a new line... First it was my pwBPD's "I'm gonna kill myself if you leave" or "I'll show you how much I love you by hurting myself" stuff... that's happened many times... now I'm at the point where I just assess how bad it is and get him on with the Crisis Line, drive him to the hospital or call 911 myself...

then it was if he started drinking again (he was in Recovery, now he is "back out" turned him into a dangerous maniac... so now I just shut my phone right off...

Today, infidelity is big for me, but... since my pwBPD has destroyed every shred of trust, I honestly don't know if he's lying today about not cheating... and as of last weekend, there is factual evidence of drunken flirting which is already not cool with me...

Every post I make and every new insight I gain on this site, points right back to the problem being: me... allowing all of this in my life. What a tough pill to swallow.

[Cipher13]

Sometimes the questions isn't when is it time to go as it is "how do finaly leave."

We can draw lines in the sand. Then erase them and draw new ones. At some point its time for the real action not the words. When it stime to leave how does that process work? How does it looke? What do you do? Is it hard as it feels? Do you tell them in advance? Do you secretly make a plan and then leave?

[SeekerofTruth]

Hey Holliday,

It is very tough not to personalize.

What dude is doing is not cool.  Learning about boundaries when one is in over one's head before knowing it (join the club; step in line is a jolt.  But be gentle with your soul.  It is easy to fall into our own self-disparagement or loathing without us even realizing what's running thru our mind cus we've been doing the downward spiral dance, for whatever reason ( wouldn't tell him that), and can get caught up in depression, traumatization, and stuff like that.

What's up with our boundary issues getting violated might be associated with being a caring, loving, and kind person... .but perhaps not being aware of our vulnerability as it relates to maintaining a negative attachment in hopes of it getting better.  To turn towards oneself... .befriending oneself is key to do this inner work, perhaps uncovering co-dependency (when i first heard the term, i asked what the hell is that?  Who?  ME?  HUH?... .) issues that might be about something deeper that contributes to our nonconscious unconscious sabotage of self which is getting re-enacted in real life... .surreal-like, i know.  What the heck, right?

As you step up to accepting responsibility for what is within your control, and taking responsibility for what you can change is a healing journey.

But i ask you to take heart and conside the following thoughts (which i lifted from somewhere else).

"Weakness does not matter if you find solutions"

"If  a problem is identified, and positive behavior is consistently implemented and rewarded, success will naturally follow."

"If you cannot do this by yourself, then get help"

[SeekerofTruth]

C:

Excellent insight and questions.  I'm not experienced enough to share.

  At some point its time for the real action not the words. When it stime to leave how does that process work? How does it looke? What do you do? Is it hard as it feels? Do you tell them in advance? Do you secretly make a plan and then leave? 

[Holliday]

Thank you SeekerofTruth and Cipher13 I really appreciate it. Ironic how I tell my pwBPD that he has to start showing me in actions and not telling me he wants to rebuild - is actually what I need to do by finally making a move. I read on here somewhere, that the real 'win' in these relationships is not assisting the pwBPD to get help... it lies in us ultimately leaving - with what little bits of self respect and self esteem we have left... ... because they can never improve themselves... and we can.

Yes SeekerofTruth, I have thought about codependency as the underlying issue and I'm glad you framed it in this way: the unconscious sabotage of self, being re-enacted in real life. Truth is, although I have had many r/ss, I know nothing about healthy, equal ones. Life without drama seems foreign to me. But I'm learning in being a gentle, kind loving person, that I deserve someone who meets me half way. I'm also learning (the hard way) that I will never find anything healthy or equal staying with him.

Now it's time for action... .thank you both...

[ZigofZag]

When do you leave? When the pain of leaving is less than the pain of staying... .  zzz

Try as I might I could not answer the question more succinctly and to the point. You know when you have reached the point.

[Samuel S.]

To answer your question, I always think where there's life, there's hope. I guess it just takes that one glaring moment when the abuse and the trying become so very exhausting and depressing, that you can't take it anymore, even though there are parts of her that you still may love. I personally have given her so many opportunities to improve by validating, etc., but it still doesn't work. It is a big, cruel mind game that they play with us, which is heartless at best. One thing is for sure. If she ever, ever slaps me or physically hurts me, my suitcases and I go, and I won't look back ever again!