Withdrawal affecting me. Need advice please

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Some background: My udBPDbf and I are in our 40s/50s respectively. We live in different houses in the same city (fine by me right now) and see each other only on weekends. We've been together 3 years now. He's had some serious bouts of depression/dysregulation which have resulted in about 10 breakups. We are currently back together after another of his storms. I think we're both exhausted by it.

I definitely have co-dependent tendencies, validation issues and am overcoming my fear of abandonment, (surprised, right? ) & I'm working with a therapist and doing tons of work on my own. He of course, thinks nothing is wrong from his end, invents ridiculously paranoid scenarios about things he thinks I've done, blames me for them, idealizes me then devalues me, says he wishes he had aborted his son, is venemous toward his ex-wife, colleagues, everyone is out to get him, yadda yadda yadda. Classic. It's not all on him tho' bc--hey, I'm still here, right?

But he really is a wonderful man when he is not dysregulated. He can have empathy, is funny, can be so kind and look at himself critically. But I never post here then- of course.

My question: He knows I like to at least chat for a few minutes each day. It's very important to me - the most important thing I need is daily contact. But when he is dysregulated, he withdraws majorly. Sometimes not contacting me at all, sometimes sending a few token texts. I've told him many times it's important to me to talk daily but he is either unwilling or unable to give me this. Of course, it causes me to confront my own issues, and I have gotten MUCH better about it. So in one sense, I have grown bc of this.

Am I being unreasonable? Should I just let him be and self-soothe? Can anyone shed light about this BPD need to withdraw? Thank you.

[honeybadger]

Some background: My udBPDbf and I are in our 40s/50s respectively. We live in different houses in the same city (fine by me right now) and see each other only on weekends. We've been together 3 years now. He's had some serious bouts of depression/dysregulation which have resulted in about 10 breakups. We are currently back together after another of his storms. I think we're both exhausted by it.

I definitely have co-dependent tendencies, validation issues and am overcoming my fear of abandonment, (surprised, right? ) & I'm working with a therapist and doing tons of work on my own. He of course, thinks nothing is wrong from his end, invents ridiculously paranoid scenarios about things he thinks I've done, blames me for them, idealizes me then devalues me, says he wishes he had aborted his son, is venemous toward his ex-wife, colleagues, everyone is out to get him, yadda yadda yadda. Classic. It's not all on him tho' bc--hey, I'm still here, right?

But he really is a wonderful man when he is not dysregulated. He can have empathy, is funny, can be so kind and look at himself critically. But I never post here then- of course.

My question: He knows I like to at least chat for a few minutes each day. It's very important to me - the most important thing I need is daily contact. But when he is dysregulated, he withdraws majorly. Sometimes not contacting me at all, sometimes sending a few token texts. I've told him many times it's important to me to talk daily but he is either unwilling or unable to give me this. Of course, it causes me to confront my own issues, and I have gotten MUCH better about it. So in one sense, I have grown bc of this.

Am I being unreasonable? Should I just let him be and self-soothe? Can anyone shed light about this BPD need to withdraw? Thank you.

[stronggurl]

Mine does the same thing. In a way its a good thing because he's not raging, in another way it's frustrating and feels passive aggressive. He's protecting himself, but he's also not there for me. It comes across as they know what you want/need, and that's exactly what they won't give you. How long is too long to put up with this when you know it's probably not going to change?

[dreamer321]

honeybadger:

I feel your pain-I am in a similar situation as you are. He is 14 years older than me-and when he shuts down-it feels very passive aggressive. as though he is withholding his love from me although-like has been mentioned before-he is self protecting. I have never ever in my life known someone so immature and insecure as this man. It usually has to do with his perceived jealousy. I know about the fights too-they come out of nowhere. As to your question. I think what I have read and experienced in my relationship-is that they get overwhelmed so easily and focus and overfocus on one aspect and turn it around and around-and it comes out so that they are once again-the victim, and you become the bad guy. I am co-dependent too and also an empath-everything affects me so strong-hang in there-you are among friends!

[Scarlet Phoenix]

... .he is either unwilling or unable to give me this. Of course, it causes me to confront my own issues, and I have gotten MUCH better about it. So in one sense, I have grown bc of this.

Am I being unreasonable? Should I just let him be and self-soothe? Can anyone shed light about this BPD need to withdraw? Thank you.

Are you being unreasonable in wanting to talk?

No, it's quite a reasonable request. Where it gets you into troubled waters is the fact that you want something that's normal and reasonable, but you're dealing with a disorder. So what's logical and normal doesn't apply in the same way as in other relationships.

Should you just let him be and self-soothe? Short answer: yes.

For our partners, it's important to learn to self-sooth. And for us, it's important to face our own issues that are triggered by our partners withdrawing. They have a great fear of enmeshment and intimacy and loss of control, yet they long for it at the same time. That creates a push-pull dynamic where they pull you close and then push you away.

[honeybadger]

Thank you, Scarlet... .I needed to hear this. But what if they are withholding communication to punish? I am going to assume they are not... .but just so I know?

[Scarlet Phoenix]

In general, a pwBPD don't do it out of spite. They're focused on themselves, their suffering, their needs, their emotions... there's no room for thoughts about how it might affect you. You don't figure into the equation.

My dBPDbf said to me not long ago that when he gets dysregulated, it's not use trying to calm him down. He said: "It's like you're was standing on a beach and I'm a 10 foot wave crashing down on you and you're trying to contain it. You can't. You need to get out of the way." It's not the same situation, but I think the emotions behind work the same. The feelings are strong and out of control and take up all the space. So what you as a partner feel is not a concern.

There are some members here who have partners with a mix of BPD and NPD traits (narcissistic personality disorder), and that's different. Someone with NPD might do it to punish you, correctly calculating that it will hurt you.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

I forgot:

Of course, he might feel very hurt by something you did or said, and in his dysregulated state he feels he has every right not to talk to you, because you were acting so hurtful towards him.

I'm not saying that you did or said something terrible, just that his logic might follow that pattern.

[honeybadger]

The last conversation we had, it seemed like he was not upset at me. And now that I think about it, he just attended a funeral yesterday so I guess he is just needing space. I dated an NPD before. Definitely don't think my bf is NPD too. Thank you for your grounding comments, Scarlet!

[eyvindr]

honeybadger and stronggurl,

Good questions -- I'm sorry you're both dealing with trying to sort these things out.

I feel compelled to play devil's advocate here for a minute, because both of the quotes below could easily be things my exBPDgf accused me of doing a hundred times a month!

My question: He knows I like to at least chat for a few minutes each day. It's very important to me -- the most important thing I need is daily contact. But when he is dysregulated, he withdraws majorly. Sometimes not contacting me at all, sometimes sending a few token texts. I've told him many times it's important to me to talk daily but he is either unwilling or unable to give me this.

Mine does the same thing. In a way its a good thing because he's not raging, in another way it's frustrating and feels passive aggressive. He's protecting himself, but he's also not there for me. It comes across as they know what you want/need, and that's exactly what they won't give you. How long is too long to put up with this when you know it's probably not going to change?

The line between "needs" and "preferences" can sometimes be pretty blurry. Everyone has different needs, and everyone has different levels of comfort with contact. Sometimes, this can be worked through with mutual compromise, but other times, two people are just mismatched.

I hear both of you saying that, to an extent, you are relying on your guys for some kind of validation. What makes that different from what a pwBPD does to us?

[honeybadger]

Touche, Eyvindr! Thanks, you bring up a good point. And I have been working on this, bc I have realized recently how much power I have been giving up by relying on others to validate me.

And yes, to be fair, I guess the daily contact is a preference. And he usually gives this to me, let's say 10-11 months out of 12.

But what I am really driving at is that our everyday pattern changes when he's dysregulated (understatement of the year). It shakes me up to my core. And that's my issue. I'd like to be unshakable but I'm human and have needs/preferences too I just can't expect things from him that I normally get from him when he's like this.

I need to chuck the rose-colored glasses.

[eyvindr]

Kudos to you, honeybadger, for the self-awareness!

Yes -- the change in patterns is a big thing with BPDers. Until I got a handle on truly understanding how pervasive the illness is -- in that it affects almost all areas of there lives, even things that seem trivial -- I was always taken aback when my exBPDgf would one day rake me over the coals for some perceived slight, then the next do the same or worse, and not understand why I'd get upset!

Like, she'd grill me endlessly about some post a female acquaintance made on my FB page, then scold me about how it's inappropriate and disrespectful to her as my partner. Then she'd turn around and tell me, "well, I need more social interaction. I'm just going to start having friends over during the week when you don't have time to see me."

It's hard for partners of pwBPD to continually make the needed adjustments. I used to try to explain it to my ex -- how it felt like sometimes I'd have to emotionally drop from 5th gear to 2nd without having enough time to slow down, and how that was "hard on the engine," so to speak! She'd have these outbursts, and my feelings would get hurt, and then she would forget about it and move on, while I'd still need time to decompress and process everything -- so she'd accuse me of holding grudges, or -- one of her favorites -- "keeping score."

This coming from the same person who'd get irate if she counted more FB "likes" than txt msgs from me! Who has the energy, let alone the time, to worry about this kind of stuff! It can make you crazy!

[Scarlet Phoenix]

I need to chuck the rose-colored glasses.

When we are being real, seeing the true them and the true us is when we can really start to work on change

[stronggurl]

Not sure if I'm "relying on him" to provide validation, is that the same as expecting him to be concerned when I tell him about some issue I'm facing (unrelated to him)? Isn't empathy/attention part of a normal monogamous relationship?  I get that he isn't capable of expressing empathy and/or giving me attention when I need it, but I still don't like it. I believe it's a normal expectation. No matter what his mental state is, I will still strive to get what I need out of the relationship. I don't have radical acceptance of his behavior and am deeply considering if I can go on with this.

[Aussie0zborn]

Cipher... .I could only read half of that text communication as it made me sick. I made a rule early on... .if there are more than three texts, then it's time to pickup the phone and talk - no more texts.  Our text discussions were not effective, things were misconstrued and, like your text exchanges, just made the issue worse. So, no more than three texts.

The suggestions proffered by others would be a good way of handling these tirades. Right now it sounds like you are in a vulnerable position and I've been there myself. Nothing will change unless you make those changes yourself.  Are you contemplating leaving?

[Samuel S.]

The basis of any relationship is the ability to talk with one another, if not in person daily, then on the phone daily. He can all the empathy he wants, but he also needs to empathetic to you. Also, it needs to be a dialog in which the both of you can interact equally, thus being heard, respected, thus allowing the relationship to evolve. If he wishes to not communicate with you on a regular basis, it sounds like closeness is an issue for him. My BPDw purposefully avoids bonding, and it hurts me tremendously. When we do talk, it's always about her and very little dialoging. She demands attention, because she was never heard when she was younger with her parents. Now that she's older and married to me, she's doing the same thing as her parents. 

[dreamer321]

Hang in there -I am almost in the same boat as you-This is our final break up because I will not go back to him. I love him as much as I have ever loved anyone-but I simply cannot live with a manipulator. I am patient and kind and empathetic-but it comes down to just not wanting to be a washing machine-going through the cycles, the agitation, rinse, and repeat-for the rest of my life. I respect myself more than that. I deserve more than that-as do you or anyone.  To live with someone who sucks the life out of you and does not know how to treat you, makes it very difficult-even though we understand them-and love them-does not mean we have to be in a relationship with them.  I cried today over mine. Mourned it. I am allowing myself to be sad and grieve it so that I can rebuild my life. Good luck to you. I am doing this for me-and so should you. Remember to take care of yourself first. Learn the tools to do that and then-get honest. and real. Thank you.

[eyvindr]

I feel you, dreamer.

I am patient and kind and empathetic-but it comes down to just not wanting to be a washing machine-going through the cycles, the agitation, rinse, and repeat-for the rest of my life. I respect myself more than that. I deserve more than that-as do you or anyone.  To live with someone who sucks the life out of you and does not know how to treat you, makes it very difficult-even though we understand them-and love them-does not mean we have to be in a relationship with them.

Me, too. I'm done. Was NC for about a month, only to have it broken by my ex about a week ago, when she showed up at my house at eleven o'clock, unannounced. After an entire month of NC -- during which she sent me HUNDREDS of emails and txt msgs, not ONE of which I responded to -- she shows up, uninvited and unannounced, claiming that there just must be a "misunderstanding." Has proceeded to scold/lecture/rant/demean and curse me for the past 2 weeks -- and it's been a complete crash course in circular arguing (if I needed one after 2 yrs with her). She rants and abuses -- but insists that I'm the primary abuser ("my therapist, friends and support group told me so", I'm in denial (no contact for a month, and she didn't realize we were broken up?), and is refusing to let go -- for reasons I can't fathom, because, if I'm the "heinous jerk" that she describes, I can't for the life of me understand why SHE didn't leave me. If it weren't sad, it would be comical -- how she can absolutely RAGE at me -- call me names, insult me, swear -- because she's "angry" over how I left her -- I just stopped calling her after she TOLD me to leave her alone for a weekend. But refers to the times when I yelled at her -- out of frustration and exasperation -- as abusive. Even after the r/s is over, the double standard is alive and well.