Shame vs guilt

[fromheeltoheal]

I recently learned the distinction between shame and guilt: guilt is behavior based and shame is identity based.  Guilt says I did something bad, I made a mistake; shame says I am bad, I am a mistake.  Major distinction for me, since I didn't even know there was a difference.

The good news is everyone experiences shame, so sorry, I don't get to be unique about that.  My question for you folks is what do you do about it?  I spent my youth drinking and doing drugs, which masked the shame but added guilt.  Then I wised up and started running, figuratively and literally, and learned if I ran fast enough I could outrun those feelings of shame and guilt.  Then I got tired, started digging deeper for answers, and discovered a lot of behavior-based solutions, goal setting, achievement, 'success', which did bolster my self esteem, but somehow just wasn't getting to the core of it.

Then the blessing that was my BPD ex showed up.  The boundary busting, abuse and all the other crap was so painful and blatantly what I didn't want or need that I was forced to ask the questions what do I want? and what do I need?  Answers: compassion, empathy and validation.  Simple.  And yes, we can give those things to ourselves, but they are much stronger coming from others.  So how to do that?  I've spent a large part of my life 'treating others the way I want to be treated', figuring anyone would treat me well if I treated them well.  Not so.  Some people are not willing and some aren't capable. I've learned recently that I need to be vigilant about who I let into my life, enforce boundaries, notice what I'm getting from people.

And that's the solution to shame: compassion, empathy and validation from other people, the right people.  It seems elusive so far, new to me, focusing on getting from other people instead of giving, which the People Pleaser in me has always done, hoping to somehow get having given.  And the chances of getting my needs met are higher if I ask for what I want and need, and enforce boundaries.

Anyone experience shame?  What do you do about it?

[seeking balance]

Love this topic 

Part of my own healing was accepting myself as human with flaws - truly being ok with it.  A spiritual connection has helped with this and I tend to pull from many teachings into a spirituality that makes sense to me.

I have started treating myself the way I would like others to treat me - kindness, compassion, etc.

I have also learned to ask for my needs to be met by trusted friends/family and not expect those that have proven over and over not capable to meet my needs.  I guess this would be Radical Acceptance.

Do you know your love language? (5 Love Languages is a book)  It's funny, but how we show and how we like love shown (not always romantic) is important to having our worth acknowledged by others.  Most people think love as romantic, and that has its place, but learning about mine and others has given me much more of an appreciation.  I realize now how to show and ask for what I need based on this with all the people close to me.  My core friend group all has taken the quiz and we now can joke about "hey, you know my love language - this is me showing my appreciation".

Gratitude - this practice seems to water down shame.  Being grateful on a daily basis is a discipline and I can tell a direct correlation to my mood when I am practicing this versus "get too busy".

Great stuff fromheeltoheal - I look forward to seeing this thread progress.

[Surnia]

Fromheeltoheal

Great topic.

I had so much shame - and felt even shame to have it. It was longtime the most uncomfortable feeling. I couldn't understand it, could not really deal with it.

Since I read Brene Browns books it is much better for me. Yes, knowing that all have it and that shame is related to being social its much better for me. 

[fromheeltoheal]

Do you know your love language? (5 Love Languages is a book)  It's funny, but how we show and how we like love shown (not always romantic) is important to having our worth acknowledged by others. 

I haven't read the book, but I have studied evidence procedure; how do we know someone loves us?  Is it a look, something they say, something they do, a touch?  Someone could love us immensely but we don't know it or believe it because they aren't showing us in a way that we understand as love; love language is a good descriptor for that.  The solution for me is to know how I know someone loves me, for me they have to say it, congruently.  And to reciprocate, I need to ask people how they know they are loved, so I can express it to them in their language if I do love them.  This stuff is risky and takes courage, and ties into boundaries for me; don't just barge into it with any old person, make sure it's right to let someone in first.

Gratitude - this practice seems to water down shame.  Being grateful on a daily basis is a discipline and I can tell a direct correlation to my mood when I am practicing this versus "get too busy".

Thank you.  I've created gratitude lists and focused on it before, and you're right it does dilute shame.  Time for new discipline.

Since I read Brene Browns books it is much better for me.

Thank you.  Off to Amazon... .

[seeking balance]

Since I read Brene Browns books it is much better for me. Yes, knowing that all have it and that shame is related to being social its much better for me. 

I agree 110% on her work - it honestly helped me reframe shame and vulnerability more than any other thing for me this last year.

If you can pull up OWN network - her 2 part series with Oprah is a great appetizer until the books come fromheeltoheal.

**clever screen name btw**

[Clearmind]

I was a master at shame! Positive self talk certainly helped me and also understanding more about what shame is rather than being something elusive. Its not always as easy as it sounds! I still struggle with shame.

Good topic.

[Blazing Star]

Yes. Shame is familiar and a work in progress. For me it is specific things that trigger the feeling, often an event or a memory, when I peel it back I see that my 'not enough' button has been pushed.

A couple of things that have helped me recently are Brene Brown talking about choices we make in our lives. So if I feel shame about something I try to reframe it and give myself a little pep talk "hmmm, so that wasn't the wisest choice to make there Blazing Star, that's okay, you are not the sum total of your choices"

Also this random quote really resonated with me:

"No one has the right to judge you. They may have heard the stories, but they didn't feel what you felt in your heart"

- when I am experiencing shame I have realised that I am often judging myself really harshly, and I remind myself that it isn't this simple, that there are layers to this story, and I must be gentle on myself.

I have a debt that I had my head in the sand about, and I there is a lot of shame around this, reminding myself that I would choose differently now helps. As does reminding myself what was going on in my heart and head at the time. I take some breaths and do some mindfulness around the feeling, I expand my breath around it, and hold it gently and invite it to let go, I try to let go of judgement and breath in compassion. I tell myself that I am indeed enough.

I am indeed enough. Simple and true and confronting all at once.

Great thread, thank you.

Love Blazing Star

[musicfan42]

DBT skills are helping me to recognize when I feel shame and guilt. That's the stage I'm at right now. I haven't begun to get onto the stage of "what do you do with those feelings?" I honestly don't know the answer to that. Even recognizing these feelings and dealing with traumatic memories from the past feels like a miracle to me.

[fromheeltoheal]

Even recognizing these feelings and dealing with traumatic memories from the past feels like a miracle to me.

a healthy path you're on!

Yes Blazing Star, the feelings of "less than" and "not good enough" are very familiar to me too, and I think all humans on some level.  I've done a lot of work on reframing, identifying and replacing disempowering beliefs, taking care of my health and fitness, all of which are effective, and lately I've noticed there is nothing better than supportive people.  A BPD doesn't qualify, duh, but that pain was motivational.  It doesn't matter how much work we do, we will always have down days and such, and having the safety net of supportive others is invaluable.  And I've learned that what I need, and I learned it because I was getting the exact opposite from her, is compassion, empathy and validation, all things I can give myself, but they seem so much more powerful coming from other people who legitimately care.  Enforce our boundaries and let the right people in and things seem so much easier, the social animals that we are.

[musicfan42]

Thanks fromheeltoheal-I need that vote of confidence right now.

I was told that I was "my own worst enemy" yesterday and it triggered a lot of shame within me. It triggered a lot of anger within me too however I knew not to act on it. I was worried that I'd be called out on all my mistakes and shamed even more yet I resent this person now for saying it to me. I don't think it was a constructive comment to make-it was judgmental, bhity, harsh... It reminded me of emotional invalidation in the past. It just sucked. I had a cry over it in private last night and then brushed it off today-got on with my day. I needed to just cry and get it out of my system.

I normally have a lot of positive things to contribute to threads here so it's a bit of a bummer that I don't have anything for this particular one... but yeah, that's it...

[fromheeltoheal]

I've been called my own worst enemy before, with empathy by someone who cares about me, and it was true.  There have been times where people who like and care about me think much more highly of me than I do of myself, and get confused and frustrated when I don't or can't consider myself as awesome as they do.  That's the shame talking, that the nice, successful, accomplished guy that I am still isn't good enough in my own head.  The key I've learned is to communicate what's going on with me openly and honestly, risky, and sometimes met with judgement or scorn if I trust the wrong ears, but in light of my new path, worth the risk.

It sounds like whoever told you you're 'my own worst enemy' wasn't coming from a loving place, but it may be accurate anyway, for you to decide, and those are the types of people I have no room for in my life anymore.

[musicfan42]

Thanks for your kind response fromheeltoheal

I've been called my own worst enemy before, with empathy by someone who cares about me, and it was true.  There have been times where people who like and care about me think much more highly of me than I do of myself, and get confused and frustrated when I don't or can't consider myself as awesome as they do.  That's the shame talking, that the nice, successful, accomplished guy that I am still isn't good enough in my own head.

Yeah-this all applies to my situation. The only thing that is different is that I'm female.

 

I've calmed down now and realized that the "you're your own worst enemy" comment is actually true. I probably over-reacted to it.

[sheepdog]

Shame seems to be my bff... .