Moving forward...back to court

[Free One]

Well, it's true that setting boundaries can cause conflict. That's why lots of us here avoid setting boundaries. But with BPD, the problem is that if we don't set boundaries, they create different kinds of conflict that make it hard for us to do our jobs, which is to protect our kids from BPD behavior.

I think we have to ask ourselves, ":)id I create this situation?", and "Am I doing what I believe is right, and doing it for the right motives?"

Remember, it wasn't your choice to be faced with these choices - you're faced with these choices - none of them really good - because of what the other party did.

So if sometimes things get confusing, and you wonder if you made all the right decisions, welcome to the club.  We're handed weird choices and we make the best call we can.  We weren't taught this stuff in school.

Thanks Matt. You are right, I'm doing this for the right reasons, and I'm making the best decisions I can with the information I have. It's nice to know it's "normal" to feel this way.

[Free One]

I hope that you can find your peace in this situation.  It is way more complicated when you add innocent kids into the mix.

Thank you. I think, this will always be my issue - can I ever find peace in a situation where my son is being hurt (emotionally, not physically)?

[livednlearned]

Did something happen that created more conflict for my son? Yes, it did, but not in regards to my case and nothing I did. Just more changes at dad's house, which causes internal conflict and confusion for son. So, in light of your question, I am asking myself why I feel bad about it. It is nothing I caused and in fact, is more reason why I should feel confident in my actions.

It's a matter of I still hear ex's voice in my head telling me I don't have a right to know what's going on or a right to ask for what I need or, quite frankly, a right for anything. I still hear that tape of "you don't deserve... .you aren't good enough... .you are wrong... .". Ugh. I want to click erase and have them all gone. At least identifying this is a start.

Yeah, we can't really say to our kids, "That thing your dad did, that sucked. Here's why. Don't you wish you had a different dad?"

But you can look for parallels. S12 and I will watch movies and inevitably there will be something that comes up that is like a situation in his life. Someone pretends to be kind, but isn't. Someone shows vulnerability, and is exploited by someone supposedly trustworthy. I'll say, "That guy is tricky. He says something, and then he does something, but that doesn't match with what his friend is thinking he means. I feel bad about the friend, because he's getting played." I don't preach, and don't even expect a conversation. I just toss it out there as my opinion.

Sometimes S12 will get into it, other times he'll just sit quietly and not say anything. I absolutely believe he is taking my perspective into consideration, even if he doesn't fully understand the connections to real circumstances. 

When there is parental alienation, we have to be so careful that we don't vilify the other parent, but that doesn't mean we can't call out the behaviors when we see it being acted out in movies or parallel situations.

I'm about to start doing this with the triangulation stuff that S12's dad does. You know how it goes, though. It can be so complex it's sometimes hard to find parallels. In my example, N/BPDx keeps asking S12 to do "righteous" things like deliver food to women's shelters. O, the irony. He'll ask S12 to go, then blame me for not letting S12 go. We've been watching Harry Potter movies recently, waiting for Voldemort to hand me my teaching moment 

[Matt]

Talking about talking to kids... .

It helped me to read (but not post) on the "Parents With PBD" board - where members talk about what it was like growing up with a parent who had BPD.

One of the common themes is, "I wish my other parent had acknowledged what was going on."  Like if Dad was abusive, and Child said something to Mom, but Mom said "Oh he's just a little tired."  The non-BPD parent often dismissed the child's perceptions and feelings, and the child felt like "Maybe I'm the one that's crazy."

The lesson is, it's super-important to validate the child's own perceptions and feelings - not to impose yours (though it can be OK to share them in appropriate ways) but to hear what the child says, and pick up other signals, and recognize the child's reality.  ":)ad's so mean!"  "It sounds like he said something kind of hurtful to you."  When you say it, in an accepting way, the child sees that her perceptions and feelings are OK, and she doesn't need to keep them hidden or try to change them.  It's up to the adult to change his behavior, not the child to act like everything is OK.

Hard to do, without slipping over into trashing the ex... .

[Free One]

I've been focus more on the tips here. Teachable moments, and it has been helpful. I am working on meditating as well and am feeling in a much better place this week.

The newest in my case is ex is now doing something else that is contemptible. When I asked him to remedy it, he said he will only respond to requests from my lawyer. Lovely. Just spent another at least $50 so my lawyer can ask his lawyer to do something.

[Matt]

The newest in my case is ex is now doing something else that is contemptible. When I asked him to remedy it, he said he will only respond to requests from my lawyer. Lovely. Just spent another at least $50 so my lawyer can ask his lawyer to do something.

If it's something that is way out of bounds, so there can't be any argument about whether it's OK or not, I would probably ask to be compensated for my lawyer's time.  Make it clear that if your ex's behavior, and his refusal to deal with you directly, add to your legal costs, you will expect him to compensate you, and if he doesn't, you'll ask the court to order him to.  (But if you have to ask the court, you'll need to add the extra costs for that process too.)

[Free One]

I'm already asking for him to pay my L fees in the whole contempt process. Still waiting on a court date for the already filed motions. It's just that he is doing things that would be additional counts now.

[Matt]

What does your ex's lawyer say about all this?  Is he trying to reign in his client?

[Free One]

What does your ex's lawyer say about all this?  Is he trying to reign in his client?

I can't read his L on this yet. From what I understand, she is trying to get him to be compliant on contempt issues. I always wonder how honest he really is with her though. I have the unique perspective on his L because she was the same L a good friend used during her divorce from a possible NPD. It think she's fair and reasonable.

[Matt]

What does your ex's lawyer say about all this?  Is he trying to reign in his client?

I can't read his L on this yet. From what I understand, she is trying to get him to be compliant on contempt issues. I always wonder how honest he really is with her though. I have the unique perspective on his L because she was the same L a good friend used during her divorce from a possible NPD. It think she's fair and reasonable.

If she is fair and reasonable, maybe your lawyer can show her some information so her perception of her own client will be more accurate.

Here's an example:

The night we separated, unexpectedly, my wife became violent, and tore up all my sheet music - a very childish and out-of-control thing to do.  We both spent that night in jail, and when I got home, my kids had scotch-taped the sheets back together, which was really cute.  The police had written in their report that she tore up the sheet music, but she denied it.  I gave the papers - a few dozen songs - to my lawyer, who showed them to my wife's lawyer, and that helped my wife's lawyer see that she had been lied to - along with quite a few other things - my wife was telling her a bunch of stuff that the evidence showed wasn't true.

Of course my wife's lawyer couldn't say that out loud - she never said, "Well I guess my client is lying and your client is the good guy here."  But she quit accusing me of stuff based on what my wife said, and started working with my lawyer to find solutions, and convince my wife to go along.

Maybe your lawyer can try that too - probably a little at a time - just showing the other attorney information so she can form her own conclusions.  "I thought I would share this with you - it's the sheet music Ms. Matt tore up that night.  The kids taped it back together.  I know there were some different things said about this - maybe seeing it will give you some insight as to your client's state of mind."

[livednlearned]

Of course my wife's lawyer couldn't say that out loud - she never said, "Well I guess my client is lying and your client is the good guy here."  But she quit accusing me of stuff based on what my wife said, and started working with my lawyer to find solutions, and convince my wife to go along.

Maybe your lawyer can try that too - probably a little at a time - just showing the other attorney information so she can form her own conclusions.  "I thought I would share this with you - it's the sheet music Ms. Matt tore up that night.  The kids taped it back together.  I know there were some different things said about this - maybe seeing it will give you some insight as to your client's state of mind."

I'm pretty sure that's what happened in my case. N/BPDx's lawyer went from advocating hard for him, to withdrawing from the case. I could see during the deposition that his lawyer changed his mind about me. My lawyer said N/BPDx's lawyer was known for being a really involved, loving dad, and he truly cared about the kids in the divorce. When he couldn't reign in N/BPDx and saw his real character, he withdrew from the case.

If your ex has a decent lawyer, and she can't reign him in, she will start to give him guarded advice, especially if she's worried about your son. I know that's what happened in my case -- both the PC and my lawyer told me n/BPDx's lawyer was alarmed by his client. Enough to get off the case.

[sanemom]

The problem with the lawyers withdrawing from the cases is all the delays and continuances that results in.

But it is what it is... .better than a lawyer who accuses you of all kinds of crazy stuff, I guess.

I noticed that DH's BPD ex at first was trying to make our lawyer doubt us and our credibility.  Fortunately, he didn't buy it.  Once she realized she couldn't get him to believe her lies, she started spreading rumors through her then-attorney that DH's lawyer and I were intimate together.  It was crazy... .

[Nope]

Kid' BPD mom will be on lawyer #4 by the time we go back to court. Her first one got frustrated with her (was actually overheard in the court waiting area talking to another lawyer about her) and she fired him after round 1 was over. The new lawyer came sweeping in to save her in round 2 and called my fiance "a bully" several times on the stand. She asked for, and got, a judge to order meditation under the thought that her client would be reasonable. When she found out her client actually would not be she and BPD mom got in a big enough argument about it that BPD mom got a new lawyer two weeks before round 3 and was given a continuance. Lawyer number three swooped in to save her like lawyer number 2 had but we never got to even meet this one because she got an early taste of BPD mom's unreasonable behavior and asked to be removed before the new round 3 date.

Round 3 is contempt and custody. I can't wait until she tells a million lies to whoever lawyer #4 is and we give them our evidence two weeks before trial. I strongly suspect he or she will want out at that point so yeah probably another wait. If she is going to go through lawyers like she goes through boyfriends there is nothing we can do but hang on for the ride.

[Free One]

Maybe your lawyer can try that too - probably a little at a time - just showing the other attorney information so she can form her own conclusions.  "I thought I would share this with you - it's the sheet music Ms. Matt tore up that night.  The kids taped it back together.  I know there were some different things said about this - maybe seeing it will give you some insight as to your client's state of mind."

Good advice!

[Free One]

Update here: Ex's lawyer withdrew a couple months ago and ex said he would be pro se. He missed the pretrial conference, then showed up on the trial date asking for a public defender. The judge was obviously annoyed, but granted him the request. BUT the judge also ordered him to pay my attorney fees for preparing for trial, since our time was wasted. A small victory on that front, but the trial will now have to be rescheduled and won't happen for a couple more months.

[sanemom]

A small victory on that front, but the trial will now have to be rescheduled and won't happen for a couple more months.

Glad for the small victory.  These things seem to drag on for months... .