Accepting it might end is the hardest part...

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I’m in the midst of an in house separation with my uBDBw of 10 years. I’ve moved my stuff into the office and am sleeping on the couch in there. We have 2 boys, 5 and 7, who are the main reason I’m still there. Things came to a head a few months ago when I found out my wife was having an emotional affair with a single dad in our group of friends (texting him all day long, first text in the morning last at night, etc…). I’m fairly certain it wasn’t physical yet, but she denied when I confronted her about it and we had the divorce conversation. The short of it was that we ended up with an in-house separation.

I wasn’t even aware of BPD at the time and our marriage had frankly devolved into a long series of arguments where she would become angry about something or accuse of me some minor infraction (my favorite was an argument because I didn’t butter muffins properly?) and I would attempt to argue logically with her to no effect. The last year or two I'd essentially given up, just ignoring her when she got angry and doing my thing. In retrospect I haven’t been particularly healthy in a while and have largely been shut down emotionally. When we first got married I went out of my may to accommodate her requests to make her happy, but of course nothing was ever enough and no matter what I did it wasn’t good enough. I went through a passive aggressive phase for a bit, hiding or lying about things that I thought would set her off. Not really anything I’m too proud of. Eventually I grew a pair and just started weathering the anger and doing what I thought I should but by that point she’d painted me almost entirely black. I’m the cause of all her unhappiness, I can’t be trusted, I can’t be relied upon, I never do anything right so she has to do it all herself, etc… I hate to say it but for a long time I started to believe some of that.

I spent a lot of time on repair attempts early on in this whole separation process until I came across BPD and started seeing a therapist myself. I’m gradually realized that perhaps this is her problem and not mine and have been making an effort to take care of myself and set some boundaries with her. Its remarkable how much better it feels just knowing that its an illness and being able to put a name to it.

The biggest challenge for me has been accepting the fact that I may lose her and really coming to terms with the idea that my marriage might end. It’s been much easier for me since I’ve accepted that things might not work out (even though I want them to) and have started planning/thinking about a life after divorce. At the same time, I’ve been making an big effort to validate her feelings, not to argue with her all the time, and to instead follow some of the communication strategies suggested on the site. She’s been as low as I’ve ever seen her during this whole thing and it’s not unusual to hear her say that she always screws things up or she’s a waste of space, etc... .when we start talking about things. I feel so blind to have never really seen how much she was hurting inside before and it tears me up to hear her say this stuff. At the end of the day I love her and would really like to find a way to both help her through this and save our marriage.

Which brings me to my problem and my question. The things that I’m doing to keep myself healthy and to improve my outlook (time with friends, stopping all the repair attempts, setting boundaries, spending more time with the kids and focusing on being a better dad, focusing on work) are all seen by her as me “setting her up” for a divorce later and she often speculates that we should “just end it now”. I tell her that I’m sorry to hear that she feels that way and that I certainly don’t want to end things, that I love her, etc… but if that’s what she feels she needs to do then it’s her choice, etc… I try to do this as calmly as possible but I am terrified inside that all the things I’m doing to keep myself healthy are pushing her away further. It feels like such a catch 22.

To make things worse, our boys used to come crawl in bed with us fairly regularly in the middle of the night- more the 5 year old than the 7 but both on occasion. This has always been a good thing, but now that I’m in the office they come crawl in bed with me almost all the time and rarely do so with her. I’ve always had a great relationship with the boys but lately anytime they express a preference for me she starts lamenting that she’s not appreciated and that she might as well not be here, etc…  I’m certainly not going to stop being a good dad to my boys to accommodate her insecurities and I try to validate her feelings while pointing out that they do love her, etc… but again this feels like such a catch 22. I shouldn’t have to feel guilty that my kids love me!

Anyway, I’d appreciate any suggestions or advice about the above two challenges.

[CS4Ever]

I’m in the midst of an in house separation with my uBDBw of 10 years. I’ve moved my stuff into the office and am sleeping on the couch in there. We have 2 boys, 5 and 7, who are the main reason I’m still there. Things came to a head a few months ago when I found out my wife was having an emotional affair with a single dad in our group of friends (texting him all day long, first text in the morning last at night, etc…). I’m fairly certain it wasn’t physical yet, but she denied when I confronted her about it and we had the divorce conversation. The short of it was that we ended up with an in-house separation.

I wasn’t even aware of BPD at the time and our marriage had frankly devolved into a long series of arguments where she would become angry about something or accuse of me some minor infraction (my favorite was an argument because I didn’t butter muffins properly?) and I would attempt to argue logically with her to no effect. The last year or two I'd essentially given up, just ignoring her when she got angry and doing my thing. In retrospect I haven’t been particularly healthy in a while and have largely been shut down emotionally. When we first got married I went out of my may to accommodate her requests to make her happy, but of course nothing was ever enough and no matter what I did it wasn’t good enough. I went through a passive aggressive phase for a bit, hiding or lying about things that I thought would set her off. Not really anything I’m too proud of. Eventually I grew a pair and just started weathering the anger and doing what I thought I should but by that point she’d painted me almost entirely black. I’m the cause of all her unhappiness, I can’t be trusted, I can’t be relied upon, I never do anything right so she has to do it all herself, etc… I hate to say it but for a long time I started to believe some of that.

I spent a lot of time on repair attempts early on in this whole separation process until I came across BPD and started seeing a therapist myself. I’m gradually realized that perhaps this is her problem and not mine and have been making an effort to take care of myself and set some boundaries with her. Its remarkable how much better it feels just knowing that its an illness and being able to put a name to it.

The biggest challenge for me has been accepting the fact that I may lose her and really coming to terms with the idea that my marriage might end. It’s been much easier for me since I’ve accepted that things might not work out (even though I want them to) and have started planning/thinking about a life after divorce. At the same time, I’ve been making an big effort to validate her feelings, not to argue with her all the time, and to instead follow some of the communication strategies suggested on the site. She’s been as low as I’ve ever seen her during this whole thing and it’s not unusual to hear her say that she always screws things up or she’s a waste of space, etc... .when we start talking about things. I feel so blind to have never really seen how much she was hurting inside before and it tears me up to hear her say this stuff. At the end of the day I love her and would really like to find a way to both help her through this and save our marriage.

Which brings me to my problem and my question. The things that I’m doing to keep myself healthy and to improve my outlook (time with friends, stopping all the repair attempts, setting boundaries, spending more time with the kids and focusing on being a better dad, focusing on work) are all seen by her as me “setting her up” for a divorce later and she often speculates that we should “just end it now”. I tell her that I’m sorry to hear that she feels that way and that I certainly don’t want to end things, that I love her, etc… but if that’s what she feels she needs to do then it’s her choice, etc… I try to do this as calmly as possible but I am terrified inside that all the things I’m doing to keep myself healthy are pushing her away further. It feels like such a catch 22.

To make things worse, our boys used to come crawl in bed with us fairly regularly in the middle of the night- more the 5 year old than the 7 but both on occasion. This has always been a good thing, but now that I’m in the office they come crawl in bed with me almost all the time and rarely do so with her. I’ve always had a great relationship with the boys but lately anytime they express a preference for me she starts lamenting that she’s not appreciated and that she might as well not be here, etc…  I’m certainly not going to stop being a good dad to my boys to accommodate her insecurities and I try to validate her feelings while pointing out that they do love her, etc… but again this feels like such a catch 22. I shouldn’t have to feel guilty that my kids love me!

Anyway, I’d appreciate any suggestions or advice about the above two challenges.

[pecia]

  I am sorry to hear you are having such a hard time. I don't know that I have any good advice, but I can certainly share what I have seen on my end. Similar situation. Infidelity. Essentially an in house separation. We have an 18 yr old son who is off at college. The more boundaries I have put in place and the more self-esteem I get - the more my husband acts out. I think it bothers him when I feel good because he still feels bad. He told me once that after we divorced, our son would hate him because I had become so close with him and his new fiancée. I honestly feel like he sees it as our kid can only love one of us. He has recently starting contacting our son more (which is good for my son) since he is very out of sight out of mind. It is hard. He is always threatening divorce. Now he is moving out on Sunday - so yes it ending is a very real possibility. Because we have been together so long, I really feel like he will recycle me (hopefully quickly). I love him very much and I want to stay with him. I want to be around for when he gets better. The tough part is that he has to want to first. He recognizes that he has BPD (although unofficially diagnosed) and he often says I try to blame all of our problems on the BPD. A lot of them are stemming from that. Either way - it is like a s**t sandwich most days. When it is good it is fab, when it is bad it makes you want to run away from home. I guess my point to all this rambling is that what you do will not change what she decides. So get healthy and enjoy your kids and your life. Maybe she will follow suit.  - pecia

[CS4Ever]

Thanks for the reply. I couldn’t agree more on the “they have to want it first” piece. What’s frustrating is that you know they will eventually but it feels odd to do this balancing act of not letting yourself be so close to them that their behavior hurts you too much but not getting so far away that you just throw in the towel. Save for a very few honest moments my wife won’t even admit she has a problem and while she has mentioned seeing a therapist herself a few times, there always seems to be some excuse not to. I have to admit to speculating how nice life would be without constantly having to walk on egg shells or otherwise worry about her irrational anger and irritation. She’s out of town this weekend and it’s just me and the boys. We went to red lobster for endless shrimp (the 7 year old calls them baby lobsters and just gobbles them up), rented a movie, made popcorn, and stayed up way too late. We’ll wake up tomorrow morning, make muffins watch cartoons and play with toys. We won’t have to worry about being too loud or not playing the right way or whether the muffins a cut down the center or across the top when we butter them- and it will be so nice!

I love my wife and probably always will, but sometimes it seems like life would be so much easier without all the drama. But that also means I have to give up the half or more of my time with the boys, my dreams of going old with the women I married, and then I’ll still have to deal with all the drama as a co-parent.

I know there are no easy answers, but I’d give a lot for a crystal ball to know where each of my less than good options takes me.

Perhaps the most frustrating thing is the fact that my wife still blames everything on me, and expects me to wait around while she “decides if she wants to work on our marriage”. It’s so tempting to stop being the reasonable, responsible, emotionally regulated one, tell her what I really think, and got get an apartment in the same school district. But I can’t do that because I have to  co-parent with her for the next decade. The apartment (without telling her what I really think) is seeming more and more tempting these days though.

[Jbt857]

It is the hardest part. I was a 'marry for life' kind, and did 9 years of it. No kids, thankfully.

I see all my exBPDh's reasons for how he is how he is, and it breaks my heart. It's so sad. But it takes 2 functioning adults who are willing to do what it takes to make it work.

If she isn't willing, you can't wait around forever in the hope she gets on the page.

I say get the apartment. It will either give her the impetus to do the work, or not. Either way, it gives you clarity, even if it means you face an uncomfortable truth. Your kids don't deserve to be stuck with 2 dysfunctional parents, if it is a situation that can be avoided.

[CS4Ever]

Totally agree on the 'marry for life' thing. It seems almost surreal that things might end. I really believe in the whole for better or worse thing and that you love the whole person, flaws and all. Which of course makes her efforts to paint me black seem like even more of a betrayal.

I have to say that my worse fear at this point is that she wont escalate the situation any further and that we'll continue in our current state of limbo for months on end. This is followed by the fear that she'll repair things just enough to stop the bleeding but wont otherwise get any help or address her underlying issues and we'll end up back in this same situation months or years from now.

It would almost be easier if she did hook up with this guy rather than just turning to him for emotional support, at least then we'd have a clean break and I'd know for sure that it was over.

But if she doesn't escalate things and if she doesn't get help I'm left trying to decide when/if I should walk away and I'll always wonder whether sticking with it for a bit longer would have made the difference.

[empathic]

This I can relate to. Me and my wife are currently in this "limbo" and it's hard to know where to go from there. We've also done the in-house separation with me in the spare room. At least with the situation as it was before there was a clear goal - stop responding to her emotional outbursts in the way I had in the past. Now I have detached, but I lack a plan on what I want to do next.

I also believed in marry for life, could never have imagined that I would end up in this situation. I thought that if you treat people decently and help people out you would get the same back. My wife has asked me if I'm waiting for her to initiate the divorce, and maybe I am in a way, because I'm not sure I could deal with being the bad guy in that scenario, telling it to friends and family. That said, it's also stressful knowing that she could tell me one day "I have found someone else" or something similar - which at this point is something I consider a real possibility.

[Jbt857]

About 5 years in to my relationship I caught my exBPDh cheating online.

At the time, he was able to persuade himself back into my life. It cost me a good job, because it involved a long commute and frequent travel abroad, and I didn't feel confident enough to do that any more - it knocked my self esteem rock bottom.

But he promised marriage counselling (driven by me) and we went - for 6 sessions, before he ended it. He went to his own therapy (driven by me), but didn't do the work and again, lasted only 6 sessions. That's when I discovered he was displaying BPD and NPD symptoms (he was never properly tested, but his T saw both and gave him worksheets).

None of it helped, because he was only doing it to placate me.

The limbo just slowly got worse. He was ok for a while, then it just started to deteriorate. Last year he absolutely ruined my 40th birthday last summer (deliberately). His destruction and bad behaviour increased again slowly until I had enough in February and finally called time.

You're probably in a similar place to where I was, waiting for the penny to drop and for them to see the gravity of the situation and actively pursue doing the work needed to fix your marriage.

Sadly, it never happened for me.

I had to end that limbo, because it was truly unbearable at the end. There wasn't quite one defining moment though. Just a catalogue of things and then one - which, compared to all the crap he threw at me over the years, was relatively trivial. But I guess at that time, my self preservation kicked in and I saw that I simply couldn't fix it on my own. I don't think with people with BPD you're going to get the clean break or defining moment a lot of the time.

It takes both of you to want to repair it, and to actively take steps to change your situation together.

Speaking from the other side, being alone does beat being stuck in that limbo, even if it is really bloody hard somedays.

[CS4Ever]

Well the limbo is officially over. The wife invited me to move out last night after a particularly nasty argument about me chaperoning a field trip for my kids of all things.

I'd asked her if he minded if I did so last week, not so much because I needed her permission but because i knew she would see it as a threat (me taking more interest in the kids either means that I'm competing with her or that I'm trying to improve my position for a divorce). She gave me a "do whatever you want to do" reply with the added comment that they probably didn't need anyone anymore.

They did need folks and I did sign up for it. But hadn't actually told her that yet (its not for few days yet). In all honesty I was procrastinating telling her as I knew it was a hot button issue. But I'm simply unwilling to defer time with my kids because she sees it as a threat. Anyway, she chose to see that as me hiding things and lying. Then proceeded to bring up pretty much every other example of me avoiding tough conversations in our 10 year marriage (I still do it occasionally, but for a while I was pretty bad about it). Apparently I cant be trusted, have no backbone, etc... .

She claims she doesn't want things to end but doesn't see how she can work on it. She also says its unfair that she wanted to work on it for '3 years' and I didn't but now I suddenly expect her to start working now that I've decided to change. Which honestly I think means she resents me for making some positive changes in myself which in turn makes it harder for her to paint me black. Either way, I spent a bit of time trying to use SET, but she immediately accused me of being patronizing. Then she started making claims about how I'd threatened to make a divorce difficult (I actually told her in a text that divorce was generally terrible for all involved and that we should avoid it if possible, she sees this as me threatening that I'm going to make things as difficult as possible- thankfully I saved the text but there is nothing I can do to convince her that I wasn't twirling my mustache and plotting to be as mean as possible) at which point I just gave up. Told her she should see a lawyer and suggested that we start the process of splitting our finances. She became pretty insulting at this point, which was followed by crying. But still no give around the whole its all my fault and it cant be fixed meme.

So I woke up this morning, made some changes to bank accounts (though I left he joint account alone), changed my direct deposit, and called a lawyer.

I'd say this is the worst day of my life, but I suspect that's still coming. What a mess.

[Jbt857]

Gosh, CS4, sorry to hear that.

Of course, even now it's probably still too soon to declare it as being absolutely over.

But you can choose what you want to do. Take positive steps towards completing the practicalities. Try and move quickly - being slow just drags it out as makes it worse for everyone.

And post here - lots!

Sending you hugs 

[CS4Ever]

Thanks. Really not sure what to do at this point. I keep wondering why I'm putting myself through this and whether I should just cut my losses and get out now.

Of course the problem is that I'll never really get away from her, since we have kids and at the end of the day, I still love her- flaws and all.

Not sure that's enough though. Which is the real tragedy of dealing with this illness.

[Jbt857]

It is tragic.

I went through that to-ing and fro-ing for years. We'd break up and make up all the time. I couldn't tell you how many times I sobbed my heart out thinking 'this is really it' this time. Then getting back into it. I'm equally to blame for that as him.

I ended it in the end. I was away at a conference and a friend was talking about her own relationship, and said "when you're done, you're done". It stuck in my head, going round and round.

I got home from a truly draining event to another of his dramas and that was it. I was done.

Not that I don't miss him, still love him, query if I did the right thing - I do. But something in me changed and I kept moving forward with the separation and divorce.

Maybe while you're still unsure you can build a contingency plan, and read here about strategies/what to expect etc, while you figure out how you feel. At least you'll be doing something proactive.

Only you'll know if its really it this time. But you have choices too, don't forget that.

[CS4Ever]

All good advice JBT. I'm wondering when the same bit will flip for me.

What's ironic is that each time I make a repair attempt of otherwise work myself up to try to save things she'll misrepresent something I said, level some odd criticism out of the blue, blame me for her unhappiness, blow up at some hidden landmine, and generally paint me black. When this happens I wonder why the heck I'm even bothering with all this drama? But then she'll make some statement about disappointing everyone, or being a waste of space, or otherwise let on how much she's hurting and I cant help but think this is the women I love and what can I do to help her.

What's telling is that I feel best when I'm concentrating on what my exit strategy would be and imagining life w/o all the drama.

[Jbt857]

He cheated online. It was my fault.

He smashed up our apartment. It was my fault and I was double painted black for calling the cops on him.

I asked him to leave, gave him 2 months living here, rent and bill free, to save up a deposit for a place of his own (6 months after giving him £5,000 to pay his debts and buy a van, and it's my fault he's homeless (he's actuallybstaying with friends, but the truth spoils his storyline).

He's with someone else, and it's my fault because I drove him to it.

And still, he somehow elicits that need in me to want to help him.

In the last month, he sold his wedding ring to pay for drink, drugs and partying with his new g/f. That's my fault too, even though he left 5 months ago. I forced him to that place.

I'll never win. You probably won't either.

[toomanytears]

Totally agree on the 'marry for life' thing. It seems almost surreal that things might end. I really believe in the whole for better or worse thing and that you love the whole person, flaws and all. Which of course makes her efforts to paint me black seem like even more of a betrayal.

I have to say that my worse fear at this point is that she wont escalate the situation any further and that we'll continue in our current state of limbo for months on end. This is followed by the fear that she'll repair things just enough to stop the bleeding but wont otherwise get any help or address her underlying issues and we'll end up back in this same situation months or years from now.

It would almost be easier if she did hook up with this guy rather than just turning to him for emotional support, at least then we'd have a clean break and I'd know for sure that it was over.

But if she doesn't escalate things and if she doesn't get help I'm left trying to decide when/if I should walk away and I'll always wonder whether sticking with it for a bit longer would have made the difference.

CS4Eve - you've struck a chord with me - thanks for your heartbreaking post. I absolutely understand what you're going through.

I'm also in this state of limbo. My BPDh has left the family home and is living in a bedsit. Hates it, resents it, says it's all my fault etc. I think we'll be in this unhappy situation for a while until he sees out the lease on the place he's rented. And I can't see him initiating a divorce... .

Meantime, I'm going to therapy, going out with friends, networking with colleagues. Doing all the things I never did while he was at home. It's helping me gain some self belief but I'm still hoping for reconciliation and idealizing our past relationship. I know I'd be better off without him in many many ways. But give up on our 31 year marriage? It just doesn't seem right and I can't accept it at the moment.

Focus on your love of your kids.  They really do need you.

[CS4Ever]

I hate to say this JBT, but your list of things he blamed your for made me feel a bit better about the stuff she blames me for... .   

Sounds like you did the right thing in terms of getting out and you are totally right on never winning. What's ironic, is that if a third party were to ask me I'd tell them that the game is just stacked against them and its silly to keep throwing good money after bad. But that advice is surprisingly hard to take when your own heart is involved.

Its funny you should mention the wedding ring. I've been wondering what I'll do with mine if things end. I cant bring myself to stop wearing it now, and I doubt i could get rid of it as there are some good memories attached to it, but it seems so silly to put it in a desk drawer to gather dust.

She on the other hand didn't wear hers all last week. A subtle message to me as she knows I notice those things. I didn't say a word though- think I'm beyond worrying about that now. What's really ironic is that she put it back on before visiting her mom. Guess it wouldn't fit with her whole I'm the one that's pushing her away meme to have her not wearing her ring.

[CS4Ever]

Sounds like you're doing the right things toomanytears. I was amazed as how out of touch with my friends, colleagues, and hobbies I'd gotten over the years. Its been a bit of an eye opener to realize how much I'd shut down and how withdrawn I'd become. That's actually been the one good thing about this whole situation, reconnecting with some long standing friends and colleagues. It feels like I'm waking up or coming out of hibernation or something.

Good point as well on the kids. She was gone for a weekend not too long ago and the boys and I had such a great time! Then she walked in the door and it was like clouds rolled in.  

As to the limbo thing, I'm less worried about that now. She seems to be growing more dissregulated by the day and has escalated the situation twice now. I'm going to make one or two more attempts to get her to take a step back and work on things, but I'm growing increasingly convinced that the only option is to see a mediator and start the process of formally separating.

I cant imagine what that must feel like after 31 years though. We're coming up on 10 and that's bad enough. Though I've been toying with the idea and/or hope that a few good years with someone who isn't dysfunctional is worth 10 years with someone who is. The point being that maybe its better to have fewer good years with a new person then many bad years with the old one. Something to think about.

[Jbt857]

CS4 - glad I made you feel better!   

Of course, if it were anyone else going through and tolerating what we did, we'd despair for them. But as you say, when it's your heart in play, it's not so easy to walk away.

For now, my wedding and engagement ring are tucked away out of sight. But when the time comes, I'm planning on getting them made into a necklace or something. I'm hoping when the emotion dissipates I can put those diamonds to good use!

I sense you still have some time in limbo ahead of you. It's not straightforward most times, but when you make your mind up of where your limit is, try and stick to it. And if not - things will resolve one way or another at some point - they always do.

[toomanytears]

For now, my wedding and engagement ring are tucked away out of sight. But when the time comes, I'm planning on getting them made into a necklace or something. I'm hoping when the emotion dissipates I can put those diamonds to good use!

This talk about wedding rings has set me thinking... .BPDh was very alert to me not wearing mine - even if I'd forgotten to put it back on for an innocent reason, he could get illogically jealous.

But he always refused to wear one himself. Interesting... .

[CS4Ever]

Never let good diamonds go to waste JBT... .

I gave my uBPDw a beautiful antique locket with a picture in it that had some sentimental value the day before I found out about the emotional affair... .doh!

The ring thing is interesting toomanyyears. I don't think I've ever taken mine off except when I was swimming or diving in 10 years. It actually feels odd when its not there at this point.

She took hers off each night and then often didn't put it on before work the next day. At the time I thought I was being too sensitive, but in retrospect perhaps I wasn't.

Like anything else, these things never happen in a vacuum. Forgetting to wear it now and again is one thing, consistently not wearing it in the context of a troubled relationship is another entirely.