Am I being re-engaged or is he communicating & being amicable?

[Birdandbison]

Well after we officially called it quits two weeks ago, he had said he wasn't in love with me anymore, though would always be there for our son & If I needed anything I could call him.  We have gone through a horrible few years together... he completely spiralled, could barely provide for our new little family (read previous posts) but now he is working & getting himself on track. Our conversation consisted of a lot of other minor details but I got closure (after 2 weeks of being ignored) we agreed we would speak when necessary about our child, updates photos etc.

I sent him an email a few days later saying that I was sorry things got so messy and as unfortunate as it was, things will get better in time. His response two days later was simply a link to a love song which was expressed "I'm not over this" kind of tune.

It made me cry... Jolted me a little but I know him so well as being very sensitive, emotional & used I always communicate with me through songs (when we were on a break)

Then I wake up yesterday morning to find three missed calls from the night before... .I mean, late at night. I wonder what would have surpassed had I not been sleeping & actually answered. I replied with a text & apologised for missing the calls & had asked if everything was ok & he just mentioned something completely irrelevant that wouldn't make for a valid reason for him to contact me not once but three times at night.

My responses were warm but short... He then proceeded to tell me he had organised a house for himself which I said I was happy for him... Then he asked me to pass on a little message to our son... (Baby is too young to understand but I guess he wants me to share things with him given we are on opposite sides of the country) I said I would pass it on... .Then he asks me to let our son know that he is working very hard (yet again our son is a baby) and then forwards me his pay slip & savings balance... .(First time I have ever seen him actually hold on to any amount of money) and I didn't see a need to respond, he then said he would send money next week for our son & I thanked him for communicating that with me & I said I was happy for him & he seemed to be in a good place... .He then said kind of but not really because he's had to go through a lot of sacrifice and hard work to finally afford his own place (living out of boss's garage for a month) and I simply said that sometimes it takes a rough run but you get there and things are looking up for him & that was great.

Now am I being re engaged? It's inevitable that we will see each other as he will be paying for our travel costs so he can see our son. What happens when i get there, sleep there, spend time together with our son. Does he think in his mind that now he is beginning to get himself on track that we will give it another shot? I know men are validated through their work & ability to provide so I know he has not been able to do that for a very long time... .Now he is and that's wonderful & he probably feels like he can finally be that father/partner he couldn't be before (plagued with trouble and drama, lack of work etc)

How will things go given I have to travel with our son interstate where our accommodation will be his home? Is that a door to re-engagement/ recycling.

Once the drama settles, you think oohhh we can try this again, I've got my priorities sorted etc etc. I know nobody on here is a psychic... But what is happening here? And what does the future seem to look like? Help. I'm confused... .I always knew we would have to spend days together on end when visiting... .But given what I've stated... I'm a little concerned he may turn his charm on, I'll melt & boom.

Thank you for your time

[fiddlestix]

Bird, I would be very, very cautious.  Do not get your hopes up.  My diagnosed BPD ex wife threw me overboard and re-engaged me many times over 25 years.  Even now, after she recently recycled me and caste me on the dung heap, she texts me about various things.  Often, the texts seem to pick up as if nothing weird is going on.  She peppers her texts with emoticons and humor, AS IF WE ARE BUDDIES despite her crucifying my heart countless times; despite the fact she is now shacking up with a man 14 years younger than her!  We are in the midst of divorce proceedings (in which she often backs out of meeting with the mediator) and I think now the reality of it is hitting home.  She has texted me a couple times a week lately to see if I am still there. She may just be texting to see if I will still respond.  We do need to have some communication as we share a 13 year old girl.  But some of my ex's texts have a provocative tone.  Just odd. 

Bird, I feel your ex is testing you.  Now that he is alone (he may have a lover, BPD folks hate being alone as they feed on the ego boosts of a new lover) he tests you by sending texts that really don't need to be sent.  Give a message to an infant?  Really?  I bet he wants the comfort of knowing that you are still an option for him.  That is my educated guess, as a man who spent 25 plus years with a very disordered woman.  The trick in your communication is being civil without giving him power or a sense that he can still control you (which BPD folks crave). 

[Birdandbison]

Bird, I would be very, very cautious.  Do not get your hopes up.  My diagnosed BPD ex wife threw me overboard and re-engaged me many times over 25 years.  Even now, after she recently recycled me and caste me on the dung heap, she texts me about various things.  Often, the texts seem to pick up as if nothing weird is going on.  She peppers her texts with emoticons and humor, AS IF WE ARE BUDDIES despite her crucifying my heart countless times; despite the fact she is now shacking up with a man 14 years younger than her!  We are in the midst of divorce proceedings (in which she often backs out of meeting with the mediator) and I think now the reality of it is hitting home.  She has texted me a couple times a week lately to see if I am still there. She may just be texting to see if I will still respond.  We do need to have some communication as we share a 13 year old girl.  But some of my ex's texts have a provocative tone.  Just odd. 

Bird, I feel your ex is testing you.  Now that he is alone (he may have a lover, BPD folks hate being alone as they feed on the ego boosts of a new lover) he tests you by sending texts that really don't need to be sent.  Give a message to an infant?  Really?  I bet he wants the comfort of knowing that you are still an option for him.  That is my educated guess, as a man who spent 25 plus years with a very disordered woman.  The trick in your communication is being civil without giving him power or a sense that he can still control you (which BPD folks crave). 

Thank you for sharing your story fiddlestix. I can't imagine the future being any easier than the past. I know how he works, I have a feeling he may have fear that I have completely switched off from him, which to an extent I have. It's been the hardest thing especially with a child & I know although its over its far from over. I'm not sure whether he has somebody knew... Given he cheated on me and always needs to feel wanted he probably does... That doesn't bother me as much as before I got onto this forum. I don't know how the future will pan out & yes the communicating & passing on messages to our baby is bizarre. I'm proud of myself for keeping myself together, rather than initiating further conversation. I'm happy where he's at, as long as he can be a good father where he can, great. If he is seeing someone, not sure how well that'll go down for her when we start flying over for visits.

I'm aware of what could possibly happen regarding him testing me so I have to be very wise with my words BUT I figured this response came about after he realised I shut the book on us when I said time will heal our wounds... That probably shocked him a little. Maybe he just wanted to simply communicate and tell me he is doing well.

I'm sorry for what you've had to endure for the last 25 years. You've been dealing with this since I was born... How crazy is that?

Fiddlestix if you knew then what you know now, what would you do for your life? Have you met anybody post break up?

[fiddlestix]

Bird, now I feel OLD! LOL I am a very fit 47 LOL!  Anyway... .I only learned of BPD in the last year or so from my therapist, and I have read a lot since.  Several years ago my wife was diagnosed bipolar (as well as various addictions etc).  She admitted to me this summer that she is also borderline.  And she fits the diagnostic to a T.  Looking back over the years her behaviors, childhood traumas, and general profile are eerily similar to countless others on this site.  She is even a therapist herself and knows all the lingo and consequences, but still engages in reckless behavior (irony is not always funny).  I now see who she is and how she is wired.  But I am having a hard time disconnecting from her.  I still crave her attention (I still find her so damned sexy), but I know it will only lead to more misery.

I have met a wonderful, healthy, kind, honest woman.  We are dear friends and talk every day.  We were briefly intimate last winter.  But I pulled back a bit because I have not flushed the feelings, nor the toxins, of a long relationship from my system.  Before I get involved in a heavy romance I want to feel better first.  In that way I will not use this wonderful woman to make me feel better.  Are you involved in new love, Bird?

Fiddlestix

[Birdandbison]

Wow! Took 25 years for an answer hey?

I think my former partner is also bipolar... And only since I left him the last time I've been educating myself. Wish I knew more back then... Could and tried a couple things but its pointless really isn't it?

I completely understand regarding wanting their attention. And I too am insanely attracted to my ex... .Though dont know how good he would look after being borderline homeless for a month... .But still... When were together, it's intense so I can only imagine what will happen when we see each other again, hope I'm strong enough, maybe he will be too!

And you are not old! has your life with your ex been somewhat joyful? Is it disconnecting from the good times, or the person themselves? That's where I'm struggling... I miss my best friend, my companion, the first person I ever felt truly free to let go... The same person who made me feel trapped, emotionally & physically... And I could go on but we all know how it goes.

So wonderful you have met somebody and are taking it slowly. I have not met anybody... People turn away when I say I'm a single mum... upset me that he has that freedom... I'm a little restricted... But I have our son at least. I can't wait to meet somebody to know what it's like To be treated with respect and love all the time & be completely unconditional. But I'm afraid for as long as my ex lingers, I'll never fully move on. A part of me belongs to him, a part of me loves him and the other part is already out the door & There's no mending or reversing the damage... Even if time apart makes things "feel better"

So happy for you that you have a rainbow after the rain. I hope you can immerse yourself in happiness once the storm clears.

I hope I can be strong enough to endure whatever comes in the future

[goldylamont]

Birdandbison, I think the greatest revelation about my uBPDxgf was that she was only capable of caring for herself. so, yes, sometimes this meant pulling me close and sharing herself with me--but only because it was what she wanted in that moment. at a whim, when she wanted something else, you get thrown to the curb, and if you resist then you are abused because of it.

i think it's important to look at all communications from the perspective of what will give this person more comfort and power in the moment. from that perspective this is the meaning i feel behind what your ex is saying to you:

I sent him an email a few days later saying that I was sorry things got so messy and as unfortunate as it was, things will get better in time. His response two days later was simply a link to a love song which was expressed "I'm not over this" kind of tune.

It made me cry... Jolted me a little

it was meant to make you cry. and to pull you back in. from your description, he said two completely opposite things--first that he doesn't love you any more. then later he sends you a song, saying that he's still in love with you. i feel when a pwBPD feels powerful over you, their love stops, they are more interested in other people, could care less about you. when they feel weak, they want your comfort, and all the sudden the "love" from them starts to flow again. the problem is, once you reciprocate this "love" back to him, he'll soak up this good energy, feel more power, then cease to love you (boredom? engulfment? shame? who knows?).

Then I wake up yesterday morning to find three missed calls from the night before... .I mean, late at night. I wonder what would have surpassed had I not been sleeping & actually answered. I replied with a text & apologised for missing the calls & had asked if everything was ok & he just mentioned something completely irrelevant that wouldn't make for a valid reason for him to contact me not once but three times at night.

he was checking to see if you had replaced him with another man yet. by apologizing to him you confirmed that you were alone, so now you've given him this power back and he is free to do as he pleases since he doesn't have to worry about losing you as much. i wouldn't be so open to him or apologize for not answering to his beck and call. he spoke about something irrelevant as a scapegoat from telling you the truth about why he contacted you (during a time when you could be with someone else, b/c this would be the time of night where he would be with someone else so there's some projection on his part happening here).

Then he asked me to pass on a little message to our son... (Baby is too young to understand but I guess he wants me to share things with him given we are on opposite sides of the country) I said I would pass it on... .Then he asks me to let our son know that he is working very hard (yet again our son is a baby) and then forwards me his pay slip & savings balance... .(First time I have ever seen him actually hold on to any amount of money) and I didn't see a need to respond, he then said he would send money next week for our son & I thanked him for communicating that with me & I said I was happy for him & he seemed to be in a good place... .He then said kind of but not really because he's had to go through a lot of sacrifice and hard work to finally afford his own place (living out of boss's garage for a month) and I simply said that sometimes it takes a rough run but you get there and things are looking up for him & that was great.

this doesn't seem to be about your son at all. seems more like he was using your son as a way to get sympathy from you about how hard a time he's having. and he wanted to let you know that now he's making some money as this sounds like it was a known issue between you two. not that he doesn't genuinely want to send you money--my ex owed me money and i genuinely feel like she wanted to pay it back. little by little she would give some here and there and it was appreciated. however in the end i never accepted all of it back as in my case i felt there would be less damage done to my psyche by not communicating at all than if i let her use a few hundred dollars as her excuse to needle herself back into my life (her ultimate motive). in your case it's different, you share a child, so i would assume this communication is inevitable. however i think his messages to his son weren't, they were messages to you to evoke sympathy.

Now am I being re engaged?... .

Does he think in his mind that now he is beginning to get himself on track that we will give it another shot?

Once the drama settles, you think oohhh we can try this again, I've got my priorities sorted etc etc. I know nobody on here is a psychic... But what is happening here? And what does the future seem to look like? Help. I'm confused... .I always knew we would have to spend days together on end when visiting... .But given what I've stated... I'm a little concerned he may turn his charm on, I'll melt & boom.

surely i think you are being re-engaged. however if he has BPD his intentions could turn on a dime. i would need to defer to others at some point since i don't share a child with my ex; and i value the strength and wisdom you must have to guide you through these hard decisions. it sounds like you are still susceptible to his charms, and this is normal and good to know about yourself. i do feel though that going back to him in any form of recycle will bring upon more pain and anguish for you. i haven't read a story yet from others (and my experience has been the same) where a recycle was an improvement over the previous relationship. most likely it would be worse.

my heart goes out to you. stay strong Birdandbison!   

[Birdandbison]

I'm speechless goldylamont, you've given me such an extensive insight as to what could be going on, I appreciate it greatly. I'm aware only time will tell how this goes but I am already aware of his patterns, like you mentioned in regards to that particular moment. And for a fact I know once he realises I'm detaching, I think he panics a little but then the power thing comes into play & he knows exactly what to do... .That's where I don't and then I get pulled in. He could possibly be sharing his life already with somebody else and that's fine... But there's nothing worse than that feeling of realisation... What you had, what you are doing & the fact that you could have all of that PLUS your family but prior actions have lead you to none of that, I know that is happening to him, just a little too late to try and patch things up (which is what I'm sensing from sharing his financial situation with me etc) also the need to prove himself to me, but may as well be what you said. The more days go on that we don't speak I feel strong but everyday I wake up thinking what will come out of today... Or to my suprise at night? I wish I could detach forever and ever... But when you share a child, i have no right to shut off completely.

[fiddlestix]

Goldy, you really nailed it.  We "nons" must remember that almost everything the pwBPD does is to soothe him/herself.  They have moments of clarity and remorse, but those moments are fleeting.  My ex usually had an inner storm brewing/raging and she sought to soothe at all times in many ways: endless computer games, eating, smoking, drinking, marijuana, some illegal pharmies, internet chatting/flirting, sex-hook-up websites, "secret" sex with other men, amusement park rides, shoplifting, stealing things from her work... .all textbook BPD crap.  She lives for the chase, the hunt, the win, the payoff, the rush... . 

While I am trying to heal in the right ways from this train wreck 25 year marriage (therapy, this forum, friends, prayer, music, reading, exercise, al-anon, abstinence from sex), she has "moved on."  Her latest is a man 14 years younger than her.  She lives with him after only a few weeks of "dating."  She met him in the midst of an attempted recycle of me a few months ago.  I am amazed at how fast she can get over me and replace me!  That is what hurts so unbearably bad !   I really am a flawed, but good man: gentle, forgiving, generous, kind, honest, faithful... .I am a Methodist minister for God's sake! (not the close-minded, Bible Thumping type). Perhaps I was "too nice." 

And I am in pretty good shape too; all my parts are in excellent working order .  How could she just discard me so easily?  My therapist said that she is perhaps repelled by me because she can't be like me.  She feels more "at home" with people of her ilk: druggies, boozers... .In fact, her last boyfriend (whom she moved in with when she left me over a year ago) was an ex-con drug dealer who went to jail for abusing her. But she stills sends me texts that have a strange tone... .like she's fishing.  Maybe she is trying to soothe herself by keeping me on a leash. 

Or... .

... .maybe her texts to me are just meant for communication.  Maybe she is just being amicable.  Maybe with her new man she has healed and is ready to be a faithful partner with him.  Maybe he is a "real man" and will set firmer boundaries than I did.  When I asked for the divorce a few months ago she agreed (yet, she has blown off every appointment with the mediator) and said she still wanted to be friends.  Maybe she is just being friendly and mature and I am being a big baby for not answering her texts. I refuse to answer unless it is urgent. Today I am depressed, lonely and confused.  I wish I could stop trying to read her mind... .  Sorry to whine everyone, but I am really down today... .probably because she took our daughter out last night and she brought her new "boy toy" along.  I need some hope that my life will get better. 

Fiddlestix

[wrigley52]

It must be that kind of day! I too am feeling down. My ex fiancé left me for someone he took to a prom back in 1980, reconnected on FB like he did with me. I paid for him to move back home from Houston and we were together 4 years. He lost his job and I took care of him for 15 mo only to find out that he was cheating with this women. I found a extra cell phone and kicked him out. I also found out he lied to me the entire relationship. He has not contacted me since he moved out and I cant lie even tho he is awful I still miss him. We knew each other from high school too.I feel like an idiot. I confronted them a couple times and told the women everything about him but she didn't believe me... .2 weeks ago she text me to see if he I have talked to him recently I hadn't but find it interesting that she might not be trusting him now. Her problem not mine... .so hang in there it will get better. God closes a door and another one opens or so they keep telling me... .

Wrigley!

[fiddlestix]

Wrigley, thanks for the pep talk. Some days I feel like I am over the hump and healing.  Then a day comes in which I feel just awful.  I obsess about her, what she is doing, if she is screwing her new guy, if she ever thinks about me at all... .  i was a year out, mostly no contact. I was doing pretty darn well.  Then, a few months ago she approached me and wanted to try again.  She was sweet, flirtatious, repentant... .  I took the bait... .only to be thrown aside for a much younger dude.  I am struggling to regain the healing I achieved in that year. 

She is still being weird.  She just got fired from another job.  Then, yesterday, she texted me and asked if our divorce mediator "dropped the ball."  I have chosen to meet with the mediator separately to maintain no contact.  So I contact the mediator who informs me that my wife has backed out of every scheduled meeting.  What the heck?  And the mediator has dropped the ball?  Why text me with such a matter?  The woman is driving me crazy!  Every text I get keeps me wondering: genuine communication or re-engagement?  I understand the fundamentals of BPD, but today I am in the FOG.

Fiddlestix

[Birdandbison]

Agreed it must be one of those days, not feeling so good myself either. If I could go NC I think the most part of me would be healed... .Given I don't have that choice it gets me down everytime we need to communicate.

Fiddlestix, she would NOT be magically healed, & there's beautiful people like yourself that suffer at the hands of others, luck of the draw. I can give advice but I can't take my own so just know that somewhere else in the world, there are so many others going through exactly what you are & it's so unnerving regarding the divorce I can imagine. I don't think it was meant to be easy, but I would like to know WHY these people enter our lives... .And turn them completely upside down. Maybe we've allowed it... .Maybe they are drawn to us. Deep down inside them I can imagine it only hurts, probably hurts more than we hurt. I also believe its not any easier for them, they just have multiple distractions... .If only it was that easy for us. And it sounds like your ex wife is afraid of actually taking that next step which is finalising divorce. That means, OVER for good. You're gone... .I don't think they want you/us completely gone. I realised that when I finally ended it, lowered my contact & content of it, that's a shock to their system. But I feel in control for the first time in a long time. I think we are a safety net for them. Have faith in yourself that you are a wonderful person, with strength and courage to persevere. This time of my life has really got a right grip... But I can let go. And most minutes of the day & night are hard. And I'm not emotionally or mentally strong YET, by the time this is over where I'm completely detached, my skin will be thicker & my life enriched. But why? I wish I knew.

You are not to blame fiddlestix l, nor are you wrigley. Luck of the draw is all. Now it's onto the next one to endure tenfold what we have endured. Because they won't get better by someones magic touch, a look in their eye, or words of love and comfort. This behaviour is ingrained. If medicine barely helps, human contact definitely will not.

[eeyore]

Birdandbison, I think the greatest revelation about my uBPDxgf was that she was only capable of caring for herself. so, yes, sometimes this meant pulling me close and sharing herself with me--but only because it was what she wanted in that moment. at a whim, when she wanted something else, you get thrown to the curb, and if you resist then you are abused because of it.


i think it's important to look at all communications from the perspective of what will give this person more comfort and power in the moment. from that perspective this is the meaning i feel behind what your ex is saying to you:

I sent him an email a few days later saying that I was sorry things got so messy and as unfortunate as it was, things will get better in time. His response two days later was simply a link to a love song which was expressed "I'm not over this" kind of tune.

It made me cry... Jolted me a little

it was meant to make you cry. and to pull you back in. from your description, he said two completely opposite things--first that he doesn't love you any more. then later he sends you a song, saying that he's still in love with you. i feel when a pwBPD feels powerful over you, their love stops, they are more interested in other people, could care less about you. when they feel weak, they want your comfort, and all the sudden the "love" from them starts to flow again. the problem is, once you reciprocate this "love" back to him, he'll soak up this good energy, feel more power, then cease to love you (boredom? engulfment? shame? who knows?).

Your assessment is how I feel.  Oddly I question my feelings.  I wonder how a person could be this manipulative?  There has to be something that has caused it.  Then I feel sorry for the person who has treated me in a manner I find so confusing.  It makes me feel totally off balance.  As I've pulled away the manipulation and the game playing feels heightened.  Him telling me that I've overlooked the good and only concentrated on the bad.  How if I would only let "it" (deal breaker) go everything would be fine.  I feel like I'm sitting on a pendulum just dangling when I have to hear this.  But in the last 6 weeks I've been resolute about my needs.  I've been bullied and talked to in efforts to get me to "straighten up" my thinking.  I've found a place of strength that says I can't be bullied.  I don't know where it came from but it did.  Just that feeling of I've had enough and my heart and my body just aren't capable to take any more.  I will certainly cherish the good stuff.  But the extreme goods aren't worth the pendulum swinging the other direction.

Thank you.  Your post helped me feel better.  Anger is how I left, now the sadness and tears are starting.  I hope to get to acceptance and detachment quickly.  

[goldylamont]

lately, when I feel bad i try to do something called tonglen. in summary it is breathing in the pain i am feeling and also recognizing that millions of other people feel exactly the same way. and then breathing out happiness and compassion in return. in this way we acknowledge and get to know our sadness, it's context within ourselves and the greater world, and began to convert it for everyone. below is an excerpt from a book that taught me about tonglen. so, i will do this now for myself and everyone else on this board and in the world who feels like us.

Tonglen reverses the usual logic of avoiding suffering and seeking pleasure. In the process, we become liberated from very ancient patterns of selfishness. We begin to feel love for both ourselves and others; we begin to take care of ourselves and others. Tonglen awakens our compassion and introduces us to a far bigger view of reality.

... .

We begin the practice by taking on the suffering of a person whom we know to be hurting and wish to help. For instance, if we know of a child who is being hurt, we breathe in with the wish to take away all of that child’s pain and fear. Then, as we breathe out, we send happiness, joy, or whatever would relieve the child. This is the core of the practice: breathing in others’ pain so they can be well and have more space to relax and open—breathing out, sending them relaxation or whatever we feel would bring them relief and happiness.

Often, however, we can’t do this practice because we come face to face with our own fear, our own resistance or anger, or whatever our personal pain happens to be just then.

At that point we can change the focus and begin to do tonglen for what we are feeling and for millions of other people just like us who at that very moment are feeling exactly the same stuckness and misery. Maybe we are able to name our pain. We recognize it clearly as terror or revulsion or anger or wanting to get revenge. So we breathe in for all the people who are caught with that same emotion, and we send out relief or whatever opens up the space for ourselves and all those countless others. Maybe we can’t name what we’re feeling. But we can feel it—a tightness in the stomach, a heavy darkness, or whatever. We simply contact what we are feeling and breathe in, take it in, for all of us—and send out relief to all of us.

... .

Rather than beating ourselves up, we can use our personal stuckness as a stepping stone to understanding what people are up against all over the world. Breathe in for all of us and breathe out for all of us. Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings. When you do tonglen on the spot, simply breathe in and breathe out, taking in pain and sending out spaciousness and relief.

Chodron, Pema (2010-09-14). When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice for Difficult Times (Shambhala Classics) (p. 94). Shambhala. Kindle Edition.

hope this helps! it will help me :-)