When can threats be used to address custody?

[thinkingthinking]

Divorce has been finalized not for about a month, but my exBPDh will not stop sending ridiculous emails, texts, messages.  I have tried to send information about what kids have going on, and only get back long rants about how I didn't try hard enough, only cared about the kids, etc.  There is no communication about the kids, because he can not stop talking about my failures in the marriage.

He is not working, not taking his medicine, not seeing his therapist. I think he is basically sitting around obsessing over how he thinks I've wronged him.  I've asked that he not call me at work unless it is an emergency.  Today he called my office, called my cell, and paged me.  When I texted back asking if it was an emergency, he responded: "If that's the only time u will take my calls then u r going to get a taste of your own medicine soon."  I can't help but feel threatened by the things he says and does!

I definitely am glad that I went through with the divorce, but this just makes me wonder if I should have been more aggressive with custody restrictions, and if I can go back now to correct.   

[Matt]

What are the custody arrangements now?

How old are the kids, and how are they doing?

[thinkingthinking]

Oldest two are 18 and 22, and they rarely spend time with dBPDh. I used to encourage them to contact him, but it just gets too stressful for them so I decided to stop. He tells them too many of his problem which just makes them pull away. Youngest is 12, and she is the one dealing with it the most. He is supposed to spend 3 hours with her twice a week and then every other weekend,  but I would guess he takes her about half that's amount of time. No reliability. If he's having a bad day he just doesn't come get her.   She is doing okay, and I think on some level has come to expect that unpredictability from him. But she still gauges his mood, "how he's doing", etc.  I just don't like having a 12 yo taking that on and she is the one that can't walk away.

[momtara]

My hubby is acting the same way, but in cycles.  He gets into situations in which he won't stop texting during work.  The cops said to send him a text or email saying the texts are unwelcome.   I also have sent several emails and texts outlining WHAT is appropriate during work:  Urgent matters about the kids that need to be dealt with in a matter of minutes.  I gave a few examples.  I am afraid he could turn it around and not text me when something important happens when he has the kids, but I stressed that these restrictions applied AT WORK.

Why do you want to alter custody due to this - because he's erratic?  You coudl put something about communication, and other stuff, in the final divorce decree.

[Matt]

Seems like there are kind of three paths to consider... .

One is legal - file a motion with the court to suspend or reduce his contact with the kids until he has had a psych eval and has shown he is OK and following the recommended treatment path.  The difficult part may be showing evidence that there is a problem;  the court will not want to act without evidence.  Some of his "rants" may help show that he is not OK - depends how extreme they are.

A second option is to reduce and manage your communication with him - do not respond to any communication except written or e-mail, and then only very briefly about the kids.  Let him know that if there are further inappropriate communications you will get a restraining order.  I would suggest you do this no matter what else you do.  Get his craziness out of your own life while you work on making things better for the kids.

A third path is to help the kids cope - gain strength.  A counselor for them may be the best way - someone who is experienced at helping kids deal with a parent who has such problems.  It will be a marathon, not a sprint - a long-term relationship between each kid and the counselor.

If by your question, you mean that you might make threats to him, think in terms of "boundaries" not threats - say what you will do and then do it.  "If you send me any more e-mails that are not related to practical stuff about the kids - any more rants or anything about our past relationship - I will show them to my lawyer and ask him to get a restraining order."  "If you do X, I will do Y."  You have to follow through - no threats, just a statement of what you will do, and then do it.  "If you call me at work again, and it's not an emergency related to the kids, I will get a restraining order preventing you from doing that anymore, and then you can be charged with a crime if you violate that."  "If you make any threats against me or the kids, I will report that to the police and let the chips fall where they may."

Consider also just hanging up any time the conversation goes outside practical, urgent stuff related to the kids.  I had to do that with my ex - she will call with something reasonable but then go into accusations and complaints.  I only had to hang up a few times for her to get the message - I never said "If you do X I will do Y.", I just did it - consistently - and now she knows that I will only talk with her about the kids - everything by e-mail unless it's urgent.  It works!

[momtara]

Yes, you can file a harassment report with police or get a restraining order too - but you'd just want to consider trying to get him to stop first.  Matt's ideas are good.

[thinkingthinking]

I feel like I've tried a lot of these things, but agree that it would be difficult to get the court to act without a lot of proof.  I tried to avoid addressing his illness during divorce proceedings mostly as I was trying to be "kind".  But I think that I imagined he would move on after the divorce without this continued crazy.  Wishful thinking 

The boundaries regarding work have been set repeatedly, and I have ended many conversations that veered into the blame-game. Trying to stick to e-mail for info sharing regarding our daughter, but the responses I receive are long rants that have nothing to do with her.

My intent wasn't to threaten him, but to see if I should use some text of HIS threats in legal proceedings, or figure out if I need some kind of proof to get a restraining order.  Last night, I finally forwarded his 2-day e-mail and text rant on to my lawyer and just asked if there was anything that he could suggest.  My concern regarding time spent with our daughter is really just that I know how unstable he is, and do not want her having to weather that on her own. 

I understand what your are saying about a long-term relationship with a counselor for my kids.  One way or another they are going to have to deal with his behavior for the rest of their lives. 

Thanks for your support!   

[livednlearned]

I kept all of N/BPDx's emails and put them in a binder.

I created sections for:

*rage/abuse/name-calling/threats

*stonewalling decision-making process or interference

*lies/ contradictions

Then I filed my emails into those sections, as well as other sections I had to have for my deposition (S12's therapy, medical, educational stuff.)

The rage and abuse emails were helpful when we did a deposition. My L asked N/BPDx if he was angry at me. N/BPDx said no, not like he used to be. Then L brought out 5 emails written within the past 6 months that were extremely angry and threatening.

When N/BPDx had his psychotic episode last year, I thought he was going to kill himself and S12. His messages said things like, You will never see S12 again. Why would you do this to your own child? You'll live with the pain of this for the rest of your life. I'm coming after you.

The police said none of those were technically considered threats. If he said "I'm coming after you with a shoe" then it would be a threat. In my state, it's actually not illegal to hit someone with your hand. But if you do it with a shoe, then it's a violent act.

Also, I tallied up the emails and messages. N/BPDx sent more than 10,000 emails in one year. During his psychotic break, he sent over 100+ messages (voicemail, text, IM, emails) in a 12 hour period.

Tally it up for the court so they understand the volume you're dealing with. And tally up the number of times you have told him to stop.

[momtara]

My husband does similar things.  I am so intimidated by them, it's almost like we're still married. 

[catnap]

Last night, I finally forwarded his 2-day e-mail and text rant on to my lawyer and just asked if there was anything that he could suggest.  My concern regarding time spent with our daughter is really just that I know how unstable he is, and do not want her having to weather that on her own. 

Great idea.  Perhaps supervised visitation will be one of the remedies as well as Our Family Wizard (OFW) for communication.   

Matt

One is legal - file a motion with the court to suspend or reduce his contact with the kids until he has had a psych eval and has shown he is OK and following the recommended treatment path.  The difficult part may be showing evidence that there is a problem;  the court will not want to act without evidence.  Some of his "rants" may help show that he is not OK - depends how extreme they are.

Son's (he was awarded sole custody) exgf had threatened on several occasions to "take the child where he could never find her".  The court gave her supervised visitation privileges only after she completed parenting classes, a hair follicle drug test, and out-patient drug treatment.

[Free One]

If by your question, you mean that you might make threats to him, think in terms of "boundaries" not threats - say what you will do and then do it.  "If you send me any more e-mails that are not related to practical stuff about the kids - any more rants or anything about our past relationship - I will show them to my lawyer and ask him to get a restraining order."  "If you do X, I will do Y."  You have to follow through - no threats, just a statement of what you will do, and then do it.  "If you call me at work again, and it's not an emergency related to the kids, I will get a restraining order preventing you from doing that anymore, and then you can be charged with a crime if you violate that."  "If you make any threats against me or the kids, I will report that to the police and let the chips fall where they may."

I have had decent results by addressing harassment issues this way (always be email). There is usually an extinction burst (which I ignore) then the behavior stops.