8 months after 4 year off/on ...still can't get my mind of her

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi all,

I haven't needed to use the boards for a while but I guess I'm still detaching from the wounds of the relationship I was in with my exwBPD. She was a severe alcoholic, in recovery over the last year of our rs.

I have dated and slept with a few women, but I guess it just made me miss my ex w/ BPD even more.

I have been in therapy once or twice a week since the breakup. I had some sort of a mental breakdown during the breakup... .she relapsed at my house and talked about her dad molesting her sister... .and maybe her, I don't know.

I went NC with her after she moved out... .in May, i reached out to her and apologized for my side of things... .we saw eachother, and all of this love and anxiety and "co-dependent" type of feelings came up. She was... .pretty cold with me, but told me she missed our friendship and I think she wanted to sleep with me.

After seeing her, I freaked out a bit and sent her text messages telling her to go in to long term therapy and get away from her AA group (which I feel was full of people w/ personality disorders... .that could maybe relate to her, but not provide the type of support and treatment she needs to recover from BPD). I really acted silly and paranoid... .and insulted a lot of the people around her.

Now that some time has passed since then... .i wanted to talk to her again... .but she has blocked me on FB and email. We  kind of switched back and forth between blocking before... .but now I feel I'm perma-blocked... .

I'm having a really tough time moving on from this relationship. I feel like she is confused as to who I am and who I was in her life and what we had together... .like she has some sort of emotional amensia.

I think it was good for both of us to have NC... .and I commend her on carrying it out. But I miss her. Despite her BPD and the misery it brought in to my life, I really miss her companionship and personality. She treated me very poorly, but now I realize it was out of ignorance and brain chemistry... .not bad intentions. I guess that doesn't make it any better, but I felt so comfortable with her in a lot of ways... .

I really have no meaningful relationships in my life, save for a few friends that are extremely busy. I work very hard on my startup company... .and i have a poor work/social balance.

The women I have met were pretty mentally unstable. One was surely ASPd, and the other had mild asperger's... .

They actually made my ex w BPD look like the most empathetic person in the world, HA!

I feel a lot healthier these days... .but in no shape to find a relationship with someone new. I have been focusing on myself and I am getting bored and miss the meaning that I derive from being in a close relationship. As I am older (30)... .it feels like women are getting bitter, and social scene is starting to get a little creepier "singles parties... .etc... .etc." I'm not in too idle chatter... .I miss that connection i felt with my ex.

Online dating is tough... .as any decent looking girl in this area is going to get hit up by 50 guys a day, and I'm not much in to competing for a woman's attention with all the other schlubs. It's humiliating. Supposedly we are an equal-gender society... .well the dating sites don't reflect that.

I used to make female friends very easily in school and stuff, but I'm such an intellectual and this is such a "watered-down/ superficial" area... .that I am having trouble making new friends or finding women to date. Especially because I am bootstrapping a company and don't have much spending money. I'm really sad these days... .and think about my ex wBPD a lot. It was a huge distraction and replaced a lot of other friendships that have now disintegrated... .

She was so bubbly, fun, and sweet... .(come to think of it, like a child). Regular career women seem over-polished, calculated, and bitter for the most part... .She had the right blend of down-to earthedness, and femininity... .I know I'm generalizing... .but I live in an area where conformity is a way of life.

I really miss my ex wBPD. I felt so good with her and my soul just aches for her... .it really makes me question whether or not this was an addictive relationship or whether I love her in a more profound way.

Not sure if I have the choice at this point, but I am sure I can get ahold of her if I send from a different email address. Unless of course I am painted black forever... .which would truly be sad, because I was very loving and supportive for the most part... .unless I was reacting to one of her terrible cycles that would leave me feeling shell-shocked, insulted, bewildered, hurt, fooled, abused... .etc.

I really am having a tough time letting go, and I even sent her an email today to see if my email was still blocked... .and it was. I don't think she wants any contact with me... .and from a rational perspective... .I should really be the one who blocked her and erased her from my life.

ME = BS/BA from top 50 school, started own business, made a good living, pretty sober and healthy, narcissistic parents w/ NO CONTACT. Very giving in relationships.

HER = Dropped out of community college, severe alcoholism, BPD w/ N traits, may have been molested by father, can't hold down job etc. Taker in relationships.

She told me we don't belong together... .and that she has no feelings for me, and that I'm a pompous ass who is judgemental and blah blah. (of course weeks before i was the love of her life, I supported her through her father's death) I just got tired of her outrageous mood swings and confusion about her feelings around me... .however, now that she is completely out of my life... .I just miss her and the comfort that I felt when things were good.

I'm having a hard time imagining loving someone else, or accepting the love from someone else. I feel like we belong together... .even though on paper it makes no sense... .as in, she seems like a real "loser". But I just care about her so much and miss having her in my life... .it really sucks and I just could use some support from anybody who understands.

What am I supposed to do about these loving feelings I have for her... .no matter how much i try and hold a grudge and let her go, I just can't do it. I seriously feel like I crossed some line and delved in to a level of selfless love that most people have never experienced for another adult, and it seems there is no going back... .that I adore this woman forever, and that I miss her and am still unhappy to have been ejected from her life in such a cruel fashion. She told me she had no feelings for me and that I was a dick and pretty much laughed in my face... .and that was the last I heard from her, after four hears of dramatic life-changing events, vacations, and so much time together w/ openness and initimacy. I must have sent her 10 emails with a balance of anger and empathy... .and her email to me was just blunt, heartless, and soul crushing. that was the last I heard from her... .it honestly feels like it was vengeful, or about her pride.

I can not fathom that she doesn't feel for me. It seems impossible... .but her craziness could have triggered her to just paint me black completely... .though I passed her tests, and stuck with her through thick and thin. A healthy person would have felt a very strong attachment... .and I just can't stop pining for her.

Guys... .I've been rambling. Any support would be great. I'm dealing with a lot of stress in my life, and it sucks to have no one really close to me! Nobody outside this board really understands... .

Thanks for listening!

Stoic

[stoic83]

Hi all,

I haven't needed to use the boards for a while but I guess I'm still detaching from the wounds of the relationship I was in with my exwBPD. She was a severe alcoholic, in recovery over the last year of our rs.

I have dated and slept with a few women, but I guess it just made me miss my ex w/ BPD even more.

I have been in therapy once or twice a week since the breakup. I had some sort of a mental breakdown during the breakup... .she relapsed at my house and talked about her dad molesting her sister... .and maybe her, I don't know.

I went NC with her after she moved out... .in May, i reached out to her and apologized for my side of things... .we saw eachother, and all of this love and anxiety and "co-dependent" type of feelings came up. She was... .pretty cold with me, but told me she missed our friendship and I think she wanted to sleep with me.

After seeing her, I freaked out a bit and sent her text messages telling her to go in to long term therapy and get away from her AA group (which I feel was full of people w/ personality disorders... .that could maybe relate to her, but not provide the type of support and treatment she needs to recover from BPD). I really acted silly and paranoid... .and insulted a lot of the people around her.

Now that some time has passed since then... .i wanted to talk to her again... .but she has blocked me on FB and email. We  kind of switched back and forth between blocking before... .but now I feel I'm perma-blocked... .

I'm having a really tough time moving on from this relationship. I feel like she is confused as to who I am and who I was in her life and what we had together... .like she has some sort of emotional amensia.

I think it was good for both of us to have NC... .and I commend her on carrying it out. But I miss her. Despite her BPD and the misery it brought in to my life, I really miss her companionship and personality. She treated me very poorly, but now I realize it was out of ignorance and brain chemistry... .not bad intentions. I guess that doesn't make it any better, but I felt so comfortable with her in a lot of ways... .

I really have no meaningful relationships in my life, save for a few friends that are extremely busy. I work very hard on my startup company... .and i have a poor work/social balance.

The women I have met were pretty mentally unstable. One was surely ASPd, and the other had mild asperger's... .

They actually made my ex w BPD look like the most empathetic person in the world, HA!

I feel a lot healthier these days... .but in no shape to find a relationship with someone new. I have been focusing on myself and I am getting bored and miss the meaning that I derive from being in a close relationship. As I am older (30)... .it feels like women are getting bitter, and social scene is starting to get a little creepier "singles parties... .etc... .etc." I'm not in too idle chatter... .I miss that connection i felt with my ex.

Online dating is tough... .as any decent looking girl in this area is going to get hit up by 50 guys a day, and I'm not much in to competing for a woman's attention with all the other schlubs. It's humiliating. Supposedly we are an equal-gender society... .well the dating sites don't reflect that.

I used to make female friends very easily in school and stuff, but I'm such an intellectual and this is such a "watered-down/ superficial" area... .that I am having trouble making new friends or finding women to date. Especially because I am bootstrapping a company and don't have much spending money. I'm really sad these days... .and think about my ex wBPD a lot. It was a huge distraction and replaced a lot of other friendships that have now disintegrated... .

She was so bubbly, fun, and sweet... .(come to think of it, like a child). Regular career women seem over-polished, calculated, and bitter for the most part... .She had the right blend of down-to earthedness, and femininity... .I know I'm generalizing... .but I live in an area where conformity is a way of life.

I really miss my ex wBPD. I felt so good with her and my soul just aches for her... .it really makes me question whether or not this was an addictive relationship or whether I love her in a more profound way.

Not sure if I have the choice at this point, but I am sure I can get ahold of her if I send from a different email address. Unless of course I am painted black forever... .which would truly be sad, because I was very loving and supportive for the most part... .unless I was reacting to one of her terrible cycles that would leave me feeling shell-shocked, insulted, bewildered, hurt, fooled, abused... .etc.

I really am having a tough time letting go, and I even sent her an email today to see if my email was still blocked... .and it was. I don't think she wants any contact with me... .and from a rational perspective... .I should really be the one who blocked her and erased her from my life.

ME = BS/BA from top 50 school, started own business, made a good living, pretty sober and healthy, narcissistic parents w/ NO CONTACT. Very giving in relationships.

HER = Dropped out of community college, severe alcoholism, BPD w/ N traits, may have been molested by father, can't hold down job etc. Taker in relationships.

She told me we don't belong together... .and that she has no feelings for me, and that I'm a pompous ass who is judgemental and blah blah. (of course weeks before i was the love of her life, I supported her through her father's death) I just got tired of her outrageous mood swings and confusion about her feelings around me... .however, now that she is completely out of my life... .I just miss her and the comfort that I felt when things were good.

I'm having a hard time imagining loving someone else, or accepting the love from someone else. I feel like we belong together... .even though on paper it makes no sense... .as in, she seems like a real "loser". But I just care about her so much and miss having her in my life... .it really sucks and I just could use some support from anybody who understands.

What am I supposed to do about these loving feelings I have for her... .no matter how much i try and hold a grudge and let her go, I just can't do it. I seriously feel like I crossed some line and delved in to a level of selfless love that most people have never experienced for another adult, and it seems there is no going back... .that I adore this woman forever, and that I miss her and am still unhappy to have been ejected from her life in such a cruel fashion. She told me she had no feelings for me and that I was a dick and pretty much laughed in my face... .and that was the last I heard from her, after four hears of dramatic life-changing events, vacations, and so much time together w/ openness and initimacy. I must have sent her 10 emails with a balance of anger and empathy... .and her email to me was just blunt, heartless, and soul crushing. that was the last I heard from her... .it honestly feels like it was vengeful, or about her pride.

I can not fathom that she doesn't feel for me. It seems impossible... .but her craziness could have triggered her to just paint me black completely... .though I passed her tests, and stuck with her through thick and thin. A healthy person would have felt a very strong attachment... .and I just can't stop pining for her.

Guys... .I've been rambling. Any support would be great. I'm dealing with a lot of stress in my life, and it sucks to have no one really close to me! Nobody outside this board really understands... .

Thanks for listening!

Stoic

[heartandwhole]

stoic83,

I'm really sorry that you are missing your ex so much right now, that hurts.  It's understandable that you pine for the good times, because they felt so great. And that doesn't mean they were healthy.    I'm glad you reached out.  In times of stress it's so hard to stay balanced.

I think we are all capable of loving someone deeply, and putting ourselves in a situation that is not good for us.  You can love your ex, and still decide not to be in a relationship with her, because you know it's destructive to your well being.

By now, you may be her trigger, so the closer you get, the more "dangerous" you become to her.  That's why she has to push you away, and I don't see that changing unless she is in specialized therapy for some time.

Do you think that you are pining for her so much because you just want to be soothed by that feeling of adoration and idealization?  I know how wonderful it felt to me.    

Can you give the comfort that you want from her to yourself?  Instead of an occasional "drip, drip" of love and tenderness, there is a fountain in you.  Remember?  It's what you showered on her.  

[Lucky Jim]

Hi stoic, I understand that you're in a tough spot with your feelings for your ex and the fact that you shared them on this board suggests to me a healthy letting go.  I find your post interesting because so many of us (read: me) have pined for our BPD ex's even when we know rationally that the r/s is unhealthy.  It takes time to get those toxins out of one's system!  Be gentle with yourself, and maybe you can grow from this challenge.

Lucky Jim

[stoic83]

stoic83,

I'm really sorry that you are missing your ex so much right now, that hurts.  It's understandable that you pine for the good times, because they felt so great. And that doesn't mean they were healthy.    I'm glad you reached out.  In times of stress it's so hard to stay balanced.

I think we are all capable of loving someone deeply, and putting ourselves in a situation that is not good for us.  You can love your ex, and still decide not to be in a relationship with her, because you know it's destructive to your well being.

By now, you may be her trigger, so the closer you get, the more "dangerous" you become to her.  That's why she has to push you away, and I don't see that changing unless she is in specialized therapy for some time.

Do you think that you are pining for her so much because you just want to be soothed by that feeling of adoration and idealization?  I know how wonderful it felt to me.     

Can you give the comfort that you want from her to yourself?  Instead of an occasional "drip, drip" of love and tenderness, there is a fountain in you.  Remember?  It's what you showered on her.   

Thank you for the kind responses. I do think that the feeling of adoration and idealization is something i miss... .it isn't really what i think about anymore. Those behaviors seemed to curb in the middle of our relationships... .Mostly, I miss her companionship... .we laughed a lot and had long conversations together... .I never got bored talking to her, even though a lot of the conversation was about her life and her situation. It was nice to not have to worry about my problems and my situation all of the time.

She always wanted to be around me... .and in the end I feel like it had nothing to do with me, and more to do with the fact that I was available... .i don't think that is entirely true, because I can't imagine that she was able to "fake" a good time for so many years... .but i do feel like she became attached to others during our relationship, and that she painted me black while she was painting someone else white (whether it be her aa sponsor, mom, sister, or some other guy).

I honestly think it was hard for her to stay with me, because she would fall in and out of love emotionally... .but i think intellectually she knew she "should" love me consistently but just couldn't return love at an adult level.

I do think I'm a trigger for her. I think that after kicking her out of my house after her relapse and psychotic episodes (or rather, not begging her to stay) and ignoring her for several months... .she probably felt abandoned by me. I feel like she loved me underneath it all, but that her layers of self protection and dysfunction could not allow the relationship to progress to the next level... .even though that's what she always SAID she wanted.

This relationship wasn't healthy very much at all... .but there was a healthy component. It's hard when someone acts so wacky like that, it was impossible for me to keep a clear head and look at the person and not the dysfunction... .because i was vulnerable to her fits of "cruel and irrational behavior". The most hurtful for me was a lack of empathy... .Most of the time, I am very empathetic towards the suffering of others. I get hurt when people are sadistic or cruel to one another.

Also, I lost sight of who she was after the psychotic episodes, and especially dissociation... .the dissociation was terrifying... .it was like she was a completely different person and could turn on me at the drop of a hat... .

I am trying to treat myself well. I am being kinder to myself in the meantime, but there is still nothing that compares to the love of another person. It feels so validating, and I feel much more connected to other people. I am sure I have some N traits from my parents or at the very least im codependent... .but i know I am capable of a healthy relationship with the right person. I just wish that it was her... .because she's imprinted herself in my brain in such a way, that I don't see how any relationship could feel as profound... .especially when everyone is so busy, etc.

I'm trying to be patient in moving on, but I get the urge to contact her... .and it won't leave me for days. I guess it is a lot better than the amount of pain I felt from when we broke up... .felt like a death.

I am trying to have a more profound relationship with myself. It's hard to imagine ever feeling close like that with anybody else... .Rationally I know it is possible... .but logistically it doesn't even seem feasible.

I mean when people get to late twenties and thirties... .most of them are in a conformist mindset and much more goal oriented and a lot of it has to do with appearing to be successful in the eyes of others. I mean I am included in that. I am focused on my own survival, not meeting a woman to build chemistry with. Not that this is a bad thing... .but this really seems to get in the way of organic relationship building that I experienced in my younger years. And the BPD relationship was just a very bad example of a relationship.

My blueprint for relationships and forming attachments with people sucks. I made friends so easily when I was younger and formed long term friendships... .but after this BPD thing. I think I just don't think at my age it is as easy, and I feel very alone in society and my exwBPD had a very interesting and charismatic personality.

I just felt more comfortable with her... .sad to say. I think it may be because my mom was either BPD or NPD or just has very strong traits... .and split me all the time. I was always terrified of my mother, even though 90% she was very nice... .it was the 10% of anger and coldness that I just wanted to avoid at all costs. My mom was very interesting and colorful as well... .most people are a bit dull to me, and that is just unfortunate.

However, I do appreciate my appreciation for the eccentricities in others, as that is what makes them unique and so endearing to me... .

Stoic

[willbegood]

Stoic83, your bored and want to be in a meaningful relationship but want to make excuses about having to compete for a woman and your too much of an intellectual and your broke... .?

I don't want to sound harsh but at some point we need to stop feeling sorry for ourselves, step it up and get out there and meet new and interesting people.

And if your an intellectual person... And your talking to an intellectual person on a dating site. I have news for you. There's not 50 intellectuals talking to her. ;-) And there's plenty of women, wealthy and broke, who could care less about your financial status.

I do feel for you though. It's tough to get going again after these types of relationships.

[stoic83]

Stoic83, your bored and want to be in a meaningful relationship but want to make excuses about having to compete for a woman and your too much of an intellectual and your broke... .?

I don't want to sound harsh but at some point we need to stop feeling sorry for ourselves, step it up and get out there and meet new and interesting people.

And if your an intellectual person... And your talking to an intellectual person on a dating site. I have news for you. There's not 50 intellectuals talking to her. ;-) And there's plenty of women, wealthy and broke, who could care less about your financial status.

I do feel for you though. It's tough to get going again after these types of relationships.

Hey, I appreciate your intention of giving me a kick in the pants, but I never said I felt sorry for myself. You probably live in a different area than I do, so you wouldn't understand. What girl is going to go through every single message when there is 50 of them a day? If she does, she is either narcissistic or has too much time on her hands.

I'm sorry, but I don't view courting women as a sport. I'm glad you have enjoyed online dating, but I do not. Maybe I am just bitter at the quality of women I am attracting on dating sites (ASPD and Asperger's the last two).

Im sure you will say there is something wrong with my profile or approach since I obviously pushed some buttons in you. The fact is that meeting women online is unnatural and just feels wrong and like the best approach is just to hit up women and accept the ones that choose to get back to you. In real life there's chemistry. Online there isn't chemistry.

I'm sure most people disagree, but I'm not most people. Thanks for your errr... .support.

[charred]

Stoic83

I think I understand your situation, as it resembles mine. My father is a NPD ass, haven't seen him in last 14 yrs and that has been great. Thought I was unscathed growing up in my family... he was a jerk, but I had friends and seemed to do okay. Looking back... I kept people at a distance... everyone, as a kid we moved every few years and I would start over making new friends. Each time we moved I had less of them and put less pointless effort in to it. My dad is a doctor and hypercritical. Nothing was ever right to his satisfaction... he would tell me how bad I did something, then one of his friends or a girl he wanted to screw would be around, do same thing I did only not nearly as well... and he would go on and on telling them how great a job they did. (Lots of that kind of thing.)

When kids deal with trauma and bad feelings, they sometimes disconnect from them and over time it can become a habit. In school I was trying to make my dad happy (impossible I now realize)... and was in sports, lifted weights, was an exceptional student, and had a long list of accomplishments... .none of which made any difference to him or I know now... to me. However all the sports and academics did keep me in contact with lots of people a few of whom became friends ... .mostly by accident. The more dysfunctional the person the more likely they were to become a friend. (Now i know that is probably because we were similar and they ignored the boundaries and social cues that I put out that kept most people at a distance.)

I went to college, and grad school and graduated with high honors, started a chain of medical clinics... and then walked from it all after a disastrous r/s with a girl with BPD.

The pwBPD can get to you bad... because... well first of all they get past your defenses... if you keep people at arms length, they ignore the boundaries. Second... they overcome your skepticism... by mirroring/love bombing and giving what appears to be unconditional love. Being love/intimacy starved we go hog wild for it. Not consciously... but deeper down... we react to the pwBPD like the "unconditional loving parent we never had but really needed"... and we feel safe and wonderful, maybe for the first time. However the Miss Crazypants ... disordered girl we are with is not well or even showing us her real self... and acting nice/sweet/loving gives way to clinging and eventually to a hateful person (mine was meaner than a junkyard dog... OMG.) If we stay it is hellish, if they dump us it is not like a normal breakup, it is like the death of a parent. Very deep hurting.

So you probably know much of this... the thing is your comment about experiments... is a really strong sign of not being connected to people. Worst I have heard was of someone that referred to other people as "the humans"... .which clearly set them apart from the person making the comments. if you grew up around NPD people... you have good reason not to trust people, not to want to be vulnerable and to keep people at arm's length, as the people you have trusted most, hurt you the most. The pwBPD... .probably tops the list... my pwBPD hurt me more than my parents (maybe not cumulatively... but for one point in time she sure did.)

The pwBPD filled the hole you have in you that wants love and intimacy... .and the toxic r/s brought up all kinds of feelings you normally repress and avoid at all costs. So it is no wonder that after 4 yrs of having someone that you at least imagined was really close/intimately connecting with you that you would still want her.

On these boards you hear "nons" a lot... like non-disordered... .non... the one with the issues. My exBPDgf when mad insulted me with the truth once... she said I was an idiot and didn't even get that I had attachment issues,  Turns out she was right, and the solution to not being securely connected with friends/family/loved ones... .is exactly what needs to be worked on. Brene Brown accidentally ran on to this whole area and wrote a very good book ":)aring Greatly"... .on what she found in her research. Essentially everyone needs close intimate connections, when we disconnect from our feelings it helps survive the trauma, but blunts ALL the feelings and if we do it all the time we feel dead/disconnected from people. The solution is to connect and that is hard if you spent your life doing things to avoid facing your issues... .things like I did, accomplishments that didn't matter (so many hollow victories, so little joy.)

After 27 yrs my exBPDgf came back in my life, I had moved on, married, had a kid, and all the feelings were 100% back just from hearing her voice... .and the net result was I was devastated again... got a divorce, went through a new kind of hell... but refused to go back to being numb and disconnected from people and life. My toxic second go round with my pwBPD is over... and I am recovering from it, but the connecting is still key.

If you don't have a therapist... .do yourself a favor and get a good one, get help learning to be vulnerable and make real connections with people. It is narcissistic to think people won't value you except for your accomplishments, business, money... .the real you is what is attractive. We like people that are genuine and avoid those that are not... .except for if they are hot or disordered with BPD... .and that ... hate to say, I found out was a big mistake, should have avoided those, as they were not genuine.

[Jbt857]

It's tough.

I did ok at the start of leaving my marriage. I was doing positive stuff, getting out there with friends, building a life for myself.

I also work for not one, but 3 start ups. I work from home. That's pretty isolating. I miss him because I can go days without actual f2f time with other people. When you're working at that level, you can't let the mask slip, and it's hard to push through.

I was doing fine and then 6 months on, when he and I were getting closer again and I'd dared to think a reconciliation was on the cards, he dropped the bomb that he was with someone new.

That's when I found this place. The bottom pretty much dropped out of my world.

Since then, I've been going NC, and it's funny, he can't seem to go more than a week without trying to contact me, although I now limit or ignore the attempts.

Perhaps you're trying to move on too fast? I managed a few dates, but they only showed me I'm nowhere near ready for someone else in my life.

Give it time. We all heal at different rates and need to heal at different times.

I really recommend meetup.com for getting out there and doing stuff with new people and probably it's too soon to start muddying the waters with anyone else for a r/s. You need to be ok with just being you first. I know I do.

Give yourself time to heal.

[stoic83]

Stoic83

So you probably know much of this... the thing is your comment about experiments... is a really strong sign of not being connected to people.

Hi charred, I really enjoyed your response... .but i didn't get this part. I don't think I made a comment about experiments... .if you are referring of to the dating and quick hookups with other women... .definitely not my style. You are dead on about connecting to others being what we need. I have a great therapist that i see at least once a week, and I feel that any N-traits I have are being diminished. Unfortunately, I live in a really superficial area and so it probably exasperates everyone's N-traits... .plastic surgery, living beyond one's means, fake behavior is the norm.

I do have some close friends that value me for my personality and values, and that's what I value them for as well. I also have reestablished relationship w/ aunt and uncle who are both child psychologists and have told me there is something very wrong with the way my parents treated me as a child... .

I took ap classes when i was 12, played two varsity sports, was in college part time at 16, and had a job selling cars while in school... .nothing I did was good enough. I also managed to have a social life with plenty of smoking weed and drinking... .not sure how i managed.

It seems like i could never "meet" my potential... .the worst feeling for me was being torn down bit by bit by my exwBPD. She pointed out my N-traits, and insecurities after 4 years... .like she had a checklist of all of my problems in her head... .and it was the first time i heard of them. it really caught me off guard.

You know whats sad... .she told me that she never felt good enough for me no matter what she did, that i was judgemental and pompous, fake, and tried to act like someone I wasn't... .trying to impress everyone all the time.

While I don't think this is the case... .a lot of what she said was true. I am looking forward to forming new rs with others, but it's hard! Had some good hugs from my bros lately and it feels good to grow closer with my friends... .even if there is less time spent together... .

I better keep my guard up, in case she tries to come after me again. It's hard to be a savior in someone's eyes, and then have them point out all of your flaws and paint ur relationship as a fraud... .very hurtful.

Well, I'm doing so much better than after the breakup and now I feel silly for pining the way I was!

Thanks brother,

Stoic

[charred]

I am sorry... you didn't say experiments... .I was talking to myself out loud walking through what you said and ... .I said to myself ... .it sounds like you see interactions with people like experiments... .and that wasn't what you said, just a spurious thought I had.

Reason I picked experiments... vision of a guy in a white coat interacting as a 3rd person observer, not part of the "experiment"... hanging back and observing and reacting to the behavior... .kind of a hands off/controlling/disconnected/observer.  But seeing the situation that way isn't the same as you saying those words... I need to be more accurate and less full of it I guess.

[stoic83]

I am sorry... you didn't say experiments... .I was talking to myself out loud walking through what you said and ... .I said to myself ... .it sounds like you see interactions with people like experiments... .and that wasn't what you said, just a spurious thought I had.

Reason I picked experiments... vision of a guy in a white coat interacting as a 3rd person observer, not part of the "experiment"... hanging back and observing and reacting to the behavior... .kind of a hands off/controlling/disconnected/observer.  But seeing the situation that way isn't the same as you saying those words... I need to be more accurate and less full of it I guess.

Are you saying that i'm synthesizing my relationships with other people? Sometimes I wish I could look at things so objectively... .in actuality I'm really sensitive... .and find myself longing to meet people who are more sensitive. That is what attracted me to BPD... .she seemed extremely sensitive, and she was... .but only about herself. I am sensitive to myself and other people i allow close... .while it seemed like she was very sensitive about her own self-esteem... .and oddly enough, much more compassionate to people she wasn't close with.

I really over analyze other people's behaviors... .i think it has to do with trying to guess what the other person is thinking because i have had relationships with people who haven't been very straightforward with what they were thinking/feeling. I guess I have been the same way in reaction to this... .

I'm really tired of generalizing and trying to come up with formulas for people's behaviors. I really try to get to know someone quickly and if they aren't straightforward, I get anxious and frustrated. It's really easy to be friends with someone who is straightforward and authentic.

I guess I was a sucker for the hyper-openness of the ex wBPD, who opened up to me a lot very early and was straightforward about her interest in me. I guess healthier people are more reserved, and this becomes a catch-22 because they are harder to get to know... .it's hard to know whether there is the potential for intimacy, and whether or not their reservations are just a boundary, or they just aren't very "deep"?

It made her seem real and down to earth... .when it reality she just had no emotional layer of protection and needed the attention and reassurance.

I am going to have to start volunteering or doing something to put myself around caring/emotionally stable women. Looking for them in the general population is like finding a needle in a haystack!

I am literally splitting my exwBPD this weekend... .two days ago i missed her... .yesterday i couldn't stand the thought of her and literally thought I will never miss her again, and then today i was missing her again... .This is all a very long time after the breakup. It's really messed up that this rs continues to affect me in such a manner... .

I'm really struggling to look for the good in any of this. I try and look at this breakup as a normal breakup, and forget all of the psychological elements... .and it's just nonsense. I have no idea what I was thinking when I behaved the way I did. I have no idea what would make me want to go back to that.

I do know that I was very happy when things were going well with my exwBPD, but i guess it could've just been because the bad parts were so crappy it made the good parts seem that much better.

I remember the strength of the connection I felt with her... .and i guess that is what i miss. And i guess it was mostly one-sided... .it didn't feel like it at all!

Well, I don't feel much better... .I wish I could just get past this but I continue to struggle and still have not let go of hope for a happy ending with her in my subconscious... .no matter how much I try. It does make me question whether i am trying to use science to rationalize my true feelings... .and whether or not I have made the situation worse by being on these boards and reading so much about BPD and other pds... .I wonder if that just made it worse?

[stoic83]

It's tough.

I did ok at the start of leaving my marriage. I was doing positive stuff, getting out there with friends, building a life for myself.

I also work for not one, but 3 start ups. I work from home. That's pretty isolating. I miss him because I can go days without actual f2f time with other people. When you're working at that level, you can't let the mask slip, and it's hard to push through.

I was doing fine and then 6 months on, when he and I were getting closer again and I'd dared to think a reconciliation was on the cards, he dropped the bomb that he was with someone new.

That's when I found this place. The bottom pretty much dropped out of my world.

Since then, I've been going NC, and it's funny, he can't seem to go more than a week without trying to contact me, although I now limit or ignore the attempts.

Perhaps you're trying to move on too fast? I managed a few dates, but they only showed me I'm nowhere near ready for someone else in my life.

Give it time. We all heal at different rates and need to heal at different times.

I really recommend meetup.com for getting out there and doing stuff with new people and probably it's too soon to start muddying the waters with anyone else for a r/s. You need to be ok with just being you first. I know I do.

Give yourself time to heal.

Hey Jbt,

I think this is really good advice. Sad to say that online dating has only brought more unhealthy women in to my life after this relationship... .i don't think it's the vibe I'm putting out. I just think that there are a lot of unhealthy people in this area in general... .or maybe on dating sites.

My therapist and I have been talking about meetups, but i just haven't been able to push myself to do it. I look at the lists of people... .and I just can't force myself to do it. I never thought i would need to go to social meetups to mingle with people, and I think i'm shy or just wary of it.

I'm used to being a bit of a rebel, and having cool friends... .etc. Im sure that sounds immature, well I definitely have some growing up to do... .but I just have always shyed away from clubs or social gatherings like that as if to say "I'm too sociable to need to go to some club for lonely people"... .very ego-driven, close-minded thinking... .

Sigh... .I wish I wasn't so negative about things like this. This is probably what charred was referring to when he said that he cared more about hollow victories then connecting with others and that it bit him in the ass. I feel like other people are gonna be like "look at this desperate creepo" coming to the meet-up. I guess that's just transference... .has it really come to this? I thought i was a desirable and valuable guy... .now i have to go out of my way to meet people? If any of the people I were meeting were really great socially, why would they be at meetups? See how close-minded at bitter I am? Sucks!

Stoic

[momtara]

You seem sweet.  I am always a fan of closure, or at least feeling like you did your best.  you could revise an email to her over and over expressing all your feelings (and maybe eventually even send it) - as long as you can deal with the consequences (her not responding, or getting angry, or your not being sure she actually saw it!)

I am a bit worried regarding some of the statements you make about dating:  "Regular career women seem over-polished, calculated, and bitter for the most part... ."

You also talk about the fact that you're an intellectual and you live in a superficial area.  Hmmm... .a lot of judgments going on.

I know a lot of smart, intelligent women who can't meet the right guy - and while at first they may seem overpolished or bitter, they are often just having the same troubles and suspicions of the dating scene as you are.  So it takes some patience to get to know them.  They have probably met their share of BPD's and the like, too.  You have to try not to judge every woman based on the majority, because you may miss the really great one you have the chance to know.  Sure, you can't always know what will draw you to someone emotionally and physically until you meet them, but try not to paint everyone with the same brush.  30 is actually very young.  You can still date women in their 20s.  When you are 45 you will be astonished that you thought 30 was old.

You seem to be drawn to women who have some sort of emotional problem.  That's not terrible, but it may be something you need to recognize.  

Hang in there!

[SeekerofTruth]

Stoic:

I feel your pain, and share your pain.

My impression upon reading your initial openning thread:

so honest, so vulnerable.

lots of good feedback.  wow!

you can do all the foo work (which is important, but i think its kind of hit or miss) where as if you address the OBSESSIONAL part of the brain... .possilby in 12 step recovery group, you may find some transferable insights to address the addictive features of your personality, i.e. "negative" attachment/addiction and find greater space while respecting boundaries and also getting some intellectual intimacy.

i totally get what you mean about her hanging out with more pds in AA and possibly talking the talk (while still blaming you, projecting and denial) but the real transformation is highly questionable.  so i am not just recommending any 12 step group, but pershaps one that is more generalized and meditation oriented.  thats where i found my "11th step" group, in a meditation center, where we work more from a mindfulness perspective, share our thoughts about a particular shared reading.  And of course, practice meditation.

You sound bright.  Maybe tone it down a notch (tough to do, but its part of the mind searching and searching and scanning and scanning for something... .something) and simplify.

Acknowledge the obsessional features of your behavior, thoughts, and self-talk and address that front.  It's like jonesing for another hit.  yup, that high was really high with our BPD, and the crash very painful.  and the recyles just conditioned us to take it, each time losing more of our essence in the downward spiral of that crush. 

how do you let go?

Do you know about the "monkey mind"?  And how monkey traps were laid out in Asia.  From a hole in the ground, The monkey takes the bait in the palm of their hand, but then their hand can't get out of the hole because it is too big and hence because the monkey can not let go of the bait, it gets caught by the hunter.  be smarter than that.  LOL in other words do as i say not as i do, and like so many (obviously very bright) others on this post who have been burned and scorched thinking they were dealing with the "love of their life" FANTASY/DREAM/NARCOTIC

you have to believe you deserve better than that... .imo and befriend your self first and foremost in many respects with boundaries.  eventually it kinda comes down to, would i want to have a "friend" like that, who treats me like crap and takes advantage of me and is not good for me... .

[SeekerofTruth]

And then stop hurting ourselves.  as in self-sabotage.

[charred]

The most hurtful for me was a lack of empathy... .Most of the time, I am very empathetic towards the suffering of others. I get hurt when people are sadistic or cruel to one another.

Also, I lost sight of who she was after the psychotic episodes, and especially dissociation... .the dissociation was terrifying... .it was like she was a completely different person and could turn on me at the drop of a hat... .

I am trying to treat myself well. I am being kinder to myself in the meantime, but there is still nothing that compares to the love of another person. It feels so validating, and I feel much more connected to other people. I am sure I have some N traits from my parents or at the very least im codependent... .but i know I am capable of a healthy relationship with the right person. I just wish that it was her... .because she's imprinted herself in my brain in such a way, that I don't see how any relationship could feel as profound... .especially when everyone is so busy, etc.

I'm trying to be patient in moving on, but I get the urge to contact her... .and it won't leave me for days. I guess it is a lot better than the amount of pain I felt from when we broke up... .felt like a death.

My blueprint for relationships and forming attachments with people sucks. I made friends so easily when I was younger and formed long term friendships... .but after this BPD thing. I think I just don't think at my age it is as easy, and I feel very alone in society and my exwBPD had a very interesting and charismatic personality.

I just felt more comfortable with her... .sad to say. I think it may be because my mom was either BPD or NPD or just has very strong traits... .and split me all the time. I was always terrified of my mother, even though 90% she was very nice... .it was the 10% of anger and coldness that I just wanted to avoid at all costs. My mom was very interesting and colorful as well... .most people are a bit dull to me, and that is just unfortunate.

So... she is like your mother... .the breakup felt like a death, she was interesting and charismatic, and most people are dull to you.

Sounds like you were mirrored and love bombed till you were hooked, and there is a strong similarity with your mom somehow.

The part about her being like someone else and scary... .wow is that familiar. It took a long time and 6-7 recycles for me to realize that the someone else that was scary person my pwBPD was... .that angry/hateful one... .was the only real one I encountered with her. The loving/sweet one always had a strong hint of phony... in fact my mother didn't like her, said she seemed phony. Friends asked if she was "for real"... .seemed less than genuine. Later when she was going through the clinging phase... .she seemed more genuine than when she was trying to be perceived as sweet/loving... .but when she was a hater... OMG... there was no fiber of her being that was not hateful. No hint of anything but malice. I have said many times she reminded me of Jodi Arias... she showed up uninvited, was always 10x worse than I imagined she would be in anything she did. Yet somehow I was so needy I dismissed and rationalized the clearly horrible "real" person that raged at me ... .sometimes for hours. While clinging to the phony one that said things I wanted to hear.

It takes accepting reality and giving up on false hopes to be able to look at someone you idolized... without blinders. My exBPDgf... said things I thought... .and that she had no basis for saying. She commented on how good I was at my job... .which I believe to be true, but she had absolutely no basis whatsoever for making the comments... so how could they be truthful? But I wanted to be praised by my parents for how well I had done with my job, my home, my family, etc... .and that was something that never happened, and never will. What she did do was perceive every little weakness I had and exploit it. But I would not accept that she did that on purpose... until recently. Looking back over emails (I kept hundreds of them... .jeez there must have been thousands)... every little thing that could be used to twist the knife in me... .was used at some point.

Most people will seem dull until you have a deep connection with them, and you don't get that quickly with healthy people. Disordered folks seem to resonate with me and seem interesting... .it is a   not a "love spark"... .which is what I used to take it for. Before my exBPDgf that reminds me of Jodi Arias... .I dated another gal that really set off all my   detectors... she seemed to be drawn to whatever the most irrational explanation for something was. It was odd... .but the sex was great... yet I managed to keep from getting hooked on her the way I did with my pwBPD. So we broke up, she married another guy... got mad at him and put lighter fluid on him in bed and set it on fire... .he wasn't hurt (amazingly)... .but my opinion of ignoring   changed a bit. The BPD r/s was devastating in about every way I know except someone being burned/killed. This other gal was every bit as bad. Thinking back one other one I dated was pretty messed up (she was committed to a RTC for BPD I found out later).

My friends used to wonder about something... .did I draw crazy women to me, or normal ones who I drove crazy? Looking back... it was both, but the normal ones never stuck around long, and the ones with issues... .sometimes were very hard to get apart from.

You can't change them by force... and I don't think you can by persuasion either... .my pwBPD... knew what she was doing. I discounted things she said that made that clear... and accepting her at her word made it painfully clear there was no possible future for us. She has no integrity... .is not integrated at all... no problem telling me I am the world to her, all that matters... .then sleeping with a few other guys and lying to me and about me with other people.

The only person you can force to work on issues is yourself... and the hard thing to overcome is fear of being close to new people, being vulnerable enough to let others close to you when you have been hurt by your FOO and the pwBPD and others over and over. That takes hard work and probably the assistance of a T.

[Jbt857]

Hey Jbt,

I think this is really good advice. Sad to say that online dating has only brought more unhealthy women in to my life after this relationship... .i don't think it's the vibe I'm putting out. I just think that there are a lot of unhealthy people in this area in general... .or maybe on dating sites.

My therapist and I have been talking about meetups, but i just haven't been able to push myself to do it. I look at the lists of people... .and I just can't force myself to do it. I never thought i would need to go to social meetups to mingle with people, and I think i'm shy or just wary of it.

I'm used to being a bit of a rebel, and having cool friends... .etc. Im sure that sounds immature, well I definitely have some growing up to do... .but I just have always shyed away from clubs or social gatherings like that as if to say "I'm too sociable to need to go to some club for lonely people"... .very ego-driven, close-minded thinking... .

Sigh... .I wish I wasn't so negative about things like this. This is probably what charred was referring to when he said that he cared more about hollow victories then connecting with others and that it bit him in the ass. I feel like other people are gonna be like "look at this desperate creepo" coming to the meet-up. I guess that's just transference... .has it really come to this? I thought i was a desirable and valuable guy... .now i have to go out of my way to meet people? If any of the people I were meeting were really great socially, why would they be at meetups? See how close-minded at bitter I am? Sucks!

Stoic

Ah, I agree with online dating not attracting the right people. I'm sure I read something about a study concluding just that only recently.

And I do think people are in too much of a rush to get into something new. I'm a firm believer that we need to be able to live with ourselves before we can be a good partner, and that takes time.

As for the meetups... .Get over yourself already.  

I'm an introvert and if I can get over it, you can too. And don't let the photos of people on the site be your guide. I moved to a new area with my now ex, and knew nobody, no family here - nothing. I had no choice. I soon found the like-minded people and now count a female German angel investor and an award winning architect from New Zealand as my friends. Rest assured, we're not losers. far from it. We rarely go to meetup things now. You'd be surprised who you could meet, but you need to give it a chance.

Something else that you may find interesting is an iTunes U course called 'Psychology: Understanding Happiness' I'm working through it now. Fascinating, if nothing else. I suspect you may enjoy it.

Join that meetup and do something new - then if you hate it, at least you've tried it.

[charred]

Stoic... that is exactly caring about hollow victories instead of what matters to you. If you have problems with getting close to people, you have to go where you have people to get close to. Meet ups is a good one, I joined... have been to other social things, not the meet ups yet, but I am going.

It is hard to let yourself be vulnerable and meet new people and be in the moment... .worrying about it takes the same ruminating skills as getting wrapped up in the BPD issues. However... if you go, stay mindful, and keep in mind that OTHER people matter more than you... let them say everything they want to say, let them be the star and just try to figure out why they want to tell you whatever they tell you... .what is behind it.

Before you know it the event will be over and you will have met exceptions to all your preconceived ideas about what type of person goes to the events... .because normal people do and people that want to meet people.

If you want to hear how wonderful you are and unique... .chase down someone with BPD... but that didn't work well for me any of the times, and you have said the same... .try something different.

[stoic83]

Honestly,

I have had such great feedback on this post that I really feel like I have grown a lot since this breakup and entering therapy. I used to think I was just hyper sensitive and that there wasn't anything "wrong" with me. It's so much easier to just accept my faults and even look at my thoughts that are a bit "tweaked" with you guys here on this board.

It feels really good to be able to express myself and even share some of my more self-absorbed thoughts and not have anybody jump all over me. Each of you communicated something different to me, and it showed me how valuable each person's individuality is... .and that this is a perfect example of how you can't generalize. (something i need to work on)

Truth be told, I think this site attracts some pretty amazing people. People who care enough to do the research, put in the work to try to understand themselves and someone they cared about. These boards have been a brighter spot in my life over the past year... .and I think we are lucky to have experienced such meaningful communication as a result of our own relationship tragedies.

My exwBPD told me she was a "bad person"... .but  whose to say whether she was just splitting herself. I really don't know if i share the opinion that the person underneath (the angry spiteful one) was the real person. I think that's oversimplifying... .despite her family's eccentricities... .none of them seemed like "bad" people. Mental illness ran in her family, and although their behavior was "disgusting" to me... .lack of empathy, neglect, possible molestations... .these people were just "tweaked in the head" and had a very tough time coping in society (she went to AA meetings with her dad and sister).

Yes she probably cheated on me and lied to me... .but she's sick. I really should have found away to extricate myself from this relationship long before it took that kind of a hold on me... .but I didn't.

I am really excited to continue diminishing any of my traits that have drawn these girls to me, or have pushed healthier people away. To be honest with you, I am not exactly sure what a "healthy" person looks like. I can't say I've spent time around anyone where I'm like "this person just really has it together". It seems like this is very rare. Even people I have thought were "healthy and good examples" have disappointed me.

That's why it's important to accept ourselves with our flaws... .whether we have any pd traits or not. Because, I can't go back and change my childhood or my genetics. I have a very strong moral code, and I am a very caring person... .I know someone out there would be lucky to have me... .and I just wish it was her.

To see someone in that much mental anguish (which she wasn't faking) is what tortured me. I consider myself pretty empathic, and honestly I felt i had to try an help. Not because I was better equipped than any other person to do so, but because I allowed myself to get close enough to where my heart wouldn't allow any differently.

These BPD relationships really contradicts everything I thought I knew about relationships and happy endings.

JBt: I do need to get over myself ;p I think that's the N-traits my lovely mother gave me talking:)

Momtara: Thanks for that perspective on the women I am generalizing... .you are right that I can be more patient, and if I can get through some of the walls... .find a healthy and caring person underneath. I have to stop looking at my situation like "I'm the only one" clearly I am not... .a lot of great people here have been victimized, and/or made the same mistake.

Seekeroftruth: I agree completely that there was an addictive component to the relationship. If I were to completely disregard genuine feelings that took place in the relationship (on both sides) it might make me feel more resolved. But to put this relationship in the "addiction box" is too much to accept. I completely agree that these relationships are addictive... .especially to people who have a certain psychology that just seems "to fit"... .but I don't want to dehumanize my exwBPD in that manner. I would like to still think of her as a woman that I care for that is sick.

That 11th step group sounds great... .I thought about going to some MA meetings since I smoke pot sometimes and probably shouldn't, but they are far away... .I have a lot of friends who have benefited from AA, and I have been to AA and some Alanon meetings... .I don't really feel like I have found the right kind of meeting for me.

These boards have been great... .but meeting people in person would be much better!

Thank you all so much for your help, support, and gentle advice. I know that I have some flawed ways of looking at things, and everyone here was very sensitive... .even with a little gentle ribbing.

Wishing you all the best,

Stoic

[momtara]

"I thought i was a desirable and valuable guy... .now i have to go out of my way to meet people? If any of the people I were meeting were really great socially, why would they be at meetups? See how close-minded at bitter I am? Sucks!"

At least you are willing to look at your flaws!  None of these people NEED to be at meetups.  However, maybe they just want to socialize and see what's out there and what comes of it.  Don't think of it in negative terms.  When you were in college or at bars, all of those places are their own type of meetup.

[charred]

Pick the meetup based on what it is... not the expectation of meeting your next great love.

If you like bicycle riding, consider some where they do that, or dancing, or whatever you enjoy. If you are doing something you like, and are confident doing, you can have fun.

Meeting people is a nice side benefit, and meeting your next SO would be great. However the hole many of us have inside is filled by being close to people, friends, family and lovers... and making real friends and deep connections is what helps fill the hole.

When you are confident and in charge and open to people... and take an interest in them, you become attractive to many of them. Teaching a subject you are good at... .be surprised how many people see you positively. Sitting at home, coming up with reasons not to go out, doubting your worth... looking dejected... .does not bid well for developing your social life.

Find what works for you... work and school are the most common places people meet, churches and all types of clubs are good. Family and friends know people... take the pressure off and do things that you want to do and like and while you are at it see if you can meet people and make a connection. It takes a while to get enough together after a rough BPD breakup to do it, but do it anyway.

I started by getting more real with my family... .being more vulnerable, taking a real interest in what they were doing, and the results were overwhelmingly good (not any disordered family members... .just normal ones.)

The first date with someone else after a BPD r/s is tough, so was second, but I recently had about my 10th one and it was very pleasant... no thoughts of pwBPD till days later... .being present (mindful)  for new person was probably key.

Good luck... you can do it.