Addicted to therapy?

[mchaplin71]

Hello

I have been searching for months for some insight to a very complex question.

My estranged wife at present has residential custody of our 6 year old son while our older son (12) lives with me.

Since my wife's arrest for domestic violence the younger child was living with me and then I was presented with a consent order to return the younger child to her, I refused initially but she threatened extensive legal action  and my lawyer insisted I sign the order although I did it under protest.

So here we are - my 12 yr old wants nothing to do with her and she will not speak to him unless in the presence of a therapist (which he refuses to go to). The younger one has been enrolled in a special therapy group in school (without my knowledge) and has been seeing the school therapist (again without my knowledge).

It seems that my wife has a desire for both children to NEED therapy although the older is doing well in his new school and has adjusted to our new area.

The younger is not as lucky - he has exhibited her erratic nature (loud violent outbursts, extreme emotions, disconnection from his brother during visitation, lashing out toward his brother, calling his brother and myself BAD). All of this was present before the separation but became non existent for the 6 moths he lived solely with me.

My question is why does my wife so badly want both boys to need therapy or have psychological issues?

[ForeverDad]

While I don't have a specific answer why she wants therapy for the kids, here are a few factors that may apply:

• It's all about her and her neediness.



• A pattern she doesn't consciously recognize, admit or denies culpability.



• Less likely? Factitious Disorder (Munchausen's Syndrome)



• Less likely? Factitious by Proxy Disorder (Munchhausen's by Proxy Syndrome)



• In my case it was to have a venue to make continuing complaints about me.

[mchaplin71]

As least likely as it may be MBPS is starting to seem more like a possibility - As of this past week I have noticed a disturbing trend when speaking to my son - he has eaten nothing but toast for breakfast, a turkey sandwich at school for lunch and only Ramin  Noodles for dinner. The ex insists that it is all he wants to eat but when he is here he eats everything.

In the past month he seems very thin and is always tired and irritable on the phone - I am told that he insists thats what he wants to eat but in my opinion even if a child demands cookies morning to night as a parent we cant give in to those unhealthy choices made by a child.

I am not sure if giving him such poor food choices is intentional or an extension of her own disorder - she has eaten the same breakfast every day for the past 3 years and has other food fetishes that manifest from time to time - example she ate nothing but microwaved potatoes for close to a year, another example is when she would eat nothing but salad morning noon and night for 6 months.

[Waddams]

Since my wife's arrest for domestic violence the younger child was living with me and then I was presented with a consent order to return the younger child to her, I refused initially but she threatened extensive legal action  and my lawyer insisted I sign the order although I did it under protest.

Did your L give details on why you should sign the order?

[ForeverDad]

When I commented "less likely" I only meant that your prior post didn't mention anything that specifically reminded me of it.

Are you allowed to take him to his pediatrician?  You might want to take him anyway.  If there's weight loss, doctor ought to be made aware of it and doc can chat with him about his food intake patterns.  That way you can ask the doc to be sure it's documented.  While it may or may not be seen as substantive neglect - I'm no expert or professional - if combined with other things it might be.  SO monitor his weight before/after visits, document incidents and don't be hesitant to involve the professionals if you think it is appropriate.

And if you get possession of him again then don't give it up so easily next time.

She was arrested for DV - against you or someone else?  A little more background would help.  We don't need specific details - this is anonymous peer support - but a general outline would help.

[motherof1yearold]

As least likely as it may be MBPS is starting to seem more like a possibility - As of this past week I have noticed a disturbing trend when speaking to my son - he has eaten nothing but toast for breakfast, a turkey sandwich at school for lunch and only Ramin  Noodles for dinner. The ex insists that it is all he wants to eat but when he is here he eats everything.

In the past month he seems very thin and is always tired and irritable on the phone - I am told that he insists thats what he wants to eat but in my opinion even if a child demands cookies morning to night as a parent we cant give in to those unhealthy choices made by a child.

I am not sure if giving him such poor food choices is intentional or an extension of her own disorder - she has eaten the same breakfast every day for the past 3 years and has other food fetishes that manifest from time to time - example she ate nothing but microwaved potatoes for close to a year, another example is when she would eat nothing but salad morning noon and night for 6 months.

My first thought - is it a  financial issue she is having ? (not being able to purchase healthier food)

Possibly projecting her unhealthy eating habits.

Or boils right down to laziness.

Be careful though - my ex was feeding our 2 yr old in a similar way and she ended up with an iron deficiency and compromised immune system. Be sure everything is ok with the pediatrician.

Diet can play a HUGE role in irritability. We are what we eat.

[livednlearned]

Is the special therapy group in school something the school has suggested? If he is displaying that kind of behavior, it doesn't seem unusual that they would want to do some kind of intervention.

There isn't anything too weird about her being in therapy, or wanting her sons to be in therapy -- what you describe doesn't sound like an addition per se. But she may be unable to cope, and has to use "authorities" to help her do what she can't. Unfortunately, she sounds very disordered, and a few hours of therapy at school isn't going to help your son if he is returning to her home every day.

Are you planning to file for divorce? If so, have you read Splitting: Divorcing an NPD/BPD Spouse by Bill Eddy?

[Waddams]

I'd just like to second FD, and say take him to a doctor and have a checkup done.  If he's malnourished, or losing weight, that's something you have to address.  But you have to have professional 3rd party documentation that will stand up in court, and show that it's happening because of mom's negligence.

How do you communicate with your son's mom?  It's best to get things in writing if you can, or if you're in an area that allows recording, then record her (secretly!).

If you L isn't willing to make a fight, find a new L.

And if you can prove you were under duress or coercion to sign the earlier consent order, then get that out, and find a new L to have that order rescinded.

[livednlearned]

If you L isn't willing to make a fight, find a new L.

Good point from Waddams.

Can you get a free consultation (or $50-$100) with another L to find out if you were given bad advice?

Doesn't sound like your L understands BPD or high-conflict divorces.

[mchaplin71]

Thank You everyone - here are a few more details:

We were married for 15 years

She has been in therapy since age 12 (treated for, anorexia, depression, anxiety, agoraphobia, and related issues)

We went to therapy for her infidelity which she denied in therapy until I produced her emails

Early in the marriage she was blackmailed by an ex to have sex with him or he would show me a tape they made (I involved the police)

She has a history of erratic behavior that she can control from time to time.

The DV was against me, son 12 also filed 2 police reports for her attacking him (once caught on video)

I under written protest signed the consent order to avoid her filing another motion - and in good faith for her not to be seperated from our younger son - it is clearly not working so we are back in court for 2 weeks.

She has no financial issues she is the daughter of millionaires

[livednlearned]

Giving in to demands in order to avoid legal escalation doesn't work with pwBPD, unfortunately.

Are you going to use the same L going forward?

[musicfan42]

She has been in therapy since age 12 (treated for, anorexia, depression, anxiety, agoraphobia, and related issues)

I read this thread before and my first thought was "this woman has been in a lot of therapy herself" so I'm not surprised to hear this bit.

It might be possible that she wants other people to go to therapy so that she's not the only one with major issues. From what I've read, borderlines have a lot of shame. She might also be jealous of the love/time/affection that you give the kids. What were her own parents like? I know that you mentioned that her parents are millionaires but did they actually spend much time with her or did they just dump her with a nanny/boarding school etc the whole time?

[mchaplin71]

Both parents were never around - always in pursuit of something - Father was a Doctor mother was a gold digger doing the high society party thing. Both parents were married when they met (2 children each) - thy had an affair and dumped their spouses. Father was forbidden from seeing his children from previous marriage. Mother forced new husband to adopt her 2 children from her first marriage. Mothers son from first marriage committed suicide a few years back. All the children have various degrees of emotional or psychological issues. Anxiety disorder is in all of them (learned I'm convinced).

The one who committed suicide always claimed physical and sexual abuse from his parents - the other full and half siblings always denied it - I lean toward there was something going on there but the children stayed quiet to avoid being cut out of the will.

[mchaplin71]

As for my Lawyer - I am stuck with him for now as I can not afford to dump him and start again - I am toying with the Idea of doing the rest myself.

[ForeverDad]

The DV was against me, son 12 also filed 2 police reports for her attacking him (once caught on video)

I under written protest signed the consent order to avoid her filing another motion - and in good faith for her not to be separated from our younger son - it is clearly not working so we are back in court for 2 weeks.

Want to know what our greatest weaknesses are?  Our otherwise good qualities.  Particularly our sense of fairness and empathy.  Ponder: "and in good faith for her not to be separated from our younger son".  While that is nice in most situations, in this one it likely will not be truly appreciated or reciprocated long term.  Therefore, beware of defaulting to fairness or being too fair, too polite, too whatever.

What is the current schedule?  7/7?  5/2/2/5?  If 3/11 then who is limited to the alternate weekends?  Frankly, if she has majority or equal time, then she should have less time and you're son's best advocate, don't count on others to do it for you.  Also keep in mind that unless she is seen as abusive, neglectful or dangerous to your younger son, she will still see him.  Your responsibility is to keep the poor parenting to a minimum.

As happened with your 12 year old, as the children get older and seek gradually increasing but age-appropriate independence and decision making, she won't be able to handle it.

As for the lawyer pressuring you to settle or sign, the lawyer can only present lawyer's reasons and then pressure, can't make you sign.  If you don't sign, then wouldn't it be up to a judge?  Would that be good or bar or just expensive?

[catnap]

So here we are - my 12 yr old wants nothing to do with her and she will not speak to him unless in the presence of a therapist (which he refuses to go to). The younger one has been enrolled in a special therapy group in school (without my knowledge) and has been seeing the school therapist (again without my knowledge).

Do you have access to talk to the school therapist?  She may be very unaware of the true issues. 

As children age they start having their own thoughts and ideas that are separate from the parents.  PwBPD have a very hard time with the loss of the child idealization of them as they get older. 

She may have aligned younger son with herself against older son who had outgrown the parental idealization phase--my layman's guess would be that is why when you had younger son for 6 months without her most of the problems dissipated. 

[mchaplin71]

The visitation schedule is that I see my younger son every 2 weekends - my older son lives with me and will not visit the ex and she has not asked to see him. I have attempted to get them together but she will not see or speak to the older one without a therapist or lawyer present.

The younger one explained to me and his brother that he wants to live with us but "is afraid mommy will be mad at him like she is to (older son)"

The younger one is afraid and attached at the same time - over this past weekend he was left unattended with a friend and allowed to roam the town and park unsupervised - although the ex sent a text saying she was with him (later proven to be false). He also made a call to me saying he could not find mommy during the call she returned and he began screaming "get away from me" to his mother - the call was recorded and I am presenting this to my good for nothing attorney today.

[ForeverDad]

Most of us at first thought that the courts would act on the good vs bad parenting.  But it's not that simple.  It's limited by other concepts such as... .what is actionable?  If her neglect and other behaviors fly slightly below the trigger level of the agencies and court, then you have a more difficult struggle ahead.  However, given her past history where she wasn't parenting for several months, be alert to any basis to seek additional parenting again.  For many of us it's been next to impossible to protect and nourish our children 100% of the time, so we just do the most we can.  You really ought to be able to get more parenting time.  That consent order, depending on its wording, may be difficult but not impossible to overcome.  You may need new incidents of poor parenting.  Son's nutrition might be one aspect to bring to the court's attention.  Enough issues or incidents and you may get the court's action.

I think it's reasonable to seek at least 50% parenting.  A schedule such as 5/2/2/5 is more common these days, one parent gets Mon/Tue overnights, the other parent gets Wed/Thu overnights and they alternate the three day weekends.  I think that's a reasonable minimum goal for you now.  Since your child is in school now, the exchanges could be set to occur at school or daycare so that the parental contact/conflict can be minimized.  On school days the parent with the child drops him off at school and the receiving parent picks him up from school, daycare or rides the bus to that parent's home.