Got forceful sexually, am I overreacting?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Sorry I'm so back and forth on what I want to do.  After a really decent past few days, I thought we'd really talked a few things out.  I was slightly, but not delusional, optimistic, I guess.  Anyway, last night was stupid.

He was very romantic and talked about how he wanted to be intimate with me and stuff.  NOW, everytime he does this, I know it won't happen.  He will get stupid somehow and someway or just blow it off entirely.  So I knew it wouldn't happen.  He ran to the "gas station" and was gone almost an hour.  He came back... .ummm... .energetic, so he did some sort of drug, and now he wasn't ready for bed.  I get up at 530 and it's almost midnight by this time. So I go to bed.  I make sure to tell him that I wished he was ready for bed and that I miss him when I go to bed alone, this covers me so he can't say I don't care.  He says he'll be in to bed in a bit.

I wake up and hour later and he is asleep on the couch.  I don't wake him, I turn to go back to bed and the dog moving around because of me woke him and he said he'd be right there.  I said OK and went back to bed.  He came in and snuggled against me and we fell asleep.  An hour later he wakes me and starts pulling on me like he wants me to turn and face him so I do and I lay my head on his chest like he usually does.  Then, he starts forcefully pushing my head down to his below area.  I just wake out of a dead sleep and he is pushing my head down quite hard and even though sexually we are very giving to each other, the force is quite unnecessary.  I kiss him around the area because I was seeing if that was really what he wanted and why he was acting like that and he keeps the force on my head so I stop and say you are pushing on me really hard, please don't do that.  So, he says fine then and pushed me away, so I rolled over and tried to go to sleep.  I thought I was in the clear and about 20 min later I can hear him muttering about how he never does anything right and I don't appreciate the romantic things he does and how I disrespected his opening up to me and he never should have done it.  To this I respond.  I'm sorry I've made you feel that way.  It wasn't pleasant to wake up to being forcefully pushed on in a sexual way and it made me feel like trash.  I'm sorry I feel this way, but I do.  Then I went to sleep on the couch.  He came in after about an hour and started raging at me about how I treat him like trash and disrespect him and he had woken up out of a sleep, too and didn't realize he was acting like that and since he'd never done it before then I shouldn't feel bad about it and GET THIS... .finished the job and been done... .

My mouth dropped open and I just went back to bed and ignored him.  He's been hateful ever since.

Look, I'm not a prude, I like to play, but he wasn't playing and I could tell... .

Any thoughts or suggestions?

[wishfulthinking]

Sorry I'm so back and forth on what I want to do.  After a really decent past few days, I thought we'd really talked a few things out.  I was slightly, but not delusional, optimistic, I guess.  Anyway, last night was stupid.

He was very romantic and talked about how he wanted to be intimate with me and stuff.  NOW, everytime he does this, I know it won't happen.  He will get stupid somehow and someway or just blow it off entirely.  So I knew it wouldn't happen.  He ran to the "gas station" and was gone almost an hour.  He came back... .ummm... .energetic, so he did some sort of drug, and now he wasn't ready for bed.  I get up at 530 and it's almost midnight by this time. So I go to bed.  I make sure to tell him that I wished he was ready for bed and that I miss him when I go to bed alone, this covers me so he can't say I don't care.  He says he'll be in to bed in a bit.

I wake up and hour later and he is asleep on the couch.  I don't wake him, I turn to go back to bed and the dog moving around because of me woke him and he said he'd be right there.  I said OK and went back to bed.  He came in and snuggled against me and we fell asleep.  An hour later he wakes me and starts pulling on me like he wants me to turn and face him so I do and I lay my head on his chest like he usually does.  Then, he starts forcefully pushing my head down to his below area.  I just wake out of a dead sleep and he is pushing my head down quite hard and even though sexually we are very giving to each other, the force is quite unnecessary.  I kiss him around the area because I was seeing if that was really what he wanted and why he was acting like that and he keeps the force on my head so I stop and say you are pushing on me really hard, please don't do that.  So, he says fine then and pushed me away, so I rolled over and tried to go to sleep.  I thought I was in the clear and about 20 min later I can hear him muttering about how he never does anything right and I don't appreciate the romantic things he does and how I disrespected his opening up to me and he never should have done it.  To this I respond.  I'm sorry I've made you feel that way.  It wasn't pleasant to wake up to being forcefully pushed on in a sexual way and it made me feel like trash.  I'm sorry I feel this way, but I do.  Then I went to sleep on the couch.  He came in after about an hour and started raging at me about how I treat him like trash and disrespect him and he had woken up out of a sleep, too and didn't realize he was acting like that and since he'd never done it before then I shouldn't feel bad about it and GET THIS... .finished the job and been done... .

My mouth dropped open and I just went back to bed and ignored him.  He's been hateful ever since.

Look, I'm not a prude, I like to play, but he wasn't playing and I could tell... .

Any thoughts or suggestions?

[GreenMango]

I don't know what to say.  I do think its important that if you don't feel safe engaging in sex with him that you don't.  He seems to have some sort of misguided attitude and entitlement around what a wife is and how to treat them.

All that aside the drug issue isn't helping his behavior.  I wouldnt like anything about that might myself starting with the drug run, my work sleep priorities and wouldnt want to reward this behavior.  The tantrums are a real pain in the butt toobut I wouldn't get too caught up in soothing him right now for his bad behavior after the fact.  We teach people how to treat us.

Lost here's the mosaic test can you take the threat assessment?

https://www.mosaicmethod.com/

Id strongly advise you sharing this with a counselor or dv specialist.  As long as we do the same things nothing changes.  And maybe some experienced stayers can chime in because I'm not sure if its safe to validate his feelings regarding feeling disrespected for not getting oral sex on demand and  being sexually dismissed. 

[Clearmind]

lostinparadise, no its not OK if you feel its not OK. Listen to you and your reaction and please don't discount it - this is important and when in situations like this discounting can lead to more forceful behaviour.

I agree with GM, it would be good to talk to a DV specialist and talk it out.

[123Phoebe]

Aw lostinparadise... .

Until we learn to respect ourselves and believe in our own experience, it makes it nearly impossible for someone else (especially a disordered, high someone else) to respect us.  It just ain't gonna happen and expecting it to will only being us more misery.

Accepting our reality is a starting point for change... .

What are you learning to accept about your relationship? 

[wishfulthinking]

After discussion, he claims he was either asleep or half asleep and didn't realize he was doing it.  I don't trust that.  Unfortunately, he was on my heels all weekend and I couldn't call anyone to discuss it. 

123Phoebe,

I have accepted that he feels more and more deeply than the "normal" person. 

I have accepted that this will result in him feeling hurt and offended more often.  Can they never feel the joy to the same extent?

What I can't accept is the raging and borderline violence that comes with it. 

I can't accept the bruise on my leg that's been there a month this coming Thursday. 

I can't accept him screaming at me in the middle of the night. 

I can't accept how everything is my fault when honestly, most of it is his.  I'm not being prideful or selfish when I say that, either.  His own bad choices cause majority of his problems, but he has to blame others.  When he can't blame others, he creates a test for me to fail so he can blame me and then he's not wrong anymore. 

I can't accept that I will be unhappy the rest of my life when my childhood already wasn't good and I've seen that I CAN be happy... .just I'm guessing it will be without anyone else except my daughter.

[Vindi]

from reading, you said you have a bruise on your leg, this must have been from him? so he must be violent with you... .you need to set boundaries and some firm ones!

and you don't have to be unhappy the rest of your life, make some changes for yourself. You may not be able to change him, but you can change yourself.

If you can't accept the raging and borderline violence, what do you want to do to change this?

please keep posting and talking, it truly helps!

[wishfulthinking]

Vindi,

I go back and forth on what I want to do whether it's stay or leave.  For a while there things were very bad and I was ready to leave and had even contacted a lawyer and I still am gathering my legal stuff properly in case that is the decision I make.  The bruise on my leg is from him, yes.  There was one night a month ago when he put his hands on my neck and when he let go he kind of threw me and my leg hit the dresser REALLY HARD.  I was probably a softball sized bruise and is finally almost faded away, though it'll probably be the end of the week before you can't see it at all.  He says he drank too much while he took his meds too late, this is the third time this has happened and yes, he was really drunk on his meds, but I don't entirely forgive the fact he blacked out.  He has been really remorseful over that time a month ago and has definitely been on better behavior, but for how long is the question.

He freaked out when I went to leave that night.  He turned into a little boy who was scared of me leaving.  I saw the full BPD that night.  I had never seen the abandonment part before, I saw it that night.  He got a reality check on his actions that night.

[Vindi]

what is your next plan of action?

In his mind, yes, he bruised your leg (which was so wrong) but you are still with him, so he most likely thinks that you think its ok to be treated with this domestic violence.

And i don't care how much he says he may black out or drank to much, whatever, he needs to control his drinking then!

I just hope you have friends or family to call if he ever tries to hurt you again physically. You do not deserve this... .what are some things that you would like to do to change the situation? are you ready to leave him, if not, how do you want to change/set boundaries to make sure that he knows you are not going to put up with things that you don't want to? I hope that made sense.

Know you are not alone & keep posting away, there are so many kind, caring people all just wanting to get into a healthier lifestyle.

[GreenMango]

Lost that link above to the mosiacmethod is a threat assessment test.  It's a pretty good indicator of  real danger and escalation.  And it takes into account all kinds of nuances to a relarionship we sometimes miss.

The results may help you coming to a decision. 

[eyvindr]

Hi lostinparadise --

No offense, but there's so much wrong with this picture that my alarms are going off left and right. My immediate reaction, honestly, was "this guy's bad news -- leave him." Then I saw, from reading further, that you're married, which does make everything more difficult. But not impossible.

You need to think of yourself and your daughter. Regardless of what's going on with him -- whether he's BPD, or has a chemical imbalance, or if it's the substance abuse talking -- it's NEVER ok for anyone to use physical force on you for ANYTHING, aside from self-defense, and even then, within reason. That's not what I hear going on here.

I do not get the whole sexual thing, in this day and age. Honestly -- we've been immersed in "no means NO!" for how long now? When will people get it? My ex used sex to self-soothe -- and she was always happy with our sex life (until we split up, and of course now I'm disgusting and have erectile dysfunction and never lasted longer than 30 seconds... .blah, blah, blah). And I was always happy, too -- she was a terrific lover most of the time. Still, that doesn't mean there isn't a time and a place.

We had an established pattern that I'd go over to her house at least one night a week (we typically spent the entire weekend together, every weekend), to have dinner and hang out with her and her child. She could never manage to put her daughter to bed before ten, which didn't leave us with much time to ourselves (but god forbid I suggest that she implement a "normal" sleep schedule for a 1st grader! And, when the child went to bed, she was permitted to play video games and watch television... .)

Anyway, one night, as I'm getting ready to leave (we both work full-time, have to get up in the morning, and I still have a half-hour drive to get home), she straddles me on the couch and says, "i know you have to go... .i just want to sit here for a minute... .i love how you feel... ." So, I hold her this way, and she starts kind of grinding, and I kiss her on the cheek and say, "i wish I didn't have to leave" and it immediately becomes this "you don't have to" kind of thing -- and it all gets just uncomfortable, and turns into a big hairy argument, because I had to leave, to enforce my boundary, and then she harangued me on the phone with crap like, "i don't understand you. don't you find me attractive anymore? i've never had to work for it in the past -- people i've been with always wanted to have sex with me before."

Very annoying. Very uncomfortable. Very bizarre, having to explain to a middle-aged woman that, just because I'm a man, no still means no! 

That memory still pisses me off. God! Because we could have just left it having had a nice evening together, even though the time wasn't right to make love.

And that doesn't even come close to comparing to your situation, lost -- which is much worse, imo.

[Clearmind]

Lost, the best thing you can do for yourself is to be informed, make a plan and have a safe house if you need one. Please leave the house if this all happens again. We reinforce bad behaviour by not removing ourselves. Boundaries my friend! He needs to know it’s not OK.

Consider seeing a domestic violence counsellor and put together a safety plan.

[SeekerofTruth]

Lost in Paradise:

yikes... .BPD, + alcohol abuse, + dope = impaired judgment (understatement).

As ey shared; something about inappropriate timing and enforcing or staying true to your boundaries = big hairy and completely UNNESCESSARY argument... .that the memory of the bs still pizzes one off.

In reading your post, i clearly see that you are not a prude, and in fact you really are a person who cares about wanting to please him sexually.  Enough said.

But here's the thing.  What jumped out at me on the first read was BOUNDARIES.  You have to get up early for work.  It's an established pattern and an important priority.   Just the timing of it AND what preceded it (not foreplay) was DISRUPTIVE. 

And the nonesence cycle begins.  He was asleep, or half asleep and didn't realize he was doing it... .OH GREEAAAT.  I wouldn't touch that river of denial and eventual potential projection with a  10 foot pole (do as i say; not as i do).  Just not logical.  If he man a dope run to the gas station, what did he cop and what was he on?  Then he crashes on the couch... .how disrepectful... he seems like he was really in his own world.  And then looked to assert his disruptive disrespectful dominance in the middle of the night, on a work nite.  That would mess up anyone's vibe.  Boundaries.

He's been hateful ever since.  AND, he still doesn't seem to get boundaries or feel contrite.  Even if consistent, clear, and firm boundaries were articulated appears doubtful he'd get it without intervention.  And then with the personality disorder, it's even harder to see themselves as being at cause for the problem. And that is one of the most irritating things one endures.

The bruise on my leg is from him, yes.  There was one night a month ago when he put his hands on my neck and when he let go he kind of threw me and my leg hit the dresser REALLY HARD.

Well, it sounds like the senior members, felt the DV thing from the get go.

Put together a safety plan!  Begin practicing firmer and clear boundaries with no exceptions no self-doubts,... .how he responds or reacts may tip you off to the immeadiacy and degree to which you may decide to implement your safety plan.

SAFE

[wishfulthinking]

GreenMango,

He (we) scored 7 on a 1-10 scale.  Thank you for the assessment. 

Seekerof Truth,

I'm not exactly sure what he was on.  He has a pain killer problem we have worked on off and on, but sometimes I think there is more on occasion.  I just got 2 test kits in the mail and found some paraphenalia and need to test it.  I need to do it when he's not there and he ALWAYS THERE.  He has no idea I've ordered these or even have things to test. 

He's been very pleasant the past couple of days.  I guess it's the idealization phase again, but now I know what to expect and it won't last, he can feel I'm not as into it as he is, though.  I hate that for him, but I'm protecting myself.

[Suzn]

I'm not exactly sure what he was on.  He has a pain killer problem we have worked on off and on, but sometimes I think there is more on occasion.  I just got 2 test kits in the mail and found some paraphenalia and need to test it. 

Can I ask what these tests are for? I guess I'm asking what you will do if they are "positive"?

[SweetCharlotte]

I hate that for him, but I'm protecting myself.

I don't think you are protecting yourself at all. It's a grossly unacceptable and hazardous situation. You and your daughter need to get out of there.

I sensed this in a previous post of yours. You are deflecting onto issues of courtesy and respect when in reality, it has gone way beyond that.

[allibaba]

Lostinparadise,

I just want to say that I understand where you are at.  My life had started to become a bad after school special on domestic violence even to the point where I spent a couple of days in a DV shelter when my husband threatened to 'cave my head in' (the beginning of my no threats/ no verbal abuse boundaries).  Needless to say his extinction bursts were pretty scary. 

The bruises (99% of which were before I found this site) melt minor and I always felt embarrassed when people told me to 'get out' 'get out'. 

I did chose a different path (to stay) but it was a path with very clear boundaries about threats and actual physical behavior.  One thing that was really key was having a plan.  If things went wrong what was I going to do (especially considering that my son is in the house).  I also spoke to resources at the local police department to understand when and how I could call them in as part of boundary enforcement without getting my husband charged.  Come to find out they are quite keen to prevent domestic violence situations!

Wishing you the best of luck on your journey 

[casper324]

Lost, my personal observation... .

My soon to be ex BPDH was starting to get aggressive and IMHO deviant in the bedroom.  First I blamed it on the porn he is addicted to and that he thinks a healthy sex life should be like he sees on porn flicks, sorry not this girl.   I realized he was having ED issues and even tried to discuss it as adults without shame. He would even get more aggressive and deviant and suddenly it became my fault because I am fat, ugly, a prude etc.  It became a control thing with him, just like yours directing you was control.  Don't give in to this kind of control, you do not deserve it.