New - daughter with BPD behaviors (long)

[Healing4Ever]

I have posted in the r/s section, as I have successfully gotten out of r/s with a uBPDex, and I grew up with a uBPD mother.  Now - my daughter has been having mental health issues and I'm feeling so inept at being able to help her.  With my ex and my Mom - my focus was on me, and how to protect myself.  Now - I desperately want to do the right thing, and help her, and I feel so powerless and not sure what to do.

She is 17, beautiful, smart, very athletic, wise beyond her years, artistic, and can be very empathetic.  Her brothers adore her, in their own brotherly way.  In the spring, she began cutting as a way to deal with the intense pain she felt after being severely bullied by her main group of friends.  She has since made new friends, but has had several cutting episodes since - each time in response to dealing with overwhelming negative feelings, usually stemming from friends.   Once from a fight her and I had - which was not even very long because she stormed away and refused to talk.  Each time I don't find out about the cutting until she is desperately hopelessly miserable, at which point she breaks down crying and comes to me about her despair, and I may or may not find out about the cutting.  Once her misery passes, she acts as if it hasn't happened, and WILL NOT get help.  She feels totally crazy and worthless and talks about putting on a good face when she's not acting miserable, but deep inside she just feels awful.  A couple weeks ago her despair got so bad she let me take her to the ER, as I'm pretty sure she was contemplating suicide (she never admitted that to me).  They referred us to crisis counselling, which took place 5 days later, which she also went to and told her story.  They referred her back to her family doctor who prescribed antidepressants and referred her to another counsellor, who hasn't gotten back to us yet.  She hasn't started the antidepressants, and I'm a bit worried about them, in part because counselling hasn't started, she gets suicidal thoughts (there's a quick way out - a big bottle of antidepressants), AND antidepressants can make things worse if you're bipolar, which apparently some of these medical professionals have mentioned to her.  (no official diagnosis that I'm aware of).  That's the other thing - since she's 17 no one makes an effort to keep me, her mother, in the loop.  A big symptom over the past month or so is that she also has no appetite, and simply doesn't feel like eating.  Today, for the entire day, all she ate was a tea biscuit and a tea from Tim Hortons, and then headed off to her 2.5 hour rep practice refusing to eat supper because she wasn't hungry.  I don't even know what to do.  I'm so worried about her - and yet I clearly can't force her to eat.  I got anxious tonight about her not eating, encouraging her to try a few mouthfuls, asking if there is anything she feels like eating, offering to make her several different options for supper - and of course this isn't going to help.  She just shuts down and won't talk at all.  I feel like I just make things worse with her, because she doesn't want to talk when she gets upset or there is conflict.  And if she's decided she's not eating, then that's it.  Another aspect is that she has had a severe gluten intolerance over her life that causes emotional symptoms (irritability, mood swings, anger outbursts) - and she started eating gluten again at age 16.5 years, just 3-4 months before these bigger symptoms began.  She has begun eating gluten-free again, but as she starts to feel low, she stops caring and starts eating the gluten- like choosing a tea biscuit today, and then her mood spirals down quickly.

Like I said above - my focus now is how to best help her, as well as myself.  If you've made it this far - thank-you so much for reading.  Any tips on where to turn, what to do, what to focus on would be so appreciated.

H4E

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, Healing4ever 

I am so sorry for the sadness that you and your daughter are going through. One of the hardest things for a parent is to watch their child go through pain, living with self-destructive tendencies while we feel like we can do nothing to help them. We end up feeling powerless and helpless... .it's a truly heartbreaking situation... .

You say that you've been dealing with an uBPDex and uBPD mother; when you were reading and learning on the other boards, did you read the Articles, Workshops and Lessons to learn validation, S.E.T., Radical Acceptance, etc.? The same techniques you would've learned to communicate successfully with them, would be the same techniques you could use to help your daughter. If you mostly centered on Boundaries (which skills you would still use with your daughter), then please take some time and click on the links to the right-hand margin of this page.

I'm here because of my adult (36) son, who was diagnosed with BPD in March of this year after a suicidal ideation landed him in our local hospital's Psych Ward and then subsequent 21-day stay at an intensive inpatient Dual Diagnosis Center. At discharge, the Center provided this website's information. Since finding this site, I've found that once I learned how his mind works and then learned and applied the communication skills from the links here, I stopped pushing all of his buttons and it has made it easier for me to help him.

The Dual Diagnosis Program saved my son's life; once he got home the techniques I learned here helped me to guide him to the proper therapies that are giving him a better life... .If your daughter is diagnosed with mental health issues and an secondary issue (suicidal ideation, substance abuse, etc.), then she could qualify for such a program. My son had all of those behaviors, and many diagnoses besides the new one--BPD--given to him at the Program.

He is now clean and sober (from a heroin addiction) for almost 8 months (!), is not depressed or suicidal anymore, and is starting to live his life happily for the first time since he was very young. If you would like to learn more about the Program, and his other therapies, the link to his story is in my signature line at the end of this post. I know that someone can get out of the trauma of BPD, because I see it every day in my son, and this site has been instrumental in this happening for him and our family.

The tools here really do work, and your daughter really can get the help she needs if she finally decides to get help. You already know that we are all here for you... .tell us more about your daughter so we can guide you properly 

[Healing4Ever]

Thank-you Rapt Reader- you're right - I focused primarily on boundaries with my ex and my Mom - I didn't feel the same sense of responsibility for helping them heal as I do with my daughter.  However, I do intuitively use S.E.T. with my Mom, when I remember, and it always helps.  But using S.E.T wasn't a satisfying way for me to be with my ex, as I wanted more out of a r/s then just meeting his emotional needs and rarely getting mine met, so I haven't had piles of experience with it, and therefore need to read and practice more.  Anyways, back to my daughter... .

I just watched the S.E.T. video on how to stop making it worse - and I have a question: One trigger of mine occurs when she says "I haven't eaten today.  I'm not hungry. I don't feel like eating any of that stuff.  There is nothing I feel like eating." and then is not willing/interested in trying to eat something even though she's not hungry.  This gets me quite anxious inside - and I react by asking if she would like to try a few different foods that I'm wiling to make her.  When she says no to everything, in her teenage exasperated way, I get anxious and I'm certain that my tone implies angst, which she must interpret as criticism. Yesterday I went so far as to verbalize my concern - telling her it's important to eat right now even if she's not hungry, that this is serious, that I'm worried, I wondered what her plan was for eating if she wasn't going to eat now, etc. etc which resulted in me talking at her.  She just shut down and that was that.  I feel terribly - and would like to respond differently because clearly this approach doesn't work.  I guess I wonder about S.E.T. - because in this moment she wasn't upset by not eating (that I could tell anyways)- she seemed fine with it and happy to leave for her 2.5 hr practice with no food in her body for the day.  If I use S.E.T. - what do I sympathize with?  There was no conflict between us until *I* got anxious, and then she just shut down.  I can see this situation becoming co-dependent - my mood becoming dependent on whether or not she's taking care of herself, and I want to stop this instinct of mine before it gets out of hand.  Clearly I can't force her to eat - although there are times when I offer food and she will eat (when she's in a better mood?), when otherwise she would just go without food.  What is an appropriate response/attitude on my part, as her mother, regarding this food issues when she is newly struggling with depressive episodes that are "causing" a loss of appetite?

I guess a big thing is that therapy has not yet begun for her (or me!).  I've made the calls, but they haven't called back yet.  I'm thinking I need to get myself in there, and perhaps they would do some mother-daughter counselling for us. 

The other thing that I think is important, is that otherwise we have a pretty good r/s when she's not in a funk or I'm not triggered.  She asks me to go shopping together, we laugh a lot (she has a fabulous sense of humour, and I think my sense of humour is pretty good also!), we played volleyball on the same team together all summer (with her brother), we spend time together watching and playing with our cats, she sometimes asks to wear my clothes, she brings her friends over for meals, we watch tv together, etc. etc.  Everything falls apart as soon as she starts to feel bad for any reason - her response is to clamp up, and if I'm involved, my response is to get anxious and want to fix it.  And it happens so quickly (done and over in 5-10 minutes tops)- and then it's over and I feel completely powerless to take back whatever I've done in our interaction or to help her in any way, other than having just made it worse.

Thanks again if you've made it this far.  I'm so overwhelmed with concern and wanting to do whatever is best - it's hard to know where to start and I can only read so much information before feeling swamped. 

[jellibeans]

healing4ever

I am so sorry your dd is struggling so much. You seem to have educated yourself about this disorder but I would urge you to read the book Overcoming BPD by Valerie Porr. Truly a wonderful book.

Many pwBPD have eating disorders... .my dd16 does and she goes through times where she eats very little. I know it must be hard not to say anything to her but I would try not to focus on it at all. You can still offer food but I would take a step back. I think the most important thing you can do is find your dd a therapist she can talk to her about the pain she is in. My dd16 was bullied by some very good friends and sent my dd on a spiral downward turn. It has taken a year of overdosing and poor coping skills for her to recover ( which is not fully) I do think my dd uses food as a way to find control in her life. When kids feel they have no control over anything they find something they can control. Again I would not focus on it.

I would make your house safe for your dd... .lock up knives, meds anything that she can hurt herself with. If you think she is feeling suicidal take her to the ER and get her admitted for an evaluation. You need to reach out for help if you are seeing the signs.

We found our dd and new therapist which practiced DBT last Christmas and that has made a real difference to our daughter. Do not be afraid to ask for help.

[crazedncrazymom]

Welcome to the board!  I'm glad you made it here.  You've already been given some really good advice and I don't have much to add except that I really sense your sadness and worry.  I hope you stick around and become part of our community.

Also in regards to keeping her medication safe I recommend ordering a safe from Amazon.  I have 3 of them (one for meds, one upstairs for razors and one in the kitchen for knives (I only use that one if I feel she is REALLY in a bad place)

Here is the link: www.amazon.com/Neiko-61013-Anywhere-Digital-Electronic/dp/B000MENCO0/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1382544746&sr=8-12&keywords=safe

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, Healing4Ever... .

As a former anorexic myself (from ages 15-17), I think that the reasons she is not eating is because it gives her a sense of control over her life, and even control over you. When you are obsessing or getting anxious about her refusing food, it actually makes her feel better and gives her a feeling of doing something no one else can make her change; she feels powerful over this one thing in her life and no one can take that away from her! It's hard for a parent to deal with; if a parent spends time cajoling and trying to cause a certain outcome, that just makes her become more and more determined to not let you "win." Because then she feels she will "lose." Ironically, your caring, anxiety and cajoling just keeps the cycle going unintentionally. Go figure  

Using S.E.T. seems hard because you have no "bad" feelings to validate, because not eating makes her feel better! Not eating is a form of power and control to her, so your detachment from your anxiety is better for her actually. If you feel like not responding to her missing a meal, or even a whole day of eating entirely, will make you explode, here's a way to use S.E.T.:

S=Support: "I understand that nothing appeals to you to eat today, and that you have no appetite."

E=Empathy: "If I felt that way, I wouldn't be hungry either."

T=Truth: "I just wanted to let you know that I'm making one of your favorite meals for dinner (or ordering pepperoni pizza, and I know you love that), and there will be enough for you if you change your mind... ."

That's really all you can do if you want to take her relationship with you out of her need to not eat. I know it's terribly difficult to not obsess or be anxious about a self-destructive behavior we watch in our child; I've found that in a case like that, Radical Acceptance helps me to get past my need to obsess and be in control. Here's a refresher for that: Radical Acceptance for family members. It has saved me and my relationship with the BPD loved ones in my life!

You mention that you are starting to feel overwhelmed with all the reading you are doing; do watching videos make it easier? I have some links to information from the National Educational Alliance/Borderline Personality Disorder regarding eating disorders that are very illuminating and educational. The first one is audio only, so you can play it in the background while you are doing something else:

Dialectical Behavior Therapy for Difficult-to-Treat Eating Disorders

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwH4joSTPvs&feature=youtu.be

When the eating disorder is life threatening - Lucene Wisniewski, PhD

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnQBGk2X9B0&feature=youtu.be

Eating Disorders, Anorexia and Bulimia - Dr. Neil S. Kaye

www.youtube.com/watch?v=qotTSi7gY1Q

Can you let me know what you think of these? They are pretty clinical, but very interesting, and maybe they can help you detach from your daughter's eating disorder so that your own misery over it will end, and maybe take at least one of the reasons she is doing it away. Because, if she's anything like I was at her age, one of the reasons I did it was to torment my Mom while looking like a harmless, innocent waif (I found her controlling and had no other way to alleviate that until I discovered that not eating anything would do the trick!).

I hope things get better for both of you... .Please let us know how it goes  

P.S. Just wanted to add that I am not a mental health or eating disorder professional; the things I wrote about above are only my experience as a teenager who wanted to lose weight, lost it, and then continued to not eat because I found great power and happiness in causing the angst I did in my parents... .I totally felt empowered and unable to be controlled for the first time in my life, and I liked it. Your daughter may have other issues, and hopefully they will be addressed in the videos... .The tips I gave you from my experience may help in understanding one aspect of her eating disorder, but not all of them. Thanks!

[Healing4Ever]

Thank-you jellibeans and Crazedncrazymom - for your reply and your reminders to keep everything locked up.  I have all the pills hidden, but I need to pay some more attention to this important matter to ensure I've got a good system in place.  And jellibeans - I look forward to reading Overcoming BPD - I'm back at the library this week and will check and see if they have it.

Rapt Reader - your example of S.E.T. was incredibly helpful for me - not only as an example of what to say in this specific situation, which I am finding myself in fairly often, but also to see it more from her point of view.  I love the radical acceptance article as well - I definitely feel more peace when I'm not worrying about changing what is.  I'm also finding, from my earlier reading about S.E.T, that I'm making more conscious effort to be present with her tonight as we visit and she talks to me.  She's sharing so much about her day - difficulties with friends, funny pics, wanting to go shopping together, etc. etc., and I find that I have probably multi-tasked in the past while she's talking.  It's tempting to do dishes, check my phone, etc. etc. - all giving the message that I'm too busy to really pay attention.  Ugggh.  Tonight was so much better!  I intentionally sat and faced her when she was talking to me, and only opened my computer once over the evening, and then caught myself.  Boy oh boy - lots left to learn.  Good news is that she didn't seem to notice my "extra effort", and therefore I didn't turn her off.  She has picked up in the past when I've tried using techniques like empathizing etc. and then clams up. 

After reading some more about eating disorders, I don't think this is what she is experiencing right now.  I do think that the control aspect is appealing to her, and that the lack of appetite is stemming from the depression.  This makes it so much easier for me NOT to make a big deal about it, when I recognize that she needs some control in her crazy life right now.  I don't know though - I finally connected with the therapist today and we go back on Friday, so I guess we'll get more answers then.

Thanks so much everyone!  I'm feeling a bit more hopeful, and your suggestions have been so helpful.  If there are any more out there- I'll be checking back!

H4E

[mermom]

Wow, I am new here and already so grateful.

If only I could remember that SET for the eating issue. My daughter is 21, so it's tricky - she is finally eating well, gained weight but I spend way too much on her food to keep it up... .she lives alone (on my dime) and hates my house (new husband) and I can't get her to go to therapy, but have to drive her a lot since there is always drama - and now a bad fall with several surgeries and is a horrible patient, needs so much medicine, she could over dose and does threaten to want to be dead... .but she'snot welcome in my house anymore since eh screaming and throwing tantrums last time... .And I am recovering from breast cancer (I'm sure stress had to do with it). And then she can be lovely especially to others, . Just so unhappy with her life, but it's her bad choices and panics... .

Anyway, the listening tricks really sound good, for a long time I just wanted to talk about her plans - and she has none right now, can't think beyond current pain. Trying to focus on one doctor appointment at a time, getting her there, since she can't drive for another month. And she has a pitbull she inherited from her ex... .dog is surely what keeps her engaged, she loves him, but can't afford herself yet and needs to move soon... .But yes, one bite of a mcMuffin that doesn't taste good and all hell breaks loose. I do spend way to much on food and take out just pleased she is eating again after some earlier issues.

[BioAdoptMom3]

  to you!  I understand what you are going through.  Our 14 y/o also has been diagnosed with BPD traits and has the relationship issues and the symptoms of cutting and eating disorders (both anorexia and bulimia) and suicide ideation.  I understand the worry and fear you have right now!  My advice based on my own experience is to go ahead and at least give the anti-depressant a try.  What has been prescribed?  Our DD was put on Prozac, which according to her psych has been very effective when prescribed or patients with eating disorders.  My guess is your DD's script is for a low dose for now.  It is rare to have serious side effects from a low dose right off the bat.  If your DD is bi-polar, you will figure that out very quickly and can stop the meds and call the doctor.  When we started DD on the Prozac, 3 days later we were already noticing a difference for the better - not great yet of course, it takes awhile and we eventually had to add Abilify but it did help quite a bit.  Just make sure you hand it out to her and otherwise keep it locked up.  Please know that we all understand here and we are here for you!

[Healing4Ever]

A quick update and mini-rant:

She was prescribed Cipralex, 10mg per day, which she hasn't started.  We see the psychiatrist at the end of the month, to see how she's doing and discuss the best option given her symptoms. 

Mini-rant: While away at her tournament today, she texted that "all the other parents always come to every tournament".  When i texted back, saying that I was sorry I couldn't be there today and I'm looking forward to watching her play (next time), she texted "You guys never come, I've gotten used to it".  When I texted back that I'd love to sit down with her and let her know which tournaments I'll be able to come to (I work as an RN so my schedule is all over), she never replied, and is now home but "too tired" and doesn't want to talk about it.

It's frustrating, because I have probably made it to over half of her tournaments *while* in university full time last year, and her season has just started for this year, so I'm not sure where the "never" comes from.  I'm thinking she's probably more mad at her Dad - who doesn't come out to many of her tournaments (maybe 10%), and has been coaching her step-sister (who he lives with) and therefore is at every one of her tournaments.  But *I'm* getting the wrath and stonewalling, while he probably got updates today from her.  (she's been reluctant to tell me anything about the day - probably because she wishes that i had been there,  but who knows).

This is the behavior that gets me the most - her outward criticism of my "lack" of parenting, and then unwillingness to sit and actually tell me how she feels so we can work it out.  (btw - I think I'm very supportive of her as her parent - even though I couldn't be there today,  I ensured that we got lots of good food for her to take today, filled the car with gas at 1am last night when i finally got home from work, gave her my m/c and $10 for any snacks she might need today, etc. etc.  But yes - today I wasn't able to be there and that's the only feedback I got.  Arrgghh)

Thanks for reading,

H4E