Thanks to all of you

[Seashells]

It's with a heavy heart and some resolve, I've decided to focus on the undecided and leaving boards for now and focus on my own well being.

I will stop back in to post and see how you all are doing.  I will reevaluate in a little time.   I thank you all for your support from the bottom of my heart. 

WR, Phoebe, Maybeso, Connect, P&C, Scarlet, Chosen, Grey Kitty, Onmyown Thank you.  Anyone I may have missed, thank you also and   please forgive me for a faulty memory.

As some of you know, my r/s had been long distance for part of the time.  My dBPDbf was diagnosed over the summer. 

More recently I've returned to the area where he is and while I expected some discomforts to be resolved, it's been pretty much a mess in the few weeks I've been back.  We are currently not in contact for the third day now as he'd gone silent on me and then indicated it was time for us to recognize "we don't work".   I've not tried to initiate any contact since.

It didn't start off well as 3 weeks or so previous to my arrival he'd cancelled attending an event (reaction to anger) that was occurring right at my arrival.  I went anyway, and timing wise I couldn't arrange to get to his place first for a visit.  I'd told him this was going to be the case ahead of time, he made some assumptions and was hurt by it.  I understand why, but felt it was the consequences of his own actions and honestly couldn't work it out without seriously risking my own well being trying to do so.

He of course didn't understand or take it too well. 

I thought we were going to recover and we did a bit, and he tried for a bit, but it did not last.  I sensed distance and witholding from him.  I believe my return caused some discomfort with his ex; which was inevitable in my view, and was something we would need to work through.  Unfortunately he expected it to be an easy peasy dream come true and when the uncomfortable circumstances needed to be dealt with he more or less turned and projected the feelings about it onto me.  This is all in my view of course.

He started dysregulating a bit. 

I admittedly got triggered by an incident with his ex which I didn't feel was appropriate, and didn't feel I reacted well to it either.

All in all I've decided there are so many things that would need to change, it's overwhelming to me to think about all of them.   I haven't been "all in" for awhile now.  I needed to see things change upon my return and they didn't.  I was really hoping he'd commit to DBT as an ongoing therapy.  He has not.  I can't hold out any hope for change without it.

I wish he would decide to go to therapy for himself, and don't know that I feel comfortable making that a boundary for me at this point.

I'm trying to focus on myself and see some of my own co-dependent and rescuing traits.  I'm trying to make sure I feel happy within myself and can relax again. 

If history is any indicator, he will contact me again in a few days or a couple weeks (there are a couple more uncomfortable situations on the horizon and he may just avoid me until they are over).   He tends to break it off every two weeks or so as it is. He's usually over it in a day, it's a bit different now though. Especially for me.

I've just decided I have to reevaluate my own happiness in this situation.  I don't know exactly what is ahead, but my resolve to put energy into this r/s is about nil without him committing to therapy.   

I do thank you all for your support.  I may end up back here, but right now I just don't see it.   I wish you all well in your own situations.  I believe each and every one of you deserve a good outcome and positive journey through this, and I hope you get it.   

shellsSea 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[patientandclear]

Hi Seashells!   

Really good to hear from you, and to hear the self-possession in your report.

I think your handling of the event that your guy cancelled on, just as you arrived in town, is a great example of being self-determining and letting him make his own decisions.  I know it's hard to watch him draw conclusions that don't comport with your reality, from those events (i.e., him being hurt because you kept your commitment even though he bagged on his).  So glad you held your line there, because once you start trying to prove your devotion by cancelling other things that matter to you, nothing good is down that road.

The withdrawal, projection of bad feelings, and predictions of doom ("we don't work" are just ... .tough.  Super tough.  I know that so well.  Sure, you can understand them, and de-personalize, and all that, but in the end, that is still what you have.  Some connection & a lot of gaps, gaps explained in hurtful ways that you have to actively filter & put through a decoder ring.

Your approach to this has been thoughtful, kind, patient & respectful of yourself & your partner.  You're a great role model!  Whichever route you take, as long as you keep up the respect you've shown yourself & him, you'll be making good decisions.

P&C

[123Phoebe]

Hi Seashells/shellSea

Wishing you the best that life has to offer

Are you focused on self publishing?  Hope so!

Thank you for all of your support and please keep in touch

[Chosen]

  Hi Seashells,

It is bittersweet to read your post.  While we of course hope for happy endings, that don't always happen... .but it is good to see that you know what you want, and you are willing to take care of yourself.

I wish you all the best; continue to love yourself, find some time to know what you want and enjoy your own company without the drama!

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Seashells, I m so sorry to hear that it s not working out. That being said, it s good that you re looking out for yourself. I wish you well! And welcome back here if ever things change.

[connect]

Hey Seashells   

Well I will miss your face around here that's for sure!

I will write more to you as soon as I can as I have more to say on your post above - our guys are pretty similar pattern wise... .ie 2 week cycle and the whole event thing and ex stuff!

So talk to you soon honey 

[waverider]

The important thing about working things through on the Staying board is you reach a better place of clarity and understanding. That way even if RS's falter you will have a better understanding as to why. The scars and damage done are not as great and you can often still come away from it as a better person, rather than bitter and twisted endlessly throwing futile blame around and asking "why?".

Some of the most knowledgeable of  senior members have traveled the path you are walking, so you need not blame yourself for not being able to "fix' this.

Knowledge can often repair you even if it can't always repair the RS

Good luck whatever happens, the sun will still come up in the morning!

Waverider

[Seashells]

I thank all of you for the positive support and insight.  I've stopped back in to say hello and do some more reading.

As an update, he did contact me as I expected based upon past "routine" for lack of a better way to express it.  I've tried to be open and caring yet firm.  At the point where I was standing my ground and told him I'd tried all I could, he pushed for a reconciliation, which as it was handled in my view was just a repeat of the cycle.  I took some time to think and then I met with him. He was doing his very best to be kind and charming. It was almost disconcerting, I used to welcome that part... .very strange now.   

He expected me to go along with "starting over" again as I have in the past. (and why wouldn't he?).   I was unable and unwilling to just go along with it this time.

I had thought long and hard about a boundary regarding him getting into therapy for me to have any hope at things improving and for me to remain in the relationship. 

I attempted to state the boundary thoughtfully keeping the communication tools in mind. I told him I cared about him very much and warned him ahead what I had to say might seem difficult, and I was saying it out of care and concern for not only him but our relationship. I said I felt it was the only positive way for me to have hope towards both of us being happy together and having a better life.   

It did not go over well as I feared might be the case.  I stayed calm.  I refused to get pulled into an argument as he reacted. 

I told him I respected his decision and wasn't trying to be hurtful. And if he wasn't willing then I respected his decision.  However, I wouldn't be able to invest myself in it any further.  I even agreed to go myself or go with him.  I mentioned DBT could be helpful for anyone in relating better to others.

He told me BPD was in degrees (and I agreed with him).  He proceeded to tell me that he is "fixed" and he no longer loses his temper.  I am the psychotic one (I never mentioned psychotic at all) and need help.

Later he barraged me with a flurry of texts and projected everything on to me again.  And told me how much he was looking forward to meeting another woman now, how relieved he was, and knew how much I'd regret this in the future.  I was throwing away a wonderful man who loved me. And he was only trying to help me see how I ruin relationships and he was trying to help me avoid destroying relationships in the future.  Said I'm blind to what I do. (can you imagine what's going through my mind as this was being said?)

I told him he was welcome to contact me as long as he could refrain from saying mean and hurtful things.

He said my needs were a farce and continued to extol everything I was throwing away. 

I kept my cool, I asked him to stop several times, said I didn't think the conversation should continue while upset, and when he didn't stop, I just let him know I wouldn't be responding further.

And that's how it was left.  I'm faltering a little in wondering if I picked poor timing, said it wrong, etc. and wondering if I could have done or said something differently for a better response.  The only thing I feel very glad about is not losing my cool.  I didn't get drawn into the blame game or sucked into a fight.  I just said my peace, tried to do so in a caring way, and let it be without responding in a way that would escalate it and have my own emotions dysregulated.

Today I'm a little down, but okay. 

Thank you all again for the support; I'll be around trying to help others where I can and also working to keep my head straight in this as well.

I know in my heart it wasn't going to get better unless I took a stand, and I'm sorry it hurt him.  I'm not sorry for recognizing my own needs even if he is unable or unwilling to see I can't go along with more repeats.

I'm just going to let it ride now. 

[Seashells]

... .and P.S.  Phoebe I'm meeting up with a group of writers tomorrow for the first time.   

[waverider]

His reaction is totally predictable. Your time here on the Staying board has helped you see it for what it is and thus protect your self from being drawn into it in a unhealthy way.

This is the value of the Staying Board, we may not always succeed in saving a RS, but we can at least ensure we leave in a healthier condition.

[connect]

Hey Seashells  

I agree that his reaction was TOTALLY predicatable in the context of BPD. You simply stated your truth and didnt engage - you did well.

I have little doubt that he will think about things for a few days and will contact you again. I hope that he will think about the therapy. If it's any consolation I can relate an experience of mine to you. One time my bf dumped me (over the usual made up overreactive nonsense) as I left his house I told him "I seriously recommend that you see a therapist. It won't affect me as you have ended it but for your own sake you need to speak to someone" I didnt think it went in but four months later he started therapy. On some level I am sure he heard you deep down - lets see what some processing his end does.

How are you doing today?

[Seashells]

I agree with both of you regarding his reaction, although I perhaps held out some hope it would be one of the times he surprised me.

And yes, the value of the Staying board... .I'm sure I wouldn't have been able to handle it in such a way without the insights and support from this board. Nor would I be able to keep my own perspective.   

I'm feeling much stronger and more grounded today Connect, thank you for asking.  I had a bit of a dip.  I was thinking today how it's my wish for him to be well and get better through therapy.  It's my belief that it's better for him, it doesn't have to be his if he doesn't want it for himself.   

[123Phoebe]

I was thinking today how it's my wish for him to be well and get better through therapy.  It's my belief that it's better for him, it doesn't have to be his if he doesn't want it for himself.   

Way to go Seashells, you did it with love and respect and dignity, integrity, compassion, the whole nine yards.  Wow.

Yea, it's unfortunate when things don't turn out like we would hope (at the time), but bigger and better things await when we live life according to our true values

I'm so glad you're meeting with a group of writers!  That's awesome  

[connect]

Seashells - the dips are so normal - had one myself today x  I got through mine and I believe you will get through yours.

You are changing how you are with him aren't you? And that's good as the old ways just kept things going round and round (like with me too) This is the sort of thing that will shake him up and will make him think. There becomes a consequence to what he has done/said - you arent enforcing it in a bad way - you are just stating what you would like. It's reasonable and truthful. It's good.

Just spotted this that you said:

If history is any indicator, he will contact me again in a few days or a couple weeks (there are a couple more uncomfortable situations on the horizon and he may just avoid me until they are over).

Now I know all about THIS one. My bf is the master of it (and the two weeks cycle like yours) I don't know when the events are coming but my gut feeling says he may be getting stressed by them and you may get more sense out of him when they are done. That's how my guy works anyway. Perhaps when the events are over the therapy thing may become something he can think about more levelly.

Anyway - you rock 

[Grey Kitty]

You are welcome.  In case you didn't notice--I'm here on the staying board to support you, not your r/s or your bf. You know what is right for you.

I'm sorry to hear how things are going in your r/s, and at the same time I'm very glad to see the strength and understanding you have about it.

I wish you peace on your ride... .wherever it takes you.

[Seashells]

GK-  Thank you for the reminder.  It made me smile.  I probably needed to hear that today more than anything. 

I was receiving raging texts all night into the wee hours.  I tried to apply some kind of salve (or so I thought) and told him I cared about him and I wasn't trying to attack.  It's strange to think I can perceive how much he has viewed it as an attack on his being, even though I never intended nor expressed it as such.  (let's face it, it wouldn't be anything anyone would feel good about hearing).  I get that.   The next thing I sent was probably invalidating in retrospect yet it wasn't intended to be. In essence I tried to characterize it in a positive way and minimize it being taken offensively. 

The reaction was awful.   I wouldn't even repeat some of it.  And I'm having a hard time holding onto any respect for him at the moment.   Truly some of the worst ever.  I have such mixed thoughts, feelings and emotions.  I'm concerned for him.  I'm not wanting to endure anymore verbal (text) assaults.  I keep realizing he would never say this stuff in front of anyone, and it reminds me of closet (hidden) abuse, which really kind of sets me off making it more difficult not to react and to just ignore it and not respond. 

Blah!

I was so fed up with it I was trying to figure out how to put a boundary to the awful texts because I felt myself fighting off the need to respond and just general upset.

It occurred to me as well he doesn't have to regulate himself and deal with his own emotions as if I walked away from a verbal altercation while he can still send those messages.  And he is still getting the relief by venting onto me via sending me the texts just as he would if he were doing it verbally.  From what I've read here, it doesn't help them to figure out how to deal with their emotions themselves while we allow them to take it out on us.  Even if I'm not responding... .

I let it go for now.  I will need to figure out how to express a boundary on more texts like that and come up with an action I will take if it's broken;  should it start again.

I'm feeling better now, but I'm just not willing to go through that sick to my stomach feeling trying to buoy myself and fight it off.

[Seashells]

I also am fighting off concern as he had made suicidal implications in the past.  I'm hoping it doesn't come to that level next,  yet would be lying if I didn't admit to feeling some concern about this as well. 

I'm visiting with one of my siblings and can't help but remember a year ago going into the holidays one of their friends committed suicide.  We had been out with this person just days before it happened. There was no warning. 

I think I may send him (pwBPD) and email trying to express concern and support, as in I'm not giving up on him,  while still saying I won't be able to accept the abusive behavior?

Thoughts? 

[Grey Kitty]

First, you are correct that when he sends out raging txts at you after you step away from a fight, he still gets the relief... .and if you read them, you still get the damage from them. If you do take a time-out from being with him, letting him continue via txt doesn't have the proper results.

A boundary for that would involve deleting his txts without reading them, turning your phone off, or blocking txts from him with your phone plan, or something like that... .and similar with harassing phone calls.

OTOH, suicidal thoughts/threats need to be taken seriously, without allowing them to manipulate you. We've got resources for that:

If he is threatening/attempting suicide right now, dial 911 or use Emergency - Local Live Support Centers, or call a local suicide hotline.

If you are simply afraid it will be the next level of escalation/dysregulation... .these workshops should help prepare you:

Depression and Suicidal Ideation

TOOLS: Dealing with threats of Suicide and Suicide Attempts

 GK

[Seashells]

Thank you GK.

I'm going to think about the text issue and possible solutions.

I'm going to do my best not too go too far in pre-empting the other issue in my mind and thougts.

If it occurs again, I will have to deal with it.  I'm obviously hoping not. 

It was honestly one of the first boundaries I did state some time ago.

Which was if he brought up threatening his own life I was going to immediately call and make sure he got help.

[connect]

Oh Seashells - my heart goes out to you  

It's not even as if you have ended the r/s is it? All you have done is say that you are more than willing to re-enter the r/s if he goes into therapy! That's not ending it - it's a statement and something that he can do. Forgive me for not remembereing but has he had therapy before? I think you said he did in the summer and got his diagnosis? So he is rebelling against this diagnosis then?

I wish I knew what to suggest - when you have concerns about the next stage he can get to I can only imagine how that must feel.

Like GK says - the texts do mean he still gets to self sooth by venting on you. I had experience of it once before with a guy that liked me and blew hot and cold - he would send me awful texts telling me to "f*** off" etc in the early hours of the morning if i didnt drop everything for him - I found it very unsettling and in the end would delete without reading. Harder to do it if you have safety concerns for them. I hope someone here can come up with something more concrete then I can for you.

I am guessing he has never been like this before with you? New behaviour from him?