She says she gives up.

[Cipher13]

Last night she tells me she is going to give up. Not out of the blue. It was after I was walkin ginto a differetn room whil ein conversation. I never interupted the conversation but I didn't let her know I was still engaged in it so it looked like I just left the room. I apologized but insisted I was still very much apart of the conversation.  Then I made the big mistake. I said the holy grail of don't say words to BPD.  I said "So What."  I left the room I was still listening "so what" I realize it was rude to you. I am apologizing for that. I was still listening.

The so what was for the level of extreme she was taking it to. It was a relationship breaker. I said I walked in the other room "so what" I wasn't leaving you and I was still engaged int he converstion.  She won't let the "so what" go.  Now she is basing the whole relationship on "so what" that I don't care and lie and never wanted to be in it and all ther rest of her guilt and heart tugging things she does.

She was crying and then stopped to yell becasue I wasn't trying to comfort her. Nevermind I was tryignto do just that before she was crying and got my arm pushed back. Back to the "no matter what I do its not going to be right" situations.

[Waddams]

I hit a point where I just didn't have it in me to try to SET and DEARMAN anymore.  It all felt like walking on egg shells in one way or another.  I just wanted out.  I didn't want to constantly be analyzing whether I was going to set off the BPD reactions anymore.  I wanted to be with someone that I could just be me with, without having to worry about repercussions.  When I hit that point, I stopped caring what my BPD's reactions where, and stopped listening to the dysregulated reactions.  She'd dysregulate and I'd instantly withdraw and just tell her "deal with your emotions yourself, leave me out of this craziness" and leave.  I actually got kind of callous to my BPD.   

Am I sensing the same sort of thing in you?

[Cipher13]

Am I sensing the same sort of thing in you?

To a degree. There is soem true to that. I might be emotinally exhausted now.  I can still fight the good fight. But even when I am doing al I can and I know I am doing the best I can for me and the relationship I get stuff like this email or text:

"There are several things that are VERY wrong with you and your approach to this:

1. Your general approach of reacting negatively and not thinking about my feelings 2. The very fact that you that you would even consider having this be the interaction that you choose is extremely concerning 3. The fact that you don't even understand that when you do these things they are directed to me!  There is no one else but me there!

4. That what you are doing shows your disrespect towards me and that you don't love me 5. The fact that you don't recognize that you are even doing this is EXTREMELY DISTURBING 6. The fact that you even have to put forth effort into being loving to me is something I can't even fathom!

The simple fact is that you don't have love for me anymore that is certainly apparent after last evening.  You don't see what you are doing to me and you think I am over-reacting which makes me even more upset."

I still try to use logic and reason to explainmyself. It can never work. It has never worked. I struggel to contiue on with a converstion that is set up liek the one above. It tares me down untill I cave.

[Waddams]

I remember those messages.  Unless you cave to exactly what they want, they harass and badger and rant at you endlessly.  And then they change what they want and the dysregulation happens anyway.

They like to keep you in constant Catch-22's.  Keeps you unbalanced.  Best way FOR YOU to deal with it is to just maintain distance, keep your boundaries, and not play the game.  It's not best FOR HER, as it will trigger her.  You just have to be willing to ignore her reactions.  I got so I just wouldn't respond to messages like that.  I'd let her have silence.  Sometimes it would work, she'd come back later and apologize.  There was a time were I saw big improvement by making her be responsible for herself.  I believe some BPD's can figure it out, I think mine did but rejected more mature thinking at some point, and we broke up.

Just keep doing what you are.  And take time for yourself.  Do you have any activities you can go do on your own?  A men's group through my church has been awesome for me. I'm also in some outdoor clubs, and have other options for "just me" time.  It's rejuvenating.  I know she'll rage at you if you take time for yourself, but that's her tactic for isolating you.  Then she'll move to guilt when that doesn't work.  You can't give in.  She's got to learn that even when you're away, you're coming back and get secure with that if you're going to have a chance of a decent relationship in the future.

[allibaba]

Hi Cipher,

I'll keep your response short but sweet.  Validate her and move on.

I love you very much.  I understand that you are very upset by my reaction to you last night (leaving the room during a discussion) and that you felt mistreated.  Its understandable that you would feel upset by this.  I would feel hurt if I thought that you walked out on me during a conversation.  Sometimes I am not the best communicator and I will make a few mistakes.  I'll try not to walk out of the room without thinking during future discussions.

The reality is that you (Cipher) did something that was perceived as rude and inconsiderate even if you didn't mean it that way.  She's completely overreacted (surprise, surprise).  Own your small piece (if you are comfortable doing that) and move on.  :)on't get sucked into the vortex.  Let her deal with her own pain and emotions.

Waddams is right.  At some point you may just get tired of it.  That's ok.  When you get to that point -- if you decide to walk -- you will have more peace knowing that you have done all that you can to make things better (and you will be a much healthier person when and if you decide to walk away).

[allibaba]

Just keep doing what you are.  And take time for yourself.  Do you have any activities you can go do on your own?  A men's group through my church has been awesome for me. I'm also in some outdoor clubs, and have other options for "just me" time.  It's rejuvenating.  I know she'll rage at you if you take time for yourself, but that's her tactic for isolating you.  Then she'll move to guilt when that doesn't work.  You can't give in.  She's got to learn that even when you're away, you're coming back and get secure with that if you're going to have a chance of a decent relationship in the future.

He's right Cipher.  The one thing that I don't hear from you is what you are doing for yourself. 

[Bulgakov]

I hit a point where I just didn't have it in me to try to SET and DEARMAN anymore.  It all felt like walking on egg shells in one way or another.  I just wanted out.  I didn't want to constantly be analyzing whether I was going to set off the BPD reactions anymore.  I wanted to be with someone that I could just be me with, without having to worry about repercussions.  When I hit that point, I stopped caring what my BPD's reactions where, and stopped listening to the dysregulated reactions.  She'd dysregulate and I'd instantly withdraw and just tell her "deal with your emotions yourself, leave me out of this craziness" and leave.  I actually got kind of callous to my BPD.   

Am I sensing the same sort of thing in you?

This is me lately. The last time, I don't even remember what set me off. Probably one of her subtle criticisms, or hell, even my perception of a criticism as I almost have come to just expect her to tick me off. One of my issues I guess. But I can't bring myself to validate anymore. So this happens to others?

[Cipher13]

The one thing that I don't hear from you is what you are doing for yourself.  

Venting on this site. Reading a few books on BPD. Other than that nothing. I have never had that time for myself. Its never been allowed. Or better yet its never been discussed. Well I tak ethat back it has a coupel times. Its not pretty. She can not comprehend how or why I would want to ever have a second to myself. Shoudl be with her. Thats how she says she feels. I have the occasional activity/yardwork/home improvement type project. Those are my time but not things that I seek out for self fulfilment. They help but they are the only outlets I have had. I use them to the best extent I can. Also typically those are only done inthe limited amount of time we are not together. Which is maybe 1 to 2 hours from when I get home to when she gets home.

She has mentioned not going with me on the work trip next week. I doubt she will keep to that as same thing happend last time and day of the trip to leave she decided to go. Same thing will probbaly happen. Would be nice to have that distance for a few days. If she saw what I just wrote just now about having some distance apart she would flip out. I wonder where I would be if I knew about this early on in my relasionship instea of 10 to 11 years later.

[Cipher13]

Validate her and move on.

On validation it does not seem to work in the slightest. She sees right through it. The last time I attempted a responce liek you suggested her replay was "If you talk to me like I am 2 years old again I'm going to beat you" It was over a text. But still. She wants validation so desparately but does not and will not believe anything I say. She started out this moring saying " You are a liar you do have a Facebook page." When I absolutley do not. Never ever have I tried to get one, nor do I want one. I looked it up. There are other people with the same name. None live where I do. Even the pictures should tell her they are not me.

[allibaba]

Validate her and move on.

On validation it does not seem to work in the slightest. She sees right through it. The last time I attempted a responce liek you suggested her replay was "If you talk to me like I am 2 years old again I'm going to beat you" It was over a text.

Don't worry about whether it works or not.  Speak your truth and move on.  Its not yours to 'own' how she reacts to this stuff.  Your wife is VERY VERY MENTALLY ILL. 

Cipher, I think that it is important to enforce a no-threats boundary.  You do not deserve to be threatened.  Please document (take a picture) of her texts with this type of stuff in it and save them in a safe spot.

[Bulgakov]

Documentation of texts is definitely a good idea. In a recent argument I must have slipped and mentioned past texts, because she deleted all of them out of my phone recently. Maybe it is good that I cannot see them anymore, but they really did provide a summary of her disordered thinking and evidence of her threats.

[allibaba]

The one thing that I don't hear from you is what you are doing for yourself.  

Venting on this site. Reading a few books on BPD. Other than that nothing. I have never had that time for myself. Its never been allowed.

Its never been allowed?  Here is the problem.  The fact that she needed to give you permission to take care of yourself.  

So what can you do today to carve out some time for you?

[Cipher13]

I'd same my texts if I didn't have to delete them every other day because I have so many of them. Its our main source of communiication. Sad but it is. So the thing I need the most help with is the whole stoping or leaving the circle arguemnt. I read articels and posts on this. I can't seem to get away from it. even when it should be really easy when its over texts... .just stop texting right?  So easy to say and think about doing. But what about the verbal. I resist my urges to JADE. I am fully aware of how the conversation devoles and its just sucks me in. I can't and shouldn't try to win the arguement. She insistns and demands to know why I have changed. By the way I have you have even seen it on this site. She hates it and thinks its cruel and mean. How to I talk about this?

[Cipher13]

So what can you do today to carve out some time for you?

I don't know the answer to this. I can ask to go some place like and outdoor center or sporting goods store. With her at an elevated level of anger towards me it will only fuel that fire.

[allibaba]

I'd same my texts if I didn't have to delete them every other day because I have so many of them.

Take a photo of dangerous texts.

... .just stop texting right?  So easy to say and think about doing.

I feel like you are stuck here.  Understand why you feel stuck.  Is it FOG (fear, obligation, guilt)?  Really try to feel deep inside of you why you do things the way that you do.  Are you happy with it?  Cipher you are a strong man and you can change your life and become a healthier man.

But what about the verbal. I resist my urges to JADE. I am fully aware of how the conversation devoles and its just sucks me in. I can't and shouldn't try to win the arguement.

Its harder in person but you 'just disengage' when things aren't going well and you feel the vortex sucking you in.  They HATE it because you only need permission from you to escape a conversation.  You are taking your power back and that is what boundaries are about.

She insistns and demands to know why I have changed.  By the way I have you have even seen it on this site. She hates it and thinks its cruel and mean. How to I talk about this?

Oh UG.  She knows about bpdfamily.com Cipher this site is yours and this is PRIVATE.  Its none of her business.  Validate her insecurities and then MOVE ON.

So what can you do today to carve out some time for you?

I don't know the answer to this. I can ask to go some place like and outdoor center or sporting goods store. With her at an elevated level of anger towards me it will only fuel that fire.

At some point in our lives we have to ask ourselves... .what is worse... .making your BPD angry getting your own needs fulfilled OR living a life that is mostly devoid of anything personally meaningful.  You don't ASK her to go to some place like an outdoor centre - she'll say no.  You decide that you want to do it and then figure out a way to make it happen.  For example, you may say to her, I need to go to X in the next few days and I am going to spend a little time there.  I don't want to encroach on other plans.  What day is good for me to do that?  If she flips, she flips then maybe you say, I'll go Wed when you are working late.

[Cipher13]

She knows about bpdfamily.com Cipher this site is yours and this is PRIVATE.  Its none of her business.  Validate her insecurities and then MOVE ON.

No she does not know about bpdfamily.com. Its my only place to talk to anyone. She has a cow if I mentioned I spoke to a co-worker about anything even work stuff. She has no idea about BPD other than sayin I have it. I have so wanted to bring it up to her but I know that would be pointless. Nothing gained just and open can of thermal nuclear worms.

[Waddams]

She's calling it mean and rude because she sees her control slipping.  She's trying to guilt you into going back to the old Cipher.  Sometimes you have to do what you know is right and let them rage.  Leave when she does.  Don't come back until the texting stops.  It's okay to tell her "I deserve better than how you are treating me." and leave.  It's okay to ignore her following outburst.

It's even okay to find a hotel room for the night.  You can send a simple text "not coming home until your rage stops.  staying at a hotel tonight."

Let her rage, let her feel.  Her behavior won't improve until she has to take care of herself.

Remember, at it's core, she is saving "Save me from feeling all these extreme emotions!"  She's got things deep down she needs to deal with, but is afraid of doing it.  She won't unless she has no other choice.  When you give in to her demands, you are essentially enabling her to run from what she's feeling.  She won't grow up and the relationship won't grow better until you make her deal with her own issues. 

It's going to be very hard on her, and very hard on you to stick with her through it.  But like my BPDx, I'm sure she also a lot of great qualities.  These aren't evil people.  These are wounded people.  There very well might be a wonderful future with her that is worth sticking this out, but it won't happen as long as you keep giving in to her and giving her your power.

[Cipher13]

Waddams

I have tried to leave 2 different times when the raging was out of control. Both times she blocked my means of egress with her body. I woul dhave had to physucally remove her to get away. I am not about to d that when she is in that state. I have also told her one time while driving on the highway I will not speak to you until you stop yealling at me and calm down. It was crazy. She went balistic. Never seen her break down like that. For an hour I refused to acknowledge her while she screamed and screamed at me.

She does fear the lose of control. Someone on here told me once the she only has power over me becasue I give her the power. The powerful need the pasive to allow them control. If you don't give them that power they can't control you.

[allibaba]

I have tried to leave 2 different times when the raging was out of control. Both times she blocked my means of egress with her body. I woul dhave had to physucally remove her to get away. I am not about to d that when she is in that state.

Cipher,

I don't think that it will surprise you that this is considered Domestic Violence (toward you) and it is illegal. 

I have mentioned in the past that it is a good idea to stop in at the police station and speak to someone calmly about your situation at home.  Make sure that it is your local police.  The police that will actually respond if you or she ever calls 911. 

Explain that you are dealing with something difficult at home and while you are committed to your marriage you need to understand local laws as well as your rights and responsibilities in the situation.  Also let them know that you need advice here.  She is not allowed to TRAP you.  You have a right to be able to escape her when she is on a tirade.  Exercising that right may be the only way to stop this horrible cycle for you   Obviously  you don't want to call the police on her if you don't have to... .that would be absolute absolute last resort.

Believe me... .its not easy.  The first time I walked away from a major rage of my husband I ended in a Domestic violence shelter for 3 days -- it wasn't fun.

[allibaba]

I should have added that AS HARD AS IT WAS TO WALK AWAY FROM THAT FIRST RAGE... .it was the best thing that I ever did for me, for my husband, and for our family.

Someone recently said to me on this board is that "the thing that seems to define those who are able to stay in their BPD relationships is that they face their greatest fear."

Would you believe that my husband can rage at me and make the worst threats known to mankind now and my heart rate stays the same and I walk away.  Last time it happened I wasn't even nervous I knew what I had to do I told him that both he and I deserved better than how he was acting at that moment (my husband tried out for an NFL team as a tight end - he's strong and scary when he's angry - and little ole me - well I have a backbone now).  

[Cipher13]

Thank you for the pep talk. I sure needed it today.

[Inside]

Tried to post this several hours ago but the system must have been overloaded due to folks wanting to add posts to this one!  I’ve scanned them (need to get back to work) and will look closer later …though here’s my 2 cents

Experience with my uBPDgf and a lot of information seeking has led me to conclude they’re constantly playing ‘Push Pull’ games; partially to keep you off balance, partially because they can’t handle the intimacy or expectations of a healthy relationship.  Consequently, the petty arguments and pointless bickering are endless.  Mine no loner wants validation - she wants conflict, often as a ‘reason’ to back me out of her life so she can spin out of control for awhile catching up with the unhealthy activities she’s ‘missing’ while playing ‘stable’ with me.  In my view, it’s planned.

When confronting a planned escalation or argument, there’s no appeasing them.  It feels like a test of what you’ll take … and to validate their ‘concerns’ appears a sign of weakness in their eyes - thus a tactic they’ll continue to use.

If you’ve had enough, then validate – and move on.  I’d rather have her longing for my love than contemplating some BPD induced retaliation.  Then, what appears to her like ‘validation’ is actually cover for your escape.  

They’ll look for any reason to pick a fight, that’s what gives us that constant ‘walking on eggshells’ feeling …as we second guess our every thought or utterance as not to trigger them... . Problem is (or at least appears to me as) ... they want to be triggered.  No win.  I know they’re hard to love …and as I may have recently concluded (yet again ;-), they’re likely impossible to stay as close to as healthy love requires … yes, unfortunately no win, for either party…

[allibaba]

Thank you for the pep talk. I sure needed it today.

I hope that I don't come off like a cheerleader but I really believe in you.  The change since the first post I saw of yours is MASSIVE!  You have come so far.

[Surnia]

To Cipher

I just want second Waddams here: She is trying to got you back under control.

Her text is verbal abusive.

Sometimes validation is difficult when things are heated, this is my experience. And when someone has a certain amount of paranoia too.

[Waddams]

Just my humble opinion - and I didn't think this way in the past, but if the BPD is obviously being deliberately abusive in some manner of response to you holding a boundary strong towards them, I wouldn't try to validate them.  At this point in life, I just create separation and distance anyway I can. 

If I say anything at all, it's something along the lines of "I'm staying away from you as long as you continue acting like that towards me."  And let the chips fall where they may.  With my uBPDxgf, the first time I did it, she raged her worst to that time, but she eventually burned herself out and the rages stopped for a while.  She didn't get her way, her rage didn't work, and she grudgingly behaved herself for a long while afterwards.

Eventually, she got it in her head that I was being mean, abusive, and controlling by not letting her voice herself to me and was only interested in shutting her up.  She went into a rage, I left and didn't come back, stayed at a hotel.  She threatened all kinds of retribution, I still didn't come back, she tried to follow through on said retribution (but failed). 

I just got to where I didn't have it in me to try hard enough to validate someone that was actively trying to destroy me, mental illness or not.  It got too exhausting for me. 

[allibaba]

"I'm staying away from you as long as you continue acting like that towards me."  And let the chips fall where they may. 

That's where I am today.  I've told my husband that something has to change for the sake of our child and am standing back and letting the chips fall where they may.  Its a hard road regardless of the outcome.

[eyvindr]

Reading this thread really rang familiar -- and gave me some peace of mind. allibaba -- this is pretty much exactly how my r-ship ended --

The reality is that you (Cipher) did something that was perceived as rude and inconsiderate even if you didn't mean it that way.  She's completely overreacted (surprise, surprise).  Own your small piece (if you are comfortable doing that) and move on.  :)on't get sucked into the vortex.  Let her deal with her own pain and emotions.

Waddams is right.  At some point you may just get tired of it.  That's ok.  When you get to that point -- if you decide to walk -- you will have more peace knowing that you have done all that you can to make things better (and you will be a much healthier person when and if you decide to walk away).

We'd broken up (for real -- not just argued about it) for about 2 months in summer 2012, but reconciled. When we did, I made sure that I was very clear about what would and wouldn't be acceptable to me if we got back together. I know it, I remember it -- and I have written documentation of this from emails -- I was as clear as anyone could be in stating that if the dynamics of our r-ship were not significantly different than they had been in "round one," I was not optimistic about things working out, and there was no point in trying unless she agreed with me, and committed to the work -- which ALWAYS included her getting into regular counselling. Which she never did. And which I always somehow managed to let her slide on... .fancy that.

What I did become better at was in adhering to my boundaries. Rather than let her turn me into a screaming lunatic on the phone with circular pointless arguments ("if you loved me as much as you say you do we'd be married by now... .", I would try to JADE, and use SET, and then when I felt like things were going nowhere productive, I'd tell her that she had a right to her opinion, and we'd just have to agree to disagree, and if she refused to accept that, I'd tell her that I was going to get off the phone. And I would -- I'd hang up as a last resort, because how else can you stop someone from berating you on the phone when they just refuse to stop? and turning off my phone, because she'd call repeatedly for hours.

This, of course, she labeled as "abuse." Like Cipher said above -- it worked well for me, because I avoided the crazy-making discussions, the yelling fests, the being trapped in a deadly argument on the phone until 3 in the morning, the non-stop phone txt arguments -- if I sensed it starting, I'd remember my skills, try to use them, and then just detach until she calmed down. It did NOT work for her, at all. She dug in her heels and claims to have spoken with "hundreds of people," including therapists and DV hotlines, all of whom assured her that my refusal to argue with her incessantly was "abusive behavior." I was truly amazed by her stamina -- I've never met anyone who can stay furious as long as my ex can. We've been broken up now for just under 90 days -- and she's still as furious with me as she was when I stopped responding to her.

I have volumes of emails and txt messages where it's clear that *nothing* about my break up with her this last and final time should have come as a surprise -- I repeatedly insisted that she begin counseling, she repeatedly promised to and might go to one appt before stopping, and I told her on numerous occasions that if we didn't begin making progress towards resolving our issues, I would eventually leave the relationship. This, too, she rationalized to herself as "emotional abuse," arguing that I was trying to hold her accountable for all of our problems in that fantastically frustrating catch-22 way that PDIs do best.

It makes me sad. It can still make me second-guess myself -- did I try hard enough? could I have done more? what if I'd just given her more time? I still catch myself wanting to try again with her. I still love her -- her uniqueness, her charm, her quirky brain. Really, the only thing that prevents me now from running back to her is that I know I've already tried, and I know that it's only because I've had a 3-mo break from the r-ship, which has allowed me to recharge my batteries, so to speak. And I don't think anything would change. Even if it would -- we already tried that. She had 2-1/2 years to follow through on getting into therapy, and she found every reason to avoid it -- all the while pleading to me that our r-ship was the most important thing in her life, and that she'd "walk through fire for me."

What's hard for me to resist saying to her today is, "I never asked you to walk through fire for me -- just to go to counselling, and to stick with it. That's all."

Hang in there,

e.

ps -- Cipher13 -- I actually went so far as to hire a lawn service, which freed me from having to take care of my own landscaping (something I enjoy, more or less), just to be able to not "encroach" into "our" time together.

[eyvindr]

allibaba --

I have tried to leave 2 different times when the raging was out of control. Both times she blocked my means of egress with her body. I would have had to physically remove her to get away. I am not about to do that when she is in that state.

Cipher,

I don't think that it will surprise you that this is considered Domestic Violence (toward you) and it is illegal.  

I have mentioned in the past that it is a good idea to stop in at the police station and speak to someone calmly about your situation at home.  Make sure that it is your local police.  The police that will actually respond if you or she ever calls 911.

Wow. I hate to say it, but I wish I'd known this a year ago -- I had no idea. I grew up in a world where, first of all, people just didn't act like this and, secondly, when they did, you just called it for what it was and moved on.

On a few occasions, when my ex was irrational and raging at me, I asked her to leave my house, and she refused. Once, I had to push her out the door. She also tried to block me from leaving both her apt and my own house on numerous occasions when I'd try to leave to avoid a conflict. Yet, she paints me as being abusive to her.

I'll sure remember this now. But here's to hoping it will just live in my mind as a little snippet of legal trivia that I never have to use... . 

e.

[allibaba]

eyvindr,

Thanks for sharing your story. 

It sounds like you did absolutely EVERYTHING possible to make the relationship work. 

I have good, good, good news.  Since you actually took the steps you took with her... .you are more likely to break this cycle of dysfunction in your own life (not go out and find another sick one in the next relationship... .or if you do find one... .you'll recognize the red flags sooner and get less enmeshed. 

Its actually really healthy to stand up and speak your truth in a tough situation. 

For me personally, I am seeing so many positives in other aspects of my life (my relationship with my BPD mom, being able to work through issues at work better)... .I had 2 situations today ALONE!  I was talking to my uBPD mom (not diagnosed but I did a lot of work on the relationship and so did she so we have a good one now)... .any way... .she kept saying some derivation of "I told you so" about my husband of almost 10 yrs (ok so only been married for 5 but relationship for 10 yrs.  Finally I said to her, "you know.  I am under a lot of stress. and you saying you told me so - is pissing the heck of me.  So if you want to be part of this difficult time stop saying it.  She said 'you are twisting my words and not listening to me' and I said 'well I appreciate that you believe that I am misinterpreting you... .but today that is how I FEEL.  So respect that or tell me and I'll hang up the phone"  10 yrs ago I couldn't tell my mom anything... .much less stand up for my feelings. 

#2 I had someone that I respect at work get very aggressive with me this morning over something that was upsetting him.  I was able to LISTEN, VALIDATE his concerns, and ADDRESS the real issue (not just my fear of his aggression).  I am quite high up at my company and the only female member of senior management... .so to be able to hear a 60 something year old senior salesman almost yelling at me and being able to stay calm.  WOW how cool is that.  I was able to separate the fact that he was aggressive because of his own frustration (not a personal attack on me).

It was someone on these boards that told me that blocking my exit/ taking my wallet/ car keys/ disconnecting the battery on my car - all things that my husband threatened WERE IN FACT considered domestic violence.  Once my husband took my glasses (can't see without them and don't have a backup pair for a week.  I have been through the ringer.  Funny thing was that at the time I didn't realize that this was domestic abuse (I have since confirmed with police and DV shelter that this is true).

[popeye6031]

I want to insert quotes from each of you but would take up the whole page nut I can say I am really relating to what all of you are saying here.  Since I have been setting the boundaries, stepping away from the arguments, and telling my fiancee that I am no longer accepting the disfunctional behaviour I am being accused of being too tough and controlling.  We just had an argument last night where I was accused many times of all the things she does on me.  I told her that she should be looking in a mirror when she was saying these things...

I must say that things probably have gotten better though.  She is quicker to back down and the arguments are down to one or two a week.  She should be coming to live with me soon, so will see how things go then.

Well done to you Alibaba for contrilling yourself in that work situation.  Having people get angry on you, especially if you are being accused in the wrong, is a tough thing to deal with.

How was your weekend Cipher.  Are things still getting better?